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Moti Venti Translation by Waez Abu Ali

 
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aminmomin1



Joined: 06 Mar 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject: Moti Venti Translation by Waez Abu Ali Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad. Was listening to Abu Ali Waez and he had mentioned about the Moti Venti Translation. I was wondering if anyone has this translation and email me at aminmomin1@hotmail.com. Thanks
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18977

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aadam aad nirinjan - Translation A

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22727
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swamidada



Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ejee solthal maa(n)he saamee tame ramat karee, tenaa shu(n) karu(n) vakhaann
te dinanee vina(n)tee am tannee, saamee tame dharjo kaan
maher karo...................................................4

In "solthal" (cosmological state in 16 layers of light),
Lord You played and played (wonders). (Of that) how
can I adequately praise You? From that day (time),
I am petitioning (praying for union). Lord at least now listen to me!

Is sol thal really means layers of light?
Can you describe these 16 layers of light?
What wave length these layers have or what is the distance in between these layers, a millimeter or a centimeter?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5806

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a relation between Sol Kara (Sol Kala) and Sol Thar (Sol Tad)
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18977

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swamidada wrote:

Is sol thal really means layers of light?
Can you describe these 16 layers of light?
What wave length these layers have or what is the distance in between these layers, a millimeter or a centimeter?
I think the number 16 is symbolic of many layers of perhaps overlapping light with different intensities and wavelengths. It is not the exact number. Everything is in essence light (energy) as in "Allahu nuru samawati wal arch" - Allah is the light of the heavens and earth.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18977

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
Is there a relation between Sol Kara (Sol Kala) and Sol Thar (Sol Tad)
I think they convey the same meaning - a sense of power derived from the possession of Light.

Some verses from the Salokos:

Saloko Nano:

satgur kahere: paratak ugyaa ne pragattyaa
ane bheetar chaanddhrunnaa ho-e
e soll kallaa su(n) ugeeyaa
tenee rasaayann na buje koi-re.................113

The True Guide says: The everliving has risen and manifested, and inside(of the body) shines like the moon. It(the light) has grown like the splendour of sixteen mansions on the moon. Nobody understands it's alchemy.

Saloko Moto:

satgur kahere: bhrahm gnaan maa(n)he jo rahyaa
varee daanat raakhe tthaam
te to soll kallaanee jot maa(n)he jai malle
tene suje sarave kaam re........................11

The True Guide says: Whoever remains within the guidance of the Divine knowledge, and directs his/her intentions toward the abode as well, will go and meet in the splendour of the sixteen mansions on the moon. And he/she will be inspired to do all the (righteous)work.

satgur kahere: aja(n)peeyaa jaap jees ghatt vase
tees ghatt maa(n)he sahee deepak jaann
sol kallaa suje tene deel maa(n)
bhaai tene kal jug na lope jaann re.............18

The True Guide says: Whoever's being vibrates with the unpronounceable word, in truth this being embodies the Light. This person's heart feels the splendour of the light of sixteen mansions of the moon. Brother, the present (evil) era will not deceive him.

satgur kahere: dharam amaaro utam chhe
te utam sadaa sahee jaann
satpanth sol kallaa ugeeyo
jenne jaannyo amaaro bhed re....................53

The True Guide says: Our religion is exalted and know it as the most exalted and the best in truth. The Religion of the splendour and the brightness of the sixteen mansions on the moon has indeed grown, in whom who has understood our essence.

satgur kahere: dhar amaaro chhe doelo
te maa(n)he ghaa(n)ttee-u chhe apaar
ek ek ghaattee maa(n)he soll chok chhe
te been khame-aa na aave haath re..............168

The True Guide says: (the path to) our door is difficult, there are countless mountain passes on it. Each and every mountain pass has sixteen courtyards, without patience you can not overcome them.

satgur kahere: soll kallaa satgur tannee
ane baar kallaa naaraayann nee jaann
temaa(n) e chaar kallaa gatmaa(n) e vase
te kallaa narnee parmaann re..................230

The True Guide says: The splendour of sixteen mansions of the moon belong to the True Guide and that of twelve mansions belong to the Lord. Out of these, four are present in J.K. and they are of the Imaam.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5806

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 70 years ago in Mombasa, Bhachi Bai made waez in Jamatkhana on Sol Kala, sixteen nights in a row, count 3 hours per waez for explanation of each Kala, that is 48 hours of explanation. Lost knowledge.
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swamidada



Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For information:
Ritual of Thal
Thal is a form of bhakti in which devotees offer pure vegetarian food to the murtis. During thal, devotees sing devotional verses describing the different types of food being offered to God. The ashta kavis in Bhagwan Swaminarayan’s time wrote hundreds of different thals mentioning thousands of delicacies. While singing thal, devotees lovingly thank Bhagwan for providing them with the basic necessities to live, including ample nutritious food.

Thal is offered three times during the day at mandirs. Thal is performed right before or after the aarti ritual in mandirs. The greatest display of such bhakti is seen on the day of the New Year at the Annakut festival. Thousands of vegetarian items are prepared and offered as bhakti, symbolizing a form of appreciation and devotion to God.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18977

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swamidada wrote:
For information:
Ritual of Thal
I think what you are alluding to is thaal and not thal.
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swamidada



Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jal thal mull mandal haar naa ya ali hukam teraa bi tu(n)hi tu....4

The word THAL is used in the 4th part of Huqq tu paak tu badshah.

Is THAL means Earth or Universe?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5806

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Thar" is used sometimes used either as "Foundation" or as "Trunk " (of a tree)
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18977

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
"Thar" is used sometimes used either as "Foundation" or as "Trunk " (of a tree)
I think that is "thud'.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have notices this variation while travelling in Gujrat, the same words are pronounced sometimes very differently. For example one says dubiwiya when some may say budiwiya, also we say Gur, ImamShahis say Gor, they don't mean the sweet Gor that we use in cooking, they really means Gur.

I think Indian languages are so complicated that we need some language expert to enlighten us on Thar and Kalaa. I am meeting one in 3 weeks and if I remember, I will ask him.
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AJD



Joined: 23 Sep 2017
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swamidada wrote:
jal thal mull mandal haar naa ya ali hukam teraa bi tu(n)hi tu....4

The word THAL is used in the 4th part of Huqq tu paak tu badshah.

Is THAL means Earth or Universe?



Jal means water and in sharp contrast to that exits thal (as used in the ginan Haq Tu Paak Tu). Thal means solid and firm dry land (as opposite to water). It's a hindi word and has at least 8 (somehow interconnected) meanings.
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AJD



Joined: 23 Sep 2017
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The word Kalaa is a Sanskrit word which at least has 11 different meanings

1. Minute part
2. 8th part of a particle
3. Light
4. Skill
5. Excuse
6. Miracle

etc etc etc
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5806

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dictionaries will not be helpful for esoteric meanings in ginans.

An old person told me the total of Sol (16) Kalaa makes ONE so a Kalaa is 1/16

Which makes some sense in the context of what I said above about the waez of Bhachi Bai.

i want to extrapolate though it may be irrelevant.

If a kala is a division of a circle and there are 16 kalaa in one circle of 360 degree, each kalaa would be 22.5 degree a familiar number in the duration vocabulary as one Gadi is equal to 22.5 minutes. (8 pohor or 64 gadi in one day)
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5806

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more findings about Kala, the Sun has 12 Kala.

lso Kala as meaning qualities, the more a person is elevated the more Kala he has, he can get max 15 Kala but Imam has 16 Kala.

In that sense,
the first Kala is Vidhiya (Education)
second is Utakshani (learning)
then others like Eela (sound and musique), Kirty, etc...

This shows only there are several aspect to the concept of Kala...
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