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Genealogies of the Imams

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Joined: 22 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:44 am    Post subject: Genealogies of the Imams Reply with quote

I know that it is believed that Hazer Imam is descended from the Prophet, but is this verifiable outside of the realm of faith? Are there really 1500+ year old geneologies that are reliable?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you said this is a matter of faith before everything else. In matter of faith it is a personal decision on what to believe or what not to believe. The Ismaili faith is based on the Imam of the Time and the belief in the authenticity of the genealogy.

However, there are plenty of historical evidence also which are a backup but only for people of the same faith. In particular, the genealogy was analised during the time when the Ismaili Imams created the Fatimid Empire. All of the historian of that time touched at this subject, be it for or against. After the Fatimid times, when the Imams shifted to Alamut, there was a continuous process to confirm the Imam's legitimacy as the whole Ismaili faith was depending on who was the legitimate Imam.

The Asal Dua prayer, which was recited since the Alamut period (Pir Shams refers to the 3 times Dua everyday) had a complete genealogy of the Imam. The names were recited in the last chapter as they still are recited now. For example in manuscript HS0033 of our collection there is a sentence saying "Aga Shah Hassan Ali Shah na Samay ni Dua". In this Dua, the last name of the Imam recited is Aga Hassanali Shah - We also have the prayer recited after his date and the name of Aga Ali Shah is added in the genealogy as we can see in manuscript HS0167 whcih gives the Dua as recited by Pir Shabuddin Shah in the presence of Aga Ali Shah in one of the Jamat in Kutch area.

Every time a new Imam came, his name was added in the prayer so people could follow the genealogy.

This of course only applies to the person who has faith. After everything is said, there will always be people in doubt. let it be.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

History is always a subjective matter especially when it involves time period extending back 1400 years. There is always an element of personal faith and interpretation involved.

However there was an important moment in our history when the Imam had to provide proof regarding the direct descendancy from the Prophet. There was a case known as Haj Bibi Case and a great deal was at stake including the custody of the tithes offered by the community.

The 48th Imam who was the grandfather of the present Imam provided a non-conventional proof which won him the case.

This episode is described at:

Haji Bibi Case Incident.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those interested in unorthodox ways of knowing, the 48th Imam provided a group Darshan (Vision) to a group of 200 Hindu convertees to Ismailism to prove that he was the direct descendant of the nine avatars that the Hindus believe in and that he was the tenth avatar.

"The philosophy of Ten Incarnations (DAS AVTAAR) should be taken and explained in the light of Islamic principles; also the understanding of ALLAH'S NOOR, whose lineal descent is from even before creation, should be given. These principles, Pir Sadardin during the time of Shri Islam Shah has explained, they should be explained in a similar manner.
(Kalam-e Imam-e Mubin, II, p473).

The incident is given at:

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