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Mukhi Kamadia's
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Faria



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:54 am    Post subject: Mukhi Kamadia's Reply with quote

YAM Everyone
I am researching into the role of Mukhi Kamdia's. The daily ones and Majlis Mukhi Kamadia's. Their role, status, etc. Any information from Firmans, Ginans, books, would be much appreciated. icon_rolleyes.gif
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:27 am    Post subject: Ginans Reply with quote

When 500 years of bandagi is accepted in the huzoor pur Noor of MHI then that person is appointed as a Mukhi

and it is 300 years for Kamadia

This is mentioned in our ginans explicitly.
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Salimah



Joined: 06 Aug 2003
Posts: 2
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:18 am    Post subject: Ginans Reply with quote

Can you please share with us which Ginan.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20913

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:12 am    Post subject: Mukhi Kamadia Reply with quote

Traditionally, before the institutionalization of our Jamat, the Mukhi's role was a treasurer and the Kamadia was an accountant. There is mention of Mukhi's other roles in the transcript of the Haji Bibi case which is available in this website under General Reading of the Library Section. Use the search for word "Mukhi" and you will see all references to the word.

There is a Ginan which refers to the role of Mukhi. Every verse begins with Mukhi. I do not have the exact name of the Ginan. This Ginan was recited by late Count G R Ladak of Toronto and I have also heard his son recite it in Calgary. May be someone can help with the title.
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alinizar313



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Mukhi Reply with quote

Here is that ginan written by Syed Imam Shah

Mukhi te je jivne moksh jo aale, ane moksh mugat no maram batavaiy
Mukhi te je kiske gher javaiy, oonkaiy jiv ka bhala ker aavaiy
Mukhi te je servaiy bela nikalaiy, ane lakh chorasi na faira taraiy
Mukhi te je moova maanvi jivta keraiy, jinka dil hovaiy tena kaj saraiy
Mukhi te je aap amer bhaid jarne, ane agam nigam ni vaat pichhanaiy
Mukhi te je Soodh boodh versaad ki jarnaiy, ane sevaiy na ghar ni vaat parmarain
mukhi te je pir paigamber ne najraiy dekhaiy, ane janam mararn ki hel jo paikhaiy
mukhi te je men maari rehaiy, ane mukh ma maar konaiy na kahe
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20913

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Mukhi Reply with quote

alinizar313 wrote:
Here is that ginan written by Syed Imam Shah



YAM alinizar313,

I believe this is a partial Ginan. Could you quote how it begins or under what title it can be referenced. I would like to read the whole Ginan.

Thanks
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Faria



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately I am unable to understand the meaning of the ginan. Can anyone provide the title???
Also any info in RE to the bandgi? Most people i have spoken to don't know anything about this.
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Jangir



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: Selection of Mukhis and Kamadias Reply with quote

I would like to know who selects them and does the list go to HI for approval?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20913

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Selection of Mukhis and Kamadias Reply with quote

Jangir wrote:
I would like to know who selects them and does the list go to HI for approval?
My understanding is that names are selected by the councils and sent to MHI for approval.
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Jangir



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Kmaherali for your reply.

I have another question:

Does it alway have to be husband and wife, because I know of a case where the Mukhi Sahab and Mukhiyani Ma are not husband and wife. I am just wondering how come? In one case I know whereby a Mukhi Sahab passed away and the Mukhiyani Ma requested if she could continue with her term and she did and someone else filled in for Mukhi Sahab. That I can understand BUT I am just wondering if there would be a possibility whereby a wife can be disqualified?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20913

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jangir wrote:
Thank you Kmaherali for your reply.

I have another question:

Does it alway have to be husband and wife, because I know of a case where the Mukhi Sahab and Mukhiyani Ma are not husband and wife. I am just wondering how come? In one case I know whereby a Mukhi Sahab passed away and the Mukhiyani Ma requested if she could continue with her term and she did and someone else filled in for Mukhi Sahab. That I can understand BUT I am just wondering if there would be a possibility whereby a wife can be disqualified?
You are welcome. I think that kind of determination would have to be made by the councils depending on the size and the composition of the Jamat. Also in cases where the Mukhi passes away, I think the council would have to determine whether the Mukhiani could continue or not.

In short it is all upto the councils.
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unnalhaq



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:


In short it is all upto the councils.

I agree and would like to add is that where there are smaller Jamets there is sometimes only Mukhi without the counterpart Mukhiani or there have been only Mukhiani but no Mukhi. I know Columbus, OH JK is that way, only Mukhiani.
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nagib



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kmaherali"]
Jangir wrote:
Thank you Kmaherali for your reply.

I have another question:

Also in cases where the Mukhi passes away, I think the council would have to determine whether the Mukhiani could continue or not.

In short it is all upto the councils.
\


Well I have to strongly disagree here. The Imam appoints Mukhis AND Mukhianis for a certain term. If Mukhi dies, no Council can remove Mukhiani from her position. Once Mukhiani has been apointed for a term, even Council member has to obey her as she detaines spiritual authority then on behalf of the Imam not on behalf of the Council or the Jamat.

Spiritual authority has preseance over administative authority. Hazar Imam has made clear in his interview with LBC that Council is only a civil body.

Nagib
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20913

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagib wrote:


Well I have to strongly disagree here. The Imam appoints Mukhis AND Mukhianis for a certain term. If Mukhi dies, no Council can remove Mukhiani from her position. Once Mukhiani has been apointed for a term, even Council member has to obey her as she detaines spiritual authority then on behalf of the Imam not on behalf of the Council or the Jamat.

Spiritual authority has preseance over administative authority. Hazar Imam has made clear in his interview with LBC that Council is only a civil body.

Nagib
You are right. I overlooked the aspect of appointment. Once the order is given as per "Amar te aayo more shahji jo" it has to be fulfilled unless the affected Mukhiani feels that she cannnot continue.

It also brings to light the issue as to whether the Mukhi/Mukhiani are appointed as a couple or as individuals. Clearly it is the later.

But before appointments are made, the council determines the various needs and makes appropriate recommendation to MHI.
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_thaillestlunatic_



Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 179

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YAM,

I had a ques, do all majalis mukhi/kamadia's names get appointed by MHI also?
Also, about Student's mijalis, can you do anything you want for the mijalis like pir ji mani and juro's etc etc and you are playing the role of Mukhi ie students mukhi usually gives the amar for dua does this mean you are playing the role of a jamati mukhi?. The ginan about the role of Mukhi's

Mukhi te je jivne moksh jo aale, ane moksh mugat no maram batavaiy
Mukhi te je kiske gher javaiy, oonkaiy jiv ka bhala ker aavaiy
Mukhi te je servaiy bela nikalaiy, ane lakh chorasi na faira taraiy
Mukhi te je moova maanvi jivta keraiy, jinka dil hovaiy tena kaj saraiy
Mukhi te je aap amer bhaid jarne, ane agam nigam ni vaat pichhanaiy
Mukhi te je Soodh boodh versaad ki jarnaiy, ane sevaiy na ghar ni vaat parmarain
mukhi te je pir paigamber ne najraiy dekhaiy, ane janam mararn ki hel jo paikhaiy
mukhi te je men maari rehaiy, ane mukh ma maar konaiy na kahe

Can anyone translate this in english?

Thanks
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unnalhaq



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_thaillestlunatic_ wrote:
YAM,

I had a ques, do all majalis mukhi/kamadia's names get appointed by MHI also?

Nope. The present mukhi of the majlis picks 3 names (of couples) to be the mukhi for that majlis and so does the kamadia 3 for his replacement and then the names are discussed with the present Jameti mukhi, ITREB chair person and then the final selection is made.

There is an exception to

EDITED BY ADMIN: NO REFERENCE TO ANY PRIVATE MIJLAS ON THIS BOARD - That is a general rule.

Admin
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Murid101



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

can some o­ne elaborate o­n the role of Mukhiyani ma, when there is Mukhi saheb also present, I know the value of Mukhi saheba, but just wanted to know the authority of mukhiyani maa, there are lots of people with different view o­n it, like she has no role, but I think thats not right, what are your thaughts o­n it [/img]
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wonderlakhani



Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Murid101"]can some o­ne elaborate o­n the role of Mukhiyani ma, when there is Mukhi saheb also present, I know the value of Mukhi saheba, but just wanted to know the authority of mukhiyani maa, there are lots of people with different view o­n it, like she has no role, but I think thats not right, what are your thaughts o­n it [/img][/quote]
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znanwalla



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In so far as I believe, the authority and position of Mukhianisaheba is the same as that of the Mukhisaheb !...each of the "shepherd is responsible for their own flock" and both of them collectively are responsible for looking after and taking care of their own "Jamat"....

Islam is a religion of equality and declares all humankind as equal; rich and the poor ; worker and the employer; the ruler and the ruled.

Islam does not regard women as inferior to man in any way. Islam makes a woman an "equal partner" in the business of life as a man and a woman are the TWO wheels of the same carriage and Allah says...

"O ! people be careful of your duty to your Lord WHO created you from a single clot and created its mate of the same kind and spread from these many men and women..."...

Thus man and a woman comes from the same root and are branches of the same tree....

Allah says.." they are a cover for you and you are a cover for them"....the Imams never contradict the quran as they are the guardians of the Quran of Allah as revealed to the prophet SAW....

A woman has as much respect and dignity as a man and infact the quran condemns those who think a woman is a dishonourable creature....the quran is clear that Allah does not like that women should be regarded as disgraceful or with disrespect as if they were inferior in any way

The quran further removes all doubts or misunderstandings of people and says...

" they (women) have rights similar against men, in a just manner" and the Prophet SAW took all practical steps to make these teachings effective....

The Jk is the house of the prophet and his beloved family and the womenfolk in the jamat sometimes do have issues which are also personal, marital, economical, medical etc etc and they can easily relate to a leader who is a woman ....

Islam is a way of life....the role of mukhianisaheba is rather very crucial for the womenfolk and for me their presence may also symbolize the authority of Bibi Fatima as Zahara or Bibi Khadija in the house of the Prophet SAW...and this is over and above them also representing the Imam e Zamana during his physical absence...

"And one of HIS signs is that HE created mates for you from yourself that ye may find peace of mind in them and HE put between you love and compassion.."

Now let me ask you all....how did Allah create mankind from just a "single" clot of blood ? This needs to be explained ! any idea?

The analysis of embryology in the Quran is fantastic - no doubt ! but kindly explain how Allah was able to create everyone from a single clot because the clot in every womb of a mother is specific and individual but the clot Allah talks about is "Universal" in nature....
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pardesi



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked a similar question to someone who knew some time back. This is the answer I got.

The appointment and its announcement is only that of Mukhi and Kamadia. The position of Mukhiani and Kamadiani are symbolic and a privilege accorded to the spouses of Mukhi and Kamadia respectively and not actual appointments. Mukhi/Kamadia represent the Imam since they sit on Imam's seat in the JK and by their authority others sit behind the paat on both sides. When they say Khanawadan, it is as if the Imam said it himself since he has given the authority to the Mukhi/Kamadia.

Since we have ladies come to JK in large numbers also and possibly to limit the interaction with the opposite gender inside the prayer hall they are provided with the facility of doing their religious services in their section and thus Mukhiani and Kamadiani are given the privilege of sitting behind the paat representing the authority of Imam vested in Mukhi/Kamadia.

In recent times, specially in the West, ladies are appointed as "Mukhi saheba" as the head of the Jamat in small communities with a male Kamadia to assist her. Sometimes the opposite even though they are not spouses.
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znanwalla



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe nowadays they do actually announce the names of Mukhiansaheba and kamadianisaheba (even if they are actual spouses) and so it confirms that the intent all along was what I have assumed it to be....the mere fact that the names in the past were not announced, did not diminish their own personal authority or position as it always was and will remain, equally significant and authoritative in the scheme of things...
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AsadALLAH



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does Hazar Imam selcts all chalu M/K and M/K Sahebs all over the world?

Another thing, how many years of bandagi does mandli M/K have?
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znanwalla



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asad whoever,

Firstly there is nothing like "chalu"....so at least get the terminology correct ! It is "Jamati"...and Yes! they are appointed by the Imam and as far as I am concerned they are the highest authority in JK, after the Imam and in his physical absence....the rest are subservient in authority to them be they Council President or Itreb Chairman....and I am talking of authority not anything else....as for your next question, it is an incompetent question in the sense it stems from ignorance of our tariqa.... and you need to first differentiate and define the various levels that exist within Ismailism and not simply "lump" them together - you need to clearly understand what is our sharia? what is "bandagi"? and what is service to the Imam? and then you will know whether one requires certain hours of bandagi or not, in order to serve?.....there are four levels that do exist in our tariqa and many are ignorant about them.....so first make clear distinctions, understand them and you will get your answers automatically and if you don't then ask one of your waezins in your area and he will explain as these are basic issues ....some of our ismaili scholars are brilliant and well versed too....and above them all is the Imam e zamana, the inheritor and the guardian of the faith......good luck !
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1256

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So does Hazar Imam selcts all chalu M/K and M/K Sahebs all over the world?

Another thing, how many years of bandagi does mandli M/K have?


yes brother, they are appointed by H.I himself.....the president selects 5-6 person eligible to become a mukhi or kamadiya and these names are forwarded to MHI and he in return chooses 1.

how many years of bandagi ??

honestly i dunno....i think a person is selected by years of his seva to jamat and not by bandagi alone
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Ginans Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
When 500 years of bandagi is accepted in the huzoor pur Noor of MHI then that person is appointed as a Mukhi

and it is 300 years for Kamadia

This is mentioned in our ginans explicitly.


Is there any Ginan or Farman which mention this?
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2059
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Munir I heard this in waez but I don't know any ginan mentioned about this.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20913

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alinizar313 wrote:
Here is that ginan written by Syed Imam Shah

Mukhi te je jivne moksh jo aale, ane moksh mugat no maram batavaiy
Mukhi te je kiske gher javaiy, oonkaiy jiv ka bhala ker aavaiy
Mukhi te je asat naa maarag na jaave, ane jiv ku moksh mugat le jaave
Mukhi te je servaiy bela nikalaiy, ane lakh chorasi na faira taraiy
Mukhi te je moova maanvi jivta keraiy, jinka dil hovaiy tena kaj saraiy
Mukhi te je saare gharku jiv daave, teni bamni kamai kabul karaave
Mukhi te je daayaa hove, ane sarve jivku vaikunth me bahaave
Mukhi te je aap amer bhaid jarne, ane agam nigam ni vaat pichhanaiy
Mukhi te je Soodh boodh versaad ki jarnaiy, ane sevaiy na ghar ni vaat parmarain
mukhi te je pir paigamber ne najraiy dekhaiy, ane janam mararn ki hel jo paikhaiy
Mukhi te je saat vaat saachi kari maane, tanhaa kamaai sahi kari jaane
mukhi te je men maari rehaiy, ane mukh ma maar konaiy na kahe
Temni sevaa amar jage, ane sat saburi santosh maange.

There is a book called "Ceremonies and Practices" written by Alwaez Kamaluddin and alwaeza Zarina Kamaluddin. It contains a chapter on Mukhi Kamadias and contains the meaning of the above mentioned statements below.

Mukhi is he who grants salvation to the soul and shows the secret of salvation and redemption.
Mukhi is he, who, when goes to someone's house, does some good to his soul.
Mukhi is he who does not go on the path of evil; and grants salvation and redemption to the soul.
Mukhi is he who removes all calamities and saves from the cycles of rebirth.
Mukhi is he who revives the dead and fulfills the wishes of those who desire.
Mukhi is he who infuses life in the house and gives double rewards of the deeds.
Mukhi is he who is a gentleman and takes all the souls to heaven.
Mukhi is he who knows the secret of eternity and is aware of the inaccessible wisdom.
Mukhi is he who has the knowledge of rain and has the information of each house.
Mukhi is he who sees the Pirs and the Messengers and understands the meaning of life and death.
Mukhi is he who accepts the truth and considers its reward as true.
Mukhi is he whose mind is under control, and does not curse anyone by his mouth.

May his service always continue and may he seek truth, patience and contentment.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt Mukhis and Kamadias are appointed by Hazar Imam. My question is when after 3/6 years when their term is over still they posses spiritual powers or not granted by Imam?
There was a time when Mukhis were on top and were involved in all jamaiti activities, there was always " HUKUM MUKHI SAHEB JO". Now adays they are limited to only JK premise and not beyond. They are termed as CEO of JK. Mukhi Saheb has only JK JURISPRUDENCE of his area. Mukhi cann't surpass councils ( LIF, Federal, Regional ) or ITREB. He has no power to ask any qualified member of Jamait to deliver waiz. BEECHARA MUKHI SAHEB!!
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 6061

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mukhi is Mukhi for the time of his appointment. He gives chanta to the president of the council in the hospital before death and when the president dies, Mukhi gives him the last chanta.

Mukhi represent the Imam. All these clowns who diminish the status of the Mukhi or try to restrict him between 4 walls are the enemies of the Imam.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20913

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MHI made the following Farman:

"The Mukhis and Kamadias who are the Imam's representatives in the Jamatkhanas receive directions more and more so. And I wish it to be clear therefore that in Tariqah matters, I am aware and there will be no change in the essence of our faith." (Dar -es-Salaam, Oct 6, 1988)

From the above it is quite clear that the MKs have main authority as far as Jamati matters are concerned. The ITREBs and the Council are only in advisory capacity, but the decisions as to what should take place in JKs is the responsibility of the MKs.
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