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Hindu Mythology and Indian Terminology / Civilisations
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

How innocent public will distinguish in between fake Mazhars, so it is better there should be only one Mazhar of Allah. I am also considered a fake Mazhar of Shiva!!


No need to create more, we already have 8 fake Mazhar on this board and somehow they all point to your account.



Aji kaam ko dekho, naam mey kia rakha hai. Keep guessing, I am enjoying.
Here is a beautiful couplet of Shah Latif Bhittai for you;

MULK MIRYOUI MANSOOR
KUHI KUHANDEY KEERTRA

WHOLE COUNTRY IS FILLED WITH MANSOORS, HOW MANY CAN YOU MASSACRE.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Again you neglected the farman of MSMS I quoted; Let me quote again and see what is your opinion.
" INSAAN JIY(N)A SUDHI DUNIYA MA JIVTO CHHEY TIY(N)A SUDHI NOOR NU PANI TENA HAATH MA AAVI SHAKTO NATHI", MSMS.
Fana dar fana dar fana is not a ticket to see the REAL movie of God. Shams or Romi are gods with small 'g', but can't be called Supreme God with capital 'G', THAT God is beyond imagination and comprehension as said by Imam.!!
There is a Farman of MSMS which states: "Live in this world, and while living in this world, do good deeds. A momin can also be in union with the Ultimate in this world." (Dar es Salaam, Mar 9, 1925)

And MHI has said: "And one day, there will only be that Light, there will be no physical context left in the life of each individual. Therefore, seek out that Light and practise regularly, and be discreet." (London, August 6, 1994 )

So it is possible to be in Union with God and the Light in this life as well.
shivaathervedi wrote:

I have Gita at home and have read chapter 11. Krishna showed BRIMANDH in his PINDH. What he showed Arjuna was unlimited hands, feet, faces, mouths and so on. But those were shown in human forms because Arjuna was not capable of understanding the reality of his spiritual form like Moses.
Those were not of noorani hands, feet, faces and so on. Krishna showed Arjuna limited mysteries of his spiritual kingdom.!!
I think Arjuna was ready for the light and therefore he was shown light in the full splendour. Just read the whole Chapter 11. I have quoted the important verses and it appears you have not read them.
shivaathervedi wrote:

How innocent public will distinguish in between fake Mazhars, so it is better there should be only one Mazhar of Allah. I am also considered a fake Mazhar of Shiva!!
There is only one person who is recognized as the Mazhar and that is the Imam, but that does not preclude existence of others. One has to exercise his or her own judgement and use the gift of intellect to determine the true ones from the fake.

Otherwise you are saying that only an infinite minority has access to the Mazhar which is ridiculous.



Then what you have to say about the farman I quoted of MSMS.
What is meant by NOOR NU PANI(WATER).
You are right there should be only ONE REAL MAZHAR OF ALLAH, others if any are of lower level whom excess granted to visualize His splendor at lower levels. Those who are considered gods may be included in 33 crore devtas by counting 33 crore plus 1,2,3 and so on with small 'g' as gods.
Common masses are not of that higher level of intellectuals like you to figure out easily who is an extra Mazhar.
Krishna showed his splendor to Arjuna and lured him to kill his cousins, relatives, and thousands of his enemies, bravo what kind of spirituality!!
Krishna was all powerful he should have done alone, why he used a person who even did not wanted to kill his relatives?
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VRATA

Vrut, fasting in Hindu Dharma; Many people of various faiths observe a period of fasting each year, for example Lent in Christianity and Ramadan in Islam. In the same way Hindus observe a period of fasting. Generally there are 23 types of Vratas in Hinduism.

VRATA is a Sanskrit word that means "vow, resolve, devotion", and refers to pious observances such as fasting and pilgrimage (Tirtha) found in Indian religions. This is particularly common among women, and typically accompanied with prayers seeking health and happiness for her loved ones.

Derived from the root ‘vr’ ("will, rule, restrain, conduct, choose, select"), the word is found over 200 times in the Rigveda. It is also found in other Vedic literature including the Upanishads, but the context suggests that the meaning of the word in the Vedic era was not as a personal pious observance, in the sense of inner principles and universal laws that keep order in the cosmos. Every man's vocation, as in hymn 9.112.1 of the Rigveda, is called his Vrata. Thus, whatever profession one is devoted to, resolves to do his best in, is deemed Vrata in the Vedic literature. The act of sacrifice, in another context such as in hymn 1.93.8 of the Rigveda, is also called a Vrata.

The post-Vedic texts use the term as a form of self-imposed restrictions on food and behavior, sometimes with a vow. The concept evolves as a form of religious votive rite, personalized and interiorized, one that does not need a public ceremony or a private one, but that is privately observed. Its meaning retains a sense of personal sacrifice (fast, or restricted diet), in exchange for hope, accompanied with a prayer to a personally defined or cherished divinity, and propelled by the wish for the well being of one's loved ones.

Vrata is a religious votive rite, a vow often involving abstinence from food, particularly common with women. It may be accompanied with elaborate prayers, other rites such as charity or visit to a temple, sometimes observed during festivals or with sanskara (rite of passage) ceremonies. It is found in ancient Hindu texts such as the Vedas, but in a fluid context that is not in the sense of pious observances.

The Hindu Upanishads conceptualize Vrata as an ethical and behavioral discipline process, one where food is respected, the needy helped, the stranger welcomed, the student carries on the pursuit of knowledge. The Puranas link the practice to the empowering concept of Shakti of a woman. A vrata is a personal practice, typically involves no priest, but may involve personal prayer, chanting, reading of spiritual texts, social get together of friends andfamily, or silent meditation.

A Vrata may be motivated by many factors and is observed by both genders, but far more often by women. The most common are temporal wishes, such as the speedy recovery of a sick child, success or happiness for a loved one, fertility, ward off negativity or dangers, make prayers and good wishes for someone departing for a distant place. In the case of women, the prayers are usually on behalf of brother(s), children or husband, but sometimes for her own prosperity, mind-body balance and health.

Vrata may be observed as a silent private rite, or be more elaborate with activities such as vrata mandalas design such as kolam, rangoli or mehndi.
A Vrata is observed either as an independent private ritual at a date of one's choice, as part of a particular ceremony such as wedding, or as a part of a major festival such as Diwali (Lakshmi, festival of lights), Shivaratri (Shiva), Navratri (Durga or Rama), Ekadashi (Krishna, Vishnu avatars).

A typical Vrata involves a fast for a fixed period of time, usually a full day, where either no food is eaten, or only one meal is eaten in the entire day, or only a certain food such as milk is consumed during the period of the Vrata. Other observances include sleeping on the ground or a short sleep, or alternatively yoga with meditation, reading scripture and charitable giving (dana).
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Admin



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Vrat can be abstinence from anything, from food, from talking (Mohan Vrat) etc...

The same can be said of Roza. and it is a concept even practiced in Christianism and Judaism. One of the rare instance when the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) kept the Vrat of not eating was when he traveled though an area where Jews were fasting and he said he did it by sympathy and courtesy to them. Another example of Vrat was that of 40 days in different forms by various prophets such as Jesus, Moses, and many others

In fact even God did a Vrat (He abstained - this is the meaning of Vrat) - When God warned that he would destroy Ninive in 40 days, people of Ninive started a Vrat and started also behaving properly and when God saw that they were becoming better, he decided to abstain also from destroying them icon_wink.gif
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19621

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Then what you have to say about the farman I quoted of MSMS.
What is meant by NOOR NU PANI(WATER).
Can you provide the reference of the Farman - date and place. I need to know the context. It sounds odd.

There is a verse of a Ginan which says:

eji sayyed mahammed shaah aakhave, kal maa(n)he saathee keeje
prem peeyaalaa nur kaa, baavaa bhar bhar peeje................5

O momins! Sayyed Mohammed Shaah says, " in the present age make
companionship(of the Guide). Brothers, fill the cup of love over and
over and drink the Light (NOOR) from it".

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22836
shivaathervedi wrote:

Krishna showed his splendor to Arjuna and lured him to kill his cousins, relatives, and thousands of his enemies, bravo what kind of spirituality!!
Krishna was all powerful he should have done alone, why he used a person who even did not wanted to kill his relatives?
The Gita is also allegorical alluding to the real battle which one must fight against his lower nafs. The Korwas are the negative psychological tendencies such as anger, greed, lust etc. These must be fought by oneself.

There is a verse of Kalame Mowla:

jehaad karanaa kaafarse(n)thee, e kalaam-me(n) hukam hae rabakaa;
to baddaa kaafar hae nafas amaaraa, sahee bujo ba(n)de sabakaa;
to jees ba(n)dene nafasku(n) maaraa, une fateh paaee donu(n) jahaan;
jo koee taabe manke rahyaa, to donu(n) jahaanme(n) huaa pashemaan..60

To wage Holy War against an infidel is the command of the Lord. But a greater infidel is your lower self(nafse amaaraa). Know this as true for all. The one who has defeated the lower self, has indeed achieved success in both worlds. The one who surrenders to the mind(lower self), is miserable in both worlds.
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kmaherali



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Posts: 19621

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
VRATA

Vrut, fasting in Hindu Dharma; Many people of various faiths observe a period of fasting each year, for example Lent in Christianity and Ramadan in Islam. In the same way Hindus observe a period of fasting. Generally there are 23 types of Vratas in Hinduism.

The term has been mentioned in the Ginans:

ejee travennee sosaar maa(n)he jeela(n)taa, ka(m)pe kaay re shareer
dharam vrat laine aadaro, theer raakhore jeev
joine vichaaree ne bol-jo, veera hak ke chaal jo
narsu(n) rahejo neerdhaar, dharam sa(n)cho dhan kyaa karo
kem karee utarso paele paar, joine vichaareene...............1

O momins: Swimming across the three fold (heavens, earth and
(undersurface) currents of the sea of the world, why does your
body shake? Maintain the religious discipline by adhering to the
religious vows
, hence keeping the mind balanced. Speak only
after thorough reflection and careful observation; O brothers,
act upon the path of righteousness. Serve and worship the Master
(Haazar Imaam) with conviction, gather religious benefits, why run
after worldly riches? If you do not do so, how will you get across
to the opposite bank?
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali madad:
I assume that the new member is allowed in this topic only.
I recently heard afarman read out in JK. It was made by MHI to BUK majlis members in london,UK between 1980-84 visit.Please someone try to get exact wordings from it.
YOU COME CLOSER AND CLOSER TO THE NOOR OF ALI WHICH IS ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE.
he did not use the time pass brand name of Allah.
Truth is where ALI is and not the other way around.
He is straight forward telling that none is above him and test themselves out thru Ibadat.As an Ismaili having regards and respect for ALI as a living Imam
One muster poder why HE said this.it was NO MISTAKE but absolute truth that one practising Ismaili must believe in.
In last 60 years there have many many times he has said in different,relational,covered or direct way that WHO HE IS.
Rest all depend on one's faith at what level it is blessed upto.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BK Farmans are absolutely not allowed here. Please restric your self. Beside, this is not the topic of this thread and your post has no real reference [I am not giving any opinion on the content].
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19621

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
.
Krishna showed his splendor to Arjuna and lured him to kill his cousins, relatives, and thousands of his enemies, bravo what kind of spirituality!!
Krishna was all powerful he should have done alone, why he used a person who even did not wanted to kill his relatives?
In my earlier post I explained that Gita can be interpreted allegorically. However even if we consider it from a literal point of view, Lord Krishna participated in the battle alongside Arjuna. Infact he was the charioteer as per verses:

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-01.html

1:14
Thereafter both Lord Krishna and Arjuna stationed on the magnificient chariot harnessed by white horses resounded their transcendental conchshells.

1:21
Arjuna said: "O Krishna please place the chariot between both of the armies so that I may look upon those warriors arrayed for battle with whom I have to fight in preparartion for the combat.

1: 24
Sanjaya said: "O Dhristarasta, thus being addressed by Arjuna, Lord Krishna drew up that finest of chariots between the two armies."

As the Imam says he is always with his murids, in times of peace and violence.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KARWA CHAUTH

The name Karwa Chauth is formed of two words 'Karwa' and 'Chauth', where Karwa means earthen oil lamp and Chauth means four. The day falls on the fourth day of Kartik month in Hindu calendar. This is also a harvest time of year, where people like to celebrate and meet friends and relatives. This festival also coincides with Diwali celebration, which comes nine days after Karwa Chauth. Although Karwa Chauth was initially celebrated as special bond shared between bride and a woman in her in laws household, gradually new aspect of celebration emerged out of this ancient custom. Today, it is observed more as an occasion to seek blessings from almighty for the long life and overall well being of one's husband. Even though the original custom of celebrating Karwa Chauth has greatly changed from what it used to be in the past, it still holds relevance to present day meaning of observing fast for the well-being of a husband.

The history of Karwa Chauth dates back to ancient times. It is believed that Karwa Chauth was originally followed as a ritual signifying the relationship between bride and a woman in her in laws household. In olden days, when bride leaves her parent's house after marriage, she looks out for friendship with another woman in her husband's household to share her emotions and problems. Her friendship with a woman in household is usually solemnized in the marriage ceremony and they are considered as sisters thereafter. They continue to hold this relationship for lifetime. Gradually, it drifted away from its original meaning and many legendary tales were associated with this festival. Today Karwa Chauth is observed as a day of fasting for all married women for long life of her husband.

There is also wide speculation about how this festival came to be held only in north and north western parts of India. One premise states that Karwa Chauth usually falls in that time of year when folks depart for long-distance journey and even for military assignment. In the Sapta Sindhu region, the areas basically remain dry until the Monsoon is back. So, it is believed that women in that part of region started observing fast for the well being and prolonged life of their husbands who have set on a long journey from home. Secondly, this festivity also falls during wheat sowing period, that is, the onset of Rabi crop season. People used to store wheat in big earthen clay pots which are known as 'Karva'. So, it is believed that the concept of fasting might have started as a wish for reaping good harvest in this wheat sowing region.

Whatever the history have to say, Karwa Chauth is now celebrated with great pomp and is considered as a very auspicious occasion for women—both married and committed. This festival reinforces the bond of love between husband-wife duos and hence, is special for every married individual.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This section has become a mix of cut and paste on hinduism mostly with millions of different subjects included. I would suggest that in order to keep this section separate, all info related to Ismailism be moved in other appropriate threads. For example anything to do with Kalame Mowla or our Ginans be in Ginan section, not here. I think this would make more sense. Thank you
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Then what you have to say about the farman I quoted of MSMS.
What is meant by NOOR NU PANI(WATER).
Can you provide the reference of the Farman - date and place. I need to know the context. It sounds odd.

There is a verse of a Ginan which says:

eji sayyed mahammed shaah aakhave, kal maa(n)he saathee keeje
prem peeyaalaa nur kaa, baavaa bhar bhar peeje................5

O momins! Sayyed Mohammed Shaah says, " in the present age make
companionship(of the Guide). Brothers, fill the cup of love over and
over and drink the Light (NOOR) from it".

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22836
shivaathervedi wrote:

Krishna showed his splendor to Arjuna and lured him to kill his cousins, relatives, and thousands of his enemies, bravo what kind of spirituality!!
Krishna was all powerful he should have done alone, why he used a person who even did not wanted to kill his relatives?
The Gita is also allegorical alluding to the real battle which one must fight against his lower nafs. The Korwas are the negative psychological tendencies such as anger, greed, lust etc. These must be fought by oneself.

There is a verse of Kalame Mowla:

jehaad karanaa kaafarse(n)thee, e kalaam-me(n) hukam hae rabakaa;
to baddaa kaafar hae nafas amaaraa, sahee bujo ba(n)de sabakaa;
to jees ba(n)dene nafasku(n) maaraa, une fateh paaee donu(n) jahaan;
jo koee taabe manke rahyaa, to donu(n) jahaanme(n) huaa pashemaan..60

To wage Holy War against an infidel is the command of the Lord. But a greater infidel is your lower self(nafse amaaraa). Know this as true for all. The one who has defeated the lower self, has indeed achieved success in both worlds. The one who surrenders to the mind(lower self), is miserable in both worlds.



I quoted that particular farman from the farman book " RUHANI ROSHINI" in Gujrati, published by Ismailia Association for Pakistan in 1977, page # 17.

Here I am quoting one CRUCIAL part of Ginan by Pir Sadardin in which he equated NOOR with SAKHAWAT.

SAMI TARO KOUN CHHEY MATA NEY KOUN CHHEY PITA
SAMI TARO NOOR MA(N)HEY CHHEY THAAM
NOOR SAKHAWAT EEK CHHEY
SAMIYE BAHU DHARAVIYA NAAM.
PIR SADARDIN.

No doubt great jihad is with nafs e amarah, so what Krishna and Arjuna were doing in Maha Bharata, Jihad e Akbar or Jihad e Asghar, where Sanjey was commentator, Krishna was advisor and Arjuna was warrior.

Drink what kind of prem piyala!

MAI(N) PREM DA PIYALA PI AAYA
PAL WHICH SADIYA(N)A JI AAYA.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
A Vrat can be abstinence from anything, from food, from talking (Mohan Vrat) etc...

The same can be said of Roza. and it is a concept even practiced in Christianism and Judaism. One of the rare instance when the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) kept the Vrat of not eating was when he traveled though an area where Jews were fasting and he said he did it by sympathy and courtesy to them. Another example of Vrat was that of 40 days in different forms by various prophets such as Jesus, Moses, and many others

In fact even God did a Vrat (He abstained - this is the meaning of Vrat) - When God warned that he would destroy Ninive in 40 days, people of Ninive started a Vrat and started also behaving properly and when God saw that they were becoming better, he decided to abstain also from destroying them icon_wink.gif



God is beyond imagination and comprehension, how you come to know He did Vrat? Muslims believe all events are written in Loh e Mahfuz can't be changed. So God made a rule and by Vrat broke the rule. LA SUNATALLAHI TABDILLA. God do not change His principles. If 40 days warning came was that through news papers, internet, or cell phones. Obviously that should be through some medium. If that medium was a prophet means that was his intercessor.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

God is beyond imagination and comprehension, how you come to know He did Vrat? Muslims believe all events are written in Loh e Mahfuz can't be changed. So God made a rule and by Vrat broke the rule. LA SUNATALLAHI TABDILLA. God do not change His principles. If 40 days warning came was that through news papers, internet, or cell phones. Obviously that should be through some medium. If that medium was a prophet means that was his intercessor.


I am disapointed, I thought you will identify immediately which Prophet announced that God decided the destruction of Ninive but later abstained.

Perhaps I misjudged your general knowledge.. but you can still use google icon_wink.gif
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19621

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
This section has become a mix of cut and paste on hinduism mostly with millions of different subjects included. I would suggest that in order to keep this section separate, all info related to Ismailism be moved in other appropriate threads. For example anything to do with Kalame Mowla or our Ginans be in Ginan section, not here. I think this would make more sense. Thank you
I think our Satpanth tradition is very much related to the culture influenced by Hinduism. Therefore I think wherever appropriate which should mention the Ginans if the various terminologies are also in the Ginans and to note whether the meanings and application are the same or different.

Otherwise what is the point of having this thread at all in the Ginans section.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:


SAMI TARO KOUN CHHEY MATA NEY KOUN CHHEY PITA
SAMI TARO NOOR MA(N)HEY CHHEY THAAM
NOOR SAKHAWAT EEK CHHEY
SAMIYE BAHU DHARAVIYA NAAM.
PIR SADARDIN.

No doubt great jihad is with nafs e amarah, so what Krishna and Arjuna were doing in Maha Bharata, Jihad e Akbar or Jihad e Asghar, where Sanjey was commentator, Krishna was advisor and Arjuna was warrior.

Drink what kind of prem piyala!

MAI(N) PREM DA PIYALA PI AAYA
PAL WHICH SADIYA(N)A JI AAYA.
I will try to check the Farman. The translation of the verse of the Ginan is:

eji saamee taaro konn chhe maataa ne konn chhe peetaa,
saamee taaro nurmaa(n)he chhe tthaam;
nur sakhaavat ek chhe,
saamee-e bahu dharaavyaa naam................................30

O momins: O Lord who is your mother and father? O Lord your abode is in Light. The source of the gracious bounty of light is one but the Lord has assumed many names(forms).

So the Noor is available for drinking and not meant for after death only.

What is the Ginan for the other verse that you mentioned?
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali madad.
30 pages gone,Is this mythology done with?
assuming more info coming on Yagna and maha Yagna etc.
Today young Ismaili jamat needs to be inspired and impressed upon by Farmans of MHI.
I assume if anyone is interested in vedic stories as standalone of even mentioned in ginan,many which could be in Unwarranted section.
This topic has been 95% copy pasting from page 01 onwards and 5% analytics may be a wise member of the forum.
Has Admin set any direction of this site that toward year 2100 or 5000 BC?
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
I quoted that particular farman from the farman book " RUHANI ROSHINI" in Gujrati, published by Ismailia Association for Pakistan in 1977, page # 17.
I got the translation of the Farman which states:

"Any person who continues the practice of doing exercise for five, ten or twenty years, acquires strength in his hands and body; likewise, when your actions (a mal) will become virtuous and when your hands, heart (dil) and faith (iman) will be purified, only then, you will be able to become a firashta.

As long as man is alive (jivto) in the world, the water of Noor remains inaccessible for him, because, God forbid, if after twenty, thirty or forty years he again becomes vain (magroor) and starts doing evil, sinful acts, then he becomes like that of a Satan.

For an example, listen! Azaziyil has ascended up to the seventh heaven by doing bandagi, but he had not understood the essence (magaz) of religion. He did not obey the Farman of God; hence, he became Satan and fell onto the earth. You, too, whilst you are in the world, must never become vain (magroor), must not commit even a tiny bit of evil act. Like a doctor who checks the pulse of a sick man to know whether the patient has a fever or not; in the same manner, you yourself become a doctor and check the pulse of your heart (dil). You ask yourself: "Have I committed any act of disobedience (befarmani)? Is my heart envious of anyone? Do evil, Satanic thoughts occur to me? Do I nurse enmity towards anyone? Am I betraying anyone?" Examine your heart in this way. If you were committing such acts, then certainly your soul would assure you about it." (Nairobi 6--10--1905)

So the way I interpret the Farman is that if one drinks even a small anount of the Noor, he should not reveal about it to others as it can make him proud (magroor). And also to the those who hear that someone has drunk Noor should not believe in it as it can only happen after death.

But in reality one can drink Noor and become a farista. However, only authorized people such as the Pirs may say that they have drunk it. Others should not reveal it.
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ismaili103



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Posts: 498

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
MAI(N) PREM DA PIYALA PI AAYA
PAL WHICH SADIYA(N)A JI AAYA.


Admin take some action agianst this so called ismaili and big Ginan and Pir hater aka Mazhar.

He again using his disgusting propaganda to degrade Ginans, the above lines which he present as the verse and asking the question that what is mean by that Prem da pyala is not Ginan but these are line from a nonscense Bollywood song.

Karim bhai these are line from song in hindi movie, whenever Mazhar quote any Ginan and if you can't find it source than understand that he make some false verse. Just like his beloved Quran have 99% false verses.
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Admin



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Posts: 5906

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
Quote:
MAI(N) PREM DA PIYALA PI AAYA
PAL WHICH SADIYA(N)A JI AAYA.

Karim bhai these are line from song in hindi movie, whenever Mazhar quote any Ginan and if you can't find it source than understand that he make some false verse. Just like his beloved Quran have 99% false verses.


There is no need for any action. The lyrics for this HIndi film song is all over the place on the internet.

Mazhar has already, without any help, discredited himself by many times giving false reference and misquoting sources so I don't think anyone really believes him now.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
ismaili103 wrote:
Quote:
MAI(N) PREM DA PIYALA PI AAYA
PAL WHICH SADIYA(N)A JI AAYA.

Karim bhai these are line from song in hindi movie, whenever Mazhar quote any Ginan and if you can't find it source than understand that he make some false verse. Just like his beloved Quran have 99% false verses.


There is no need for any action. The lyrics for this HIndi film song is all over the place on the internet.

Mazhar has already, without any help, discredited himself by many times giving false reference and misquoting sources so I don't think anyone really believes him now.



you might have noticed that while posting part of ginans, I have mentioned the name of pir.
'PREM PIYALA' couplet which I have posted is from sufi poetry. In many songs sufi poetry verses or couplets are used even of mowlana Romi.
usually you are carried away by negative posts of couple of your members with little knowledge of literature. I like discussing with persons like Kmaherali and not those who hurl cheap shots. Mr, 103 aka Karim Jivani has tendency of popping up with couple of lines to show his presence and then go into deep sleep. When real and tough questions are asked or discussed he and his like minded disappear. I am sharing information and knowledge and damn care for credit. I am not a kind of person who want to leave his legacy by posting 2/3 lines completing 3000/5000 posts.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad that some members pop up with real information for example the one pointing that the verse you are suggesting are from our Ismaili Ginans are in really from recent Hindi Film.

Here is the translation of Ramta Jogi song from movie Taal.

http://www.hindilyrics.net/translation-Taal/Ramta%20Jogi.htmlan,
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody know your intentions, in past you had also posted other lines from this song like "I am like RAMTAA JOGI" , I think you're so much obssesed with these song that I'm sure one day you'll post the full song by attaching name of the Pir with it, and yes we all know you can fall such below.

And BTW I don't think so you are sharing any information, you are just copy and pasting hinduism from internet which has nothing to do with Ismailism.
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW mazhar, you'd asked me the name of the person from your area who claimed to be Imam,

His name was Allama Nasiruddin Hunza.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are serious allegations and have no place in this thread. Please do not discuss this here unless you have strong evidence in writing or in video.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:


SAMI TARO KOUN CHHEY MATA NEY KOUN CHHEY PITA
SAMI TARO NOOR MA(N)HEY CHHEY THAAM
NOOR SAKHAWAT EEK CHHEY
SAMIYE BAHU DHARAVIYA NAAM.
PIR SADARDIN.

No doubt great jihad is with nafs e amarah, so what Krishna and Arjuna were doing in Maha Bharata, Jihad e Akbar or Jihad e Asghar, where Sanjey was commentator, Krishna was advisor and Arjuna was warrior.

Drink what kind of prem piyala!

MAI(N) PREM DA PIYALA PI AAYA
PAL WHICH SADIYA(N)A JI AAYA.
I will try to check the Farman. The translation of the verse of the Ginan is:

eji saamee taaro konn chhe maataa ne konn chhe peetaa,
saamee taaro nurmaa(n)he chhe tthaam;
nur sakhaavat ek chhe,
saamee-e bahu dharaavyaa naam................................30

O momins: O Lord who is your mother and father? O Lord your abode is in Light. The source of the gracious bounty of light is one but the Lord has assumed many names(forms).

So the Noor is available for drinking and not meant for after death only.

What is the Ginan for the other verse that you mentioned?



Drink what kind of prem piyala!
Please note no where I used the word ginan or pir with that particular couplet. Your misunderstanding created misunderstanding among a member fond of movie songs though that couplet is available in Punjabi poetry.
Now back to that part of ginan, every one has right to interpret in his/her own way but look at the wordings the wordings;
NOOR SAKHAWAT EEK CHHEY
The simple meaning is Noor and sakhawat are same. I wanted to discuss this particular sentence. If I do sakhawat means still I am entitled to noor no questions asked about my bad deeds and no proper Iman?
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
BTW mazhar, you'd asked me the name of the person from your area who claimed to be Imam,

His name was Allama Nasiruddin Hunza.


ILZAAM LAGANA AASAN HAI.
Allamah Saheb has written more than hundred books on Ismailism. He revived the Brushiki (Hunzai language and script). His poetry is in 4 languages. His poetry is considered as GINANS by Imam. His Qasidas were recited in presence of Imam while didar and are recited in JKs of Hunza Valley.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
Everybody know your intentions, in past you had also posted other lines from this song like "I am like RAMTAA JOGI" , I think you're so much obssesed with these song that I'm sure one day you'll post the full song by attaching name of the Pir with it, and yes we all know you can fall such below.

And BTW I don't think so you are sharing any information, you are just copy and pasting hinduism from internet which has nothing to do with Ismailism.



The word JOGI is used by pirs in many ginans. The couplet I quoted is available in Punjabi poetry and has nothing to do with the song obsessed by you and Admin. In my view You are scoring the points, Here is one real for you;
NA KOI RAHBAR NA RAHZAN
TOU PHIR ILZAAM LAGEY KIS PAR
BUS DEEVANGI DEEVANGI HAI.
Ask Admin about this he is also fond of songs.

For your second part of statement read the post of Kmaherali, posted on 19 June,2016, 7.38 pm. He wrote, " I think our Satpanthi tradion is very much related to the culture influenced by Hinduism. Now you can understand why this thread was started with blessings of Admin.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
I quoted that particular farman from the farman book " RUHANI ROSHINI" in Gujrati, published by Ismailia Association for Pakistan in 1977, page # 17.
I got the translation of the Farman which states:

"Any person who continues the practice of doing exercise for five, ten or twenty years, acquires strength in his hands and body; likewise, when your actions (a mal) will become virtuous and when your hands, heart (dil) and faith (iman) will be purified, only then, you will be able to become a firashta.

As long as man is alive (jivto) in the world, the water of Noor remains inaccessible for him, because, God forbid, if after twenty, thirty or forty years he again becomes vain (magroor) and starts doing evil, sinful acts, then he becomes like that of a Satan.

For an example, listen! Azaziyil has ascended up to the seventh heaven by doing bandagi, but he had not understood the essence (magaz) of religion. He did not obey the Farman of God; hence, he became Satan and fell onto the earth. You, too, whilst you are in the world, must never become vain (magroor), must not commit even a tiny bit of evil act. Like a doctor who checks the pulse of a sick man to know whether the patient has a fever or not; in the same manner, you yourself become a doctor and check the pulse of your heart (dil). You ask yourself: "Have I committed any act of disobedience (befarmani)? Is my heart envious of anyone? Do evil, Satanic thoughts occur to me? Do I nurse enmity towards anyone? Am I betraying anyone?" Examine your heart in this way. If you were committing such acts, then certainly your soul would assure you about it." (Nairobi 6--10--1905)

So the way I interpret the Farman is that if one drinks even a small anount of the Noor, he should not reveal about it to others as it can make him proud (magroor). And also to the those who hear that someone has drunk Noor should not believe in it as it can only happen after death.

But in reality one can drink Noor and become a farista. However, only authorized people such as the Pirs may say that they have drunk it. Others should not reveal it.


Good job, correct farman. But did you noticed that MSMS has given reason why some one can't get 'NOOR NU PANI'. Also question arises, Is Noor something drinkable liquid?
NOOR NA PIYALA CHHANDHITI HURA(N) DEKHO AAEI RE.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ILZAAM LAGANA AASAN HAI.
Allamah Saheb has written more than hundred books on Ismailism. He revived the Brushiki (Hunzai language and script). His poetry is in 4 languages. His poetry is considered as GINANS by Imam. His Qasidas were recited in presence of Imam while didar and are recited in JKs of Hunza Valley.


And bottom line is that he claimed to be Imam. Internet is full of his photos wearing a Jabba( Imams darbar dress ) and doing disgusting things and I think every Ismaili in Pakistan know about him.

BTW what is the evidence that Imam considered his poetry as Ginans.

Also read this thread

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1052&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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