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Hindu Mythology and Indian Terminology / Civilisations
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Hindu Mythology and Indian Terminology / Civilisations Reply with quote

In Hindu belief, creation started with the Divine Syllable - Om. Knowledge was one of the first creations to take place. It is supposed to have radiated from the Mind of Lord Vishnu to that of Lord Brahma and ultimately emanate from his mouth in the form of Vedas.

The tree of knowledge that we call Hinduism is so dense that an uninitiated reader may get lost in its complexities and detail. Hindu texts abound with highly intellectual philosophies with conceptions of impressive range and depth. In one of the most beautiful examples of Vedic thought is;

Om
The Supreme Brahman is Infinite,
Infinite is the Brahman of a Soul,
The Infinite comes from Infinite,
And on reducing Infinite from the Infinite,
The Infinite still stands Alone!

Hinduism has never been based on just one set of principles, rather it has thrived and survived the millenia because of its acceptance of varying and sometimes even contradictory schools of thought! The most intellectual of these, the Vedanta emphasizes the Supreme Brahman as a non-personal metaphysical concept free from any mythological moorings.

Another school of thought is the Yoga which seeks the union of God (Parmatma) and Soul (Atma) by means of meditation and various physical as well as mental disciplines. In the following passages, I would try to give the gist of what each of these religious texts convey.

The Vedas (root Vid meaning Knowledge) are called Amnaya or Apaurushya implying that they are non-human in origin and have been recieved through revelation from God. They are the foundation stones of Hinduism and were revealed to the Mantra-Drashtas or Rishis through Divine sources as they progressed on the path of Spirituality.
Unlike other world religions, Vedas do not owe authority to ONE single messenger of God. Rather, they are the authority themselves for they are the knowledge of the Lord. For ages, the Vedas were passed on from one generation to another by word of mouth.

They were never written down as the ancient Indians relied more on their intellect and memory than the written word. Hence, the Vedas are also known as Shruti - 'That which is Heard' while everything else is Smriti. Shruti is considered to be of divine origin, and hence, is preserved as a whole instead of some verses.

In the beginning, the four Vedas were one and consisted of a Hundred thousand verses. But to cope with man's diminishing abilities of comprehension as time progressed, Rishi Ved-Vyas divided them into four parts and entrusted four of his brightest disciples with the task of attaining mastery over the four Vedas.

Thus, Rishi Pail mastered the Rigveda, Vaishampayan mastered Yajurveda, Jaimini took charge of Samaveda and Sumantu perfected himself in the Atharvaveda. Each of these learned seers divided their text further as time progressed so that more and more people could attain benefit from their teachings. Accordingly, today we have a total of 1180 divisions comprising of 21 sections of Rigveda, 109 of Yajurveda, 1000 of Samveda and 50 of the Atharva-veda.
Each different section in the Vedas has a concluding portion somewhat like the Summary which are collectively known as the Upanishads. These texts are widely considered the zenith of Indian thought process and belong to the highest class of philosophical entreaties in the world.

Besides, there are Aranyaks that connect Vedas to the Upanishads and the commentaries on Vedas are known as Brahmanas. Further, to simplify the study of Vedas, ancient rishis developed Vedangs which are in the form of Shiksha, Kalpa, Vyakran, Nirukta, Chhanda, and Jyotish.

Rest of the texts fall in the category of Smriti and include all the knowledge that has been derived and inculcated 'after' Shruti had already been received by the great Rishis. If ever there is a conflict between the two, it is advised that Shruti will always overrule Smriti.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAMPU DWEEP:

Different scholars consider it variously as either the 'Indian sub-continent' or the 'Asian continent', and some equates it with heart or forehead (bhamar gufa).
Markandeya Puraan describes Jampu dweep as being depressed above and below and broad in the middle just like a Globe.
Srimad Bhagavatam points out that on Jampu dweep, night prevails diametrically opposite to a point where it is day and Sun sets at a point opposite to where it rises.
Mahabharat describes the Universe as a series of shells divided in two by an earth plane called the Bhu-mandala; Jampu dweep is the central landmark on this plane.
Jain and Buddhist cosmologies indicate Jampu dweep at the centre of Madhyaloka or the middle part of the universe, the place where Human-beings reside.
And perhaps the most important, various assorted texts describe Bharat Varsha or India as just ONE of the NINE divisions of Jampu dweep.
Along with Jampu dweep, the scriptures describe various other Islands which some scholars tend to confuse with the different islands of our planet and hence get flabbergasted. The entire landmass of Jampu dweep is described as a continuous stretch of land subdivided into different continents by means of various mountain ranges with each of these divisions being governed by the 9 sons of Emperor Agnidhra, the grandson of Adam/Manu.
This is clearly not the current state of affairs! The present landmasses on Earth are quite spread out and no where are they close to forming a global island. Besides, instead of Mountain ranges, it is the water bodies that separate them from each other.
The preliminary research on this topic shows, that there indeed was a time in the history of our planet when the ENTIRE land on Earth was joined to form a SINGLE landmass! In Geology, such an entity is called a Super-continent and quite suitably, the Scientists have labeled it as Pangea.
Could it be, that the scriptural reference of Jampu dweep, actually originated in a time when the Entire Earth was ONE whole Continent and not broken up into different landmasses.The descriptions in scriptures clearly define an island of gigantic proportions covering this entire globe and it is more than likely that they refer to one of the super-continents that have existed in our pre-history!
Jampu dweep as a Super-continent; It is a scientifically documented fact that Earth's Crust floats on the hot, molten layer called Magma. The solid crust not only moves on top of the fluid layer but is also broken into separate pieces called Plates that move relative to each other. This movement is referred to as Plate-tectonics.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad.
This copy paste of the past looks like from 6th Avatar of the living creature.
Just copy pasting of unwarranted data which NOBODY would give a dime for it is TOTALLY WASTE OF TIME.
If reflect the bankruptcy of one thinking as it can only survive on copy pasting the past of uncofrimed or validated material and does not have thinking aligned to time we are living in.
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who say it is unwanted data?
Only that person can says it is unwanted date who does not believe in teaching of Ismaili pirs, I do not see any thing wrong in above post of Shivaatharvedi!


Last edited by agakhani on Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19005

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
And perhaps the most important, various assorted texts describe Bharat Varsha or India as just ONE of the NINE divisions of Jampu dweep.
If Jamp Deep is interpreted as the whole world, than it makes sense from a Ginanic perspective.

In the Ginan: Anand Anand http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/3701, Pir Sadardeen states:

Eji Jampudip maahen Shaah maaro parvariyo;
ke rikhisar ne gher vadhaayun 3

Meaning: In Jampu Deep the Imam is manifest or known, greetings to the house of devotees thereby.

It would only be meaningful if it meant the whole world as the Imam was not physically present in the Sub continent at that time.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 497

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Eji Jampudip maahen Shaah maaro parvariyo;
ke rikhisar ne gher vadhaayun 3

Meaning: In Jampu Deep the Imam is manifest or known, greetings to the house of devotees thereby.


Above verse can be the prediction of Aga Khan period or about Imam Sultan Mohd Shah who was born in Karachi, sub continent.

BTW Imam had manifested in jampudweep as Ram , Krishna and Budh.

According to indian history, earth is divide into 7 dwips,

1) Jampu deep (Subcontinent, Tibet, Burma, Far East)
2) Shak deep (Europe)
3) Karunch deep (Africa)
4) Shakali deep (China, Russia)
5) Kash deep (Balochistan, Afghanistan)
6) Salmal deep (Arabia, Asia minor)
7) Setar deep (Persia, Iraq, Syria, Gulf)
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MERU PARVAT (PARBAT)

Mount Meru is the holiest mountain in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain cosmologies. Meru is believed to be the abode of gods.
The Kurma Puraan states that Jampu dweep lies in the middle of all Mortal Realms and in its center is the lofty Mt. Meru, bright as gold. Most other ancient scriptures also describe Meru as a colossal mountain with staggering dimensions; situated bang in the middle of the planet; inversely coned; expanding upwards; stretching beyond the skies at one end; and penetrating deep into the bowels of Earth at the other.

The ancient Hindu astronomical text known as the Suryasiddhant, locates Meru at the 'Navel of the Earth' and describes it as 'Passing through middle of the earth-globe, and protruding on either side'. Further ahead, it mentions a Meru in the middle of Earth, a Sumeru at the North Pole and a Kumeru at the South pole.

Tibetan Buddhism regards Meru as the Center of the Universe and believes it to be beyond the physical plane, in a realm of perfection and transcendence. Symbolic representations of Meru are frequently found in Tibetan and Bhutanese mandalas designed to aid in meditation.

Another ancient Sanskrit text, the Narpatijayacharya mentions Sumeru as being present in the middle of the Earth, but not seen there.

There is a Mount Meru in Tanzania, which roughly corresponds to the geographic Center of the Earth. The Mountain is even worshipped by the local tribes as an abode of Gods!!

Ancient scriptures describe Meru as the Central Pivot of the Universe, sort of like an Axis mundi, and claim that the ENTIRE COSMOS revolves around it, with the Sun, Moon and Stars paying obeisance while circum-ambulating the Holy Mountain.

Many scholars, presuming Meru to be a mountain, argue for the mountains of Kashmir or Pamirs as its location. But no mountain on the face of Earth can grow to such monstrous proportions as well as fit the vivid descriptions of the scriptures. Is Meru really a mountain or a reference to one of the legendary Pillars of Heaven? Is it located at the Pole or at the Center of the Earth?? For that matter, is it even a physical structure or just a poetic allegory for something else?

Meru as Earth's Axis extends through both ends of the Globe (Sumeru-Meru-Kumeru); is NOT visible to the naked eye (beyond the Physical plain), protrudes at the POLAR regions (covers North Pole and South Pole), and from the perspective of a man standing at the Pole, the entire cosmos quite literally revolves around it as well!

Thinking logically, either of the two poles could then be the right location.. However, Varah Mihir, the most famous Indian astronomer from ancient times, identified North Pole as the location of Meru in his celebrated work Panch-siddhantika. If we accept the Polar location and combine it with the description as the 'Abode of Gods', it would imply, that - North Pole is also the location of HEAVEN!!
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nuseri



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad.

------------------------------
DELETED BY ADMIN

Note: If you have nothing of substance to say, please refrain to post. Admin
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MANU THE FIRST MAN.

Hindu Scriptures call the first man on planet earth as Manu and make him the Indian counterpart of western and Islamic Adam, the First Human-being created by God.
The Brahma Puraan declares;
"To continue with Creation, Brahma gave form to a Man and a Woman. The man was Swayambhu Manu and the Woman was named Shatrupa. Humans are descended from Manu, that is the reason they are known as Manavs."
Indeed MANU is the root-word for both the Sanskrit 'Manushya' and the English 'Man' that derives origin from the Germanic Mannus which stems from the same root as Manu.
After creating the Devas, Asurs, Pitras etc. Lord Brahma was completely exhausted and decided to take a break. He sat ruminating about the direction his work had taken till now, when suddenly, from his body, emerged a creature who looked a lot like him. This was the First Man, Swayambhu Manu. Interestingly, the same incident is noted in Bible as 'Man was created in the Image of His Maker!'
Alon gwith Manu, there appears the feminine principle in the form of Shatrupa, the counterpart to Biblical Eve. Norse Mythology uses the terms Ask and Embla for Manu and Shatrupa, while the Zoroastrians called them Mashya and Mashyana. However, there are certain fundamental differences between the Western and Hindu concepts of the Creation of Man.
While in the former, God deliberately created Adam, in the Latter, Manu emerged ON HIS OWN from the body of Lord Brahma.
In the Western concept, woman was created from the rib of Man(u) but in Hindu tradition, both emerged on their own from the body of Brahma thus, there is an Equality of Sexes.
Again, unlike the Biblical and Islamic accounts, there is no mention of the First Couple being thrown out of the Garden-of-Eden and NO concept of the ORIGINAL SIN.
Neither is there a mention of the DEVIL disguised as a serpent who asked Eve to partake of the forbidden fruit which she passes on to Adam resulting in their expulsion.
Instead, Lord Brahma, quite willingly, asks Manu and Shatrupa to establish their dominion on the Planet Earth. Here, the Biblical and Quranic record matches with the Puranic story wherein Manu/Adam is made the Lord of all beings on Earth. Manu and Shatrupa asked to establish their dominion on Earth.The first man and woman did not develop in a womb, therefore could not have been connected to an Umbilical Cord like other Humans. This again matches with the Hindu conception of Manu and Shatrupa emerging full-grown from the body of Brahma without any BIOLOGICAL parents.
Now Swayambhu Manu and Shatrupa were all set to take their place in the scheme of things and populate the Earth with their progeny. But, when they tried to locate their future home, the planet Earth was not to be found anywhere! This is what had happened - While Brahma was busy with the creative process, a demon called Hiranyaksh (the Golden-Eyed), had abducted the Earth-goddess Bhumi from her central position in Bhu-loka and imprisoned her in the Lower planetary system of Rasaatal. Consequently, Manu and Shatrupa did not have a planet of their own anymore.
Brahma was dismayed and started praying to Lord Vishnu for help. The benevolent Lord then adopted the form of a huge boar (Varaha) to perform the dual task of releasing Bhumi-devi from imprisonment and vanquishing the demon Hiranyaksh.
The gigantic Varah entered the cosmic waters and began to search for the captive planet. He found the submerged Earth and raised it on His tusks up to the top of the Garbhodak Ocean, after which He proceeded to kill the evil demon Hiranyaksh. Since this Kalpa started with the appearance of Lord Vishnu, it is known as the Varah Kalpa and because of the First Man - Manu, the First Manvantar is known as the Swayambhu Manvantar.
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Story of Manu according to the hindu scriptures is related to Prophet Noah A.S.

Manu was ordered by Mach Avatar to make a ship and put pair of every animal in it, because flood is about to come and Mach Avatar is going to kill Shankasur.

Almost 75% of story related to Noah.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prophet Noah is known as Adam thani (second) and in Hindu mythology it is related to the story of second Manu named as Swarochi (Satyavrat). The name of first Manu is Swayambhu (very first man) where as name of second Manu is Swarochi. The story of storm and boat is almost same as mentioned in Quran and Bible.

Swarochi was the Manu for the second Manvantar and the son of fire-god Agni. At the end of this Manvantar, when the Great Deluge was to occur, another one of Lord's incarnations took place and for a very specific purpose. Lord Surya's son Satyavrat ruled the Dravid-desha in that period. When it was time for him to retire to the forest, he handed over the kingdom to his eldest son Ikshvaku (who gave rise to the Solar Dynasty). He then went to the foothills of Mount Malaya and started to perform meditation.
After a long time, Brahma appeared to him and granted him a boon, hence he asked the boon that he be allowed to carry on the role of Manu in the NEXT Manvantar and Brahma readily granted this boon.
One morning, Satyavrat was performing ablutions in a pond and immersed his hands in the water so that he might offer some water to his ancestors. When he raised his cupped hands, he was amazed to find a tiny minnow (shafari) in his hands and that too, a talking one!
The tiny fish requested for shelter and Satyavrat obliged the creature. But, during the night, the fish grew too large for the small pot it was in, so in the morning, the King had to transfer it to a small pond and then move it to a still bigger one. King gets the fish moved from one pond to another.
However, the tiny fish continued to grow over the next day while Satyavrat took the fish from one pond to another and finally to the ocean, but soon it grew as large as the ocean itself! It was then, that the significance of what had happened struck the King, and he realized that the fish was none other that the Supreme Lord Vishnu Himself and immediately bowed down to pay his respects.
Satyavrat realizes the magical creature is Lord Vishnu Himself!The Lord, pleased with his humility, told him that he was to be the Manu for the next Manvantar. The responsibility of saving all species of life for their continuation in the next eon also lay with him. The Lord told him that exactly seven days after that day, Pralaya or the Great Deluge will come and everything will be swallowed by the mighty ocean waves.
Lord Vishnu told Satyavrat that the demigods themselves would construct a ship and he was to take with him the Saptarishis and a pair each of all species of living beings worth saving, and wait at the same spot for the Lord to come there.
The appointed day came, and clouds completely filled the sky. The torrential rains caused by Seven classes of clouds, known as Samvarta, Bhimananda, Drona, Chanda, Valahaka, Vidyutapataka and Kona began and entire land mass was flooded.
However, as instructed by Vishnu, Manu, along with his consort Shradha, the Saptarishis, chosen animals and plants was safe aboard the ship being buffeted by waves as large as mountains. As promised, at the predicted time, Lord Matsya appeared. His body had a golden effulgence and now He had a horn on His head.
The boat was tied by means of Nag-raj Vasuki, to the horn on the head of Matsya and thus, the virtuous devotees of Lord were saved to take life ahead to the next Eon. During the period of Deluge, Vaivasvat Manu asked Lord Vishnu several questions and this conversation is recorded in the form of the Matsya Puraan.
At last the rain stopped, the water took some more time to subside, and the land peeped out from under its watery prison. As promised, Satyavrat Vaivasvat Manu and his associates had been saved, and began the task of settling in the new world.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dus avatar translated from the Geet-Govind, and dedicated to the 10 glorious Incarnations of Lord Vishnu:

In the Great Deluge, You kept Vedas safe,
Like a ship undeflected, from its original course,
Hail Keshav in the form of Matsya,
Glories to Hari, Lord of the Universe!

On Your expansive back, You let the Mountain rest,
Like a Cosmic pivot, for churning the Ocean,
Hail Keshav in the form of Kurma,
Glories O Hari, Lord of the Universe!

In the depths of Garbhodak, You kept Bhu-Devi safe,
Like a speck on Moon, she rested on Your tusks,
Hail Keshav in the form of Varah,
Glories O Hari, Lord of the Universe!

On your mighty knees, You let the demon rest,
Like a leaf Hiranyakshipu lay, entire existence torn,
Hail Keshav in the form of Narsingh,
Glories O Hari, Lord of the Universe!

In three steps subduing Bali, You kept Three worlds safe,
Like a mountain spring, Ma Ganga washed Your feet,
Hail Keshav in the form of Vaman,
Glories O Hari, Lord of the Universe!

On the land destroying tyranny; You let our anguish rest,
Like the cleansing sunlight, You rid us of the wicked,
Hail Keshav in the form of Parshurama,
Glories O Hari, Lord of the Universe!

In the interest of Dharma; You kept All species safe,
Like the ten directions, were Ravan's ten heads spread,
Hail Keshav in the form of Shri Rama,
Glories O Hari, Lord of the Universe!

On Your plough, wearing blue; You let the Yamuna rest,
Like the celestial clouds, garments adorned Your form,
Hail Keshav in the form of Balraam,
Glories O Hari, Lord of the Universe!

In Kaliyug You opposed sacrifice; Keeping animals safe,
Like Your compassion, Your fame too shone,
Hail Keshav in the form of Buddha,
Glories O Hari, Lord of the Universe!

On Judgement day destroying Evil; You'll let their Souls rest,
Like a comet, your sword trailing destruction,
Hail Keshav in the form of Kalki,
All Glories to Hari, Lord of the Universe!
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krishna - The Historical Perspective
Krishna, the all-attractive-one is arguably the most popular God of the sub-continent! He is Megh-varna, the color-of-clouds; Go-pal, the protector of cows; Murli-manohar, who steals hearts by the melody of his flute; and Madan-Mohan who can mesmerize Cupid himself with His beauty..
Over this century, however, there have been many more developments which have shattered the earlier theories (such as the Aryan Invasion Theory) and have pushed back the dates of Vedic literature to much before what was believed by the early historians.

Historical period of Krishna;
Shrimad Bhagvatam declares that Krishna arrives on Earth towards the end of the Dwapar Yug of the 7th Manvantar of the 1st Kalpa of the 51st year of the current Brahma.
Currently, we are in the last of the four Yugas called the Kaliyuga which, according to astronomical calculations, began on the 20th of February 3102 BCE. Now, this would place Krishna roughly around 3300-3200 BCE as the Bhagvatam states that Kaliyuga couldn't begin till Krishna was on the planet!
Fortunately, there is a large body of literary and archaeological evidence that can guide us towards an approximate time-period for His presence. The earliest text to explicitly provide detailed descriptions of Krishna is of course the epic Mahabharat. Since it is primarily the history of the Kurus (Pandavs and Kauravs), Mahabharat contains only that part of Krishna's life that had a bearing on the fate of Kurus. However, its crown jewel is the Bhagvad Geeta which transforms Krishna from a much adored and cherished Princely diplomat to the Supreme God Himself. Mahabharat gives Krishna prime importance.
Grant Morrison, the visionary director of world-class Mahabharat-based animation succinctly puts;
The Gita, with its direct, no-nonsense guide to living in the odd universe we all share, is at the very heart of the story; everything else revolves around the moment when Krishna lays it on the line for Arjuna. The conflict is the war between desire and duty, the material and the spiritual, the war that is fought every day by every human being.Krishna reveals the Geeta to a bewildered Arjuna

It is generally understood that Mahabharat, was not written at one go, but was compiled over some years. The first section of the epic states that Rishi Ved-Vyas dictated the events of that age to Ganesha over a considerable period of time. This unfortunately, makes it difficult to put an exact date to the story and the time-period of Krishna.
However the recent discovery of the dry river-bed of Saraswati , can help put some conclusive dates to the epic. Mahabharat describes Saraswati as a disappearing river, but also mentions Lord Balrama traveling on Saraswati from Dwarka to Mathura, to immerse the ashes of Yadav martyrs after the battle. This implies that the river was navigable at the time of the Mahabharat War and the Epic was written BEFORE it had dried up, which as French scientists have discovered, was at least before 3000 BCE.

Another literary work known as the Harivamsha helps to fill the gaps in the account of Krishna's life that are missing from the Mahabharat. The Vishnu-puran and Bhagvat-Puran contain still more details about the life of Krishna with the latter again declaring Him - SWAYAM BHAGWAN, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead.References to Krishna can be found in almost all major scriptures, and there are profuse references to the famous personalities of that age in Vedic, Jain and Buddhist literature.
The earliest authentically dateable reference to Krishna is from the Chandogya Upanishad (3.17.6). Composed around 900 BCE, it mentions Vasudeva-Krishna as the son of Vasudev and Devaki and the disciple of Ghora Angirasa.
Jain and Buddhist literature also contains profuse references to Shri Krishna and Balaram! Since dating these literatures has been more or less accomplished accurately, they can be a valuable source of information.Jain Tradition from around 700 BCE, talks about a Vasudev and his elder brother Baladev in each cycle time. They take birth to rid the world of eveil and kill the Prati-vasudev.
Additionally, Krishna is also described as the cousin of the 22nd Tirthankar Neminath whose historicity is believed by most Jains today.
The 24th Tirthankar Lord Mahavir was born in 599 BCE, and since there is a considerable time gap between subsequent Tirthankars (ranging from centuries to millenia), we can safely assume Neminath and his contemporary Lord Krishna to be born much before this time.Yaska's Nirukta, (600 BCE), one of the greatest etymological Sanskrit dictionaries, contains a reference to the Syamantaka jewel, from the well known Puranic story about Krishna.

Buddhist literature records Krishna earliest in the Ghata-Jataka (300 BCE) as an ancient ruler of India and gives an account of His exploits that corresponds quite well with the Hindu tradition. There's a good record of the presence of Vasudev, Baladev, killing of Kamsa and their cousins the Kurus.
Mahaummagga Jataka (around 3rd century BCE), states that Jambavati was one of the consorts of Vasudeva Kanha which matches with the description from the Bhagavatam.
Around 150 BCE, Patanjali in his Mahabhashya praises Krishna and Samkarshan (Balrama) and describes dramatic performances representing the killing of Kamsa by Vasudev (Krishna-Kamsopacharam).

Indus-Saraswati Evidence for Krishna; The Indus-Saraswati artifacts, present an enchanting picture when we co-relate them with events or personalities mentioned in the Vedic scriptures. there are seals which have been identified with the Yogi Shiva, Mother Goddess, the Holy Bull, (maybe) Emperor Bharat, Rishabh-dev etc.. Let's see if there exist any relics that can point to a knowledge of Krishna as well!
A steatite tablet which was unearthed from Mohanjodaro in 1931, depicts a young boy uprooting two trees from which are emerging two human figures. It has been considered an interesting archaeological finding for fixing the date of Krishna. Dr. E.J.H. Mackay, who did the excavation at Mohanjodaro compares this image with the Yamalarjuna episode and Prof. V.S. Agrawal has also accepted this identification. In this image, the young boy depicted could very well be Krishna and two beings emerging out of the trees, the two cursed Gandharvs Nalkubera & Manigriva, who had turned into Arjuna trees due to a curse and were liberated by Krishna.
This shows that the Indus(Sindh)-Saraswati people probably knew about Krishna?s exploits and stories related to Krishna. This lone finding may not substantiate to the date of Krishna but at the same time it cannot be ignored especially when another indirect evidence can be found in a related find. The Indus-Valley seals show an abundance of animal forms ranging from Unicorns to Bulls to Horses to Fish; but what is missing is the depiction of Fauna or Trees! However, interestingly, there is one particular type of tree and its leaves invariably found in all Indus sites - the Peepal leaves.
Now, in the 10th chapter of Srimad Bhagawad-Gita, Krishna says that amongst the trees he represents the Aswatha or Pipal, the ONLY leaf to be represented on ANY Indus Seal - the Pipal leaf, could be the representation of Krishna in His Non-anthropomorphic form!In the legend of Rishi Markandeya, there is even a mention of Krishna appearing in front of the rishi as a baby lying on a peepal leaf floating in the cosmic waters of dissolution of the World.
Evidence from Marine Archaeology;
Recent marine archaeological discoveries in the Gulf of Cambay, off the coast of Gujarat have revealed an entire submerged civilization which has been carbon-dated to somewhere around 7500 BCE!
The likelihood of this civilization being older to the Indus-Saraswati Civilization is huge and a possible link with the fabled kingdoms of yore, mentioned in Hindu scriptures, can not be denied. What can be reasonably linked to Krishna is the discovery of another submerged city close to the present city of Dwarka which is believed to be the ORIGINAL city of Krishna because of a plethora of archaeological findings matching the scriptural descriptions!! According to the Mahabharat, this city was built by the Architect-god Vishwakarma for Lord Krishna by reclaiming 12 Yojans of land from sea, on the westernmost shore of Saurashtra. The city had six well-organized sectors, residential and commercial zones, wide roads, plazas, palaces and many public utilities alongwith a magnificent sea harbour.
The general layout of the city discovered below the Sea agrees REMARKABLY with the descriptions from the texts!! The immense foundations of the walls also support the belief that land was reclaimed from the Sea. Interestingly, scriptures talk about a kind of a PASSPORT system in Dwarka. Its citizens were issued a clay seal with a mythical three-headed-animal (the Greek Cerberus?!?) which had to be presented when they entered or left the massive gates. Interestingly, this seal of Dwarka has been found in the underwater ruins of the city!!
There are numerous other direct and indirect evidences supporting the knowledge and worship of Krishna around the 1st millennium BCE.
A 800 B?E cave painting in Mirzapur, Uttar Pradesh, shows a horse-charioteer about to hurl a wheel on another figure. This episode can potentially be identified as Krishna getting ready to hurl the chariot-wheel on Bhishma-Pitamah from the Mahabharat War!!
Worship of Krishna, in the form of Vasudev can also be traced to as early as 4th century BCE surprisingly, with Greek connection!
The Greek emperor ALEXANDER?s career more or less came to a halt after his brief encounter with the king of the Indus region, PORUS/Parvateshwar. The Greeks however, had some success ruling as kings in north-western cities such as the one in Taxila/Takshila. They exchanged ambassadors with Indian kings and one such ambassador was Heliodorus who was sent from Taxila to the court of King Bhagabhadra at Videsha (Besnagar, central India).Interestingly, this guy, has left the FIRST historical record of a Greek becoming the devotee of an Indian God, Shri Krishna!On his visit to Vidisha, Heliodorus erected a Garud-pillar in the honor of his 'God of Gods' Krishna which is one of the earliest direct archaeological evidence of Krishna-consciousness in this part of the world!

This Garuda-column of Vasudev (Krishna),
The God of gods,
Was erected here by Heliodorus,
A worshipper of Vishnu,
The son of Dion, and Inhabitant of Taxila,
Who came as the Greek ambassador,
From the Great King Antialkidas,
To King Kashiputra Bhagabhadra, the Savior,
Then reigning prosperously in the fourteenth year of his kingship.
Historians and scholars have recognized Heliodorus as the first western convert to the principles of Vaishnavism!!

The evidence for Krishna-Balaram worship can also be seen from the stone graffiti of Chilas cave in Western Pakistan, paleographically datable to the 2nd century BCE again. Here, Krishna & Balaram are engraved on the rocks and the names engraved beneath the images are Vasudev and Samkarshan respectively.
The coin found and the graffiti throw light on the hero worship in the northwestern region of the sub-continent. In the 1st century BCE, there is also evidence of worship of FIVE Vrishni heroes - Krishna, Balaram, Pradyumna (Krishna's son), Samba (Krishna's second son) and Aniruddh (Krishna's grandson).
An inscription from a Mora well, 11 kms west of Mathura records the construction of a stone temple by a royal woman, named Tosho, in the honour of Bhagavatam Panchaviranam or Five heroes of the Vrishini clan.
Astrological Evidence for dating Krishna;
Based on the astrological details given in various scriptures, many scholars have tried to identify the birth year of Krishna.
Dr Narhari Achar, professor of physics at the University of Memphis, Tennessee, has dated the Mahabharat war using astronomy and calls it the most authentic historical document in human civilizational history.
There are more than 140 astronomical references in the Mahabharat which have been used by Dr. Achar to feed reference points into the path-breaking Planetarium software (used by NASA to launch satellites for probe missions). Through the help of this software, he has placed the titanic clash between Pandavs and Kauravs in the year 3067 BCE.
Using the same software, Dr Achar places the year of Krishna?s birth at 3112 BCE. The astrological references point to a situation so unique (such as three eclipses repeating after 36 years) that they have only occurred once in last 10,000 years!!
Another professor, Dr. P.V. Vartak, has however come up with the possible date of 5561 BCE based on his interpretation of astronomical Tithis and positions described for the Nakshatras.
The Ancient Literature, Archaeological specimens (terrestrial as well as marine), and Astrological references all point towards a particular time period for the presence of Krishna. We may not have the exact date for Krishna's appearance on Earth, but these evidences narrow it down to at least a tangible time-frame in our history. Through the analysis of all the above data shared with you, the most probable period of Krishna's stay on Earth would be 3300-3100 BCE.
And it is a credit to the remarkable resilience of the Oral and Cultural traditions of our country that even after 5000 years, the memory of Krishna is still alive and throbbing in the Hearts and Minds of a Billion people.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali madad.
I wish some member to post post cardinal farman of Hz Ali or khutba e bayan where he claimed n stated n hinted himself as God as first person
And below it place words spoken by Krishna as first person calling him self as God.
Just match the word by word both the saying and common sense will say it is the SAME person,genetics speaking out marginally in different word.
Bottom line message is the same. It was once posted by Shiraz Virani in this forum.
ALI was always there the word Ali+lah= Allah came much later.1+0=1.
No rocket science needed.
Just rational sense, acceptance and faith.( this line can many many life cycles for humanity)
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rama - History behind the Legend.

Aum Namah Raghukul-shiromani Kaushalya-nandan Dashrath-putra Shri Raam. (I bow to Lord Rama, The Son-of Dashrath, Born-of-Kaushalya, Scion-of-the-Raghu clan)

The primary source of life and journey of Shri Raam is the epic Ramayana composed by Maharishi Valmiki. The learned sage wanted to write an epic that would serve as an inspiration for generations to come, and highlight the ideals of human behavior in various roles assigned by the society.

Devarishi Narad, the spiritual mendicant of the Heavens, suggested to him to write about the life and times of Shri Raam, the doyen of the Suryavanshi clan and the most beneficient ruler the land had ever seen.

This acknowledgement is mentioned in the Valmiki Ramayan itself that the story was based on an actual historical figure. Ramayan itself declares that it belongs to the genre of Itihasa (History) and the only other two sacred books in that genre are the Mahabharat and the Harivamsha.

Other Literary Evidence for Rama
Besides Valmiki Ramayan (4th century BCE), many other scriptures also attest to Shri Raam's existence. Vishnu Puraan declares Rama as Lord Vishnu's seventh incarnation, and the Bhagavat Puraan, recounts the story of Lord Rama in the 9th Skanda and counts him amongst the 24 major incarnations of the Vishnu Tattva.

Mahabharat also mentions the story of Rama in the Aranyak Parva, Dron Parva and the Raam-opakhyan where its is narrated to the eldest Pandav, Yuddhishthir. Shri Raam Avatar also finds place in the Harivansh and the Agni Puraan. Not only these scriptures from Hindu literature, but Buddhist and Jain texts also record the story of Rama and mention it in their own respective styles:

In Buddhism, Ramayan is present in the form of Dasarath Jatak, Dasrath Kathanak and Anamak Jatak, the first of which was composed in the 2nd century BCE. This version talks of Rama and Sita as siblings (which is a common symbolic imagery in early Buddhist literature to denote purity of a dynasty).

In Jain literature, Ramayan exists as the Padma Charita, Charitra Puran, Padmachariyam etc. where, Rama, Lakshman and Ravan represent the Baladev, Vasudev and Prati-vasudev concepts of Jain mythology respectively. Keepin with the Jain tradition of non-violence, it is Lakshman who kills Ravan and due to the use of violence, both go to hell while Lord Rama (known as Padma) goes back to heaven.

All these unrelated sources chronicling the life of Rama can not be false or fake.. There has to be some reason that ALL these diverse traditions decided to write about Shri Raam and share His life story! However, even with all this literary evidence, we do not have much archaeologically to help us.
We are currently in the Kaliyuga of the 28th YUGA CYCLE of the 51 st Day of Brahma. Hence Lord Rama was born not just Two Yugs ago but TWO YUGS plus THREE CHATUR-YUGS before present!This is why digging for archaeological data to corroborate the existence of Shri Raam would be futile. There is no way we could find any man-made artifacts after millenia as the scriptures put Shri Raam's period to be 18 million years ago! Even if we consider this duration to be in Deva Years, it comes to more than 40,000 years.
For the same reason, 7323 BCE or 5114 BCE as the birth years of Shri Raam can not be correct. Even though the dates were arrived at through a thorough analysis of Lord Rama's birth charts and have a very sound basis but based on what scriptures say, one has to make a correction in them.

The analyses done by Prof. Vartak and Pushkar Bhatnagar show that at a certain point in time, the planetary configuration mentioned at the time of Lord Rama's birth did indeed exist and thus, the numerous astrological references in the Ramayan are not imaginary but refer to actual points in time.
A solution to the apparent mismatch of dates can be found if we realize that because of a phenomenon known as the 'Precession of Equinoxes', stars as visualized from Earth, regain the same positions every 26,000 years! Hence, this particular permutation of stars could belong to 5114 BCE + 26,000 or 26,000 years before that or the similar period before that or the one before and so on and so forth.What is amazing is that even today the places related to Lord Rama, the stories, the Geographical co-ordinates of the cities mentioned etc. are still remembered in the Hindu tradition! Therefore, what we can still do is track and analyze this GEOGRAPHICAL evidence in the literary masterpiece of Ramayan and find out if they help.

Numerous versions of Ramayan exist throughout the length and the breadth of the country and even outside its boundaries but the oldest of these is the Valmiki Ramayan and for our analysis, we will stick to the original as it is the most ancient and accurate one.

To begin with a very interesting anachronism mentioned in this version of the Ramayan. Sundar Kanda [4.27.12] states that Hanuman, on entering Lanka, sees FOUR-TUSKED elephants guarding the palaces of Ravan. These elephants are tall and imposing and have been trained to protect Lanka from invaders. A similar account is given by Trijata, the ogress guarding Sita ji in Chapter 27 of the same Kanda when she dreams of Lord Rama coming to Sita's rescue riding an elephant high as a hill and bearing four-tusks.

So what is so special about these accounts?? Well, fossil remains show that there were many steps in the evolution of the 'Modern Elephant' and there DID exist four-tusked ancestors of elephants in various shapes and sizes such as Trilophodon, Tetralophodon, Gomphotherium etc that survived from roughly 20 million years ago to 4 million years before present! How in the world could Rishi Valmiki have known about the four-tusked ancestors of the modern elephant unless he had seen them himself or was told about them by Narad?
This apparent anachronism, though not rock-solid evidence, is yet another point that puts us in a time frame closer to what the scriptures say. Another such account comes from the Yuddha Kaand of Ramayan [Verse 4.114] that mentions the moat around Lankapuri to be teeming with crocodiles, Makars, whales and Timingilas.

Geographical Evidence from Valmiki Ramayan

Ramayan (Travels of Rama) itself indicates a Geographical journey. The story begins in Ayodhya (The-Unconquerable-City), the center of power for the ruling Suryavanshi/Solar Dynasty kings.
Shri Raam's mother Kaushalya was from the kingdom called Koshala, which corresponds to the state of Chattisgarh of today. Sumitra was from Magadh (Bihar) while Kaikeyi was from above Gandhar, the kingdom called Kaikeya which is today's Waziristan.
The journey of Lord Rama to recover Sita covers the length and breadth of the country and Valmiki Ramayan is extremely correct Geographically.

Major Kingdoms of the sub-continent in Ramayan Times

The authenticity of Geography right from Gandhar to Sri Lanka can not be the result of imagination!
Before being judgmental, we should remember that this was in a time when the modern means of transport/communication/internet etc. were not available. It has to be based on actual witnessing of these places by either the author or the one narrating the story to him, who in this case was Devarishi Narad.

Sites within India

To begin with Shri Raam's birthplace Ayodhya which although in dispute because of the political battle centered around it, can still yield a lot of information.
Did an ancient temple exist at the disputed site in Ayodhya? Indeed, before the demolition of Babri Masjid, there had been excavations around the temple precinct which gave indications of not one but many older temple foundations existing there.

The Imperial Gazetteer of Faizabad (1881) confirms the construction of three Moghul mosques at Ayodhya on the site of three celebrated shrines: Janmasthan, Swargadwar and Treta-ka-Thakur. Archaeological Survey of India tells us that Mir Khan (on Babar's orders) built the mosque at Janmasthan using many of its columns. The other two mosques were built later by Aurangzeb who was one step ahead of Babar in his zealotry.

From 1975 to 1980, the Archaeological Survey of India had under the guidance of Prof. B.B. Lal, unearthed (literally) as many as 20 black stone pillars, 16 of which formed the base of the 'Janmasthan Masjid' as it was called colloquially even then. The pillars were much bigger in size than those of the mosque and clearly belonged to a much more grand structure.
On further stratigraphic and other evidence, Prof. Lal also found a door-jamb carved with Hindu icons and decorative motifs of yakshas, yakshis, kirtimukhas, purnaghattas, double lotus flowers etc.
Excavation was resumed on July 2, 1992 by S.P. Gupta, Y.D. Sharma, K.M. Srivastava and other senior archaeologists barely six months before the demolition. Prof. Lal's southern trenches had missed a huge pit with 40 and odd sculptures just by 10 to 12 feet discovered by the team even though he DID get the pillar bases which others did not get later.
The team found artifacts ranging from the 1st through the 12th century CE! These findings included religious sculpture, terracotta images from the Kushan period (100-300 CE) and a statue of Lord Vishnu. They concluded that these and other fragments such as the amakalas, or the cogged-wheel crown of the spire belonged to a temple of the North Indian Nagara style of Temple architecture (900-1200 CE).The most important finding is what is known as the Hari-Vishnu Inscription written in 12th century CE Devanagari script. Line 15 of this inscription clearly tells us that -A beautiful temple of Vishnu-Hari, was built with heaps of stones and beautified with a golden spire unparalleled by any other temple built by earlier kings. This wonderful temple was built in the temple-city of Ayodhya situated in Saketamandala.

Moving on, Sita ji was discovered by Janak in Mithila which now lies in Nepal. It forms a region shared by both India and Nepal and gives birth to the language known as Maithili. The place where the Goddess was found by Raja Janak in a furrow is known as Sitamarhi, and is still revered along with the nearby pond called the Janaki kund.
After their wedding, Shri Raam and Sita ji left for Ayodhya via Lumbini where we have an Ashoka Pillar from 249 BCE, with an inscription referring to the visits by both Rama and Buddha to Lumbini.
When they were exiled, Lord Rama, Lakshman and Sita went to Shringverpur in Uttar Pradesh where they crossed the River Ganga. They lived on the Chitrakut hill where Bharat met and pleaded for their return. Thereafter, the three wandered through Dandakaranya in Central India, described as a land of Rakshasas and tribals.

After spending some time there, they reached Nashik, near river Godavari, and the region throbs with sites related to the three Ayodhya-vasis. There is the place where they built their cottage known as Tapovan; Ramkund where Rama and Sita used to bathe, Lakshmankund, for the younger brother's bathing area, and several other caves associated with their lives in the forest.

The three then moved to Panchavati, near Nashik in Maharashtra, from where Ravan, with the help of his uncle Mareech, was successful in abducting Sita ji. On the way to Lanka from Panchavati, Ravan was attacked by Jatayu but died a martyr's death. The place where this happened is in Andhra Pradesh and has a beautiful temple dedicated to Shiva and Jatayu's sacrifice is recorded in the name of the place - Lepakshi which in Telugu means 'Rise, bird' referring to his soul leaving the body when he breathed his last in the lap of Shri Raam.
Sita ji dropped her valuables all along the way that were gathered by the Vanars below and Shri Raam and Lakshman found those when they reached Kishkindha, near modern Hampi, where they first met Hanuman and then Sugriv, the exiled King of the Vanars. This is a UNESCO World Heritage site and Sugriv is described to have lived at Mount Rishyamukha on the banks of river Pampa (Tungabhadra). Anjanadri, near Hospet, is believed to be the birthplace of Lord Hanuman (Anjaneya).

The Vanar army led by Shri Raam, Sugreev, and Jambvant then reached Rameshwaram, where they built a bridge to Lanka from Dhanushkodi on the Rameshwaram Island to Talaimannar in Sri Lanka. While parts of the RAMA-SETU are still visible, NASA had in the early part of this millenium photographed an underwater man-made bridge of shoals in the Palk Straits, connecting India to Lanka.

The existence of Rama Setu had already been confirmed by several foreign travelers including the Venetian traveller Marco Polo (1254-1324), and British cartographers who prepared maps of the area in 1747, 1788 and 1804. The then Manual of the Administration of Madras Presidency mentions both the names Adam’s Bridge and Rama Setu. It also says that the Setu was used for pedestrian traffic between India and Sri Lanka right until 1480 when a major cyclone destroyed it!!

Once Ravan had captured Sita ji, he brought her to the place today known as Weragantota in Lanka close to Mahiyangana town; and surprise the meaning of this name in the Sinhalese language is a 'landing place for aircrafts'!!

According to the depiction of Pushpak Viman (which Ravan had snatched from his half-brother Kuber), it resembled a huge peacock. In Sinhala it is called the Dhandu Monara (flying peacock) and it is believed that Ravan had an aircraft repair center at Gurulupotha where Sita ji was first brought and quite fittingly, the name means "parts of birds". Right next to it is the Sita Kottuwa jungle in which once stood the city of Lankapura.

Ashok Vatika is the garden where Ravan is supposed to have held Sita ji captive and this is in the area of Sita Eliya, close to the popular hill station Nuwara Eliya. The Sita Pokuna is a barren area atop the Hakgala Rock Jungle where Sita ji was kept captive and the Sita Amman Kovil (Temple) is located here.

About 50 Km from here is the Divrumpola Temple which is thought to be the place where Sita ji performed her ‘Agni Pariksha’. the name means 'a place for making a vow' and is seen inscribed in the moonstone guarding the Temple.

The summit of the mountain next to the Frotoft Tea Estate in Pussallawa is the place where Hanuman is believed to have first set his foot on Lanka! This mountain known as Pawala Malai stands between Ravan’s capital city and the Ashok Vatika.

The Sita tear pond is found en route by the chariot route, and is believed to have been formed by the tears of Sita devi. The forest is also colored with the famed Sita Flowers which are endemic to this area. The peculiarity of these flowers is the configuration of the petal’s, stamen and pistils, which resemble a human figure carrying a bow, and is said to represent Lord Rama.

Ella, a small mountain near Bandarawela, boasts of three locations linked to the Ramayan where, local legend dictates, Ravana hid Sita. First there is the Ravana Ella Cave situated in the massive Ella Rock. Then there is Ravana Ella Falls and a nearby pool bored out of the rock by the gushing waters. The tunnels in the Ravan cave believed to have served as a quick means of transport through the hills and also as secret passages.

The Kelani River is mentioned in the Valmiki Ramayan and Vibhishan’s palace was said to be on the banks of this river. Vibhishan is still considered one of the four guardian deities of Sri Lanka, and temples for Vibishan are found throughout Sri Lanka unlike that of Ravan.

Ravan, the Lord of Lanka, a mighty warrior, a learned pandit, the master of Three Worlds, the posessor of Amrit, was ultimately defeated by the hands of Shri Raam because in his hubris, he desired what belonged to the Supreme Lord Vishnu Himself.

He sacrificed the lives of his brother, his sons and his entire army just to pander to his ego. Despite all his knowledge and erudition, he was not able to get a grip on his desires and lust which ultimately led to his downfall.

Outside India, the millenia old story of Rama is still sung by people all over Asia.
China, collection of Jatak stories relating to various events of Ramayana, belonging to 251 AD were compiled by Kang Seng Hua based on the Buddhist texts mentioned earlier.

Kumardasa, who ruled Srilanka in 617 BCE wrote the text called ‘Janakiharan’ which is the oldest Sanskrit literature available in Sri lanka.

Oldest written version of Ramayana, in Nepal is from 1075 BCE.

Yama Zatdaw in Myanmar is considered the National epic and is a Burmese version of the story of Rama.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
We are currently in the Kaliyuga of the 28th YUGA CYCLE of the 51 st Day of Brahma. Hence Lord Rama was born not just Two Yugs ago but TWO YUGS plus THREE CHATUR-YUGS before present!This is why digging for archaeological data to corroborate the existence of Shri Raam would be futile. There is no way we could find any man-made artifacts after millenia as the scriptures put Shri Raam's period to be 18 million years ago! Even if we consider this duration to be in Deva Years, it comes to more than 40,000 years.
For the same reason, 7323 BCE or 5114 BCE as the birth years of Shri Raam can not be correct. Even though the dates were arrived at through a thorough analysis of Lord Rama's birth charts and have a very sound basis but based on what scriptures say, one has to make a correction in them.
This is not accurate based on scientific evidence. Below is an article highlighting the scientific basis of the existence of Sri Ram around 7000 years ago.

The Essence

From Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Bengal to Gujarat, everywhere people of India believe in the reality of Shri Ram’s existence and most of our festivals revolve around the events related to the life of Shri Ram. The events and places referred to in Ramayan represent our most ancient heritage, which has developed and got enriched subsequently during the eras of Lord Krishna, Mahatma Buddha, Mahavir Jain, Jesus Christ, Prophet Mohammed and Guru Nanak Dev.

The story of Shri Ram, when appreciated in its true perspective, would emerge as the biggest unifying factor for India and it establishes many ideals which we need to emulate today. He remains unparalleled as an ideal son, an ideal brother, an ideal warrior and an ideal king; that is why he is described as Maryada Purushottam Ram! He was a nationalist par excellence who left his kingdom to help the small kings located all over India to save their kingdoms from being usurped by wicked King Ravana of Sri Lanka and his relatives and devils like Khar, Dushan and Maarich representing him in India. Shri Ram moved from place to place to spread the message of unity by showing very high level of respect for the people from backward tribes and those considered untouchable. He embraced Guh Nishad who belonged to a lower caste; he gave a strong message against untouchability by eating with great affection jootha berries of Bhilni (Shabri). He sent his wife and children to be brought up and educated by Maharishi Valmiki who is stated to be Shudra but was a great scholar in the ancient world. Shri Ram tried and succeeded in establishing victory of good over evil. He helped rishis and munis in living a life of honor. He got the kingdoms of small noble kings restored to them and acted as the biggest unifying factor.

The astronomical dating of planetary references given in Valmiki Ramayan with corroborating archaeological, geological, oceanographic, geographic evidences, further supported by genealogical studies duly correlated with genome studies have established with a fair amount of certainty that Shri Ram was actually born more than 7000 year back. Therefore discovering the physical details relating to the life and times of Shri Ram would be much more difficult as destruction caused by floods, droughts, earthquakes, tectonic movements, tsunamis and wars etc is bound to be far greater. But should that stop our quest for learning more and more about our most ancient rich cultural heritage? As Indians, let us all take pride in the fact that Indian civilization is the most ancient civilization surviving on planet earth. It is certainly more than 10,000 years old and has been growing and developing indigenously.

http://serveveda.org/?p=87
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good article, much needed article I really thankful to provide all information abour lord Rama, however some participant including Kbhai does not believe that this is Kaliyug!!!
I have debated him before many time but every times he had gave the calculations of swami yukteshwar according him this yug is ..............! Satyug
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are numerous various stories of Lord Rama exists and they mention different dates and years but the oldest one is of Valmiki Ramayan. He mentioned FOUR TUSKED huge elephants. It looks like the story belong to Dinosour era. My personal opinion is that Lord Rama was born in between
5000 to 7000 years BC.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
Very good article, much needed article I really thankful to provide all information abour lord Rama, however some participant including Kbhai does not believe that this is Kaliyug!!!
I have debated him before many time but every times he had gave the calculations of swami yukteshwar according him this yug is ..............! Satyug



I consider KALYUG as age of machines. KAL means machine, like 'kalpurza'
(part of machine). Machines are over powering human beings and the day will come when machines will be out of control of human beings.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ancient Goddesses according to Hindu Mythology.

Aditi - Hindu Great Goddess, as the Woman Clothed with the Sun. Sun Goddess, Mother of all the Lights of Heaven. She gave birth to the twelve zodiacal spirits.

Ananta - Indian Serpent Queen. aka Sarparajni. She enveloped all gods during their death, sleeping between incarnations.

Banka-Mundi - Hunting Goddess of the Khoud. Merely uttering Her name made one fearless against jungle beasts.

Bardaichila - Assamese Storm Goddess.

Bentakumari - Assamese Water Goddess. First fish of the season was given to Her.

Bhasundara - Tibetan Goddess of Prosperity

Bhavani - Common name for Mother Goddess of India. Bestower of Existence. Evoked by women in labor, who burned perfume to honor Her.

Bisal-Mariamna - Shakti of Sunlight in Mysore. Symbolized by a brass pot full of water called the Kunna-Kannadi or 'eye mirror'. Into this pot are put pepper leaves and coconut flowers, a small metal mirror leans against it.

Budhi Pallien - Assamese Forest Goddess, appears as a tiger roving through the Indian jungle.

Chomo-Lung-Ma - Goddess Mother of the Universe, original name of Mt. Everest. One of the oldest Indian deities.

Devi - Dearly Beloved Goddess

Durga - the Queen Mother, Warrior Goddess, rode tigers into battle defending Her children, the gods.

Hudigamma - Hindu Mother Goddess served by eunuch priests dressed in women's clothes.

Indrani - Queen of the gods.

Ista Devata - Tantric Patroness of the Self. Individual Guardian Angel of the Enlightened Sage.

Kadru - Serpent Goddess, Mother of the Nagas, or Cobra people.

Kali - Black Earth Mother, Conqueror of Time, Goddess of fertility, death and regeneration. Dark Mother, Hindu triple Goddess of creation, preservation and destruction. Birth and Death Mother. Treasure house of Compassion, Giver of Life to the World. Her mantras brought into being the very things whose names She spoke for the first time, Originator of the creative word or Logos. A triple Goddess - Maiden, Mother, Crone. Lady of the Dead. The Ocean of Blood at the beginning and end of the world. Also known as Jagadamba.

Kauri - Indo-European Swan Goddess. Cowrie shell was sacred to Her.

Khon-Ma - Mother Earth, Ruler of All Spirits emanating from the Earth element.

Kundalini - Serpent Goddess representing the inner power of the human body

Kurukulla - Dravidian Goddess of Caverns.

Lakshmi - Goddess of fortune,wealth and abundance. Portrayed as a golden skinned woman sitting or standing on a lotus, Her symbol. Hindu Goddess of Sovereignty. Source of the divine drink Soma. aka Padma, Lady Lotus. Goddess of Beauty and Good Fortune.

Manasa-Devi - Serpent Goddess of Bengal, identified with the Moon, bearing the Moons's magic name Mana.

Marici - Buddhist Diamond Sow, Great Goddess seated on a lotus surrounded by 7 pigs. Glorious One. Sun of Happiness.

Maya - Virgin aspect of the triple Hindu Goddess, symbolized by a Spider, spinner of magic, fate and earthly appearances. The spider's web was likened to the Wheel of Fate and the spider to the Goddess as a Spinner, sitting at the hub of Her Wheel. Mother of the Enlightened One, Buddha. Her colors were white, red and black. Hawthorne, Her tree.

Nanda Devi - Blessed Goddess. Mountain Mother Who gave birth to the Ganges. Nanda Devi is one of the Holiest Mountains of the Himalayan chain.

Parvati - Maiden aspect of Kali. Daughter of the Mountain. Shiva's bride. Daughter of Heaven. Also known by Maya, Sati, Durga, Shakti, Privithi. Dark and colorful, ornate and mysterious. The richness of hues in Her attire as well as Her jewels symbolize Her power. She lifts Her veil to reveal Her beauty, shining like the Sun rising over the mountain of Anapurna. The cocoon, butterfly and the karmic golden wheel reflect Her deep connection with life and death, cause and effect, and transformation.

Prajnaparamita - Personification of Wisdom

Prakriti - Nature. Sanskrit title of Kali as female Holy Trinity, commanding the Gunas, the white, red and black threads of Creation, Preservation and Destruction. She embodied past, present, future; earth, sea, sky; youth, maturity, age.

Privithi - Very ancient Earth Mother.

SaraÊ Kali - Queen Kali, Mother Goddess of the gypsies. The Mother, the Woman, the Sister, the Queen, the source of all Romany blood. Queen of Heaven and Earth.

Sarama - Vedic Bitch Goddess, Mother of the brindled Dogs of Yama. The Huntress.

Saranyu - Goddess Who gave birth to all animals, Mother of all Creatures. Vedic Mare Goddess, Mother of the Centaurs.

Sarasvati - White skinned Goddess of poetry, music, science and learning as well as all creative arts. Inventor of the Sanscrit language. She wears a crescent moon on her brow and rides a swan or a peacock, or is seated on a lotus. The Flowing One. Inventor of all the arts of civilization: music, letters, mathematics, calendars, magic, the Vedas and all other branches of learning. Ancient River Goddess. Queen of Heaven. Mother of Waters. aka Ganga. Originally a River Goddess, She originated in the Ocean. Great culinary Goddess, She invented Soma, or Amrita (drink of bliss). Independent of nature. Goddess of sensual love, creativity, beauty, art and music. Goddess of learning and teaching

Savitri - Hindu Mother of Civilization, She Who brought forth music and literature, rhythm, time, measurements, day and night, memory, conquest, victory and yoga.

Shakti - Tantric title of the Great Goddess. Cosmic Energy. The Tantras say the female principle antedates and includes the male principle and this female principle is the Supreme Divinity. Tantric doctrine says mortal women are life itself, and Goddess-like, because they embody the principle of Shakti. The series of Universes appear and disappear with the opening and shutting of her eyes. (from the Lalita Sahasranamam) Final union with Shakti occurred at the moment of Death, according to Tantric mystics.

Shasti - Bengali Feline Goddess, depicted riding a cat. Goddess of childbirth and Protectress of Children.

Shitala - Protectress against small pox. Mothers appealed to Her for help for their children.

Sita - Furrow, the Goddess Earth as the wife of Rama (Krishna).

Smashana-Kali - Kali Ma as the Goddess of cremation grounds and other places of Death. Her yantra was an 8 petaled lotus with multiple repetitions of the inverted triangle. The meaning was Rebirth following Death. Her priestesses, called dakinis, arranged funerals and tended the dying.

Tara - Pre-Vedic Savior Goddess, known from India to Ireland. Indo-European primal Goddess Earth. An extremely ancient festival held annually at Athens was named after Her, Taramata (Mother Tara) nicknamed The Rioting because of its wild orgiastic customs. The sacred grove of Tara in Ireland was the Goddess's genital shrine. In India, Tara is called The Most Revered of the old pre-vedic Goddesses. Wine is sacred to Her. Goddess of Compassion, The Diamond Sow. Diamonds are Her sacred stone. Tibetan Buddhist Great Mother. She is a Boddhisattva, an enlightened One who has vowed to incarnate until all beings have attained enlightenment. She also vowed to incarnate only as a female. She governs the Underworld, the Earth and the Heavens, birth, death and regeneration, love and war, the seasons, all that lives and grows, the Moon cycles. Green Tara is Her Nature-related aspect. Typically She is seen as a slender and beautiful woman of white complexion, long golden hair and blue eyes. She can also appear as red, black or dark blue. Her animals are the sow, mare, owl and raven. Goddess of spiritual transformation. When worshiping Tara, recognize all you see as Her body, made of green light, all you hear is Her divine speech, and all your thoughts as Her divine wisdom. Every molecule of air is Her divine energy and when you lie down, your head rests in Her lap. More on Tara

Uma - The Golden Goddess, personifying light and beauty. Daughter of the Mountains, Patroness of yogic ascetism. Kali's Crone aspect. aka Prisni, Mother of the Dark Season, Daughter of Heaven. Mother Death.

Usha - Vedic Goddess of the Dawn.
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
There are numerous various stories of Lord Rama exists and they mention different dates and years but the oldest one is of Valmiki Ramayan. He mentioned FOUR TUSKED huge elephants. It looks like the story belong to Dinosour era. My personal opinion is that Lord Rama was born in between
5000 to 7000 years BC.


According to Ismaili Ginans, Lord Rama was born for about 1 million years ago, and he was the first mordern human( Homo Sapiens ).
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]I consider KALYUG as age of machines. KAL means machine, like 'kalpurza'
(part of machine). Machines are over powering human beings and the day will come when machines will be out of control of human beings.[quote]

Kaliyug litteraly means Black age or DARK AGE as Kali means Black.


Last edited by ismaili103 on Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:

According to Ismaili Ginans, Lord Rama was born for about 1 million years ago, and he was the first mordern human( Homo Sapiens ).

Are you suggesting then that Phelaaj who lived during the Satya Yug was an animal?
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
ismaili103 wrote:

According to Ismaili Ginans, Lord Rama was born for about 1 million years ago, and he was the first mordern human( Homo Sapiens ).

Are you suggesting then that Phelaaj who lived during the Satya Yug was an animal?


Pehlaaj could be animal because he born even before Vaman Avatar ( The First Homo Erectus ( Missing Link)Avatar.

Its interesting that demon who wants to kill pehlaaj was Haranakans ( Literally mean " Destroyer of Deer"), so pehlaaj could be Deer or anyother animal.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
Pehlaaj could be animal because he born even before Vaman Avatar ( The First Homo Erectus ( Missing Link)Avatar.

Its interesting that demon who wants to kill pehlaaj was Haranakans ( Literally mean " Destroyer of Deer"), so pehlaaj could be Deer or anyother animal.
MSMS once told a very sevadari murid that he was like Pahelaaj who saved many souls.

There is a Ginan describing the circumstances of Pahelaaj. In it there is mention of astrologers! In fact humanity was far advanced during that time. It can be accessed at:

Translation of Pahelaj Ni Mata e Kunvar
http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/31379

In the Ginan Pahelaa Karta Jug Ma(n)he Shah ne http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22960

Pir Sadardeen compares Treta Jug to silver and Kal Jug to clay when comparing the state of worship symbolized by Ghat Paat between the two eras.
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is a Ginan describing the circumstances of Pahelaaj. In it there is mention of astrologers! In fact humanity was far advanced during that time. It can be accessed at:


So you mean there were humans for about 3 million years ago at the time of Imam Narsinh. Not only according to the Ginans its impossible, but according to the modern discoveries its impossible because the oldest human fossil found was 2 million years old and mankind is started from Imam Vaman for about 2.2 million years ago.

About the astrologers, in kaliyug highest form of creation are Humans( Ashraful makhlukat) thats why Imamat is in modern Human and we have astrologers, scientist all in humans, so its possible that When Imamat was in Male Lion( Narsinh) then at that time highest creation was also mammals, so they have astrolgers in Mammals, thats my understanding.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The nature of time:
YUGA
According to Hindu system, the cosmos passes through cycles within cycles for all eternity. The basic cycle is the kalpa, a "day of Brahma", or 4,320 Billion earthly years. His night is of equal length. 360 such days and nights constitute a "year of Brahma" and his life is 100 such years long. The largest cycle is therefore 311, 040,000 Billion years long, after which the whole universe returns to the ineffable world-spirit, until another creator god is evolved .
In each cosmic day the god creates the universe and again absorbs it. During the cosmic night he sleeps, and the whole universe is gathered up into his body, where it remains as a potentiality. Within each kalpa are fourteen manvantaras, or secondary cycles, each lasting 306,720,000 years, with long intervals between them. In these periods the world is recreated, and a new Manu appears, as the progenitor of the human race. We are now in the seventh manvantara of the kalpa.
Each manvantara contains 71 Mahayugas, or aeons, of which a thousand form the kalpa. Each mahayuga is in turn divided into four yugas or ages, called Krita, Treta, Dvapara and Kali. Their lengths are respectively 4800, 3600, 2400 and 1200 "years of the gods," each of which equals 360 human years. Each yuga represents a progressive decline in piety, morality, strength, stature, longevity and happiness. We are at present in the Kali-yuga, which began, according to tradition, in 3102 BCE, believed to be the year of the Mahabharata War.
The end of the Kaliyuga is marked by confusion of classes, the overthrow of the established standards, the cessation of all religious rites, and the rule of cruel and alien kings. Soon after this the world is destroyed by flood and fire. Most medieval texts state that the cosmic dissolution occurs only after the last cycle of the kalpa, and that the transition from one aeon to the next takes place rapidly and calmly.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
So you mean there were humans for about 3 million years ago at the time of Imam Narsinh. Not only according to the Ginans its impossible, but according to the modern discoveries its impossible because the oldest human fossil found was 2 million years old and mankind is started from Imam Vaman for about 2.2 million years ago.

About the astrologers, in kaliyug highest form of creation are Humans( Ashraful makhlukat) thats why Imamat is in modern Human and we have astrologers, scientist all in humans, so its possible that When Imamat was in Male Lion( Narsinh) then at that time highest creation was also mammals, so they have astrolgers in Mammals, thats my understanding.

No mammals apart from humans have the capability of astrology or the advanced nature of worship as mentioned by Pir Sadardeen.. From my understnding the narrative of Das Avtaar is not a reflection or explanation of the theory of evolution. It is a coincidence that the Avtaars appeared in forms mirroring the story of evolution, perhaps it was the way of the Divine to point to the veracity of the theory of evolution.

The narrative of Das Avtaar follows Swami Sri Yuksheswar's theory of cyclical time as explained at:

time period of jugs and avatar
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4616&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

The theory explains the advanced state of worship during the Karta Yuga, the human nature of Pahelaaj and the appearance of Sri Ram around 5000BC.

There is an interesting book explaining the theory of Yugas and a different perspective of history than what we have conventionally accepted.

The introduction of the book can be accessed online at:

http://www.crystalclarity.com/content.php?type=intro&code=BTY
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Each manvantara contains 71 Mahayugas, or aeons, of which a thousand form the kalpa. Each mahayuga is in turn divided into four yugas or ages, called Krita, Treta, Dvapara and Kali. Their lengths are respectively 4800, 3600, 2400 and 1200 "years of the gods," each of which equals 360 human years. Each yuga represents a progressive decline in piety, morality, strength, stature, longevity and happiness. We are at present in the Kali-yuga, which began, according to tradition, in 3102 BCE, believed to be the year of the Mahabharata War.
You are contradicting yourself. You said earlier that Sri Raam appeared around 5000 BC to 7000BC. The time farme of 3600 X 360 does not accord with that!

According to Swami Yuketshwars theory that I alluded to in my previous post, we are not in Kali Yuga but have advanced to the ascending Duapur Yuga.

Prince Sadruddin in one of his speeches http://ismaili.net/sadru/960926.html , said:

"Creation is sacred. Life and nature need not be exploited to instill fear in our hearts. For the Hindus, we have entered the Kali Yuga, the dark age, while St. John's Apocalypse evokes the divine judgement for human sins through his vision of the final destruction of the earth. Though there is cause for apocalyptic rhetoric in the chemical and radioactive pollution of soil and water and the depletion of the ozone layer, the problem with cyclical or terminal Apocalypses is that they deeply imprint the mind with negative and destructive behaviour patterns. One is escapism: "God will judge, but we are the faithful who will escape. And really this isn't our home, anyway, since heaven is our kingdom". There is an "us/them" dilemma here, with a judgement on the others. What we need to do is formulate a language that draws people back into community and responsibility. Apocalyptic visions point the other way."

He is saying that the belief about today being Kali Yuga the dark age is a Hindu belief and not Ismaili. To think of our time as being a dark age can imprint negative and destructive patterns in our thinking. It is not healthy to think that way.

On the other hand if we think of being in Duapura Yuga ascending towards Satya Yuga, it engenders a positive and optimistic outlook.
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No mammals apart from humans have the capability of astrology or the advanced nature of worship as mentioned by Pir Sadardeen.


That is what I am saying that, at that time there were no human and highest form of creation was Mammals thats why they had intellectual and knowledge. Now highest form of creation is human that why we have intellectual and that why we can became doctor, engineer, astrologer. The animals now we see are those who are in the cycle of Lakh Chorasi because of there wrong deeds.

Quote:
The theory explains the advanced state of worship during the Karta Yuga, the human nature of Pahelaaj and the appearance of Sri Ram around 5000BC.


But Karim bhai, what about the theory of Pir's , we cannot compare Swami's theory with Pir's theory.

I mean its just like that, you are saying Theory given by the human( Swami) is better than Theory given by the Creator( Pir) himself.

And according to the Pir, dwapur jug started for about 1.3 million years ago and Shri Raam born in dwapur jug, so how its possible that Raam born in 5000 BC.
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