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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Raagas (Raag) of Ginans
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Raagas (Raag) of Ginans

 
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5907

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:21 am    Post subject: Raagas (Raag) of Ginans Reply with quote

In some of the manuscripts that we have in the Heritage collection, the Raag of the Ginan or Granth is written beside the title.

The Raag of a ginan creates spiritual vibration and is linked to the time of the day it has to be used. Here are some of the Raag and their timing:

Morning: Bhairav, Bhairavi, Ramkali, Jogia, Bilashkani Todi,

Afternoon: Brindavani Sarang, Shudda Sarang, Multani, Bhimpalas

Evening: Desh, yaman, Puriya, Kedar, Jayjaywanti

Night: Bhagesri, Maand, Bhihag, Darbari, Malkauns

If you know the name of the Raag of a particular Ginan, add it in this section.

Anant Akharo (Ashaji) is recited in Raag Maand

Sakhee maree Atamana Odhaar; Raah Bhimpalas

Aee Rahem Rahemaan: Raag Kaafi

Ab Teree Mahobat Laagee: Raag Kaalinda

Saahebji Tu(n) More Man Bhaave: Raag Yaman

Shah Saras Gur Aapanaa: raag Bhairwi
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erumsuleman



Joined: 24 Dec 2014
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about if i send you multiple ginans with their raag.My grandfather ALIJAH NOORALLAH SIR has been reciting ginans over 50 years and he his known all over the world for his CD mashal-e-noor. Me and my grandfather have been discussing the raag issue almost form 2 years. He has all the original raags.I could even send the audio of his recitation of some ginans if you want.

My grandfather too visited sindh and collected many ginans with their original raag.For example the ginan penjho saheb na samriyen is an unpublished ginan and my grandfather learned this ginan form ALIJAH WALI who was at the age of 120 at that time.
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have also seen some ginans on these Raagas!
Shikharini, Jaantodi and Malhari.
I will post these ginans when I found the texts.

Admin,
As a die hard ginans lover I will appreciate if you kindly share the Raagas information with me along with Suleman, I am very much in touch with him too.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erumsuleman yaa ali madad.

Do you know sir sulaiman in garden karachi, who shared many useful info about rohaniyat and meditation on 4shared.com?

Just curious
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5907

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
I have also seen some ginans on these Raagas!
Shikharini, Jaantodi and Malhari.
I will post these ginans when I found the texts..


I am excited that we will be all together pulling our resources to complete this work left half way due to the untimely death of Mukhi Lajlji Devraj in 1930 at age 88.
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sameernoorani5



Joined: 26 Jul 2015
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RAGA OF SOME GINANS.
Aad thaki eek sunna nipaya..... ( Raga Pilu )
Nawroj na din suhamana........( Raga Bhairavi )
Amey Saheb saathey sahel kida...( Raga Bhairavi )
Saheb ji tu(n) morey mon bhavey... ( Raga Eemon )
U(n)charey kot bahu vechana..... ( Raga Sindhura )
Til baar tulina khaney ki dhaar... ( Raga Kalingra )
Hu(n) rey piyaasi...... ( Raga Bhairavi )
Hunspuri nagari mah(n)he mandhawo... ( Raga Bhairavi )
Aaj aanand pamiya..............( Raga Kafi )
Satgur maliya munney aaj.....( Raga Kafi )
Marna hai rey zarur jug ........( Raga Kafi )
Mostly Sayyidah Imam Begums's ginans are Raga Kafi.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard that Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah was asked about which Ragas are the right one and at that time he said Junagadh.

Junagadh Ragas were preserved when the original people from Junagadh moved to Africa and many established themselves in Zanzibar, Dar es Salam and Mombasa in the early 1,800s' and 1,900s'. For Decades Junagadh ragas were followed in Mombasa while they were loosing ground to new ragas in Junagadh itself.

My father (born 1920) told me he used to recite and teach ginans in Junagadh ragas before he left Mombasa in 1952.

I also heard that the Ragas of Alijah Jafar Sadiq, at least some of them, were different from the original Ragas unfortunately.

All this of course needs more research.

For example the ginan Kalpat Jalpat Maya is sung in at least 2 different ragas if not 3 ragas but the original one is the same as the one of ginan Tun hi Gur Tun hi Nar.

Admin
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5907

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erumsuleman wrote:

As far as the tradition of junagadh is concerned it is claimed by the residents of gujraat in india that imam Sultan mohd shah said that follow the raags of wazir ismaili ganji. They are original and they come from heaven.


Yes I have heard this.

We should get hold of our elders and as Hazar Imam said, record their history. There is a lot to learn.

I remember one such elder who told mearound 1985 that when he was an 8 years old kid (very early 1900s') , he was sitting at the door of Zanzibar JK and a very old person came and sat beside him. He told him that you could accomplish miracles by singing ginans in the right ragas. So the kid asked like what?

The old man said, see there is no clouds in the sky but a ginan can make rain. He started singing the ginan and within a couple of minutes very higs came and the clouds gathered from nowhere. As he recited the last verse, it started raining.

I am sad I did not tape the story from his own recollection. Now it is too late.
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sameernoorani5



Joined: 26 Jul 2015
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erumsuleman wrote:
Dear sameernoorani please state from where does u got the raags of the ginan that u have posted.

I am creating pdf file for all ginans and granths and for your kind information the ginan aad thaki ek sun nipaya is recited with jog raag all over the sindh as well in many cities of india.

"LATE SIR JAAFAR SADIQ" the brother of "MUKHI MEHDI" OF THE DARKHAN JAMATKHAN GARDEN KARACH PAKISTAN also taught this ginan in the jog raag around 70 years back

I will also put the traditional raags of all the ginans



I heard from Dr. Ghullam Hyder Alidina Saheb. He researched on the Raags of ginans. I have great respect for sir Jafer Sadiq, Mukhi Mahdi saheb and your grandpa sir Noorullah. Ginan raags of interior Sindh are some what different from the raags of Hyderabad Sindh and Hyderabadi raags are mostly different from Karachi's raags. I heard from Late Alwaiz Abu Ali saheb that Karachiwalas have changed the original raags.
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sameernoorani5



Joined: 26 Jul 2015
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RAGA MALHAR;

Raga Malhar is so powerful that when sung with devotion and concentration can induce rain. There are various variants of Malhar gaiki. In Sindh it is called Megh Malhar. The famous artists who used to sing Malhar effectively were
Tansen, his son Bilas Khan, Baiju Bawara, Miyan Bakhshu, Surat sen, Mira bai and so on.
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sameernoorani5



Joined: 26 Jul 2015
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did any of our pirs or syeds ever visited KASHI/MATHURA?
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erumsuleman



Joined: 24 Dec 2014
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If any body has recordings of ginans of wazir ismaili ganji then please report
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erumsuleman wrote:
If any body has recordings of ginans of wazir ismaili ganji then please report



Sorry Erum at time of Wazir Gangji Saheb there weren't any tape recorders.
After Wazir saheb the ragas of ginans have been distorted.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some Ragas mentionned by Zawahir Noorali in Notes on Ginan-e-Sharif, she compiled in Karachi, 1976

Pir Shams, Das Avatar: Raag Khedaro
Pir Sadardin, Sat Swarag na kai khuliya dwaar: Raag Prabati
Abi Abi Antar: Raag Bhor
Jiatu Lal: Raag Samuri
Ghat Lokanji: Raag Sakar Danasri
Sacho to Alakh Nirinjan: Raag Samuri
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going through manuscript HS0099 of the Heritage Society collection, where the raagas of several works are indicated and was verifying the spelling of one of the raagas. I came to an interesting article which I am referring here though it is not written in conjunction with Ginans but generally on Indian Raagas.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indian-classical-music-Different-kinds-of-ragas/articleshow/54540966.cms
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ragas in Ginans: About 50 years ago Zawahir Noorally made a presentation at the Ismailia Association Pakistan on Khojki Manuscript in the Manpoer Training Project. She gave me many years ago the notes (undated) and I am reproducing here a passage on ragas with few examples she gave.



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AJD



Joined: 23 Sep 2017
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has always been a pleasure to learn from the knowledge of Admin and his work hard for the Ismaili studies.

In addition to what admin has posted, I would like to make an acute (but significant) point on this juncture.

Although the manuscripts do indicate the ragas of the ginans, however, before making quick decisions like "Oh! Great! I have found the of this ginan written in Manuscript X! This must be the true raag in which the ginan must have been traditionally sung"

The raags mentioned in the manuscripts are misleading (IF not studied systematically) for a number of reasons:

1. The manuscripts do not account for the "Chaal" difference in the raags. For example, the "Darbari Raag" might be mixed up with the "Jonpuri Raag" because of the same notes being followed.

2. The manuscripts contradict each other in terms of Raags. For example, one manuscript indicates the raag of a certain ginan as to be let's say "Bhairvi" while the other one might say no it's supposed to be sung in raag "Jog". This is usually the case with Pir Sadardin's Sindhi ginans. Say ginan "Uthi Allah Na Ghure Banda" is sung in both "Kapaeti" and "Bhairvi".

3. The background of the scribe is very relevant while working on the raags. It's very disappointing to note that many of the manuscripts do not indicate the name of the scribe. Or in case if they do so, they fail to mention much details.

4. The regional context is positively ignored by the scribe. It means that a particular ginan might be sung in a different raag in Junagadh and with different raag in Sindh.

Conclusion:

It's an open field to comment upon. Most importantly, much less work has been done on the ginans and its various aspects. The "Raags" are also one of the aspects which must be systematically studied. Indeed, we would need manuscripts for that. So, it's a GREAT KHIDMAT by the HERITAGE SOCIETY in the field. Lastly, scholarships must be made available to students who want to study ginans from an academic point of view.
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