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Why Bandagi shouldn't be performed when pregnant?
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ismaili2018



Joined: 10 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Why Bandagi shouldn't be performed when pregnant? Reply with quote

Ya ali madad,

May I please know if there is any harm in doing bandagi when pregnant?

Thanks,
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MHI has excused pregnant women from performing BUK bandagi because I think it is challenging to maintain concentration while you are pregnant especially during the later stages. However they can still perform remembrance and other religious observances such as ginan/qasida recitation.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are 2 aspects to analyse: One is the health. The second is the presence of another soul in the womb, a soul which listen to the voice of the mother and the mother may have a Bol not to be shared. There may be other aspects, I hope people will find them.

Just remember, if the Imam says "day" then it is "Day" regardless of your perception.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rules of BK bandagi were very strict at time of MSMS. In one of his Farmans, he said," If you are sick still you have to attend BK, no matter if 4 persons carry you on char pai (cot) to khaney for bandagi". Present Imam is gracious, with changing times his Farman for bandagi is," Do not sit in bandagi if you have head ache because you will not be able to concentrate on Bol". Therefore a pregnant woman with pain shall not be able to concentrate, hence there is forgiveness for her. Even in Islam during mensuration cycle, a woman is prohibited to say salat.

After how many days a fetus in womb receives soul and what kind of that soul is? Is it vegetative soul or animal soul or a mineral soul?
Does a fetus has hearing power to listen to the Bol a woman recite. I don't think so. The womb is a prison for a baby in making. The complete human soul enters the body when the new born is allowed to get out of hell of womb, with that the new born gets the gift of 'hawas e khumsa".
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other issue, in Islam during mensuration cycle, a woman is prohibited to say salat. What about an Ismaili woman, can she recite Du'a during mensturation cycle?

Last edited by shivaathervedi on Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Admin



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Other issue, in Islam during mensuration cycle, a woman is prohibited to say salat.


Which "Islam"? There is no such thing in Ismailism though we are real Islam.

So one should not confuse Islam with the Islam of other cults and sects and extremists and shariatis, and that of the past, this is not our Islam, nor the Islam preached by our Prophet (PBUH)..

https://www.facebook.com/IsmailiHeritage/videos/2117092965229799/
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Other issue, in Islam during mensuration cycle, a woman is prohibited to say salat.


Which "Islam"? There is no such thing in Ismailism though we are real Islam.

So one should not confuse Islam with the Islam of other cults and sects and extremists and shariatis, and that of the past, this is not our Islam, nor the Islam preached by our Prophet (PBUH)..

https://www.facebook.com/IsmailiHeritage/videos/2117092965229799/


Ismailis believe in Islam as mentioned and explained by Hazar Imam in the first article of Preamble of Ismaili constitution. These are the same tenets of Islam as preached and explained by Prophet Muhammad. It is wrong to say, 'ONLY the Ismailis are on right Islam'; Did Imam mentioned this in any interview?

The questioned asked is not a new one, may be new for you. It was popped up in Karachi long ago, but women could not get proper explanation from our highly qualified scholars. Their answers were diplomatic, and according to a local phrase " lepa poti ", which you are also demonstrating. Does the Ismaili women stop asking such questions, who will explain?

For decades Imam has been talking about intellect and faith. You posted the little part out of context. There was no mention of mensturation in that video. Does mensturation of women will stop automatically in 22nd and 23rd centuries?


Last edited by shivaathervedi on Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ismaili women are not restricted from any spiritual advantages and obligation because of menstruation. Therefore the question does not arise for Ismailis, be it today of in the 23rd Century.

This is similar to saying that women are restricted in places of prayers in "Islam". What Islam? Whose Islam?

I am not denying that there are still very backward thinking people in some other branches of Islam but there are very few in in Ismailism, perhaps some who may have been born into Ismaili families but who are drown in Shariati interpretation, that one that will never conciliate with the Haqiqati interpretation of Islam... All this has already been discuss and bringing the same old shariat all over the place is just polluting all subjects discussed here.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not understand, why you look at mostly questions with shari'ati lenses.
Pir has said;

UTTAM HOEI NAEI DHOEI APNA ALAKH NE ARADHO
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never come across any Farman which mentions mensturation.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fatima bint Abi Hubaish used to have bleeding in between the periods, so she asked the Prophet about it. He replied, "The bleeding is from a blood vessel and not the menses. So give up the prayers when the (real) menses begins and when it has finished, take a bath and start praying."

Reference; Sahih al-Bukhari
In-book reference; Book 6, Hadith 25

There is no Salat (prayer) to be offered by a menstruating woman in lieu of the missed Salat during her menses.

Sahih al Bukhari
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Admin



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hadiths are not Farmans. At least they are not considered Farmans by Ismailis.

95% of Hadiths are probably fabricated. Why go to hadiths when we have an Imam of the Time? Of course no Ismaili would do that.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
[It is wrong to say, 'ONLY the Ismailis are on right Islam'; Did Imam mentioned this in any interview?
In one of the interviews MHI said:

On the spiritual plane, the Imam's authority is absolute. Ismailis believe therefore that what the Imam says is the only true interpretation possible.

http://www.ismaili.net/intervue/i750300.html
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
[It is wrong to say, 'ONLY the Ismailis are on right Islam'; Did Imam mentioned this in any interview?
In one of the interviews MHI said:

On the spiritual plane, the Imam's authority is absolute. Ismailis believe therefore that what the Imam says is the only true interpretation possible.

http://www.ismaili.net/intervue/i750300.html


In the quote you posted, Imam is talking about spiritual plane and not over all on Islam. By the way how many Ismailis follow the spiritual interpretation of Imam for spiritual advancement or ethical values, you can see the numbers proriey in BK!!
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
Hadiths are not Farmans. At least they are not considered Farmans by Ismailis.

95% of Hadiths are probably fabricated. Why go to hadiths when we have an Imam of the Time? Of course no Ismaili would do that.


Did I wrote, Hadiths are Farmans? It is true majority of Hadiths are fabricated but we have to look at the hard work of some Muslim scholars who worked decades on Hadiths to sort out true Hadiths from fake. One of such scholar was Muhammad bin Ismail Bukhari. His intentions were right. He sorted out only 7250 Hadiths out of 700,000 in circulation at that time and declared rest of them fabricated. During waiz I have listened many Hadiths from Bukhari by our missionaries.

Your assertion why go to Hadiths when we have Imam of time; True Ismailis believe in Hidayat and Ta'leem of Imam but we do not have guidance on this particular subject so what shall we do? Either some murid, missionary, ITREB, or some leader should approach to Imam and request for Hidayat.

Solution is there; above in one of my postings, I quoted a part of Ginan;

EJI UTTAM HOI NAI DHOI
AAPNA ALAKH NE ARADHO.

Guidance is in this part of Ginan. There is a Farman of MSMS, "tamey paak saaf thai ne jamait khana ma aawo". Therefore all murids male or female MUST attend JK purifying themselves. Whether it is mensturation or JANABET (i.e intercourse by husband and wife) or any other NIJASET. This also comes under ethical values.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are not going to return to the past. You logic is flawed. Imam has not said which direction one has to defecate and many such things and there are very elaborated hadiths saying which direction you are allowed to and which direction is haram. So are you going to follow the hadith and rebuilt your toilet room? What is ethical about all this nonsense?

This is the attitude which have destroyed Muslims Empires in the past, the lack of intellect.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

In the quote you posted, Imam is talking about spiritual plane and not over all on Islam. By the way how many Ismailis follow the spiritual interpretation of Imam for spiritual advancement or ethical values, you can see the numbers proriey in BK!!
I should have posted the whole phrase. In the answer MHI refers to his role in both material advancement and spiritual advancement. The spiritual plane refers to Ibadaat Dua/Ginans/Farmans. Dua is considered to be the basis of spiritual advancement without which BUK is meaningless.

While we may respect other interpretations, for Ismailis, the interpretation given by the Imam is the correct one.

The numbers who actually practice is irrelevant to the principle itself.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

EJI UTTAM HOI NAI DHOI
AAPNA ALAKH NE ARADHO.

Guidance is in this part of Ginan. There is a Farman of MSMS, "tamey paak saaf thai ne jamait khana ma aawo". Therefore all murids male or female MUST attend JK purifying themselves. Whether it is mensturation or JANABET (i.e intercourse by husband and wife) or any other NIJASET. This also comes under ethical values.
If menstruation was considered as aspect of cleanliness, then the Imam would be very specific because it affects the attendance of half the jamat. Just as pregnancy effects half the Jamat for BUK.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at the house of an Muslim in India last year. We were eating in their kitchen, the table was big and could accommodate several people but one of the daughter in law was given food though the window of the house.

I asked why? I was told she is having her menstruation and was not pure so for 3 days she can not sleep or eat at the house, she has to live in a cabano outside in the garden.

Where is the humanity in all that? is this what the Prophet had intended ever? Is this what Allah demands from Muslims?
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
I was at the house of an Muslim in India last year. We were eating in their kitchen, the table was big and could accommodate several people but one of the daughter in law was given food though the window of the house.

I asked why? I was told she is having her menstruation and was not pure so for 3 days she can not sleep or eat at the house, she has to live in a cabano outside in the garden.

Where is the humanity in all that? is this what the Prophet had intended ever? Is this what Allah demands from Muslims?


Lately I have realized you have started coining anecdotes for fun without logic on serious matters. I wander that millionaire Muslim friend of Admin had a big house with big kitchen with a big table but that poor man was without dinning room for guests!! Looks like that mulla type friend of mulla Admin still was living in 12th century. I have Muslim friends and have seen how they respect their daughters and daughter in laws. Prophet never said, that a woman with periods should be locked in a separate room. This is your imagination to prove your point.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islam does not consider menstruation to be a punishment towards women, and it would be a grave error to compare this great religion to other faiths who do view menstruation in this horrible, derogatory manner. Islam’s perspective is that menstruation is normal and it is natural.

Additionally, a menstruating woman is not dirty, but rather from a legal perspective, she is ritually impure for the duration that she is menstruating. This has legal consequences and not spiritual consequences. As such, she is instructed by Allah to stop certain forms of worship, and every second that she obeys these commands, it is worship if done for Allah’s sake.

Furthermore, the Quran is revelation; it deserves to be exalted and Allah teaches us how to do so. The Quranic ayah of the ‘pure ones’ does not only refer to menstruating women, but to any person in a state of ritual impurity, whether minor or major, male or female.

Finally, women must work hard at establishing good habits of worship during their menstruation, as well as maintaining them when ritually pure. There are many acts of worship that a menstruating woman can perform that will gain her the pleasure of her Lord. These emotions of feeling ‘left out’ are an obvious result of not persisting to engage in habitual practices of devotion while menstruating. Most certainly, if one is in a constant state of remembering Allah, one will never feel far from Him.

There is nothing in Islam that says menstruating women are ‘dirty.’ Rather, menstruation is viewed as a natural process that normal, healthy women experience throughout their lifetime. A Syrian scholar once wrote a letter to his young daughter clarifying the details of menstruation to her. He gently explained to her, “…it is a healthy blood. Indeed, menstruation has a natural, physical connection with a woman’s body to enable pregnancy. Allah is most exalted in His wisdom. He made menstruation a means for pregnancy….Verily, the uterus is preparing itself to welcome (the ability for) pregnancy with this blood and whenever pregnancy does not occur, this blood exits from the uterus to the vagina…” [Fathi Ahmad Safi; Ahkam al-Hayd wa al-Nifas]

Medically-speaking it is impossible for a woman to become pregnant if she cannot menstruate, which is the case for young children and post-menopausal women. The blessing of being able to menstruate is quite clear for the one who reflects. The first time a girl sees menstrual blood in her life her body is signaling to her that she is growing into a young woman. She is now physically able to start conceiving. In fact, only by the occurrence of menstruation is a woman given the opportunity to begin and nurture a righteous family. For most women, Allah gives them this chance once a month for a series of years to attempt conception and enjoy the blessing of raising pious children. Surely, the wondrous joys experienced during parenthood would never be possible without first encountering menstruation.

(adopted from an article on menstruation)
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

EJI UTTAM HOI NAI DHOI
AAPNA ALAKH NE ARADHO.

Guidance is in this part of Ginan. There is a Farman of MSMS, "tamey paak saaf thai ne jamait khana ma aawo". Therefore all murids male or female MUST attend JK purifying themselves. Whether it is mensturation or JANABET (i.e intercourse by husband and wife) or any other NIJASET. This also comes under ethical values.
If menstruation was considered as aspect of cleanliness, then the Imam would be very specific because it affects the attendance of half the jamat. Just as pregnancy effects half the Jamat for BUK.


Cleanliness is next to Godliness. Please revisit your calculation. You wrote,"It affects the attendance of half of jamait". Let us assume 50% are male and 50% female. Then all women do not menstruate at same time, it should be 5-7% . Why Pir said;
EJI UTTAM HOI NAAI DHOI
AAPNA ALAKH NE ARADHO
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
We are not going to return to the past. You logic is flawed. Imam has not said which direction one has to defecate and many such things and there are very elaborated hadiths saying which direction you are allowed to and which direction is haram. So are you going to follow the hadith and rebuilt your toilet room? What is ethical about all this nonsense?

This is the attitude which have destroyed Muslims Empires in the past, the lack of intellect.


A very poor and nonsense example. Muslim empires were not destroyed because of in which direction to defecate, dear scholar.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

In the quote you posted, Imam is talking about spiritual plane and not over all on Islam. By the way how many Ismailis follow the spiritual interpretation of Imam for spiritual advancement or ethical values, you can see the numbers proriey in BK!!
I should have posted the whole phrase. In the answer MHI refers to his role in both material advancement and spiritual advancement. The spiritual plane refers to Ibadaat Dua/Ginans/Farmans. Dua is considered to be the basis of spiritual advancement without which BUK is meaningless.

While we may respect other interpretations, for Ismailis, the interpretation given by the Imam is the correct one.

The numbers who actually practice is irrelevant to the principle itself.


Material advancement means progress in worldly affairs. In western countries I have seen very poor attendance in JK at Du'a timings. For example on chand raat the attendance is thousand but in prorei in BK there are hardly 15-20 persons. Quran has given guidance for both worldly affairs as well as spiritual affairs and Imam is guiding accordingly.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:


A very poor and nonsense example. Muslim empires were not destroyed because of in which direction to defecate, dear scholar.


You are welcome to tell us why Muslim Empires were destroyed if it was not for abandoning the spirit of Islam in favour of formalism and abandoning the intellectual tradition in favour of shariati interpretation...

The truth is that somewhere down the line, some Muslim leaders decided that Islam had to remain the religion of the past as practiced in the past and they stopped being the children of their time.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Cleanliness is next to Godliness. Please revisit your calculation. You wrote,"It affects the attendance of half of jamait". Let us assume 50% are male and 50% female. Then all women do not menstruate at same time, it should be 5-7% . Why Pir said;
EJI UTTAM HOI NAAI DHOI
AAPNA ALAKH NE ARADHO
I never implied that all women menstruate at once. What I implied is that menstruation affects the attendance of half the jamat at certain times so it is significant enough for the Imam to give explicit guidance if it was necessary, just as pregnancy does not effect all the women at once, it was a significant matter healthwise for the Imam to mention in his Farman.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Material advancement means progress in worldly affairs. In western countries I have seen very poor attendance in JK at Du'a timings. For example on chand raat the attendance is thousand but in prorei in BK there are hardly 15-20 persons. Quran has given guidance for both worldly affairs as well as spiritual affairs and Imam is guiding accordingly.
Poor attendance for spiritual advancement does not negate the fact that what the Imam says is the only correct interpretation on matters of faith.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:


A very poor and nonsense example. Muslim empires were not destroyed because of in which direction to defecate, dear scholar.


You are welcome to tell us why Muslim Empires were destroyed if it was not for abandoning the spirit of Islam in favour of formalism and abandoning the intellectual tradition in favour of shariati interpretation...

The truth is that somewhere down the line, some Muslim leaders decided that Islam had to remain the religion of the past as practiced in the past and they stopped being the children of their time.


Let us start with Fatimid Empire. Was that destroyed or dissolved because of defecate as you taunted. Was that not a finest, strong, and INTELLECTUALLY ADVANCED Empire? There are and were various reasons, why Empires and world super powers of past centuries destroyed, dissolved or disappeared. There was a time when Turkey was super power, then Austria, followed by France, then Germany, British, Russia and now USA. It a lesson from history that laws of nature give 100/150 years to a nation which after reaching climax their down fall starts.
Regarding Muslim Empires (rules applies to all nations), following are few reasons of downfall. when citizens divided in groups racially, language wise, or religiously divided, their down fall started. Royal families fighting each other to control government and power. Degradation of ethical values. Greed to accumulate wealth and power. Rulers involved deeply in womanizing, drinking, rapes, and other filthy habits. Harsh punishments on petty issues and cruelty. Shari'ah had no role in destruction of Muslim empires. Shari'ah does not mean only Salat, saum or hajj, but Shari'ah is LAWS, how to live ethically, it governs the social, economical, political, and ethical values of a Muslim society.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

Cleanliness is next to Godliness. Please revisit your calculation. You wrote,"It affects the attendance of half of jamait". Let us assume 50% are male and 50% female. Then all women do not menstruate at same time, it should be 5-7% . Why Pir said;
EJI UTTAM HOI NAAI DHOI
AAPNA ALAKH NE ARADHO
I never implied that all women menstruate at once. What I implied is that menstruation affects the attendance of half the jamat at certain times so it is significant enough for the Imam to give explicit guidance if it was necessary, just as pregnancy does not effect all the women at once, it was a significant matter healthwise for the Imam to mention in his Farman.


You are not paying attention or deliberately neglecting the part of Ginan I quoted. What is the Hidayat by Pir in this particular part. It is a general norm that any male or female murid who comes to JK for prayers should be bodily and clothes wise clean. This is a common practice in all religions. Any menstruate woman who clean herself can attend JK. NA PAKI is not allowed in JK, it is different story 'SUBB CHALTA HAI'.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

You are not paying attention or deliberately neglecting the part of Ginan I quoted. What is the Hidayat by Pir in this particular part. It is a general norm that any male or female murid who comes to JK for prayers should be bodily and clothes wise clean. This is a common practice in all religions. Any menstruate woman who clean herself can attend JK. NA PAKI is not allowed in JK, it is different story 'SUBB CHALTA HAI'.
Of course we have to be clean when attending JK, this is a commonsense matter. MHI does not repeatedly say this in his Farmans. In our tradition women are raised to handle cleanliness and menstruation and no further explicit guidance is required in this respect.
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