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Facing Kaba'a
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pluralism is the base of unity in the Umah. Any person preaching against freedom of interpretation in Islam and preaching for compulsion in one way thinking is welcomed to find some other web sites were he can preach in all freedom.

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pardesi



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Admin,

I hope you are not banning m0786 from this forum. I think we are having a pretty healthy debate. He has his views and we have enough ammunition to counter if he is trying to preach a different theology/ideology. I think we should show little more patience and hear him out. Kmeherali is very knowledgeable and is doing a great job and does not need anyones intervention on this thread. Just a request. You're the boss here.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who think they have the monopole of Wisdom are not welcomed here. Depending on the course of the discussion some people may be banned. There are rules for posting and one rule is to share views, not to impose views or judge people.
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m0786



Joined: 16 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Br. Pardesi

Thank you.

I am not or have not preached against right for different interpretation of Qur'an.

Br. KM and I were talking about Q 2:144, in this verse Prophet of Islam was commanded to face scared Masjid and the fact that Kabah is located within this Masjid.

For us believing Muslims there is no other way to Interprete this verse. I posted Pooya/Ali's( a Shia) comments to support this view.

For Muslims(Sunni and Shia) there is no other Quibla (direction of prayer).

I do accept that Imami Ismaili are free to face any direction per farman of MHI or guidance from their board.

I have made the point and do not see need to say more.

Wasalaam
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pardesi



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brother m0786,

You must understand that the Admin and Moderators on this website have a very tough job of keeping it clean of the litter and garbage dumped here by the enemies of Ismailism and to keep it on the right track for which it was created. Although this website was created for Ismailis, outsiders are welcomed with open arms if they have something to share and learn about our tariqa and of course if they follow the rules of the forums.

The Admin and other members have to face abuse and insults on a daily basis from people who do not understand and share our beliefs. Those of us who engage others are doing so only because our Imam has recommended us to answer and explain and explain again what our beliefs really are. So Admin's ire is understandable when they feel that a particular person is upto something. Majority of outsiders are!

You are welcome to ask questions to learn about our beliefs and you have the right to form your own opinion in the end. Like you mentioned on another thread that one must read up some scholarly books before jumping into a debate, I suggest you also do that. Our answers will make a lot of sense once you have the basic understanding.
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naushad25



Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

m0786 wrote:
Br. kmaherali;<BR><BR>AS<BR><BR>JAK for response.<BR><BR><BR>
Quote:
There have really been no cut and dried rules
<BR><BR>So I understand that Ismaili Muslim is not requred to face towads Kaaba while praying even though it is clear in Qur&#39;an prayer direction is towards Kaaba. Yes or No?<BR><BR>If I may apply my inteellect in reasoning that when Ismaili Muslim prays in Jamaat he prays facing prayer leader and officials representing MHI. Therefore he is praying towards MHI. Hense MHI is Kaaba!<BR><BR>Wasalaam
<BR><BR>Dear Bro,<BR><BR>you are saying exactly right, though mistakenly, but its truth. I agree that Quran says to pray facing Kaaba. but plz think spiritually, not in worldly terms and not what is written. bcz the Quran is in Arabic and everyone gives different interpretation. Quran is Classic book of Allah but as muslims, we need to know what is written in it and for that we need someone who can tell us the truth and thats what we have. i will give u example, from the time of Prophet Muhammad, many ppl have said that they are Allah&#39;s men and Allah has sent them after Prophet but except Prince Karim and His family, no o&shy;ne is in this world now. and each and every person who claimed that is no more and their followers are apart from each other. <BR>So coming back to question, Quran is right in saying about Kaaba. Who told u to do so? Yes, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). that u know. But why he told u to do so? just bcz its written in Quran and Allah wants u to do that. No my brother. Quran is not that easy and simple. You know who was born inside Kaaba. When mother of Hazrat Ali (SAW) was pregnant, at month 7, she had labour pain and&nbsp;there was no o&shy;ne who can help her. she came out of her house and was&nbsp;looking for someone. When she&nbsp;came near Kaaba (as u know Kaaba was there from the time of Hazrat Ibrahim), she got unconsious. Suddenly, the walls of Kaaba broke open and she entered inside Kaaba. Angels came and that was the birth of Hazrat Ali (SAW). if u want to confirm it, go to the top Scholar of Sunni and ask him. Sunni scholars know all this but they hide this from ppl. so continuing, Indirectly, u ppl dont know but actually every o&shy;ne is facing Ali (SAW) while praying. and thats the truth. so we ismailies are doing same by praying facing our Imam bcz he is Noor of Ali(SAW).<BR><BR>I hope this helps all querries o&shy;n this forum.<BR><BR>Peace
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InquisitiveGirl



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI,

a lot of the khanas around the world, including North America, face the kabaa. Also, the new Dharkhanas are all being built, facing the Kabaa.

If facing the Kabaa is not in our Tariqa, then why are the Khanas under construction being built in the direction of the Kabaa?
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naushad25



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<P>See we can now imagine that MHI is now making o&shy;ne tariqa for our jamat like He changed the Nikah which is almost same as that for other muslims, changes in Dua as it will soon be available. From these changes, i think now He is trying to put us o&shy;n a platform where we can talk to other muslims in a better way. Simply, He is ordering us to make JKs facing Kaaba bcz most of the Ismailis dont know the truth written in our Ginans and we dont bother to study it as well. But the real interpretation of this is same as that i have given in my previous post. and this is actually not impt where we face if we belive Ali (SAW).</P>
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Admin



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no such thing as Kaba direction from North America. It depends how you understand the shape of the world. Half of the Masjid in America face the south East and the other half north East.

The way a plane flies from North America to Mecca is not the way you look on a flat map.

For Ismailis there is only one Kaaba. This has already been discussed. Search Kaba in the Forum, read all the previous discussion before posting.
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

InquisitiveGirl wrote:
FYI,

a lot of the khanas around the world, including North America, face the kabaa. Also, the new Dharkhanas are all being built, facing the Kabaa.

If facing the Kabaa is not in our Tariqa, then why are the Khanas under construction being built in the direction of the Kabaa?


I would disagree.

A lot of them don't..even some of the new ones don't.

Shams
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

InquisitiveGirl wrote:
FYI,

a lot of the khanas around the world, including North America, face the kabaa. Also, the new Dharkhanas are all being built, facing the Kabaa.

If facing the Kabaa is not in our Tariqa, then why are the Khanas under construction being built in the direction of the Kabaa?
I think this matter has been discussed in this thread earlier. Go through the whole thread. There are seven pages.
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zznoor



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is no such thing as Kaba direction from North America. It depends how you understand the shape of the world. Half of the Masjid in America face the south East and the other half north East.


According to my father who is consulting civil Engineer and has set direction for 3 Sunni and one Shia Masjid in Northeast USA there is a set direction and it is North East not south east.

I did some research and found this on moonsighting.com on qibla FAQ.

Quote:
Question: What is correct Qibla direction from North America, North-East or South-East? Some people show on the flat map that Qibla should be South-East.

Answer: Earth is NOT flat as some people still believe. No one can give them knowledge except Allah. But those who ponder on this have clearly seen that the earth is approximately round. Earth's shadow on moon is visible at Moon Eclipse, and it is always round. Other proofs of roundness are observations; when a sailing- away ship is seen on the horizon for a distance it vanishes slowly going below horizon, etc.
For Qibla direction, when people debate the direction for North America as being North-East or South-East, the problem is lack of understanding that the earth is not flat so you should not look at flat map. The round earth gives a different perspective. If you look at the globe then may be you will see that the direction from Alaska to Makkah is due North, although Makkah is South of Alaska. If there were a minaret over Ka'bah that was so high that it reaches the sky, then you could see it from Nova Scotia and it would be in North-East direction. In fact the sun comes approximately overhead above Ka'bah on two dates every year. That is like a minaret over ka'bah. Read about it on my Qibla direction page

And you will understand the correct direction of Qibla, from North America in general is North-East, except on North-west corner of USA and Alaska where Qibla is almost North.

End of Quote
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Admin



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said some people believe North-East is the proper way to look and some believe South East is the proper way.

All of these people should not fight on the true direction because they have a common perspective: they all have difficulties understanding Allah's command that wherever you look, God is everywhere.

Though some wants to imprison him is a particular place depending on their religion. Either in the sun, or in a statue or in a stone...

Tomorrow our children will explore far away galaxies and look at the miracle of creation and the limitless power of Allah. They will wonder why people just few Centuries ago were fighting on the direction for prayer on some planet earth which would be abandoned already for better places in the universe..
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
The following anecdote quoted by Nagib in another discussion, says it all.

When I went to Karachi in 1981, I was told the following anecdote:

Mowlana Shah Karim visited the Sulan Muhammad Shah Takri in Karachi with some leaders. From the top, he asked them where is the Qaba? The leaders started looking east and west, searching for direction but could not reply.

One of the caretaker [he was from Hunza] was summoned and he was asked the same question. I felt at the feet of Hazar Imam and kissed-it. Crying loudly, he said Khudawind, here is the Qaba. Hazar Imam said, you are right.

Nagib


The eqaution of the Ka'ba with the Imam in our tradition is not something that is exclusive to our tradition. Below is an anecdote from the life of the great Islamic Sufi Bayazid Bustami meeting a saint on his way to Hajj. It is taken from Mathnavi of Rumi (II: 2220 onwards).

How a certain Shaykh said to Bayazid, "I am the Ka'ba: perform a circumambitlatian round me."

Bayazid, the Shaykh of the community, was hurrying to Mecca for the greater pilgrimage (hajj) and the lesser (umra).

In every city to which he went he would at first make search after the venerable (saints).

2220 He would roam about, asking, "Who is there in the city that is relying on1 (spiritual) insight?"

God has said, "Whithersoever thou goest in thy travels, thou must first seek after a (holy) man."

Go in quest of a treasure, for (worldly) profit and loss come second: regard them as the branch (not as the root).

Whoever sows is in quest of wheat; the chaff comes to him indeed, (but only) secondarily.

If you sow chaff, no wheat will come up: seek a man, seek a man!

2225 When it is the season of pilgrimage, go in quest of the Ka'ba; when you have gone (with that purpose), Mecca also will be seen.

In the Mi'raj (Ascension of the Prophet) the quest was (for) vision of the Beloved; 'twas but secondarily that the empyrean and the angels were also shown.

Story.

A novice one day built a new house; the Pir came (and) saw his house.
The Shaykh said to his new disciple—he put to the test him that had good thoughts —

"Wherefore hast thou made a window, O comrade?" Said he "In order that light may come in by this way."

2230 He (the Shaykh) said, "That is (only) the branch (secondary-object); (thy) want (desire) must be this, (namely) that through this channel thou mayst hear the call to prayer."

Bayazid, on his journey (to the Ka'ba), sought much to find some one that was the Khizr of his time.

He espied an old man with a stature (bent) like the new moon; he saw in him the majesty and (lofty) speech of (holy) men;

His eyes sightless, and his heart (illumined) as the sun: like an elephant dreaming of Hindustan.

With closed eyes, asleep, he beholds a hundred delights; when he opens (his eyes), he sees not those (delights)—oh, ('tis) wonderful!

2235 Many a wonder is made manifest in sleep: in sleep the heart becomes a window.

One that is awake and dreams fair dreams, he is the knower (of God): smear your eyes with2 his dust.

He (Bayazid) sat down before him and asked about his condition; he found him to be a dervish and also a family man

He (the old man) said, "Whither art thou bound, O Bayazid? To what place wouldst thou take the baggage of travel in a strange land?"

Bayazid answered, "I start for the Ka'ba at daybreak." "Eh," cried the other, "what hast thou as provisions for the road?"

2240 "I have two hundred silver dirhems," said he; "look, (they are) tied fast in the corner of my cloak."

He said, "Make a circuit round me seven times, and reckon this (to be) better than the circumambulation (of the Ka'ba) in the pilgrimage;

And lay those dirhems before me, O generous one. Know that thou hast made the greater pilgrimage and that thy desire has been achieved;

(That) thou hast (also) performed the lesser pilgrimage and gained the life everlasting; (that) thou hast become pure (saf) and sped up (the Hill of) Purity (Safd).

By the truth of the Truth (God) whom thy soul hath seen, (I swear) that He hath chosen me above His House.

2245 Albeit the Ka'ba is the House of His religious service, my form too, in which I was created, is the house of His inmost conciousness.

Never since God made the Ka'ba hath He gone into it, and none but the Living (God) hath ever gone into this House (of mine).

When thou hast seen me, thou hast seen God: thou hast circled round the Ka'ba of Sincerity.

To serve me is to obey and glorify God: beware thou think not that God is separate from me.

Open thine eyes well and look on me, that thou mayst behold the Light of God in man."

Bayazid gave heed to those mystic sayings, and put them in his ear as a golden ring.

Through him (the old man), Bayazjd came into an increase (of spiritual endowment): the adept at last attained unto the end.

1 Literally, " supporting himself on the pillars of."
2 Literally, "draw into your eyes."
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change prayer position, Indonesian Muslims told
Reuters
Posted on Jul 16, 2010 at 18:20

Jakarta: Indonesia's Muslims learned on Friday they have been praying in the wrong direction, after the country's highest Islamic authority said its directive on the direction of Mecca actually had people facing Africa.

Muslims are supposed to face the holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia during prayer and the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) issued an edict in March stipulating westward was the correct direction from the world's most populous Muslim country.

"But it has been decided that actually the mosques are facing Somalia or Kenya, so we are now suggesting people shift the direction slightly to the north-west," the head of the MUI, Cholil Ridwan, told Reuters. "There's no need to knock down mosques, just shift your direction slightly during prayer."

Ridwan said Muslims need not fear that their prayers have been wasted because they were facing the wrong way.

"Their prayers will still be heard by Allah," he said.

Said Agil Siradj, head of Indonesia's largest Muslim organisation Nahdlatul Ulama, told English language newspaper the Jakarta Globe that the confusion showed the MUI issued edicts too fast and that this was a lesson for them.

The MUI has, in the past, issued controversial edicts banning Muslims from chanting during yoga, and from smoking.

Indonesia is a majority Muslim but officially secular country.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/change-prayer-position-indonesian-muslims-told/126872-2.html
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this in the text entitled "The Royal Book of Spiritual Chivalry" by
Husayn Wa'iz Kashifi Sabzawari (d. 1504/5):

"If asked: What is the direction of obligatory prayer of the robe of spiritual poverty?
Say: The perfect spiritual guide." (2000, p. 157).

*****

Nasir-i Khusraw wrote:

"The exoteric (zahir) of prayer consists in adoring God with postures of the body, in directing the body towards the qibla of the body, which is the Ka`bah, the Temple of the Most High God, situated at Mecca. To understand the esoteric of Prayer (ta'wil-e-batin) means adoring God with the thinking soul and turning towards the qibla of the spirit which is the Temple of the God, that Temple in which the divine gnosis is enclosed, I mean the Imam in Truth, salutations to him.

(Nasir Khusraw quoted in Azim Nanji, "Isma`ilism" in Islamic Spirituality: Foundations, ed. S.H. Nasr (London: 1987), p. 192)
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

References from al-Mu'ayyad Shirazi's Diwan about the fatimid Imam of his time, Imam Mustansirbillah:

"He is the victorious one aided by Allah;
He is the qibla of Truth and the noblest Ka'ba." (qasida 49)

"O the mightiest qibla of the Truth
and the noblest Ka'ba of the living ones!

If a pilgrimage is performed to a house of stone,
it is more fitting for it to be towards you." (qasida 10)

" O qibla of the spiritual world! Towards you turn
all the qiblas themselves, from the East and the West." (qasida 4)
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Reflection on Wajhullah (‘The Face of Allah’)

By Kamaluddin Ali Muhammad

http://simerg.com/literary-readings/a-reflection-on-wajhullah-the-face-of-allah/
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q87 The Ka‘bah = The House of God:

In what sense is the Ka‘bah regarded as the House of God, while it is a material building and God is above and free from space and spacelessness? What is the ta’wil of the turning of the face towards the Qiblah, i.e., the direction of the Ka‘bah?

A87

(a) The Ka‘bah is the House of God in the sense that in the Qur’an God Himself has said about it: “My House” (2:125; 22:26). Therefore, there is no doubt in its being the House of God.

(b) Certainly, God, as such, is above and free from space and spacelessness, however, the wisdoms of God’s recognition, which are hidden in the example of “the House of God”, are so great and lofty that in knowing them a mu’min finds God. To know these secrets of God’s recognition is such that someone truly enters the House of God. Therefore, in this sense, this holy place is the House of God.

(c) The greatest secret, the main symbol and the fundamental beauty of the Ka‘bah is that it is the symbol of God’s real and prosperous House, which is living and is the fountainhead of knowledge and wisdom and the centre of rectitude and guidance, in which the divine light actually kindles. It is from here that God’s recognition and all those things related to God’s House are available. Such a House of God during the time of the holy Prophet was the Prophet himself and after him the Imam of the time in every age.

(d) It is said in a sacred Tradition: “I am not contained by the heaven or by the earth, I am contained only by the heart of a mu’min”. From this tradition two realities come in front of us: clearly one is that since the heaven and the earth cannot contain God, then the Throne and the Ka‘bah cannot contain Him either. The other is, if a true mu’min’s heart can contain Him then first of all, He must necessarily and certainly be contained by the pure and purified heart of the Commander of the faithful [mu’mineen] and the Perfect Man, i.e. the true Imam. This means that in the true sense it is the Perfect Man who is the House of God that contains everything which belongs to God.

(e) When the Ka‘bah, in this sense, is the ta’wili symbol of the Imam and the Imam is its symbolised (mamthul), this means that in the shari‘at the House of God is the physical qiblah, in the Haqiqat, the House of God is the spiritual qiblah. Thus the ta’wil of facing the Ka‘bah in the matters of shari‘at is to face the spiritual qiblah in the matters of Haqiqat. The spiritual qiblah is the Imam of the time, Salawatu’llahi ‘alayhi.

From Allamah Hunzai's Hundred Questions
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avrozmaredia



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our Shia Ismaili Tariqah is Batuni Mazab.
For Salvation, facing kaaba doesn't matter. Our Murshid is 14 Brahman's Creator and one who created Kaaba.
So, just do bandagi and pray for Noorani deedar.
That will lead to salvation.

[I don't have any reference for what i posted. It's my thoughts and belief]
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mawlana (Rumi) knows, too, that each of us turns in our prayers- that is, in our thoughts and wishes - to a different qibla "prayer direction," and each person has a different qibla. Late in his life he enumerates the various directions that people's longing thoughts take:

The Kaaba for the spirits
and Gabriel: the Sidra-tree,

The qibla of the glutton:
that is the tablecloth.

The qibla for the gnostic:
the light of union with God.

The qibla of philosophy,
of reason, is: vain thought!

The qibla of the ascetic:
the beneficent God.

The qibla of the greedy:
a purse that's filled with gold.

The qibla of those who look at
true meaning, is patience fine.

The qibla of those who worship
just forms: an image of stone.

The qibla of those esoterics
is He, the Lord of Grace.

The qibla of these exoterists
is but a woman's face......(M VI 1896)

Quoted from late Annemarie Schimmels book: I Am Wind You Are Fire

Reference to online book:

Rumi's World: The Life and Work of the Great Sufi Poet

https://books.google.ca/books?id=C8cdAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT172&lpg=PT172&dq=annemarie+schimmel+rumi+qibla+glutton&source=bl&ots=-UlZX1xJuT&sig=Fyugmog9dw8_gWil6S3Cmmqbv7o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Qtc8VYenGYX9oASJg4HYDA&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=annemarie%20schimmel%20rumi%20qibla%20glutton&f=false
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arlenebatada



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our da'is have talked a lot about the ta'wil regarding Shari'a mentioned in the Qur'an. They were bestowed this knowledge either directly from the Imam in person, or spiritually from the Imam.

Below is an extract from our da'i Ja'far ibn Mansur al-Yaman's Sara'ir, which talks about the esoteric meaning of facing the Ka'ba and performing the Hajj, which has prevailed since the time of Hazrat Adam (a.s):

"The light (Hazrat Adam (a.s)) stopped at the site of the house, and a tent of red rubies descended from the sky. He commanded for the house to be built based on the ropes of the tent. [Adam (a.s)] resided in the house all of his life. Then, he looked at the site of the rays of light, and he fashioned a Ka'aba for them. He set the black stone in it as a mathal for his hujja- Eve, who disseminated his knowledge (hawa 'ilmahu) and wisdom. The angels struck camps around him, and their shading and settling in the desert became an established practice for his offspring. Adam became the house of Allah and the direction to which prayer is directed for the angels. The angels and believers took to circumambulating its dome, praying to him two prostrations each time they circumambulated, weekly. This became a sunna for his offspring and followers and his acolytes until our day, and until this world comes to an end. He who is prevented from prostrating himself to Adam (Prophet/Imam), does not obey him, and aggrandizes himself over him, is a lahiq for Iblis and his forces . . .When his command was strengthened, his hujja enabled, and his power at its height, and he had two sons, Cain and Abel, his first corporeal birth of the two came to pass, in which the good and foul were mixed. Allah commanded to appoint one of the two as his deputy (Imam). He then organised the house as a sanctuary, and made it twelve miles from 'Arafat, as a mathal for the twelve hujjas (high ranking da'is who are Imam's proofs)."
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In salat Shias face Ka'ba because Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
In salat Shias face Ka'ba because Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba.


What direction will they face in two hundred thousands years when there is no planet earth and there is no Kaba and they are residing on Planete Ganymede?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
In salat Shias face Ka'ba because Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba.
Have you seen a Farman or a Ginan to that effect.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
In salat Shias face Ka'ba because Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba.


What direction will they face in two hundred thousands years when there is no planet earth and there is no Kaba and they are residing on Planete Ganymede?


Common sense or no sense, when there will be no planet Earth after two hundred thousand years means there will be no human beings on planet. All will be facing death.
Do you believe Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba?
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
In salat Shias face Ka'ba because Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba.
Have you seen a Farman or a Ginan to that effect.


Did I mention my statement is either from Farman or Ginan? I used the word Shia and not Khoja Ismaili. Do you believe Murtaza Ali was born inside Ka'batullah?
Mowla Ali faced Ka'ba as other Imams did during salats.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Did I mention my statement is either from Farman or Ginan? I used the word Shia and not Khoja Ismaili. Do you believe Murtaza Ali was born inside Ka'batullah?
Mowla Ali faced Ka'ba as other Imams did during salats.
Khoja Ismailis are Shias! We don't follow what the Imams do but follow what he tells us to do.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

Did I mention my statement is either from Farman or Ginan? I used the word Shia and not Khoja Ismaili. Do you believe Murtaza Ali was born inside Ka'batullah?
Mowla Ali faced Ka'ba as other Imams did during salats.
Khoja Ismailis are Shias! We don't follow what the Imams do but follow what he tells us to do.


We have past recorded history Imams and followers faced Ka'ba while performing SALAT. If it is not necessary according to you and some others, Why we face Ka'ba while performing Eid Namaz, Janazah Namaz, and Juma Namaz?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
In salat Shias face Ka'ba because Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba.


What direction will they face in two hundred thousands years when there is no planet earth and there is no Kaba and they are residing on Planete Ganymede?


Common sense or no sense, when there will be no planet Earth after two hundred thousand years means there will be no human beings on planet. All will be facing death.
Do you believe Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba?


The most irrational answer seen on this Forum yet.

The end of earth or the inter galactic travel does not mean the end of mankind, unless you are completely uneducated. Just say you don't know where you will be turning to find the Kaba. Where were you turning when the black stone was stolen and taken to Yemen?

As to the question was Mowla Ali born in that place, it is completely irrelevant to my question and your answers even nullify the ayats of the Quran about whatever direction we pray, Allah is everywhere. Only a idol worshiper would reply in your way.
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