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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Facing Kaba'a
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Facing Kaba'a
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20955

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Why we face Ka'ba while performing Eid Namaz, Janazah Namaz, and Juma Namaz?
I know for sure we don't face Ka'ba when performing Eid Namaz. For the other two I am not quite sure.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
In salat Shias face Ka'ba because Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba.


What direction will they face in two hundred thousands years when there is no planet earth and there is no Kaba and they are residing on Planete Ganymede?


Common sense or no sense, when there will be no planet Earth after two hundred thousand years means there will be no human beings on planet. All will be facing death.
Do you believe Mowla Ali was born inside Ka'ba?


The most irrational answer seen on this Forum yet.

The end of earth or the inter galactic travel does not mean the end of mankind, unless you are completely uneducated. Just say you don't know where you will be turning to find the Kaba. Where were you turning when the black stone was stolen and taken to Yemen?

As to the question was Mowla Ali born in that place, it is completely irrelevant to my question and your answers even nullify the ayats of the Quran about whatever direction we pray, Allah is everywhere. Only a idol worshiper would reply in your way.


Discussion is about Ka'ba and not BLACK STONE. When Black Stone was stolen still Fatimid Era Imams and Ismailis faced to Ka'ba for Salat, now you educate your self.
Mata Salamat performed 3 Hajjs with permission of MSMS. To which direction she faced to say Salat?
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Why we face Ka'ba while performing Eid Namaz, Janazah Namaz, and Juma Namaz?
I know for sure we don't face Ka'ba when performing Eid Namaz. For the other two I am not quite sure.


You pretend not to know. In Central Asian countries where Ismailis live, in Afghanistan, China, Pakistan, India, Middle East, Ismailis face Ka'ba to say Eid Nama, Janazah Namaz, Juma Namaz. Regarding USA, Canada, mostly Europe, and African countries it is free for all. If I shall write about this, the ADMIN will send me back to Timbuktu as he keeps threatening me.
In which direction MSMS faced to say Salat, proof is in many photos.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which direction is Kaba. In North America half of the Masjid face Kaba in the north west direction and the other half in the south west direction, please educate your self first, is the distance shorter in the north east or in the south east?

And reply the question instead of trying to divert. If you don't know which direction to pray in the future world, just admit it instead of ridiculing yourself.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
Which direction is Kaba. In North America half of the Masjid face Kaba in the north west direction and the other half in the south west direction, please educate your self first, is the distance shorter in the north east or in the south east?

And reply the question instead of trying to divert. If you don't know which direction to pray in the future world, just admit it instead of ridiculing yourself.


You did not comment on my following question.
Mata Salamat performed 3 Hajjs with permission of MSMS. To which direction she faced to say Salat?

Also to which direction MSMS faced to say salat, official photos are available.
To which direction Mowla Ali faced to say salat?

What you have to say about majority of Ismails face Ka'ba while saying Eid Namaz, Janazah Namaz, Juma Namaz? You can not deny this fact.

No need to worry about farthest future, down the road neither you nor myself will be present after 5000 years. Planet Earth is rotating and Ka'ba is staying where it is. Once the direction is set, there shall be no change later.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Once the direction is set, there shall be no change later.


Do you even realise what you are saying and how ridiculous an answer this is to explain where your descendants will turn while residing in Ganymede or other planets???????

Ismailis believe Allah is everywhere all the time so we are not bothered by this question but you as a pure Shariati praying toward Kaba and believing this is the only place where Alla reside, you should be worried.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Once the direction is set, there shall be no change later.


Do you even realise what you are saying and how ridiculous an answer this is to explain where your descendants will turn while residing in Ganymede or other planets???????

Ismailis believe Allah is everywhere all the time so we are not bothered by this question but you as a pure Shariati praying toward Kaba and believing this is the only place where Alla reside, you should be worried.


Please do not divert the attention of readers. Still you did not replied my core questions, why are you shying. Why Ali faced Ka'ba while praying. Still his descendants are doing same. Don't they know Allah is in all directions? Why majority of Ismailis face Ka'ba while saying Eid Namaz and Janazah Namaz.
Pir Sadardin and other Pirs performed HAJJ, to which direction in Mecca they face to say salat. Was Pir Sadardin not aware that Allah's Noor is every where?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow the Imam of the Time and all your questions will disappear.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20955

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Pir Sadardin and other Pirs performed HAJJ, to which direction in Mecca they face to say salat. Was Pir Sadardin not aware that Allah's Noor is every where?
We don't follow what the Peers did or do. We follow what they tell us to do. Has Peer Sadardeen mentioned that we must perform Hajj in his Ginans?
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
Follow the Imam of the Time and all your questions will disappear.


That what I am doing. I memorized the meaning of Du'a and follow what Preamble says. Still waiting for reply," When Mata Salamat performed Hajj to which direction she faced to say salat in Mecca"?


Last edited by shivaathervedi on Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

Pir Sadardin and other Pirs performed HAJJ, to which direction in Mecca they face to say salat. Was Pir Sadardin not aware that Allah's Noor is every where?
We don't follow what the Peers did or do. We follow what they tell us to do. Has Peer Sadardeen mentioned that we must perform Hajj in his Ginans?


The first Pir The Prophet (according to satpunthi Ismailis) performed hajj and encouraged his followers to do so. Please remember it was hajj occasion where Prophet designated Ali as Imam. I consider Pirs as role models. Pir Sadardin's Ginans have not restricted performing Hajj.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:


That what I am doing. I memorized the meaning of Du'a and follow what Preamble says. Still waiting for reply," When Mata Salamat performed Hajj to which direction she faced to say salat in Mecca"?


How is that relevant to your life? Mata Salamat did many thing whcih you are not doing. Memorising Dua is useless as you did not understand the meaning of the Dua. Are you going to call on the Imam in the moment of difficulties, the same one which you say is making matrimonial and other mistakes, the defective one? Or are you going to call on Mata Salamat? What exactly is your religion if you have one? Please do not repeat "I am Ismaili", Ismaili means the one who follows the Imam.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:


That what I am doing. I memorized the meaning of Du'a and follow what Preamble says. Still waiting for reply," When Mata Salamat performed Hajj to which direction she faced to say salat in Mecca"?


How is that relevant to your life? Mata Salamat did many thing whcih you are not doing. Memorising Dua is useless as you did not understand the meaning of the Dua. Are you going to call on the Imam in the moment of difficulties, the same one which you say is making matrimonial and other mistakes, the defective one? Or are you going to call on Mata Salamat? What exactly is your religion if you have one? Please do not repeat "I am Ismaili", Ismaili means the one who follows the Imam.


I am 'The Ismaili' who follow teachings of Imam. Please pay attention to my quote. I wrote," I memorized the meaning of Du'a", but you wrote,
"Memorising Dua is useless as you did not understand the meaning of Du'a".

I know the meaning well word by word. In difficulty we call on Ali as he is intercessor what Du'a teaches. We say in Du'a " ALLAHUMA BI HAQQI MOWLANA ALI, MOULANAL HUSSAIN.......... WA BI HAQQI MOULANA WA IMAMINAL HADHIRIL MOUJUD SHAH KARIMIL HUSSAINI.....". (6TH PART).

During Hajj MATA did faced to ka'ba while saying salat. It is compulsory for all Muslims performing Hajj. As per your habit and ideology you shy to accept it because it negates your thinking.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said Shariati Wahabi interpretation of the Dua, that is what you know, not the meaning. You just proved my point.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20955

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
[
The first Pir The Prophet (according to satpunthi Ismailis) performed hajj and encouraged his followers to do so. Please remember it was hajj occasion where Prophet designated Ali as Imam. I consider Pirs as role models. Pir Sadardin's Ginans have not restricted performing Hajj.
The context of the Prophet was different than the present. I have not come across any Farman of the last two Imams about going to Hajj. Of course no one is preventing anyone from performing it.

The spiritual capacities of the Peers are much greater than ordinary murids. For example, Peer Sadardeen performed meditation for 16 hours a day. This is beyond the capacity of murids. Hence they cannot be our models.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
[
The first Pir The Prophet (according to satpunthi Ismailis) performed hajj and encouraged his followers to do so. Please remember it was hajj occasion where Prophet designated Ali as Imam. I consider Pirs as role models. Pir Sadardin's Ginans have not restricted performing Hajj.
The context of the Prophet was different than the present. I have not come across any Farman of the last two Imams about going to Hajj. Of course no one is preventing anyone from performing it.

The spiritual capacities of the Peers are much greater than ordinary murids. For example, Peer Sadardeen performed meditation for 16 hours a day. This is beyond the capacity of murids. Hence they cannot be our models.


The Farman about Hajj is 'FARMAN E JARIYAH', none of Imam has stopped it since time of Ali.

MSMS said in one of his Farmans; TAMEY KOSHISH KARO TOU TAMEY PUNN PIR SADARDIN JEVA THAI SHAKO CHHO. If you try hard can become like Pir Sadardin. Option is there.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

MSMS said in one of his Farmans; TAMEY KOSHISH KARO TOU TAMEY PUNN PIR SADARDIN JEVA THAI SHAKO CHHO. If you try hard can become like Pir Sadardin. Option is there.
Of course once you become like Pir Sadardin, you can act like him. However most of us don't become like Pir Sadardin immediately.

Hence while we are striving to become like him, we must not take him as a model.

It is like an ordinary person trying to run a marathon before training himself to become a marathon runner.
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aatimaram



Joined: 12 Apr 2018
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

MSMS said in one of his Farmans; TAMEY KOSHISH KARO TOU TAMEY PUNN PIR SADARDIN JEVA THAI SHAKO CHHO. If you try hard can become like Pir Sadardin. Option is there.
Of course once you become like Pir Sadardin, you can act like him. However most of us don't become like Pir Sadardin immediately.

Hence while we are striving to become like him, we must not take him as a model.

It is like an ordinary person trying to run a marathon before training himself to become a marathon runner.


You wrote," Hence while we are striving to become like him, we must not take him as a model". It is human tendency and compassion to look at role model and try to become like him. Teenagers look at Bolt and want to be fast runner like him, so he is role model. Likewise in cricket youngsters look at Bradman, Tendulkar, Dhoni, Kapil, Imran to become a famous cricketer. In soccer like Pele, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo, they are role models. In Tennis, Serena, Federer, Nadal are role models.
Was Prophet Muhammad not a role model in ethical values, humanity, and social work. In same way I consider Pir Sadardin as role model try to follow him.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aatimaram wrote:

Was Prophet Muhammad not a role model in ethical values, humanity, and social work. In same way I consider Pir Sadardin as role model try to follow him.
Your language sounds like that of shivaathervedi, so welcome back! The Prophet was not a role model, hence we do not follow the sunna of the Prophet.
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aatimaram



Joined: 12 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
aatimaram wrote:

Was Prophet Muhammad not a role model in ethical values, humanity, and social work. In same way I consider Pir Sadardin as role model try to follow him.
Your language sounds like that of shivaathervedi, so welcome back! The Prophet was not a role model, hence we do not follow the sunna of the Prophet.


Aatimaram tamey bara giyani

Quran says: LAQAD KAAN LAKUM FI RASULILLAHI USWATAN HASANAH.

Your statement can't be above Quran.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aatimaram wrote:

Quran says: LAQAD KAAN LAKUM FI RASULILLAHI USWATAN HASANAH.

Your statement can't be above Quran.
The present Imam does not attend Jamat Khana but tells us to attend regularly. Hence he is not a role model!
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aatimaram



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
aatimaram wrote:

Quran says: LAQAD KAAN LAKUM FI RASULILLAHI USWATAN HASANAH.

Your statement can't be above Quran.
The present Imam does not attend Jamat Khana but tells us to attend regularly. Hence he is not a role model!


As per your habit you took the U turn. Do you believe in ayat which I quoted from Quran. Do you expect Imam to attend Jamat Khana regularly in Toronto, or Montreal? He says his prayers where or in which place he is. He is role model in ethical values, charity, philanthropy, patience, as a good listener and so on.
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aatimaram



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
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Very bad habit! What made you to delete my post? There was no mention of you. It was a general post. You presented your RESEARCH and I explained myself. I wrote; I do not own a smart phone or a computer in my name. What was wrong with that.
You are good at counting IPs, keep it up.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aatimaram wrote:
Do you expect Imam to attend Jamat Khana regularly in Toronto, or Montreal? He says his prayers where or in which place he is. He is role model in ethical values, charity, philanthropy, patience, as a good listener and so on.
He does not attend Jamat Khana wherever he may be. If he is not a role model in this important and fundamental aspect of our lives, then he cannot be considered as a role model.
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mazharshah



Joined: 18 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
aatimaram wrote:
Do you expect Imam to attend Jamat Khana regularly in Toronto, or Montreal? He says his prayers where or in which place he is. He is role model in ethical values, charity, philanthropy, patience, as a good listener and so on.
He does not attend Jamat Khana wherever he may be. If he is not a role model in this important and fundamental aspect of our lives, then he cannot be considered as a role model.


Imam Hasan Ali Shah, Imam Ali Shah, and Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah did attend JK with jamaits.
In Asal Dua it was recited " PIR TOU DUA PADHEY, BUNDHO TOU VENTI LAREY, SACHO SHAH TOU QABOOL KAREY ". The first part of sentence is PIR TOU DUA PADHEY, therefore Imam being Pir recites Dua.
If Imam attends Chief JK at Dua time in Toronto, all jamaits will rush to attend Cheif JK to be with Imam and scores of JKs in Toronto area will be locked for that occasion. The Chief JK in Toronto can absorb say 5000 jamaitis, how volunteers will handle 25000, there will be disturbance. Same situation can happen in Karachi.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back aatimaram! You say that the Prophet and the Imams are your role models. Did the Prophet keep hiding himself under different names and identities? Does the present Imam do that?
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mazharshah



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
Welcome back aatimaram! You say that the Prophet and the Imams are your role models. Did the Prophet keep hiding himself under different names and identities? Does the present Imam do that?



My answer to your above post is your post dated Oct 17, 2018.

kmaherali

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:51 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Yedlin: Aga Khan a model for us all.

Yedlin: Aga Khan a model for us all.

Yes, Avtars came in disguise of different names in yugas.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazharshah wrote:

Yes, Avtars came in disguise of different names in yugas.
You mean that the Imam could call himself Karim one day and mazhar the following day?
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mazharshah



Joined: 18 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazharshah wrote:
kmaherali wrote:
aatimaram wrote:
Do you expect Imam to attend Jamat Khana regularly in Toronto, or Montreal? He says his prayers where or in which place he is. He is role model in ethical values, charity, philanthropy, patience, as a good listener and so on.
He does not attend Jamat Khana wherever he may be. If he is not a role model in this important and fundamental aspect of our lives, then he cannot be considered as a role model.


Imam Hasan Ali Shah, Imam Ali Shah, and Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah did attend JK with jamaits.
In Asal Dua it was recited " PIR TOU DUA PADHEY, BUNDHO TOU VENTI LAREY, SACHO SHAH TOU QABOOL KAREY ". The first part of sentence is PIR TOU DUA PADHEY, therefore Imam being Pir recites Dua.
If Imam attends Chief JK at Dua time in Toronto, all jamaits will rush to attend Cheif JK to be with Imam and scores of JKs in Toronto area will be locked for that occasion. The Chief JK in Toronto can absorb say 5000 jamaitis, how volunteers will handle 25000, there will be disturbance. Same situation can happen in Karachi.


To kmaherali;
You did not answer my above post, " Pir tou Du'a pardhey"?
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