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GINAN 'GUN TERA SAMI RAJA'

 
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: GINAN 'GUN TERA SAMI RAJA' Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad:
Feeling recharged after Didar.

I like the tune n the wordings of this Ginan when recited.
There are two lines,which is mostly not recited along with the Ginan,where I personally hear it. Please let me also know from your JK?

The Lines are:
"JE GUR HAAL NIVEDIN BHAI, SATGUR NOOR PYARAA.

NOORE NOORAJ MILYA BHAI ,NOORE TAA NOOR SAMAYA.

It looks like very spiritual n devoted lines of the Ginan.

What is the generalized meaning of these two lines ?

Does the Pir/Momin has to experience/ have status before Death or after Death ?

Please let us share our views on this beautiful Ginan by Pir Sadarddin.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is devotional ginan going in to advance religous phase.
It is in simple gujrati layman language.
In this two line.you have to also read the line before n after it for totality.
The Blessed Pir tries to say that gur is your mind, Haal is status and nived(niveda)is sloution or solace in love of noor of Satguru (ALI).
He is directing in short but beautiful sufi words to sit in Ibadaat n fall in love with the Noor of ALI ( Aashique). With that effort.
your soul (noor) will meet the God (ALI),which is when you experience Baatin Didar. n last words Noore ta Noor samaya,Which you unify your
with the Noor of ALI,that is Aasal me Wasal,Tawhid.Noorani Didar.
In simple terms it mean. With Ibaadat n Aashique ,you will realize Baatin and Noorani Didar.

I personally feel our religious board and Al Waez may be falling short in delivering to the Jaamat as desired by MHI.( my personal opinion,no debate please).

In the JK ,I attend,almost every morning (90% ofthe time) since last 80 years,they recite the Ginan of 'Jirewala' with lakh choryasi baand maa thi chodavya" before the Dua. Mostly recited by elders in turn.
I was serious,but told them jokingly.

AAP LOG JIREWALA BOLTE HO,ZARUR JIREWALA(JAAMAT) KE DIDAR HOTE HAI AAP LOG KO. AGAR AAP LOG 'ALI ALI' BOLTE. TO SHAYAD ALI KE BHI DIDAR HO SAKTE THE?

They all started laughing,most heartily n some of those who laughed grumpily. So what's your call?


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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
AAP LOG JIREWALA BOLTE HO,ZARUR JIREWALA(JAAMAT) KE DIDAR HOTE HAI AAP LOG KO.

Nuseri:- The meaning you wrote above for the word "JIREWALA" AS JAMAT is totally wrong, the true meaning of "Jirewala" is my dear, or you can tell "My dear brother" but off course not the jamat.
Pir is talking about the salvation and how to get rid of 184,000 ( actual numbers should be 1.84.000.00) reincarnations ( rebirth)


Last edited by agakhani on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5812

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:

Pir is talking about the salvation and how to get rid of 184,000 reincarnations ( rebirth)


Lakh Chorasi means 84 x Lakh, which comes to 8.4 Millions of rebirths as follow:

35 lakh in mineral world [starting with the dust of the road]
25 lakh in plants and vegetable world
16 lakh in animal kingdom
8 lakh in human form. [if no recognition of the Imam in this last chance, next rebirth is as dust of the road and restart of the lakh chorasi fera]

one lakh equal 100,000

I thought such correction was necessary.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Admin:Ya Ali madad.
You have put fear in the heart of non Ismaili bloggers,for not recognizing the Imam of the Time.

To;Agakhani.
Well the exact meaning of word 'my dear' means' Mara wallah'.( for Jamaat)
n not jirewala or jirewalah.

( what is the exact transliteration of it?).
Even IF it is 'my dear' for your sake.
He is addressing this Ginan to listeners n attendees of those time ,who
are now commonly referred to Jaamat( listeners,attendees,believers).
100 years back, Khojas were called Jirewala with respect by non Ismailies.

The word 'Jirewala 'same time back was used for jamat to address them by Mukhis of those time.
e.g Jamaat please keep silence
or
allameriya shanti rakho/khamosh thau.
the word 'Jirewala' is now replaced by these two or other words in Khoja traditions.
I am 100% right in taking the word Jirewala/Jirewalah as Jamaat of present time,while listening to It in J.K

I have observed that quiet a few times your posting SADLY reflects upon your
quality of qualification n quality of your understanding of the books u have.
I firmly stand by my understanding of the word.

Also Admin is questioning your SAD understanding of the figure of 'lakh choryasi.'

I have not used this Ginan to interpret or debate.
Only that this segment of the Ginan is recited daily as an order( I do not know of whose) out of few hundred Ginans with greater essence/rhytem in them also available for recitation.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember a lecture in Toronto where the lecturer mentionned that the Anant Akhado had 9 paragraphs starting with Jirewala instead of Ashaji but that was in some manuscripts mentionned at the SOS Khojki Conference in 1990 or 1991 I believe...
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have observed that quiet a few times your posting SADLY reflects upon your
quality of qualification n quality of your understanding of the books u have.
I firmly stand by my understanding of the word.


And which is 100% wrong but I can say even further it is 1000% wrong, please do not through your wrong meaning of the ginans with little or no knowledge in ginans.

True is always bitter for you, and in your case that is absolutely right.

Read what the translator make the meaning of the word Jire wala?? and keep your mouth shut.


[/code]JEERE VAALAA DHANRE GHADDEE
BY SAYYED MOHAMMED SHAAH
jire vaalaa dhan re ghaddee jo din sa(n)t padhaaryaa
alee ma(n)i taa din kee balee haaree
re vaalaa ghar aa(n)gann maaraa pavitra keedhaa
moro jeev janam sadhaaree
re vaalaa dhan re ghaddee jo din sa(n)t padhaaryaa....1

jire vaalaa - dear brothers
balee haaree - offering, sacrifice
sadhaaree(sudhaaree) - improve


Dear brothers, happy and glorious was the momemt when the Saint(Guide) visited me.
I offered sacrifices to Ali on that day. Brothers, this made my house and it's precinct
holy and improved the condition of my soul(elevated it).
Happy was the moment when the Saint(Guide) visited me.


jire vaalaa jaan ajaan bhaye kirataar th
saadh sabhaa sukh kaaree
re vaalaa paaras parshe, lohaa rang palatte
to jag mag jot ujaaree
re vaalaa dhan re ghaddee jo din sa(n)t padhaaryaa....2

saadh - enlightened person
sabhaa - gathering; (morning?)

Dear brothers, knowingly and unknowingly, I embraced the Creator. In the company
of the enlightened person I experienced peace and joy(was transformed). Brother this
was in a manner of the philosopher's stone transforming the colour of iron.
The twinkling and flashing of the Light uplifted(enlightened) my mind.
Brother, happy was the moment when the Saint(Guide) visited me.


jire vaalaa adham odhaarann sa(n)t sadhaarann
par aatmaa upakaaree
re vaalaa vi(n)dit ved gaae gunn gitaa
so akall purush avataaree
re vaalaa dhan re ghaddee jo din sa(n)t padhaaryaa....3

adham(adharmee) - irreligious, impious and sinful person
odhaarann - to liberate
akall - incomprehensible
purush - male personality

Dear brothers, He(the Guide) liberates the ignorant and sinful and improves
the pious saints i.e., He elevates other souls. Brother, this is mentioned in the
sacred literature and the Gita also sings about this virtue. This male personality
(the Imaam) is indeed an incomprehensible manifestation.Brother, happy was
the moment when the Saint(Guide) visited me.

jire vaalaa sa(n)t charann raj sureenar ichhe
dharam raaha sardhaaree
re vaalaa naav rupe jug taarann karannaa
to bhav bhaye bhanjan haaree
re vaalaa dhan re ghaddee jo din sa(n)t padhaaryaa....4

charann raj - clay at the feet of
dharam rahaa - the path of religion
sardhaaree(sardaaree) - leadership
naav rupe - in the form of a boat
bhav - age, time
bhay - fears, anxieties
bhanjanhaar - remover of, breaker of

Dear brothers, the pious momins desire even the clay at the feet of the Saint(Guide).
He is indeed the leader of the Path of religion. Brother, in the form of a boat He takes
us across the ocean(of material existence) and all the fears and anxieties of the age
are removed under His protection.
Brother, happy was the moment when the Saint(Guide) visited me.


jire vaalaa or upaay nahi hay taran ko
ye hay taranakee baaree
re vaalaa chott na laage us sa(n)t ku
jamaddaa rahyaa jakh maareeyaa
re vaalaa dhan re ghaddee jo din sa(n)t padhaaryaa....5

or upaay - no other remedy
jakh maareeyaa - to become powerless
jamaddaa - agent of death

Dear brothers, there is no other remedy for the salvation of your souls. This is the only
means of crossing over(the ocean of material existence). The head of the saint is not
burdened by the thoughts of death because the agent of death becomes powerless
against the Light of the Guide which makes the person immortal.
Brother, happy was the moment when the Saint(Guide) visited me.


jire vaalaa hari gunn sa(n)t sadaa sir more
to jugaa jug sharann sadhaaree
re vaalaa jaagyaa bhaagye gur soh dev bhettyaa
to sayyed muhammed shaah karaaree
re vaalaa dhan re ghaddee jo din sa(n)t padhaaryaa....6

Dear brothers, the saintly person always bows his head(in aknowledgement) of the
praises of the Lord. This self surrender to the higher will improves until immortality is
achieved. Brothers, this happens when good fortune arises and you are embraced by
the Light of Peer Sadardeen(the Guide). This is a (timeless) promise given by Sayyed Mohammed Shaah.
Brother, happy was the moment when the Saint(Guide) visited me.

jire vaalaa - dear brothers
balee haaree - offering, sacrifice
sadhaaree(sudhaaree) - improve


Should I need to say any thing more?
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also Admin is questioning your SAD understanding of the figure of 'lakh choryasi.'


Admin and I both right he only made more clarification and it was my numerical mistakes but I know the exact figure of lak chorasi don't you believe this??? then read what I wrote on April 13, 2011( almost 2 and half year ago) about the word Lakh Chorasi births and its more detail, so don't lie that Admin is not agree with my post.


[/b]
Code:
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:49 am    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Admin,

Thanks for the correction on word 'LAKH CHORASI" you forced me to dig dictionary to find out real meaning of this word thanks for that, look what I found? as per ginans, there are 84 lakhs yonis ( births) of different creatures from sea, sky and earth and they are as follows:-

SEA CREATURES 9 LAKHS
SMALL CREATURE (SKY, EARTH) 20 LAKHS
WORMS 11 LAKHS
BIRDS 10 LAKHS
ANIMALS 30 LAKHS
HUMAN 4 LAKHS

TOTAL 84 LAKHS

Please note lakh means one hundred thousands 1x 84 = 84 x1000=
84000.00 lakhs, you can tell it 8.4 millions in USA math. ( I highlighted and underlined this sentences at bottom also.

In all of above births human birth (yoni) is great and superior,(ASHRAFUL MAKHLUKAT) but it is very hard to obtain, so all human being should need to do good deeds only so they don't have to wandering in these yonis again and again, any souls can receive salvation, fanafillah or moksh in human birth only, that is why human birth is superior so we should not waste it.

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[b][u]Please note lakh means one hundred thousands 1x 84 = 84 x1000=
84000.00 lakhs, you can tell it 8.4 millions in USA math.
[/u][/b]


The above post clearly says that I knew the meaning of "Lakh Chorasi" births but it was my numerical mistake which I accept it, Look here when I made mistake I humbly accepted it, but look at you if some one prove you wrong FOR EXAMPLE IN ABOVE GINAN? ( and I have proved you wrong many time before ) but you never accepted it!!! because it is your old bad habits! and that bad habit is let me Lemma repeat it here not to believe even you know that your are wrong! Bro, be open minded and start to accept your mistakes that way you can learn more but ........you never accepted your mistakes before and you will not accept in future, this is the reality and that is the bottom line for you.
Aapne yeh Muhawara jaroor suna hoga? MIYA BHAI GIR GAYE LEKIN UNKI TANGADI UNCHI RAKHI "' Don't you think it is fit very well to you?


Last edited by agakhani on Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 497

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
agakhani wrote:

Pir is talking about the salvation and how to get rid of 184,000 reincarnations ( rebirth)


Lakh Chorasi means 84 x Lakh, which comes to 8.4 Millions of rebirths as follow:

35 lakh in mineral world [starting with the dust of the road]
25 lakh in plants and vegetable world
16 lakh in animal kingdom
8 lakh in human form. [if no recognition of the Imam in this last chance, next rebirth is as dust of the road and restart of the lakh chorasi fera]

one lakh equal 100,000

I thought such correction was necessary.


i m little confused now many peoples said to me include u that if u dont recognized Imam then u will restart ur lakh chorasi fera BUT i listen in waez of late abu ali that frm 84 lakh fera we get 7 fera or chances in ismaili deen but if we lose all chances we will not reapet lakh chorasi fera,
Mowla destroy our JEEV and rub it frm this universe....?????

another question???

about 4 years ago i listen thy firman of Imam sultan mohd shah (i dont know thy exact word) in this firman Imam said that..

"AB MERA KOI BHI MURID BICHOO(SCORPION), SAMP(SNAKE) KA JANAM LE KER DUNIYA MA NAI AYE GAA"...????

anyone know any thing regarding this..??????
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
anyone know any thing regarding this..??????


Very good Question Shinan!.
Once we achieved the human body means we had already passed that 84.000.00 births as per our ginans and purans, but in other religions they believe that if you do bad deed as a human bodies you have to restart that 84.000.00 Yonis again but with the grace of our MHI (and as you quoted above) we do not have to go that "lakh chorasi" cycle again and again, it is blessing from our Imam and it is because we born as an Ismailis.

That is also true that we received 8 chances in this Kali Yug, (it was 35 in Karta yug, 25 treta yug, 16 in Dwapar yug and 8 in this Kali yug) you probably heard about this ginan of Syeda Imam Begum in this ginan she is telling about how many avatar ( birth ) we receives.

એજી, પાંત્રીસ ને પચવીસ, સોલ ને આઠ,
વાર ચોરાસી ફરીયો ત્યારે માનખા જનમ ધરિયો."

"Eji, Pantris ne pachavis, solah ne Aath,
var chorasi fario tyare mankha jaanaam dhariyo."

Quote:
agakhani bhai why pakistani's..???? icon_rolleyes.gif icon_rolleyes.gif


Not for all Pakistani Shinan but for some "Ziddi" and "Adiyal" individuals, you know whom I talking about??
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Admin:
Ya Ali Madad

Why have you deleted my posting made 8 hours back in the morning?.Somebody is getting carried away with your help.

Soul of an Ismaili in blessed in human forms moves upward from Tariqat towards Marifat via Haqiqat.

So Haqiqati Momins should sleep in peace n strive for Marifat.

ALI IS ALWAYS ALWAYS THERE WAITING EARNESTLY FOR US.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
To Admin:
Ya Ali Madad
Why have you deleted my posting made 8 hours back in the morning?.


All postings that bring no long term value to the discussion will henceforth be deleted promptly. Please stick to the subject and be polite. This applies to every member.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Agakhani: Ya Ali Madad.

You have posted verses of the Ginans
n translation as 'Dear Brothers' as granted for the word Jirewala.
who is competent person who has translated.
I do take any translation for granted even if it is by our board.
If the word wahla mean 'Dear' is accepted.
How is one 100% sure than word Jire' means 'brother.'
What is the translation of it from any Gujarati dictionary.
I asked this two persons in my JK,one a bhagat and one a Ginan lover highly educated person.
these are there's interpretation with logic;

1.from Bhagat: he say 'JI 'mean 'yes'. n Jirewala mean Sayer of Yes ( in context of ginan it should be taken as sayers of Yes to Faith).
he said wala is same as used in surnames or doer i.e cyclewala,kam karne wala n NOT wahla meaning 'Dear.'

2. from highly educated one
He said Jire is 'poetic call 'to be understood as OH n wahla means dear.
In plural form he said it means 'OH dear ones'.
and gave few examples from Hndi film songs.
I see reasoning in meaning explained by both of them.
Can you tell me the right meaning of the word Jire and not from a printed n assumed source.
As for translation by the Board.( an example)
In recent times MHI has used the word Meritocracy in Farmans,which is not from a dictionary but coined by Him.
Till today I hear the Farman translated in Gujarati. translated as 'Kabilyat" for meritocracy.

The nearest meaning of the word kabilyat is 'Ability'.MHI did not mean that rather beyond that. I am sure about it.

The translation according to me could have been 'gunvantu bharyu kabilyat' or 'Uttam/Awal darza nu kabilyat' befitting the intent of the word
mentioned in the Farman.
As I said I do not take translation of educated/scholars even if certified
for Granted where my study goes.
Dr 'Jirewala' over to you
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Admin



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 8 chances in the human kingdom to get the Vision of Imam, the last one in the Ismaili Faith rebirth.

If we miss these chances, do we disappear or do we get again another lakh chorasi chances?

Hazar Imam said the value of a person without faith is less then the dust of the road. The dust of the road is the first of the lakh chorasi. So for me, a person without faith is given in the next rebirth the opportunity to restart from the dust of the road to the next lakh chorasi steps of evolution.

Sultan Muhammad Shah said his Murids are found everywhere except in Hell. He said "Murids".
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sultan Muhammad Shah said his Murids are found everywhere except in Hell. He said "Murids".


Interesting!! but let me ask you this? the word "Murids" you used above is for we human beings or any other creation too? some creation also have "soul" and "intelligence" like dolphin, gorily e.t.c. it is hard to believe but I heard/read some where that the other creation also prays? what do you think about this kind prayer by other creation!!?
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You have posted verses of the Ginans
n translation as 'Dear Brothers' as granted for the word Jirewala.
who is competent person who has translated.
I do take any translation for granted even if it is by our board.
If the word wahla mean 'Dear' is accepted.
How is one 100% sure than word Jire' means 'brother.'
What is the translation of it from any Gujarati dictionary.
I asked this two persons in my JK,one a bhagat and one a Ginan lover highly educated person.
these are there's interpretation with logic;


I don't made the translation, the translator is well known Al-waiz.

According many dictionaries, actual word is વહાલા "VAHALA" not 'wala as told you by bhagat. In Gujarati, Hindi, Pakrit and Sanskrit the "VaHALA" means "dear "so the answer given by any bhagat is totally wrong ( looks like you never asked any one ) as long as "Jire wala" is concerned.

Another reason you are wrong is; in many ginans pir has used the word 'GAT JAMAT' ગત જમાત for jamat not "jire wala" for example

1, "GAT RE SAROVAR MA JILANTA, MOTI AMULAKH LADHAJI"
WHY PIR DIDN'T WROTE LIKE THIS 'JIRE WALA SAROVAR MA JILANTA MOTI AMULAKH LADHAJI!!!!!???? what you think??/
2,, " Sambhalo "Gat" Jamat Ji


The bottom line is you are trying to cover up your mistake by weird and unbelievable reasons but every body knows that how true you are? how Jiddi/ arrogate you are? and how much knowledge you have? if not all then I definitely knows that, that is for sure which pisses me off! give me a favor ask any 3rd grade student and I am pretty sure that he will tell the meaning of "JIRE WALA' as dear brothers not the jamat!!.

Simple is this!, If you do not know the meaning of any words please keep your mouth shut, because your wrong meaning will b remain floating around in cyber space many years to come and you are giving wrong direction to other peoples because Half knowledge is dangerous for every one,
The other things here in this forum there are many scholars who hold "PHD" degree in various fields they are well educated persons not 'HALI- MAWALI' who will believes your wrong meaning so, think twice before you write meaning of specially of Ginans.

Remember this Half knowledge is dangerous for every one, voh to aapko khadde me leke girenga lekin dusaro ko bhi sath leeke girenga! "'وہ تو آپکو خددمے لکی گرینگا لکنگ دسروکو بھی ساتھ لکی گرینگا


Last edited by agakhani on Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total
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nuseri



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agakhani:

Awaiting answer on 'Jirewala'. Is your escape in action?

In sermons n also in Quran ,major impacting statement/sermons/Ayats are addressed to Human,Angel and Jinns.(sermon of Imam AllahzikrSalam.
All these entities do pray to Ali+Lah (Allah)
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nuseri



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I missed your post.

In my earlier post,I wrote the word Jirewala being referred to to Jamat.
not the precise 'meaning' of that word.
your frustration made you choose that word.
first the meaning u gave was 'my dear' then changed it,after reading translation of a quack
n later to as meant 'Dear brothers'.

Pirs have specifically mentioned brother in other Ginan with the word 'Jire'
with Ginan starting from 'jire bhaire'
does that brother n brother.
100% of common sense jamAat will agree that' jirewala' is referred( not exact meaning) to 'Jamat'.
n now to the meaning;
What is competent of the Alwaez who translated it.

I challenge that Jirewahla is not 'Dear brothers' at all.

the translator took a easy way out from the word 'jire bhaire'of ginan series
translate,that was the level of his cleverness(not intelligence).
the correct translation is in plural from is.
' Oh Dear ones.'

Even the translation of the word Meritocracy was done by post graduates
of IIS under well known Alwaez his name starting with the word 'B'.
Anybody cant fool all the people all the time.
I am not game for it.
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but what about rebirth..??

Mowla said my murids not get rebirth but Pirs said we get rebirth if we not follow shahpir..,..?????
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebirth, reincarnation etc...

There are 5 pages on the subject at the link below, please read there

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=2548&start=0
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Shams, do not waste your time with zznoor,


Shams, I, agree with Admin some people are fruitless, they are arrogant persons, they will not accept their mistakes, even if you prove them wrong hundred times, but they will never believe. I can tell you this, I think! if Allah come in front of them face to face and tell them you are wrong they will not believe even believe to Allah !

I, heard and now I also believe some others who are bounce back again and again even if they got defeated many times ago, are receiving some kind money from their mentors, they intentionally come and try to make off balance readers faith but they are mistaken.

By the way it was nice to meet you in Austin but it was very short meeting, I had many questions to ask you, but may be next month as you told me.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali madad.
I will continue my debate with the elders in my JK.
I feel qualification papers of some blogger are not worth to wipe one's xyz.
Is was a debate in jest way(joking way of putting foward one's point).
It is relatad to the word 'Jire' not its meaning or reference but its near similarity to the word 'Jeera' an agricultural commodity.
I said to Elders that Ginan are like Jaljeera' a local drink to help digestion in stomach n 'Qasida' as Roohafza,a local drink.
I said Jaljeera will clear your stomach n may b mind,but roohafza will enrich your mind n soul as well.
we all laughed over it n had heated debate.It was one against five
one ALI ALI against five Jirewalas.
They were sentimentally attached to Ginans.I respected that given their ages now.
they agreed to two points,that Qasidas sound pleasant in listening but they do not understand it exact meaning.
n second one that Ginans are our traditions to be upholded not our Tariqa,which to be followed.
AfterI told them ,as they get regular waras for jirewala ginans,they all have a small dairy n folded sheet of written paper in their shirt pocket.
they read out from it during their recitation,I also recite Qasida without any notes.
again in jest I told them 'You all carry 'Jiragoli' packets( a digestive local sweet mix) in your pockets instead of that try to carry ALI ALI in your hearts.
They all went quiet on this laughingly later told me that I was disrespecting the Ginans in totality.
Even now I feel Ginans are recited may be without knowing the proper Zahiri meaning of it ,forget the Baatin aspect of it.
Even highly educated is unaware of exact meaning of one simple word a salutation of a Ginan ,I can guess n also observed what meaning they take out from simple Gujarati words.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5812

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imam said there are many meaning to each word in the Ginans.

I guess this means no one has the monopole of Wisdom and no one can say "my interpretation is the right one". If someone does say this, he would be in complete contempt of the Imam's Farmans.
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