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GINAN 'DAASI CHU TERI'
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: GINAN 'DAASI CHU TERI' Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad:

There is one Ginan,which I really like when recited by persons with good voice.

It is by Sayeeda Imam Begum.the Ginan is 'DASI TERI CHU'.

The last verses of the Ginan goes like.

JEE DIVAS MOULA AMANE ,PAAS TERAU JO JI.
PAKDI LE JO MAA RO HAAT,DAASI CHU TERI.

what are Al Waez explanation on it.

1.Is the day Moula will call her/us personally or in person?

2 Is it day of her/our death,when she is seeking HIS hand for next phase of life?

3.Is it just on the day of Qiyamat when she is seeking HIS hand?( zero support in transit phase)

I personally feel it is the second one, because(terau) calling is for the death and the bond of the sayeeda/momin with Imam to hold our hands 'Till Qiyamat' and not just on the 'Qiyamat day',because human life existed on earth from last 200 million years and end is nowhere near.

From the word 'calling' a couplet in an aggressive tone.

UMMAT ME IILM DENI HAI TERI.

UMMAT ME MAAN BADHAA NE HAI TERI.

YEH HAMARI KOSHISH HOGI.SAATH HAMARE REHNA 'ALI'

UMMAT BOLEGI ''YEH HAI ALI".PHIR HUME BULANA((calling) ALI.


In early part of this Ginan ,there is a line of moula saath aap jo/reh jo?
please if any momin can give that full line.
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: GINAN 'DAASI CHU TERI' Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
Ya Ali Madad:

There is one Ginan,which I really like when recited by persons with good voice.

It is by Sayeeda Imam Begum.the Ginan is 'DASI TERI CHU'.

The last verses of the Ginan goes like.

JEE DIVAS MOULA AMANE ,PAAS TERAU JO JI.
PAKDI LE JO MAA RO HAAT,DAASI CHU TERI.

what are Al Waez explanation on it.

1.Is the day Moula will call her/us personally or in person?

2 Is it day of her/our death,when she is seeking HIS hand for next phase of life?

3.Is it just on the day of Qiyamat when she is seeking HIS hand?( zero support in transit phase)

I personally feel it is the second one, because(terau) calling is for the death and the bond of the sayeeda/momin with Imam to hold our hands 'Till Qiyamat' and not just on the 'Qiyamat day',because human life existed on earth from last 200 million years and end is nowhere near.

From the word 'calling' a couplet in an aggressive tone.

UMMAT ME IILM DENI HAI TERI.

UMMAT ME MAAN BADHAA NE HAI TERI.

YEH HAMARI KOSHISH HOGI.SAATH HAMARE REHNA 'ALI'

UMMAT BOLEGI ''YEH HAI ALI".PHIR HUME BULANA((calling) ALI.


In early part of this Ginan ,there is a line of moula saath aap jo/reh jo?
please if any momin can give that full line.


One small correction - the word used by Sayyida Imam Begum is SAMI not Mowla

Sami has a different meaning - Mowla has a different meaning.

Shams
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad:
In the same ginan.
both the words are used for same meaning of a line.

'Har dum sami mara ridha mahee rehjo jee,hur dum moula mara ridha mahe reh jo jee.

Some comparable attributes are used for rythmical tuning/sounding of the lines.

Maybe Vedic/Hindu words have been replaced by the Tariqa board in many Ginans.

I feel my ears have failed me or the Ginan singers in my Jamat khana has changed the words.

The word swami (lord) is used to address the Imam of the time.

There are many Hindu words used in Ginans are there to address or hint to the Imam of the time(ALI).


Zahiri will go for the spelling n words,But Baatini will go in for essence of the verse in totality.

BTW,I am not much into study of Ginans per se,.I heard it on a Tariqa board CD played in JK.I may have also erred in my hearing.

You may have to raise the issue with the Board and not to an innocent and devoted listener.
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
Ya Ali Madad:
In the same ginan.
both the words are used for same meaning of a line.

'Har dum sami mara ridha mahee rehjo jee,hur dum moula mara ridha mahe reh jo jee.

Some comparable attributes are used for rythmical tuning/sounding of the lines.

Maybe Vedic/Hindu words have been replaced by the Tariqa board in many Ginans.

I feel my ears have failed me or the Ginan singers in my Jamat khana has changed the words.



The word swami (lord) is used to address the Imam of the time.

There are many Hindu words used in Ginans are there to address or hint to the Imam of the time(ALI).


Zahiri will go for the spelling n words,But Baatini will go in for essence of the verse in totality.

BTW,I am not much into study of Ginans per se,.I heard it on a Tariqa board CD played in JK.I may have also erred in my hearing.

You may have to raise the issue with the Board and not to an innocent and devoted listener.


No one can change anything in matters of tariqah without approval of the Imam - and as far as I am aware the Imam has never approved the change.

Sami is not a hindu or a vedic word - it is a word in sanskrit - which is a language - not a religion.

You speak of Baatini - when sung in the right manner - with the right meaning - this ginan is about a lover and a beloved - not about slave and master.

This ginan is composed in the spirit of a WIFE calling out to her SAMI - which is HUSBAND.

I wasn't attacking you - but rather correcting you.

A lot of things in our faith get changed because some "devotional" murid decides that Mowla is a better word or that another word can replace a word and the next person follows without realization in our zeal to be cool, or we have this identity crisis to be more "ARABIST" or more "NON INDIANS"..however the word Mowla was around when the Ginan was composed - in the mid 1800s by Sayida Imam Begum - and if she wanted to use the word MOWLA - she would have. She probably also sung this in the presence of the Imam of the time and Pir at that time - and if they didn't correct her - who are we?

Try using the correct words - in the correct frame of mind and you'll understand.

Tee Din Saami maane - paas tedavo ji..pakdi lejo maaro haath;

The meaning - in terms of calling the Lord - husband - speaks of the wedding night (wedding night also has many meanings - when one attains enlightenment - when one dies - as that is also considered the day that we marry the Imam, or many others)...and tells the beloved that on that night..call me to you - hold/caress my hand.....now in the Sami sense - that is a very intense - one on one relationship - just the murid and the mursheed.

Shams
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5905

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some meanings of SAMI copy paste from reliable Internet sources.

The meaning of Sami in Arabic is Elevated, Sublime, or Supreme. Sami is used in Arabic, and Turkish.

The name Sami is of Hungarian origin. The meaning of Sami is "God has heard". It is also of Persian origin, where its meaning is "high, Elevated"


According to late senior missionaries Abuali and Amirali Amlani, in Ginans you address God as Sami in the meaning the Lord who you want to hear your supplications and ginans use Mowla when you refer to God who sit on his throne to rule the world.


people are very fast in thinking that because a word has an Indian sound, it probably is Hindu. Of course this is part of the concept of "Clash of Ignorance" which also applies to most of us and is not restricted between the Muslim World and the Western World.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya ali madad:

Can u2 please re write the Ginan line u have of the line "Ridha mahe rehjo jee ".
IS THE WORD 'MOUWLA. IS USED ANY WHERE IN THIS GINAN IN TRACK R WORDINGS U POSSES.
I am absolute sure that both words Sami n Mouwla is used.(the pronunciation sounded Sami n not as Swami to me).

If meaning of both is different.

That implies Sayeeda had two entities to be in her heart.

If that is the case of two entities, the Ginan can be misleading.

Pious n Blessed Sufi like her would crave for just one word ALI,all other words are attributed to HIM.( by sheer co incidence the 3 alphabets in the word HIM and MHI are the same)

A religious poem does have to use word befitting the poem flow,composition n lyrics.

Please do not get stuck into memory of a late Al Waez futile stand on Ginans,as I have not heard a single Baatin maina from his sermon tapes.

I sincerely wish if Haqiqati Momins tries to expand the meaning of the verse rather than the academic composition of the words,where in Baatin implication of all words mean one n only 'ALI'.

By the grace of Mouwla,I have just received a SMS few seconds back from a hindu friend,worthy of posting here.

Intention kitna bhi achha ho
Duniya presentation dekthi hai.
Presentation kitna bhi accha ho
Uparwala intention dektha hai.

HUM TO SIRF DIL KI SUNTE HAI AUR CRITICS KI NAHI.
KAHI CRITICS HAMARE IMAAN TO KAMZOR NA KAR DE
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shamsB bhai said :

Quote:
No one can change anything in matters of tariqah without approval of the Imam - and as far as I am aware the Imam has never approved the change.

Sami is not a hindu or a vedic word - it is a word in sanskrit - which is a language - not a religion.

You speak of Baatini - when sung in the right manner - with the right meaning - this ginan is about a lover and a beloved - not about slave and master.

This ginan is composed in the spirit of a WIFE calling out to her SAMI - which is HUSBAND.



Thanks for sharing this with us....great info
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a_27826



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 321
Location: Da es salaam

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shiraz.virani wrote:
shamsB bhai said :

Quote:
No one can change anything in matters of tariqah without approval of the Imam - and as far as I am aware the Imam has never approved the change.

Sami is not a hindu or a vedic word - it is a word in sanskrit - which is a language - not a religion.

You speak of Baatini - when sung in the right manner - with the right meaning - this ginan is about a lover and a beloved - not about slave and master.

This ginan is composed in the spirit of a WIFE calling out to her SAMI - which is HUSBAND.



Thanks for sharing this with us....great info


Excuse me for not being religious as i am ought to be.

But how authentic are these ginans recited in JK......

Obviously they must have been written well after the pirs and sayyeds passed away by fallible people.

Have these ginans have been endorsed and approved by Hazar Imam ?

for example editing the the word "Hari" and changing it to "Ali"....

though there is nothing wrong by changing it if approved by the Hazar Imam, otherwise its not fair to the composers of the ginans, that is Pirs and Sayyeds.
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a_27826 said :

Quote:
Obviously they must have been written well after the pirs and sayyeds passed away by fallible people.


I personally think that every ginan is said & written by pir maa/baap themselves.

And I thank god that we don't have a compilation problem here icon_biggrin.gif
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
Ya ali madad:

Can u2 please re write the Ginan line u have of the line "Ridha mahe rehjo jee ".
IS THE WORD 'MOUWLA. IS USED ANY WHERE IN THIS GINAN IN TRACK R WORDINGS U POSSES.
I am absolute sure that both words Sami n Mouwla is used.(the pronunciation sounded Sami n not as Swami to me).

If meaning of both is different.

That implies Sayeeda had two entities to be in her heart.

If that is the case of two entities, the Ginan can be misleading.

Pious n Blessed Sufi like her would crave for just one word ALI,all other words are attributed to HIM.( by sheer co incidence the 3 alphabets in the word HIM and MHI are the same)

A religious poem does have to use word befitting the poem flow,composition n lyrics.

Please do not get stuck into memory of a late Al Waez futile stand on Ginans,as I have not heard a single Baatin maina from his sermon tapes.

I sincerely wish if Haqiqati Momins tries to expand the meaning of the verse rather than the academic composition of the words,where in Baatin implication of all words mean one n only 'ALI'.

By the grace of Mouwla,I have just received a SMS few seconds back from a hindu friend,worthy of posting here.

Intention kitna bhi achha ho
Duniya presentation dekthi hai.
Presentation kitna bhi accha ho
Uparwala intention dektha hai.

HUM TO SIRF DIL KI SUNTE HAI AUR CRITICS KI NAHI.
KAHI CRITICS HAMARE IMAAN TO KAMZOR NA KAR DE


I have the original book and word MOWLA IS NOT USED ANYWHERE IN THIS GINAN.

Hardam saami maaraa ridaah maanhe rahejo
alagaa ma thaajo ek saas
daasi chhun teri

This ginan is about total submission to the HUSBAND - the SAMI.
FYI - I have spent eons studying ginanic history and composition as an educational pursuit.

Shams
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a_27826 wrote:
shiraz.virani wrote:
shamsB bhai said :

Quote:
No one can change anything in matters of tariqah without approval of the Imam - and as far as I am aware the Imam has never approved the change.

Sami is not a hindu or a vedic word - it is a word in sanskrit - which is a language - not a religion.

You speak of Baatini - when sung in the right manner - with the right meaning - this ginan is about a lover and a beloved - not about slave and master.

This ginan is composed in the spirit of a WIFE calling out to her SAMI - which is HUSBAND.



Thanks for sharing this with us....great info


Excuse me for not being religious as i am ought to be.

But how authentic are these ginans recited in JK......

Obviously they must have been written well after the pirs and sayyeds passed away by fallible people.

Have these ginans have been endorsed and approved by Hazar Imam ?

for example editing the the word "Hari" and changing it to "Ali"....

though there is nothing wrong by changing it if approved by the Hazar Imam, otherwise its not fair to the composers of the ginans, that is Pirs and Sayyeds.


Please do not forgot or neglect the fact that Imam is Shah and Pir.

In the case of this ginan and other compositions by Sayeeda Imam Begum - they were composed in the mid 1800s - so not long ago and along with Sayyad Mohammed Shah's ginans - were the last to be added to the ginan canon that we have.

Keep in mind - that whilst the Imam may not approve changes - people in the past have rushed to "correct" our hindu leanings and guide us back to the ISLAMIC path.

One needs to realize that people will sing what they feel like singing - and if the individual reciting ginan feels that Mowla is more appropiate than Sami or Shah is more appropriate then they'll change it and the jamat follows suit - without realization
A case in point - the ginan Sham Kun Avanta.
The word Sham referes to the "dark one" - a word used to describe LOVER in Sanskrit.
The Pir's intent was to describe his and Pir Hasan Kabirdeen's joy at being summoned to the Imam's court in Kahek - having spent a year waiting for the message.
Sham Kun Avanta Jo Kahe - Taakhu Lakh Vadhai - Paanchi Saakhi Kero Vaalmo, tene miliyo re bhai...

"The Beloved has summoned us - a hundred thousand congratulations - from this group of 5 FEMALE (SAKHI is FEMALE) Friends"
See the beauty in the words....
And there were 5 people in the party waiting for the summons of the Imam
Pir Sadardeen and 2 of his disciples and Pir Hasan Kabirdeen and 1 of his disciples.

The sad thing is - when you call people out to correct them - the defense mechanism of "Intent" kicks in - not that - oh..we'll attempt to correct it so it is said in the correct sense..and we gain a deeper understanding...
but rather we know better than the Pirs and the Sayyads did - even though they all descended from Ahle-Bayt.

Shams
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To ShamsB:
Ya Ali Madad.

I am still unable to copy paste any previous posting.

The Ginan book released by Tariqa board in our country last year has the word mowla in the line I have referred,earlier it used be Sami

Both the words Sami n Mowla it there in early line of 'Riddha'.
It stays PUT for me and I am hearing that.

I have been told that word Sami is till used in Canada.

Seniors of our Jamat khana also recite Sami,as they are slowly adapting to change.

I asked few learned people,scholars n Bhagat.The meaning given by all of them in reference to this Ginan, that the word sami/moula means Lord and word Daasi means servant/slave.

Your understanding of verse of husband/lovers/marriage with Imam/ caressing of hand may be right with your best ability of understanding.For many may consider it as a seducing Ginan based on your views.

Any way I have posted two meaning the first zahiri of physical holding of hand
and second one of 'death calling(baatin)'. There is still further deeper noorani meaning to that verse,Still not yet fully done up.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sami is not a hindu or a vedic word - it is a word in sanskrit - which is a language - not a religion.


In Sanskrit and Prakrit the actual word is "स्वामीन" but it also written as 'स्वामी' as well but absolutely not as a "Sami" in current Sanskrit language.
There are many meaning of The word Swami according Sanskrit dictionary, I checked more then 50 different meanings of word swamin, actually the word 'Sami' is a colonial language as our pir has used in most ginans because colonial language was very easy to understand to illiterate peoples during their time
You can take any meaning from these words;husband; lord, master; owner; ruler, king; sadhu; term of address for saints and sadhus
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Agakhani: Ya Ali madad.

This posting is for essence of the verse may be not an academic finding.

The word 'Mowla' which I used from latest board book was straight n simple.
The original word 'Sami' in context to this Ginan.

To 'whom' the word Sami is addressed to by Sayeeda?

It was to one n one only 'ALI' ,Imam of the Time.

You have other than that Name,you have given 8 different names for the word Sami/Swami..

Admin n yourself have done excellent academic research for this word.
Can I proceed further with the permission of you two?
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nuseri



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Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Admin/Agakhani.
Ya Ali Madad.

As there is difference of understanding of the word 'Daasi' in context to this Ginan.
I wish to know the meaning of the word 'Daasi' in context to the Ginan and
also academic meaning of the standalone word 'Daasi'.
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Admin



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Posts: 5905

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say "Dasi" in this context means "submitted", in the sense "Abd" or "Abd Allah". submitted to the Will God.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad:

I read on a some notice board in an institution few time back.
Any new effort, project or work is first ridiculed then opposed and after some time accepted.
In this beauty of a Ginan,
Sayeeda says earlier:

Mowla to always always stay in her heart
and never be separated from her for even a breath space.

The Baatin essence of these two implies that Sayeeda soul is already unified with the Mowla in this life (Asal me Wasal/Tawhid).

Any poet of a Sufi such as her blessed status ask/pleads which we call giryazari usually at the end of the poem/Ginan.

She has done a very clever n intelligent composition here.
Upon my death.hold firmly my hand.

It is common belief that after death ,soul unifies with GOD.
She achieved that in her living blessed life.
So a soul like her status would unify like a Visa free entry with God.
THAT IS NOT THE CASE.
Every soul goes to phase of next life.
Here Sayeeda knows very very well that after her Death,her soul goes without mortal body to GOD.
She has DELIBERATELY prayed to hold her hand aftermath.

Because to hold her hands,"HE" has to bless her AGAIN with a Human body
By virtue of seeking this Giryazarii, Sayeeda is asking for a life with a Human body again in a Satpant religion,where A Bayat is accepted of a new born by the Imam( holding of hand) or thru 'Amr', Mukhi saheb in present times.

In short she has prayed for a LIFE in new body to again SEE,pray n sing for her Imam( Sami/Lord/Master).Difficult to believe ,But it is TRUE

THIS IS THE BEAUTY OF OUR SUFI FAITH RELISHED BY SAYEEDA WHILST LIVING


My personal observation of this Ginan,It would come under amongst finer Ginans in Khoja Tradition. At composition level but not at Pirantan (preaching) level she matched her stride with our Pirs,Sayeeds n Dai's .

Sufism just did not flourish 1000 years back during Fatimid or ended with Ginans of Pirs 700 years back or even 100 years back,when Sayeeda lived.
It is a living(thinking) part of our daily life of all Blessed Ismailis, Just realization with little effort is needed,
The PUSH and courage will come to all of us from one n only ALI,Imam of the time.

I will end with:

AHMED ALI ALI BOLIYA,PECHEE HONI HOI SO HOI REE.
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nuseri



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad.
Lately I been listening to Ginans and have noted it's rich content.There are many many Ginans which has deeper meanings than understood on its face value.

Here is a interesting info.During the forthcoming Blessed Deedar sessions in Mumbai.

Four Ginans have been selected that could be recited in presence of MHI.

1.Daasi chu tere.

2.Saheb ji tu moree man bhavee.

3.Guun tera sami rajaa,bakshi ye dosh hamara.

I missed to hear the 4 th one.
PLEASE GUESS WHICH GINAN IT CAN BE.

Please participate wholeheartedly.
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nuseri



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad.

The Ginan of SAHEBJI TU MOREE MUN BHAVEE. by Sayeed Mohamed

Shah,It will be the flagship Ginan to be recited in major Didar session to be held in Mumbai.
Before I share one line of this Ginan. A small antecedent.

When I was primary school.I do not know the grade.Then science was a common science subject with basics.We had a south Indian lady teacher.
In subject of water n even maths.

When she wrote' Water' on blackboard by default she would write (H20) immd after it all the times.

(I feel some of you may have had a teacher akin to it).
One of the student asked" Madam if you go to a restaurant, Would you order Water or (H2O), the whole class started laughing me too not at the student but the teacher,one of my friend said "Yeh pagal ho gayee hai".

We did move to secondary years n I realized that what she was adamant
is writing on that board was RIGHT n we were ignorant at that age/understanding.If I am writing in this forum by purpose something in bracket,I am not a ego maniac,the importance of that message should go thru loud n clear.

Now to the Ginan,there is a Line which says
'CHARE CHARE JUG MAHE FARI FARI JOOYU....."

As said about the Sayeed ,that he may moved around maximum 1000 square. miles
form his place of staying.
Did he picked it up from reading books?
NO NO NO.
Soul of Pirs n Sayeed have acheived the status of Noorani Hidayat.
By sheer practice of meditation,their soul cover all the going on of the past 'jugs' or civilizations
They are cent percent sure of what they have seen in Baatin is expressed as their conviction n sayings in Ginan.
In modern time study of soul or past life is called
'Past Life Regression".One can Google it to know more.
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nuseri



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad.

Just had blessed Didar Of ALI.
The Ginan recited in presence of MHI was

'AYE REHEM REHMAN,ABD TU RAHEM KARO. A favourite of K.Maherali,by the way How is he n his health n 'spirit'?

For me It was just like "Qiyamat ul Qiyamat"
Nothing less n nothing more.

Will try to express it in one line
AB TO DEKH BHI LEE MAI NE 'AAKHRAT' MERI.
AB TO ALI AUR ALI SIRF ALI ALI ALI.
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulation Nuseri to have Deedar of MHI.

I, thought you are residing in Karachi!! or in India?

One more Question, are you same like ME 'DUDH BECHNE VALE' ? this title awarded to us by Pakistani Khoja biradar (Thanks and in returned we used to tell them "CHANA MAMARA BECHNE WALE" as long as I concern, it is true because my parent/brothers had stable in Mumbai and in Hyderabad, Sind and we used sell milk.
I will kindly appreciated, if you give me a answer.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is my language Hindi or Urdu?

I may have been Ismaili since long.

I am now from Khoja Traditions.

I am not a Sidhpuri Momna.

BTW.Do you have copy of Budd Avatar of Pir?
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but I only have one copy which I received from a friend after many many request.
Here is one suggestion for you go to Garden Jamat Khana library they have copy of Budhha Avatar and many 'out of prints' ginans. Please remember that their are two ginans on Budhha Avatar one ginan composed by pir Sadardin and one ginan composed by Syed Imam Shah.

Quote:
Is my language Hindi or Urdu?

Hard to tell! cuz I haven't spoke with you except some time you write in shers in this forum but that way nobody can figured out that the writer is Urdu speaker or Hindi speaker? as a doctorate degree holder in language, I studied both languages deeply and I found that there are not much difference between these two languages except in alphabets, Urdu has much influence of Arabic and Persian language while Hindi language has much influence of Sanskrit language there for their alphabets are different.
FYI, I read and write 5 different languages including Urdu which I learned during my Pakistan stay and have more then 4000 books in my personal library
Quote:
I am now from Khoja Traditions.

What do you mean by using the word 'NOW'? are you just converted or your religion was different then Ismaili before? no joke but seriously I want to know!!
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Agakhani:Ya Ali madad.

It is amusing that cannot differentiate between Hindi n Urdu,In spite of being an expert on it.
Shiraz/Admin are doing better in language evaluation,they are not Doctorate.They will tell you.

More you read, greater the confusion in the mind.You are realizing inspite of having 4000 book bank n Googling,it is difficult to understand two lines in Quran.

I do not wish to buy/own that book.

Please if can post verses 95-99 from that book as actually written.not any translation or meaning of it.

What was Nuseri religion during Hazarat Ali's time?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5905

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:

What was Nuseri religion during Hazarat Ali's time?


He was a "Satpanthi", he was following the Sirat al Mustaqueem, the Right Path. (These are the same names in 3 different languages for the same religion)
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
More you read, greater the confusion in the mind.You are realizing inspite of having 4000 book bank n Googling,it is difficult to understand two lines in Quran.


It is old dialogue and it is outdated thinking; now a days the more you read you have more knowledge and our current Hazar Imam also insist us to read more and more.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is again one of your confused and grumpy statement.

Hazar Imam has never said read n read more.
His Farmans are seek knowledge.learning n education process.Totally different meaning from the word 'reading'

The word 'read,read' is NOT there.if at all it is there,it is ALWAYS coined with the word understanding of it.


The word used whose meanings are reading ,hearing, seeing n interacting,understanding,research n experiment of the written material.


Please if any Ginan lover n historian can post the extract of 5 verses I wish to see.I know there are few of them
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hazar Imam has never said read n read more.
His Farmans are seek knowledge.learning n education process.Totally different meaning from the word 'reading'


Brother,
I can write here at least dozen farmans of current Hazar Imam who referred us to read some well knows authors, and those authors were never wrote any books for getting knowledge, learning and for getting education!!

If you not read the farmans of current MHI then that is different story, but as I wrote above I can write here dozen farmans of MHI ,ek Urdu muhavara jo ki aap ko barabar fit hota hai: "KUE KE MEENDAK KO USKA KUA HI SARI DUNIA DIKHTI HAI"kyoki vo kabhi kue se bahar nikla hi nahi!!
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Agakhani:
Ya Ali madad.

Can you please post the extract of more than dozen Farmans of MHI with lines with place n date of the Farmans which says specifically 'READ AND READ MORE'.

Please give just two line of each Farmans.NO ESCAPIST ANSWER PLEASE.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nuseri,
I, have collected more then dozens farmans of mowlana hazar imam on reading but I will not post it here as per my own policy not to post farmans of any imams not only for this forum but it is for all forumz I on and off visits. However these farmans are not as you asked me in certain sentense, I.E. read more and more it is a understandable by any scholars , what I meant was the scool educatiom is not enough therefore you needs to reads more besides schoo, not only this but in some farmans HI suggested few names of the authors they were not religious person but a professional writers, MHI belives that school education is not enough in your life but getting continue education should be a part of your life.
If you want to know about those farmans then email me and I know you will not.
Sorry, it takes too much time but I have not forget it.
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