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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Who were 'HUSSAINY BRAHMINS''?
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Who were 'HUSSAINY BRAHMINS''?
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MR-FORGET



Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Who were 'HUSSAINY BRAHMINS''? Reply with quote

Does any one knows who were Hussainy Brahmins?

I read some where that they fought in battle of Karbala!! Totally stange news for me.
I am history lover and therefore I want to know the real reason why they fought that battle of Karbala?
if it is a true also I have few more questions which are as follows:-

1,If they were Hindus ( because Brahmins follows Hindu religion) then why they fought in battle of Karbala?

2, Who sent them over there? Why and how they reach in battle of Karbala?

3, Are their decedents still exists, any where?

This is very important topics for me as a history seeker and may be for other readers too, so please give more detail if anyone knows about Hussainy Brahmins.
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1239

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again brother thank you for sharing with me things that I personally have no knowledge about !!....Because of you I have to go into further detail just to find out about this very interesting stuff.

Please keep on posting and keep on asking those interesting questions !!....Thank You

http://smma59.wordpress.com/2007/09/19/brahmins-fought-for-imam-hussain-in-the-battle-of-karbala/
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1239

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Jang Nama, written by Ahmed Punjabi, pages 175-176, it was ordained on the Shias to recite the name of Rahab in their daily prayer. At the time to the Karbala, fourteen hundred Hussaini Brahmins lived in Baghdad alone
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 1759
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr-Forget

The link provided by Shiraz is good for brief detail but this link doen't have all answers of your other questions so basically I am trying to give you answer as per my little knowledge:-
Quote:
If they were Hindus ( because Brahmins follows Hindu religion) then why they fought in battle of Karbala?


Yes, they were Hindus but Magadh king CHANDRAGUPT MORYA sent them upon the request of Imam Hussain letter for help, because Imam Hussain's wife, the Persian princess Shahr Banu and wife of King Chandragupta Maher Banu (Hindu name Cahandralekha after marriage) were two sisters.

Quote:
2, Who sent them over there? Why and how they reach in battle of Karbala?


I already give the answer who sent them? i.e. Cahndragupt Moraya by the way when they reached in the battle of Karbala the battle was over and as per the order of YAZID PALID the head of Imam hussain and other shahids were being taken to the yazid, so they met with a disciple of the Imam, who arranged for them to stay in a special part of the town, which even today is known by the name of Dair-i-Hindiya or ‘the Indian quarter.
At same night the head of them show a bright light in the room where head of Imam Hussain was kept, so he realized that Imam was on right path and Yazid killed him in a revenge, so he decided to take revenge from Yazid soldiers so fight broken up among Yazid's soldiers and among this Brahmans and the head of Hussainy Brahman and his all son ( 11) died in this fight.

WHY THEY CALLED HUSSAINY BRAHMINS?

Some Dutt Brahmins, under the leadership of one Bhurya Dutt, got together with Mukhtar Saqafi to avenge the death of the Imam. They stayed behind in Kufa, while the rest returned to India. Here they built up a community of their own, calling themselves Hussaini Brahmins, keeping alive the memory of their links with the Imam.

Quote:
3, Are their decedents still exists, any where?


Yes they are, mostly they residing in Punjab and Bihar state in India and also in Pakistan and Afghanistan they still participate in ashura in month of Moharam.

Thanks for bringing this important and untouched topics on light in this forum. As Shiraz asked and I am also requesting you please bring more untouched topics like this in this forum.
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MR-FORGET



Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Once again brother thank you for sharing with me things that I personally have no knowledge about

Mr. Virani,

Thanks for your compliments, however, I also read this untouched story from a Shia history books, not long ago, Ismaili history is quiet about this event, and as long as I know it is not mentioned in 'Nooran Mubin' or any Ismaili history books.
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MR-FORGET



Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Some Dutt Brahmins, under the leadership of one Bhurya Dutt, got together with Mukhtar Saqafi to avenge the death of the Imam. They stayed behind in Kufa, while the rest returned to India. Here they built up a community of their own, calling themselves Hussaini Brahmins, keeping alive the memory of their links with the Imam.


To Mr. Agakhani,

Thank you very much, first I thought that may be nobody in this forum will know about this untouched topic but I am glad that you already knew this event, I salute you for you wide knowledge, by the way I still looking names of Shia books which you promise to give me on the event of" cursing to Hazarat Ali by Muavia".

p.s. I always read your and Mr. Virani's all posts.
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1666

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its unique information about which I had never heard. There may be some connections with Hazrat Ali and his son Muhammad Hanifya 's visits in India. Though history speaks little about it. There is qadam mubarak (foot prints) of Hazrat Ali in Sindh ( I am not sure whether it would be actually foot prints of Hazrat Ali or not) but many people believe it so and go to see there.
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1666

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing which is surprising to me here that all of these were from Brahmin caste. Traditionally it is "kshatriya" caste who are warriors and soldiers (I know that in certain stories, some Brahmins are depicted as having taken part in battle field)
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 1759
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is qadam mubarak (foot prints) of Hazrat Ali in Sindh ( I am not sure whether it would be actually foot prints of Hazrat Ali or not) but many people believe it so and go to see there.


I also read foot print of Hazarat Ali (s.a.) in one famous Gujarati books
'Pir Sabzali ni madhya Asia ni musafari" " પીર સબ્ઝાઅલીની મધ્ય એશિયાની મુસાફરી" very interesting books but the place mentioned in that book was some where in Hunza, Chitral or some where near Russian border. you live in Sind, you know better than us, and I don't say that there is no foot print in Sind, it is 100% possible but if you read history of Hazarat Ali (s.a.) then you will find that Hazarat Ali never visited any other countries besides Arabastan (Saudi Arabia) and Kufa
(Iraq).
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1666

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can not say any thing on authenticity of that foot print whether it is actually the one of Hazrat Ali or not. However, I have heard that during the time of first caliph Hazrat Ali went to different places about which not much is known in history.Secondly we know that Hazrat Ali was miracle accomplisher. Within a seconds he used to reach far off places to help out those who seek it.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 1759
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Secondly we know that Hazrat Ali was miracle accomplisher


If we accept that Hazarat Ali was miracle accomplisher (and of course he did many miracles in his life, (JANG E KHANDAK)) then it is possible that he may came in Sind. We Ismaili have faith and beleives that that Hazarat ali (s.a.) was 'KADIR MUTTALIK" he can do any thing if he wants to do.

There is a comon belife in we Ismailis that the first Imam who came in Indo-Pak was Hazarat Imam Hasan Ali Shah( s.a.) he came in Zirak, Sind in yeat 1842, but if we read the history of our Imam and ginan of our pirs then we can find out that Imam Kasamshah was the first imam who came in Jampudip first, He came in the town name 'Analwad" (called Patan now a days) during the time of Pir Shams (s.a.), when pir Mabap converted many Hindus in Islam composing Garabis.
Please read the following ginanic verses which backing my thought:-

"સર્વે સતપંથે પાવલ પીધા અમીરસ પાઈ ને રે,
નરે દીધો છે આપે દીદાર કાસમશાહ આવી ને રે".

'SARVE SATPANTHE PAVAL PIDHA AMIRAS PAI NE RE,
NARE DIDHO CHHE AAPE DIDAR KASAMSHAH AAVINE RE.

In this garbi pir Shams says that Nar Kassam Shah came there and gave didar to the garbi participants. (during Hindu festival called Navratri) Read above ginanic verses of that garbi, which clearly state that Imam Kasam Shah came there and blessed his didar.

Actually we need more research and as we research more and more then we may find many amazing truth of our religion which are still hidden or still not reveiled yet, so I believe that it might be possible that that is a real foot print of Hazarat Ali, God knows better.
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1666

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is interesting information. But I think, here Pir Shams is may be talking about Batini deedar. Because usually at that time jamat used to travel to Iran for getting deedar. There is another ginan of Pir Shams farmana kari narji boliya in which it is mentioned Imam Qasim Shah appeared (in Jampudip) and gave cup of Aab-e-Safa to blind man who passed the test. Here also I think, Pir is talking about batini deedar.
The story mentioned in the ginan is as follow:
Pir Shams went to Iran to meet Imam of the time. Imam asked him to take a test of faith with devotees (in Multan). When Pir Shams returned to Multan, he said to the gathering of devotees that he wants bread made of katha flour (a kind of reddish wheat) and human flesh. The one who will cut and give his own flesh will get immense reward. Gathering was stunned listening at this request of Pir. Nobody wanted to cut their own flesh. Pir Shams kept fast for about seven days and no one went near Pir. Then a blind mendicant came and sat in Jamat Khana. He said to Pir Shams to take the dagger and to cut his flesh as desire. Pir Shams however, did not cut his flesh and said that he was taking only a test. Imam Qasim Sham came there and gave the cup of holy water to the blind man. He drank the holy water and thereafter was able to see the entire universe. He was promised to get place in heaven. Other followers when got to know about it, begged forgiveness from Pir. Pir Shams told them to keep fast so they may be forgiven. Pir Shams passed away some time after this incident.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 1759
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might possible that the interpretation I made may be wrong, it might be batini deedar, because we can make many interpretation of any single ginan,now forget about this ginan now I will give you one events from history of Ismaili imamas, and you can find this event in 'NOORAN MUBIN' too, according the nooran mubin, Imam Abu Hassan Ali came in Lahore (part of Jampudwip) with King Nadir Shah Durani and stayed in Lahore about a month to help Nadir Shah Durani to won fort of Lahore and he went back Iran after Durani won lahore.

What is your answer about this? my answer of this , it is true also , then why most peoples believe that our 46th Imam Hassan Ali Shah was the first Imam who came in Jampudwip first (in 1842) now which one is right?. Imam Hassan Ali Shah or Imam Abu Hassan Ali which imam came first inIndo-Pak in your opinion?
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 1759
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject: Thanks for refreshing the story of pir Shams. Reply with quote

Quote:
The story mentioned in the ginan is as follow:


That was a tough test from pir Shams to blind Chandrabhan ( one from his two followers) but it has good moral and a big lesson for us.

You can find this story,ginan and its translation in following link too.

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=7631

Thanks for refreshing this story again "MULASTAN' Multan is a lucky and historical city where once upon time pir Shams mabap preached jamats ,took a test of jamat and Sun being called to cook meat, gave rebirht of the king son, and grow horns on the head of to Bahauddin Jakaria, sail on paper boat and gave eye sight to blind Cahandrabhan!!
Pir Shams, miracles and Multan will be always remembered for these.
Not only this but Mulatan still has to play big roll during 'ZAHURAT' time, I salute the Pir and city of Multan.
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1666

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link:)
Yes, Multan is very ancient and historical place. Prahlad or Pehlaj (Son of king Hiranya Kashipu or Harnakans) was also believed to live here. There exist temple of Prahladpuri.

As for Hazrat Ali, I have heard that during the caliphate of Hazrat Abu bakar, Hazrat Ali traveled to different places. It might be possible, that he would have visited India (Sindh and/or other places)

Given below is the link which mentions about Hazrat Ali's arrival in India, Imam Hussain's desire to come India and about Hussaini Brahmins

http://www.balawaristan.net/Documents/relationship-of-different-religions.html

I am just posting some extracts from the article. Any one can read complete article for more details:

Hazrat Ali (AS) commenced Islamic relationship with India. When the friends and disciples of Ali (AS) came to India, several Hindus who loved these descendents came forward to help Ali’s (AS) representatives, and they greatly benefited from their knowledge and wisdom of Quran. Thus commenced deep relationship between India and decedents of Prophet (PBUH).


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