Français  |  Mission  |  About us  |  Disclaimer  |  Contact  |  What's new  |  FAQ  |  Search  | 

Welcome to The Heritage Web Site

-->
MY HERITAGE
New Heritage
Main Page
New Account
Set as Homepage
My Account
Logout
GOLDEN JUBILEE
Statistics
DIDARS
COMMUNICATE
Forums
Guestbook
Members List
Recommend Us
NEWS
Timelines
Ismaili History
Today in History
LEARN
Library
Youth's Corner
Ginans
FAIR
Gallery
Photo Album
Others


www.ismaili.net :: View topic - ismaili or not?
FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  ProfileProfile   
Login to check your private messagesLogin to check your private messages

ismaili or not?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.ismaili.net Forum Index -> People
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:29 pm    Post subject: ismaili or not? Reply with quote

Is it true that founder of Pakistan Quaid-e-azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah was ismaili ? or he was isnashari?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
Asif786



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: ismaili or not? Reply with quote

star_munir wrote:
Is it true that founder of Pakistan Quaid-e-azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah was ismaili ? or he was isnashari?
<BR><BR>Ya Ali Madad all<BR><BR>in answer to your question yes Qaid-e-Azam was an &nbsp;Ismaili <BR>a lawyer educated in England he defended many Ismailis who <BR>were wrongfully charged with crimes
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email
oreo786



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:21 pm    Post subject: uhh Reply with quote

<P>what do isnasharis believe in like we belive in hazir imam what about them?</P>
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 21477

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: uhh Reply with quote

oreo786 wrote:
<P>what do isnasharis believe in like we belive in hazir imam what about them?</P>


Ithna asharias means twelver Shias. They believe in twelve Imams, the last one being in hiding and will appear sometime as a Mahdi ( the guided one) who will deliver them at the end of time from evil and restore righteousness.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
Taufiq



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jinnah renounced ismailism and even allegedly tried to convince Sultan Mohamed Shah to do the same! (Just a rumor). he was born ismailii, though.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
nagib



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: uhh Reply with quote

oreo786 wrote:
what do isnasharis believe in like we belive in hazir imam what about them?


One Ithnashri define this subject as follow, he said "For we Ithnashris, our Imam is hidden but we live and behave like if he was present. For you Ismailis, your Imam is present but you live and behave as if he was hidden."

Now I am not saying this, this was said by some Ithnashris. As far as I am concerned, I try to behave as if Imam is present though sometime our own people pressure us to believe he is hidden - But we know where to find him right icon_wink.gif

Nagib
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 21477

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: uhh Reply with quote

nagib wrote:

One Ithnashri define this subject as follow, he said "For we Ithnashris, our Imam is hidden but we live and behave like if he was present. For you Ismailis, your Imam is present but you live and behave as if he was hidden."

Nagib


No wonder an Ithnashri was 'chosen' to write about "The Silent Prince Of Islam"!

For more information on it you may want to go to

Anecdotes -> The Silent Prince of Islam
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
unnalhaq



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: ismaili or not? or may be Separation of Church and State Reply with quote

star_munir wrote:
Is it true that founder of Pakistan Quaid-e-azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah was ismaili ? or he was isnashari?

He was an Ismaili. But there are many views on his public conversion.
One that is partly true is that when his wife (who was not Ismaili) passed away and he (Jinnah) was refused the interment for his wife on the Ismaili burial grounds (I am not sure if it was Sakhi-Hassan-the present day Ismaili cemetery in Karachi). And that was way he reverted to 12vers.
There are also less known saying is that the 48th Imam had asked him to announce that in public so there is no question about his allegiances to the country. I think this is to be more probable. If you read some of the Present Imam’s interviews as to why the seat of Imamet (or secretariat) was moved (in the time of SMS) to Geneva and then to Gouvieux, France aka Aiglemont instead of India(in the time of 47th Imam). You can faintly see this.


Last edited by unnalhaq on Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
unnalhaq



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

star_munir wrote:
Thank you very much.

You are most welcome!
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it is commonly said Jinnah was khoja Ismaili but later converted into twelver. Some people think that he did so, for the cause of Pakistan Movement.

But When Jinnah got married with Ratan, the daughter of Sir Dinsha Petit, at that time also Jinnah was twelver. Jinnah and Ratan got married on 19 April 1918. Before marriage, Ratan had accepted Islam. Their marriage certificate shows the religion of Jinnah as "Khoja Isnaashari" or twelver Shia. Now this was the time period, when there were not much problems between hindus and muslims. There was not any concept or idea of separate country for muslims. The struggle for partition started much later. Infact during that time period, Jinnah was working hard for Hindu Muslim unity.

Jinnah's wife Rattan died in Feb 1929 (this was the time period when conflicts btw muslim league and congress were evident due to Nehru Report) Ratan was burried in "Khoja Isnaashari Cemetery" in Bombay. Still one can visit her tomb in Mumbai.

So this shows that Jinnah was twelver.
Nevertheless, he was great as leader. Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah had praised him in His speech and in Memoirs of Aga Khan.


Last edited by star_munir on Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
emachines786



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:14 pm    Post subject: @star munir Reply with quote

Guys jinnah was ismaili and remained ismaili till death. He never converted to Sunni or Itnasheri shia. If you read miss fatima Jinnah book '' My brother Jinnah" She clearly instate in there that jinnah was shia ismaili muslim but he wasn't a practicing Muslim. Yes his namaz Janazah was done by a shia alim but even if sunni alim would have done that no would stop him as he was a national leader not a leader of any particular sect. Even our present Imam son Nikkah was done by a Shia itnasheri alim that doesnt mean prince hussain is shia itnasheri or Imam sultan muhammad shah has said namaz behind sunnis Imams that doesnt mean our Imam was sunni. unlike other sects of Islam we dont make issue out of these small stuff we are open to every one thats what ismailism is all about.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2059
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that he was an ismaili and he remained in Ismaili sect till his death, I heard this truth from a waez of Rai Abu Ali too.
Whether he converted himself in Twelver, Sunny or remain Ismaili sect, i he was not 100% true Muslim according many authors, I read many articles and many books on him written by Pakistani and foreigner authors, the followings are untold or unheard facts about Jinnah.
-He didn't know much about Islam or Quran because once a judge asked him for translation of one Quranic ayat in court he didn't know the meaning of that ayats and you know what? one Hindu lawyer made the translation of that ayats!!!.
-He was eating pork, drink wine, smoke which are prohibited in Islam.
-After become popular political leader he never went any mosque or Masjid to pray almighty Allah.
-Once he refused to meet Mowlana Sulatan Mohammad Shah, when Mowla asked for a meeting for a Muslim league.
-He had fond of clothes (specially suit) even his last day he wear suit.
-he was arrogant and had proud about his profession and always think himself superior to anyone else.
-He was not fluent in Urdu, so most of his political lecture were in English.
-Even he knew Gujarati language very well, but he hardly speak it he always hesitate to speak or write in Gujarati once he refused to speak in Gujarati with Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, even Gandhi was talking in Gujarati first and requested him to speak same language (Gujarati) but he didn't FYI:- their ancestors were same place Saurashtra/Kathiawad same geographical area in Gujarat where Gujarati is the main language.
-His father name was 'ZINABHAI" but he never liked this name ,so he changed it in 'JINNAH" and adopted it as his last/sur name.
After all he was founder of Pakistan a Muslim country, therefore we should always respect him whether he was an Ismaili or not.
Be honest with you, I don't have any thing against him I respect him as I respect Gandhi.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email
star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stanley Wolpert has mentioned that he used to eat pork earlier time
As far as his knowledge on Quran is concerned...I dont know much about it. But during those time, many people had less understanding on it. However he recommended people to follow the principles of Quran after creation of Pakistan. Also, he recommended Urdu to be the national language of Pakistan. He was fond of new and fashionable dresses and was famous for that in his youth. However, he led simple life after he become governor general of Pakistan. I did know abt what he felt for Gujarati language but I have read that during his last time, he had talk with his sister Fatima in Gujarati language.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.ismaili.net Forum Index -> People All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.1 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group




Fatal error: Call to a member function Execute() on a non-object in /home/heritage/web/webdocs/html/includes/pnSession.php on line 400