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Homosexuality
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

Other question;

What Homosexuality has to do with Ismaili Heritage? Is this an Ismaili Tariqa issue?
We are not immune to the influences around us. Hence we have Ismailis who drink, gamble and are homesexuals as well. When we have Ismailis who are homesexuals, it becomes a Tariqa issue.


Absurd!!
You wrote," When we have Ismailis who are homosexuals, it becomes a Tariqa issue".
No, it is not a Tariqa issue but a moral issue, an ethical issue. Imam said," follow the ethical values of Islam". Homosexuality has nothing to do with Ismaili ethical values.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
I was once attending a conference by Desmond Tutu and one sentence he said struck me, he said there are so many problems in the world that why should we waste time on what people do in their bedroom.

I think this becomes an issue when people who are homosexuals parade the streets with board which says "Ismaili" then they use and misuse our names in the same way people brand Muslim of "Terrorist" and generalise that they do what they do because they are Muslims!

These are personnal issues which people should not brand as they are "Ismaili Gay and Lesbian". I don't have anything against them but why put the name "Ismaili queers" which would generalised their choice and attempt to label a whole community for their own advantage as an approved community standard which it is not.


I agree with you. Any Gay or Lesbian should not use word Ismaili with them. In North America Problem popped up when a Lady from Canada on TV shows declared herself as a Lesbian belong to Ismaili faith. Shameful statements have hurt Ismaili faith.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5941

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are even worse, a group of people paraded in Toronto with large board saying that they were "Ismaili" Gay and Lesbian. Why not a board saying "Canadian" Gay and Lesbian, why bring religion into it?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Absurd!!
You wrote," When we have Ismailis who are homosexuals, it becomes a Tariqa issue".
No, it is not a Tariqa issue but a moral issue, an ethical issue. Imam said," follow the ethical values of Islam". Homosexuality has nothing to do with Ismaili ethical values.
Are you saying moral and ethical issues are not Tariqah issues? What are the messages of the Qur'an and the Ginans about? I am not saying whether homosexuality is acceptable or not, I am simply saying that it is something we have to deal with in our Tariqah.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Absurd!!
You wrote," When we have Ismailis who are homosexuals, it becomes a Tariqa issue".
No, it is not a Tariqa issue but a moral issue, an ethical issue. Imam said," follow the ethical values of Islam". Homosexuality has nothing to do with Ismaili ethical values.
Are you saying moral and ethical issues are not Tariqah issues? What are the messages of the Qur'an and the Ginans about? I am not saying whether homosexuality is acceptable or not, I am simply saying that it is something we have to deal with in our Tariqah.


In my opinion Admin should not had allowed this topic on Ismaili Heritage. My point is homosexuality is not Ismaili Heritage. Why to propagate it on this site, if yes then what is the agenda? Ismaili Tariqa has nothing to do with it. This should stay private and not propagated. I think this topic should be deleted from this site for good.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5941

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion is justified in view of the fact that changing laws in some countries allow 2 people of same gendre to get married as marriage definition has changed from man and women to "between 2 persons".

Recently a women married her dog because since dogs can inherit, some judge has ruled that a dog is a person.

Now imagine a situation where a woman comes to Mukhi with her legally wedded dog and say we want to get married religiously and get blessings?

They may say that our Constitution respect the law of the land.

This will happen and the discussion is healthy and necessary.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
This discussion is justified in view of the fact that changing laws in some countries allow 2 people of same gendre to get married as marriage definition has changed from man and women to "between 2 persons".

Recently a women married her dog because since dogs can inherit, some judge has ruled that a dog is a person.

Now imagine a situation where a woman comes to Mukhi with her legally wedded dog and say we want to get married religiously and get blessings?

They may say that our Constitution respect the law of the land.

This will happen and the discussion is healthy and necessary.


If constitution of a particular country dictates don't recite Du'a, will an Ismaili obey the Farman or the constitution?
We are Muslims, and Islam does not allow marriage of a woman with a dog or a monkey. I don't think an Ismaili woman dare to bring a dog in three piece suit with neck tie in front of Mukhi to recite Nikah Khutba.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:


If constitution of a particular country dictates don't recite Du'a, will an Ismaili obey the Farman or the constitution?
If the law of the land does not allow us to practice our faith, we should not live in that land. That is the guidance of the Imam.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

I have a question for you, did any Pir in Ginans mentioned about homosexuality, gay and lesbians?
I have not come across any references in the Ginans. I know of Ginans which mention the prohibition of extra marital sex.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How homosexuality became a crime in the Middle East

Colonialism, culture wars and fundamentalist politicians have restricted sexual freedom


IN THE 13th and 14th centuries two celebrated male poets wrote about men in affectionate, even amorous, terms. They were Rumi and Hafiz, and both lived in what is now Iran. Their musings were neither new nor unusual. Centuries earlier Abu Nuwas, a bawdy poet from Baghdad, wrote lewd verses about same-sex desire. Such relative openness towards homosexual love used to be widespread in the Middle East. Khaled El-Rouayheb, an academic at Harvard University, explains that though sodomy was deemed a major sin by Muslim courts of law, other homosexual acts such as passionate kissing, fondling or lesbian sex were not. Homoerotic poetry was widely considered part of a “refined sensibility”, he says.

The modern Middle East views the subject very differently. A survey by Pew Research Centre in 2013 found that most people in the region believe homosexuality should be rejected: 97% in Jordan, 95% in Egypt and 80% in Lebanon. In 2007 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, then the president of Iran, told a crowd of incredulous students at Columbia University in New York that “in Iran we don’t have homosexuals”. In 2001 the Egyptian Ministry of Culture burnt 6,000 volumes of Abu Nuwas’s poetry. What happened?

More...
https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/06/06/how-homosexuality-became-a-crime-in-the-middle-east?cid1=cust/ddnew/email/n/n/2018067n/owned/n/n/ddnew/n/n/n/nna/Daily_Dispatch/email&etear=dailydispatch
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanzania's anti-homosexuality purge is making Ottawa anxious

Official anti-gay prejudice in Tanzania is causing Canadian officials to reassess this country's relationship with one of Canada's biggest aid recipients.

Arrests of gay men in Zanzibar over the weekend, and the launch of "anti-gay patrols" in the capital Dar es Salaam on Monday, are the latest incidents to alarm Canadian diplomats. They've come up this week at high-level meetings involving not only Canadian and Tanzanian officials but also those of other western donor nations.

Tanzania's homophobic actions are particularly uncomfortable for Canada, which gave Tanzania more than $125 milllion in direct aid last year, making it Canada's sixth-largest aid recipient in the world.

Canada co-chairs the Equal Rights Coalition, a group of 40 nations that Canada helped to create. The coalition promotes LGBT equality around the world and has roundly condemned some of the practices used in Tanzania — particularly the use of forced anal exams to collect "evidence" of homosexual behaviour, which in Tanzania can lead to a life sentence in prison.

More..
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/tanzanias-anti-homosexuality-purge-is-making-ottawa-anxious/ar-BBPxJCX?li=AAggNb9
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruling on law banning gay sex delayed in Kenya High Court, what you need to know

NAIROBI (Reuters) – Kenya’s High Court has postponed until May 24 a ruling on whether to strike out or uphold a colonial-era law banning gay sex, a judge said on Friday.

Judge Chacha Mwita told a packed court in the capital, Nairobi, that the bench constituted to hear the case needed more time to prepare for the ruling, which had been due on Friday.

“The judges on the bench also sit in other courts … we need more time,” Mwita said.


Same-sex relationships are illegal in more than 70 countries, almost half of them in Africa, where homosexuality is broadly taboo and persecution is rife.

In Kenya, where same-sex relationships can lead to a 14-year jail sentence, campaigners for lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgender (LGBT) rights have become increasingly vocal in recent years.

Kenya arrested 534 people for same-sex relationships between 2013 and 2017, the government said. Kenya’s high court began hearings on the law last year.

Campaigners say the colonial-era law violates Kenya’s progressive 2010 constitution, which guarantees equality, dignity and privacy for all citizens.

They also submitted arguments based on India’s rejection of a similar law in August.[nL8N1WD360]

Reporting by Baz Ratner and John Ndiso; Editing by Paul Tait and Darren Schuettler

https://www.cnbcafrica.com/news/east-africa/2019/02/22/ruling-on-law-banning-gay-sex-delayed-in-kenya-high-court-what-you-need-to-know/
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brunei to Punish Adultery and Gay Sex With Death by Stoning

The sultan of Brunei, Hassanal Bolkiah, has advocated a conservative vision of Islam.


HONG KONG — When Brunei announced in 2013 that it was bringing in harsh Islamic laws that included punishments of death by stoning for adultery and gay sex, the move was met with international protest. Some investments by the country’s sovereign wealth fund, including the Beverly Hills Hotel, were targets of boycotts and calls for divestment.

Following the outcry, Brunei, a sultanate of about 430,000 on the island of Borneo, delayed carrying out the harshest provisions of its Shariah law.

Now, it is quietly going ahead with them.

Beginning on April 3, statutes allowing stoning and amputation will go into effect, according to an announcement posted by the country’s attorney general last year that has only recently received notice.

That has set off a renewed outcry from human rights groups.

More...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/world/asia/brunei-stoning-death.html?emc=edit_th_190329&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=453053090329
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taiwan Legislature Approves Asia’s First Same-Sex Marriage Law

HONG KONG — As tens of thousands of demonstrators filled the rainy streets of Taipei on Friday, lawmakers in Taiwan voted to legalize same-sex marriage, a first for Asia.

“We want to marry!” supporters outside the legislature chanted in approval of the measure, as they applauded and waved signs and rainbow banners.

“On May 17th, 2019 in #Taiwan, #LoveWon,” President Tsai Ing-wen tweeted after the vote. “We took a big step towards true equality, and made Taiwan a better country.”

The legislature faced a deadline imposed by Taiwan’s constitutional court, which in 2017 struck down the Civil Code’s definition of marriage as exclusively between a man and woman. The court gave the government two years to revise the law, or same-sex couples would automatically be allowed to have their marriages registered by the local authorities.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/world/asia/taiwan-gay-marriage.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_190518
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenya’s High Court Upholds a Ban on Gay Sex

NAIROBI, Kenya — Kenya’s High Court on Friday upheld laws that criminalize gay sex, declining to join the handful of nations that have recently abolished a prohibition imposed by Britain during the colonial era.

The unanimous ruling by a three-judge panel of the court, announced in a courtroom packed with activists who wanted to see the laws overturned, keeps Kenya aligned with most of Africa. Anti-gay laws and conservative cultural mores remain prevalent across most of the continent. In addition to the threat of prosecution, discrimination and violence against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are common.

“A sad day for the rule of law and human rights,” said Eric Gitari, a co-founder of the National Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, a Kenyan civil rights group, who was one of the petitioners in the case. He said he and others would appeal the ruling.

Téa Braun, director of the Human Dignity Trust, an international gay rights advocacy group, noted in a statement that Kenya’s constitution guarantees human dignity and freedom from discrimination.

“Yet in handing down this disappointing judgment, the court has ruled that a certain sector of society is undeserving of those rights,” she said.

The Kenyan ruling came on the same day, however, that Taiwan had its first same-sex weddings, which were legalized last week by the legislature.

More than 70 countries criminalize gay sex, most of them Muslim countries or former British colonies, according to advocacy groups.

More...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/24/world/africa/kenya-gay-ban-british.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_190525
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19811

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coke Ad Riles Hungary Conservatives, Part of Larger Gay Rights Battle

WARSAW — By the standards of Western advertising, Coca-Cola’s billboard campaign in Hungary was pretty tame.

Three couples are shown enjoying a soda, smiling and seemingly in love. One picture shows a man, a woman and a Coke; another two women and a Coke; and a third shows two men and a Coke.

“Love is Love,” is the campaign slogan. But in the current climate in Eastern and Central Europe, where “L.G.B.T. ideology” has taken the place of migrants as public enemy number one for many nationalist leaders, love is not love.

It is a threat.

Soon after the Coke ads appeared, a pro-government internet news site ran a banner headline: “The Homosexual Lobby Has Now Besieged Budapest — They Won’t Give You A Chance to Avoid It.”

Istvan Boldog, a lawmaker representing Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s far-right Fidesz party, used Facebook to call on the public to boycott Coca-Cola products until the company “removed its provocative posters from Hungary.”

The battle over the billboards is just a small skirmish in what is emerging as a broader campaign across the region against gay rights. Right-wing politicians complain that their traditional cultures are undermined by a decadent and dangerous import from the irreligious West.

In 2013, Russia made it illegal to expose minors to discussion of “nontraditional” sexual relationships.

More recently, Poland’s leaders have focused attention on what they call “L.G.B.T. ideology,” painting it as an insidious threat to the nation. Other parties in the region are watching closely to see how effective it proves.

In the run-up to national elections in October, Poland’s governing Law and Justice Party, along with Catholic Church leaders, have stepped up their attacks. More than two dozen provincial governments have declared their localities “L.G.B.T.-free,” and the party leader, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, has said Poland will not live under “the rainbow flag.”

More...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/world/europe/gays-hungary-poland-lgbt-ideology.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_190810?campaign_id=2&instance_id=11408&segment_id=16040&user_id=b5e5426f5c89f06ac9cd19778d3e6de3&regi_id=453053090810&login=email&auth=login-email
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swamidada



Joined: 19 Aug 2019
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A person's genes do not determine whether they will be attracted to members of the opposite sex, scientists believe. The research debunks the idea that there is a so-called "gay gene," say the authors of the study published in the journal Science. They said the findings highlight the complexity of human traits such as sexuality.

Between two to 10 percent of the world's population at any given time report having same-sex partners, according to research cited by the authors. But scientists aren't sure what determines whether a person will identify as gay, straight, bisexual, or somewhere else on the spectrum of sexuality.

The study involved 477,522 participants. Researchers scanned their genomes to uncover whether there are genes associated with same-sex attraction. This approach is known as a genome-wide association study (GWAS).

The participants of the study were part of the UK Biobank cohort and consenting customers of 23andMe, a genetic testing service.

The team found five loci—or the position of a gene on a chromosome—associated with same-sex attraction. The loci had small individual effects, spread across the genome, which partly overlapped in females and males, they explained. But the team said these couldn't meaningfully predict a person's sexual behavior.

"There is certainly no single genetic determinant (sometimes referred to as the "gay gene" in the media)," they wrote. "Our findings provide insights into the genetics underlying same-sex sexual behavior and underscore the complexity of sexuality."

It appears that, like most behavioral traits, sexuality is influenced by a range of genetic variants which can't be picked up in the sample size, they said.

Appearing to allude to the discrimination which LGBT people face, the authors wrote: "Our findings provide insights into the biological underpinnings of same-sex sexual behavior but also underscore the importance of resisting simplistic conclusions—because the behavioral phenotypes are complex, because our genetic insights are rudimentary, and because there is a long history of misusing genetic results for social purposes."

In an article accompanying the research in Science, Melinda Mills, Professor of Sociology at the University of Oxford, who did not work on the paper wrote: "Although they did find particular genetic loci associated with same-sex behavior, when they combine the effects of these loci together into one comprehensive score, the effects are so small (under 1 percent) that this genetic score could not be reliably used to predict same-sex sexual behavior of an individual."

https://start.att.net/news/read/article/newsweek-scientists_debunk_the_idea_there_is_a_gay_gene_tha-rnewsweek/category/news+
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Japan’s Support for Gay Marriage Is Soaring. But Can It Become Law?

The country is being pulled in two directions as it experiences a “boom” in L.G.B.T. awareness but also remains committed to a sometimes inflexible traditional culture.


TOKYO — Ikuo Sato stood in front of a Tokyo court in April and told the world he was gay.

To a packed room, he described the anxiety he had felt as a young man, struggling to express his sexuality in Japan’s restrictive society. If the law is changed to allow same-sex marriage, he said, perhaps “we’ll make a society where the next generation doesn’t have to feel that way.”

Somewhere in the courtroom, his partner sat silently watching, hoping to go unnoticed. His family and co-workers do not know he is gay, and he hopes — at least for now — to keep it that way, fearing discrimination in his workplace.

The couple’s story epitomizes the contradictions that shape the lives of gay people across Japan.

In many ways, there has been dramatic change. Lawsuits filed this year by Mr. Sato, his partner and five other couples seeking recognition of same-sex marriage are the first of their kind in Japan. Public support for same-sex marriage has surged in the last few years, making it seem suddenly within reach. Local governments are increasingly recognizing same-sex partnerships, and even Japan’s famously rigid companies have begun coming out in favor of them.

Yet in other ways, the gains remain abstract. Gay people face overwhelming pressure to conform to the silent, stifling norms of a society in which many parents and workers are still uncomfortable with the idea of their own children and colleagues being gay. And the conservative politicians who run the country and extol its sometimes inflexible culture refuse to touch the issue.

More...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/27/world/asia/japan-gay-marriage.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_191128?campaign_id=2&instance_id=14106&segment_id=19151&user_id=b5e5426f5c89f06ac9cd19778d3e6de3&regi_id=453053091128
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