CAN SAYING 'YA ALY' BE A SIN.

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

Under what circumstances can saying 'Ya Aly' be a sin?

star_munir · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 1602

Why do you think it can be a sin in any circumstance?

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

To Munir & Everybody

YAM

Is saying Ya Aly the same as calling Aly?

Shams

kmaherali · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 9913

In my opinion it all depends upon the context and the intent. If the intent is to be in His presence then simple remembrance of Him will do as per the Firman "Whenever a momin remembers us, he is instantly in our presence"(Bombay, 2/9/1940).

On the other hand, shouting Ya Ali without faith or inner conviction about his presence or without the intent of following his farman will yield nothing.

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

What is more important,

Ya Aly

or

The Farman of Ya Aly.

Shams

Nurali_Barkatali · Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 19

Ya Ali

saying in any context in my opinion is no way a sin until unless you are saying /doing anything bad towars YA ALI.

and Farman of Ya Ali or Ya Ali
yar Ya Ali is important cuz u can only recognize Ya Ali from his faramins
so i guess both are important to each other.

take care Ya Ali Madad

Nurali Barkatali
nurali_barkatali@yahoo.com
nur786@hotmail.com
03002199037

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

Saw an interesting paragraph in Pir Shahbuddin Shah's Book with the above name

What may be a satisfactory attainment for an ordinary man, and what may

be his pride, may be a poor achievement for others. It is said that what

may be acceptable from the good, may be regarded as a sin when done by

the chosen ones. People of no spiritual vision are quite virtuous when

they merely attest the existence of God, and (life after) death. But

this is entirely insufficient, and even sinful, when those who possess

the higher religious knowledge (ma'rifat), are concerned. Just as when a

baby does something, it may be very clever for its age, and quite natural

to it. But it would be quite natural to it. But it would be quite a

different matter if an adult does the same thing, -his action surely will

appear utterly ridiculous and stupid.

kmaherali · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 9913

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

Ya Aly means O Aly

It is a call to Aly

It is insulting/disrespectful to call upon he who is with you, within you.

A murid calls upon Aly so that Aly can be with him.

A Haqiqati knows Aly is with him , within him.

Now, calling he who is with you is just plain psychotic.

I dont think a psychotic person can be held responsible for his actions.

So there are no circumstances under which saying Ya Aly is a sin (in my opinion)

Hehe

Shams

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

Yes, But the fact is we should all remember Aly is in our presence right

now at this moment and is until the day of judgement and even after that

how we behave, how we interact with others, how we commit good deeds

and commit bad sins are all in the presence of Aly. Sure a haqiqati

momin knows Aly resides in him and lives within him but Aly lives and

resides with all human beings (ismaili or not). The entire existence

is dependant upon him. It is the inner knowledge which is why most

people fail to realize this.

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

Which Sin,

do you think can survive the prescence of Aly?

think about what I am asking very carefully.

Shams

kmaherali · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 9913

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

Yes Aly is absent from the awareness of those who commit deeds that you perceive as sins.

I am sure you have realized that while a muslim person is not aware of the fact that there is pork in his food he seems to enjoy it but as soon as he becomes aware of the facts he starts spitting out what ever is in his mouth too.

Awareness of Aly is what brings you closer to Aly

One of the ways to increase awareness is to do dhikr.

Sin cannot survive the prescence of Aly.

Just as we say that after Deedar of Mowla all sins are forgiven of everyone who did the Deedar.

The prescence of Aly is in reality the prescence of Aly in your awareness.

I believe that if the prescence of Aly is alive in your awareness then deeds automatically get elevated above good and bad & right and wrong.

gtg

ttyl

shams

kmaherali · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 9913

The following verse of the Granth Bujh Niranjan summarizes this.

re tu(n)hee(n), ...
alee samare alee paaee-e,
alee samare sukh ho-e;
nipatt neekatt jo alee vase,
pann alee samarat nahi koee re...............................XIV

O You, ... If you remember Aly, you attain Aly. Through remembrance of Aly peace is attained. Though Aly is very close, nobody remembers Aly.

Remembrance of Aly leads to peace. When this peace is attained through Batuni Deedar there is no need to indulge in sinful lower pleasures such as illicit sex because they would seem trivial and insignificant in comparison. Hence sins disappear with the appearance of Aly (Batuni Deedar).

In the following verse of the Ginan �Satnaa Sarovar�, Peer Sadardeen says:

ejee hansaajeenaa raajaa jyaare jeelavaane betthaa
tyaare bagalaa taddo tadd naatthaa...jeere enne..............2

When the king of the soul came on the lake for excursion (i.e., gave His Vision- deedaar), the herons (evil forces) dispersed immediately dear ones! maintain....

star_munir · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 1602

Can saying Ya Ali Adrikani be sin?
I have heard from some people that one say this only at the time of severe difficulty.
So do this tasbih be recite only on severe difficulty or one can say it any time?

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