i cannot believe it. I personally at first believed that the councel members were up to their old tricks. That they were mad that they didnt think of publishing the farman book first and wanted attention. After the announcement this last chandrat i am totally convinced the publishers have done wrong to mowla. For who everr wasnt their i will repeat what was said. Please note this is just a summary,
We were told today that the councel had tried to make the publishers to stop publishing or action would be taken. Of course the heading was not taken into account. After that one of the publishers wrote to hazar imam asking for permission to publisize the book. Hazar Imam experressed his concern that he did not like the fact that an initiative had been taken like this. He was very well concerened about all of this and wanted the publications stopped. But the publications continued forward and infact another latter was sent to hazar imam saying that the previous letter was a forgery. Hazar imam yet again replied that it was not forgery and wanted to have this stay within the murid murshid bond. Of course the letter was yet again ignored. The publishers instead contacted prince Amyn and told him that letters of hazar imam was being forged. Prince Amyn wrote back and said that the letters were true.
With all of the present info i request humbly that every one stop buying these farman books. I urge the publishers to stop publishing these books. I also urge them to apologize to MHI and keep this matter between a murid and a murshid. MHI will forgive you.
kalam-e-imam-e-zaman
Lawsuite filed
Please click the link below for more information about the above publication:-
The lawsuite has been filed against two followers of Imam.
http://www.vancouverite.com/2010/04/12/ ... ral-court/
The lawsuite has been filed against two followers of Imam.
http://www.vancouverite.com/2010/04/12/ ... ral-court/
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imranramji2008
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:14 pm
<BR><BR>then tell me nagib the truth. Tell the community the truth if you know it. swear by mowla that these dispicable people in their true intentions first got the permission from Hazar Imam and then and o­nly then did they go ahead with the publication. If you are true then you can produce those proofs. Proof without a doubt that the replies to the letters were not sent by hazar imam. The councel has in its deliverence produced the proof that these farman books are unauthorized and violation of mowla's right. Even if these publishers have gotten authority (highly doubted) then why not just stop the publication and get all of these things cleared up with mowla first. I request the publishers to keep this murshid and murid bond and not to make a public mockery of it. Be humble publishers if you really did get the authority from Mowla. Our beloved mowla has went through 2 divorce which o­ne is pending please dont do this. Dont become an akberally merehally. That is my request mowla doesnt needs this and mowla doesnt wants this but yall are forcing his hand.nagib wrote:The announcement was not accurate. <BR><BR>In due time everyone will now the truth. <BR><BR>If you believe that God is in control, leave it to Him.
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salmanali786
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:10 pm
Truth?? We have institutions to release Hazir Imam's Farman. Its not the job of individual to release things and sell it for $$ for thr financial gains.nagib wrote:The announcement was not accurate.
In due time everyone will now the truth.
If you believe that God is in control, leave it to Him.
Are you sure they didnt end up in homes of non-ismailies? He was selling it online!! anyone could have gotten one.
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imranramji2008
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:14 pm
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nurdinnurdin
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:27 am
Kalam-e Imam-e-Zaman.
What I dont understand is that firmans of MHI is easily available thru the net, by broadcasting in all khanas it has generated more demand, the announcement is counterproductive, the real reason is I think the institution are bit cheesed off that it took an indidivual member of the jamat took the initiative to produce a large volume of MHI firmans and this kind of took the thunder out the ISS as I understand the ISS is coming out with the authentic version. BTW, it seem a bit odd the from the yesterday's announcement that the council want this indidual to send all outstanding copies to London, Why not send it to BC council in Vancouver, since he resides in Vancouver, I cant imagine this indidivual is going to spend money sending it to London.[/b]
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imranramji2008
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:14 pm
If Mowla prefers that they be sent to IIS then there must be a good reason for this ! Please respect Mowla's wishes and end this unfortunate episode gracefully now ! I believe it is reasonably established that it is the Imam who has evinced such a desire that such material not be circulated freely and indiscriminately without his own authoritative body having examined it for authenticity...as Imam he has an overriding responsibility and right over his own utterances and disobedience to Imam is disobedience to the Prophet SAW and Allah Himself, which we all know...kindly do not allow this matter to further tear us apart or fragment us unduly due to ego....before the Imam we must all remain humble and accept his decision...please allow me to share with you all an email which I have just received from one of my sisters...
Ya Ali Madad Everyone,
The recent news about Mowlana Hazar Imam's lawsuit in Toronto was an eye opener for me and I wish to express my views after a lot of soul searching.
I am a true believer of the fact that we are indeed guided by an Authentic Authority vested by Allah in the Imam-e Zaman, Mowlana Hazar Imam, and this is part of the meaning of being a Muslim, to surrender to the will of Allah.
I know that the Farman books were created by individuals who deeply love the Imam and have invested a lot of time, energy and resources in gathering these pearls just like our Quran and Nahj ul Balagah were documented by devout followers and have been made available to posterity.
This is what was done with the Farman book efforts and these qualities will become very useful in continued service of the Imam.
After knowing that the Imam had asked that this endeavor be halted and turned over to the IIS, compliance should have been immediate.
If there was any doubt created by the authenticity of the Imam's letter, a second letter from him specified and that should have sufficed.
And, due to the history of communications with the leadership, since Prince Amyn was consulted, after his assurance, the matter should have ended.
For whatever reason, this did not happen and it led to the dire consequences that were outlined by the second letter from the Imam.
However, I am of the strong belief that the Imam is All-Forgiving and Islam forgives everything that goes before it.
That is why we have the tradition of Tauba and we seek forgiveness of all our sins.
All of us need this regular cleansing and that is part of what keeps us pure and to remove errors from our thinking.
This matter affects us all and we should give a Nazrana to the Imam.
I am asking that we come together pray for forgiveness for the parties involved and as supporters of the material that they have provided over the years which enhanced our love for the Imam.
It is this love that has prompted me to write this way, that yes, your service has been exceptional and unmatched.
Every Ismaili household has benefited and now we need to follow what the Imam wants. Follow the Farman Maker not the book of Farmans.
Things happen for a reason. We are getting ready for a Zahurat.
It is not too late, a Tauba Karawi, an apology is all that would be needed as our beloved Imam is Forgiving and Merciful and we will all grow stronger and unite from this incident.
Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah says to learn to desire what happens not make the events suit our desires.
Let us all respect our Spiritual Father.
Let us pray together for everyone:
Tobho tobho taksidaar, bando sartak pau gunegaar,
Ya Shah tu baksh, Bakshanhaar!
Aamin
Your spiritual sister,
Nina
Ya Ali Madad Everyone,
The recent news about Mowlana Hazar Imam's lawsuit in Toronto was an eye opener for me and I wish to express my views after a lot of soul searching.
I am a true believer of the fact that we are indeed guided by an Authentic Authority vested by Allah in the Imam-e Zaman, Mowlana Hazar Imam, and this is part of the meaning of being a Muslim, to surrender to the will of Allah.
I know that the Farman books were created by individuals who deeply love the Imam and have invested a lot of time, energy and resources in gathering these pearls just like our Quran and Nahj ul Balagah were documented by devout followers and have been made available to posterity.
This is what was done with the Farman book efforts and these qualities will become very useful in continued service of the Imam.
After knowing that the Imam had asked that this endeavor be halted and turned over to the IIS, compliance should have been immediate.
If there was any doubt created by the authenticity of the Imam's letter, a second letter from him specified and that should have sufficed.
And, due to the history of communications with the leadership, since Prince Amyn was consulted, after his assurance, the matter should have ended.
For whatever reason, this did not happen and it led to the dire consequences that were outlined by the second letter from the Imam.
However, I am of the strong belief that the Imam is All-Forgiving and Islam forgives everything that goes before it.
That is why we have the tradition of Tauba and we seek forgiveness of all our sins.
All of us need this regular cleansing and that is part of what keeps us pure and to remove errors from our thinking.
This matter affects us all and we should give a Nazrana to the Imam.
I am asking that we come together pray for forgiveness for the parties involved and as supporters of the material that they have provided over the years which enhanced our love for the Imam.
It is this love that has prompted me to write this way, that yes, your service has been exceptional and unmatched.
Every Ismaili household has benefited and now we need to follow what the Imam wants. Follow the Farman Maker not the book of Farmans.
Things happen for a reason. We are getting ready for a Zahurat.
It is not too late, a Tauba Karawi, an apology is all that would be needed as our beloved Imam is Forgiving and Merciful and we will all grow stronger and unite from this incident.
Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah says to learn to desire what happens not make the events suit our desires.
Let us all respect our Spiritual Father.
Let us pray together for everyone:
Tobho tobho taksidaar, bando sartak pau gunegaar,
Ya Shah tu baksh, Bakshanhaar!
Aamin
Your spiritual sister,
Nina
Profit
All things considered
It makes my blood boil when people say that there is money being made from these books.
Talk to someone who publishes books. Ask how much it would cost to compile and print a book of this calibre
What is going on is just insane.
Are people who manage this website making money?
There is a lesson to be learned from all this. It is not yet clear to me what the lesson is.
Lets not judge. Be patient, observe how people talk about Mowla and what Mowla is going to do.
No one knows what they are going to think 5 seconds from now and we talk about what Mowla will do.
Nagib,
One thing is for sure, with this global ninda going on about you, your sins are cleaned up man.
From what I can see, this ninda is going to go on for years.
You have a "Ninda" get out of jail free pass.
You lucky bugger.
Shams
For those who don't understand what I am referring to, look up Imam SMS farman where he says
"Tamarama ketlak eva cche je potani ninda karavine cchotia cche"
It makes my blood boil when people say that there is money being made from these books.
Talk to someone who publishes books. Ask how much it would cost to compile and print a book of this calibre
What is going on is just insane.
Are people who manage this website making money?
There is a lesson to be learned from all this. It is not yet clear to me what the lesson is.
Lets not judge. Be patient, observe how people talk about Mowla and what Mowla is going to do.
No one knows what they are going to think 5 seconds from now and we talk about what Mowla will do.
Nagib,
One thing is for sure, with this global ninda going on about you, your sins are cleaned up man.
From what I can see, this ninda is going to go on for years.
You have a "Ninda" get out of jail free pass.
You lucky bugger.
Shams
For those who don't understand what I am referring to, look up Imam SMS farman where he says
"Tamarama ketlak eva cche je potani ninda karavine cchotia cche"
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imranramji2008
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:14 pm
Re: Profit
shams i think i speak for a whole lot of people: Please be quite. You take things out of context. I have personally witnessed it. Personally i dont know gujrati so i am not gonna comment and i dont want to know because MHI has personally banned sultan mohummad shahs farman books for a reason. We are not supposed to read them. It was clear without a doubt on chandrat that these books are not supposed to be used to interpret our faith. Their are many reasons for this please dont use themshamsu wrote:All things considered
It makes my blood boil when people say that there is money being made from these books.
Talk to someone who publishes books. Ask how much it would cost to compile and print a book of this calibre
What is going on is just insane.
Are people who manage this website making money?
There is a lesson to be learned from all this. It is not yet clear to me what the lesson is.
Lets not judge. Be patient, observe how people talk about Mowla and what Mowla is going to do.
No one knows what they are going to think 5 seconds from now and we talk about what Mowla will do.
Nagib,
One thing is for sure, with this global ninda going on about you, your sins are cleaned up man.
From what I can see, this ninda is going to go on for years.
You have a "Ninda" get out of jail free pass.
You lucky bugger.
Shams
For those who don't understand what I am referring to, look up Imam SMS farman where he says
"Tamarama ketlak eva cche je potani ninda karavine cchotia cche"
Re: Profit
imranramji2008 wrote:shams i think i speak for a whole lot of people: Please be quite. You take things out of context. I have personally witnessed it. Personally i dont know gujrati so i am not gonna comment and i dont want to know because MHI has personally banned sultan mohummad shahs farman books for a reason. We are not supposed to read them. It was clear without a doubt on chandrat that these books are not supposed to be used to interpret our faith. Their are many reasons for this please dont use themshamsu wrote:All things considered
It makes my blood boil when people say that there is money being made from these books.
Talk to someone who publishes books. Ask how much it would cost to compile and print a book of this calibre
What is going on is just insane.
Are people who manage this website making money?
There is a lesson to be learned from all this. It is not yet clear to me what the lesson is.
Lets not judge. Be patient, observe how people talk about Mowla and what Mowla is going to do.
No one knows what they are going to think 5 seconds from now and we talk about what Mowla will do.
Nagib,
One thing is for sure, with this global ninda going on about you, your sins are cleaned up man.
From what I can see, this ninda is going to go on for years.
You have a "Ninda" get out of jail free pass.
You lucky bugger.
Shams
For those who don't understand what I am referring to, look up Imam SMS farman where he says
"Tamarama ketlak eva cche je potani ninda karavine cchotia cche"
Please show me the hidayah where the Farmans of Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah are banned - for someone that was in Jamat Khana during Chaandrat you don't pay a lot of attention do you?
The Chaandrat farmans are Imam SMS's farmans, a lot of BUK farmans are MSMS's Farmans.
Please don't make blanket statements if you don't know the facts.
As for publication - there is a store in Houston which sells these books - they publish them themselves along with a lot of other material - why hasn't someone stopped them? You can walk into the store and say Ya Ali Madad and they'll assume you're an ismaili and take you to the books, forget that, they'll sell you Waez CDs on BUK and on other majlises without any verification.
I don't condone the publication of the book. I do condemn these public acts of stoning that we've taken - this mob mentality.
Nabi Issa/Jesus once uttered a famous phrase when it came to the stoning of a prostitute - "Let he who has NO sin, cast the first stone."
If you can stand here and tell us you are sin free and have not committed nafarmani..and you have authority vested in you by the Imam, then go for it.
Last time I checked, the Imam had not delegated this authority.
The intent of these individuals was not to make money - but to try and do good - whether rightfully guided or misguided is not for us to decide.
The issue is now between them and the Imam of the Time - why do you want to get involved? Let them work with the Imam and resolve this issue.
I am going to ask Admin to shut down this thread as well - because it's resulting in mud slinging.
Shams
Re: Profit
imranramji2008 wrote:shams i think i speak for a whole lot of people: Please be quite. You take things out of context. I have personally witnessed it. Personally i dont know gujrati so i am not gonna comment and i dont want to know because MHI has personally banned sultan mohummad shahs farman books for a reason. We are not supposed to read them. It was clear without a doubt on chandrat that these books are not supposed to be used to interpret our faith. Their are many reasons for this please dont use themshamsu wrote:All things considered
It makes my blood boil when people say that there is money being made from these books.
Talk to someone who publishes books. Ask how much it would cost to compile and print a book of this calibre
What is going on is just insane.
Are people who manage this website making money?
There is a lesson to be learned from all this. It is not yet clear to me what the lesson is.
Lets not judge. Be patient, observe how people talk about Mowla and what Mowla is going to do.
No one knows what they are going to think 5 seconds from now and we talk about what Mowla will do.
Nagib,
One thing is for sure, with this global ninda going on about you, your sins are cleaned up man.
From what I can see, this ninda is going to go on for years.
You have a "Ninda" get out of jail free pass.
You lucky bugger.
Shams
For those who don't understand what I am referring to, look up Imam SMS farman where he says
"Tamarama ketlak eva cche je potani ninda karavine cchotia cche"
and btw..these books contain the Farmans of the Imam..incase you omitted to notice that. Anything that has the Imam's name attached to it..automatically becomes something of extreme value.
Shams
SHAMSB
<P>YAM<BR>shamsb who has given u authority to tell adm to close the topic..let admn do his own work..the publisher should have taken permission of author before he distributes the contents from the author-in this case MHI. its sheer copyright violation and should come and admit it. it is o­nly MHI<BR>has authority to decide what shld be published and where and by whom.... period.<BR>no if's or but's. there is no excuse for this and shame o­n those who bought the pirated copies.<BR></P>
Re: SHAMSB
if you notice I am saying the same thing..that this is a matter for MHI and MHI only - not for the rest of us to debate and decide and gang up on individuals offering our opinions.al05 wrote:<P>YAM<BR>shamsb who has given u authority to tell adm to close the topic..let admn do his own work..the publisher should have taken permission of author before he distributes the contents from the author-in this case MHI. its sheer copyright violation and should come and admit it. it is o­nly MHI<BR>has authority to decide what shld be published and where and by whom.... period.<BR>no if's or but's. there is no excuse for this and shame o­n those who bought the pirated copies.<BR></P>
Shams
ya ali madad
What kind of ismaili can disobey hazirimam . Why in the world would someone publish mhi farmans and distribute them wheter making money or not . The isuue is not money . mhi has sent two letters to the individuals conserned and the individual concerned is not accepting it. Matters of faith belong to mhi only and the farms is a matter of faith. How come these individuals implicated can have the face to show up in the court . This is insane. Mhi has personally sent the letters to the individual concerned. Farmans is mhi property he does what he like to with. Shame on those people implicated who received the letters from mhi and thinking of going court against mhi .
Esoteric
On the other hand,
MHI has said that our faith is esoteric.
Lets see what this word means
es·o·ter·ic (ěs'ə-těr'ĭk)
adj. 1.
a.Intended for or understood by only a particular group: an esoteric cult. See Synonyms at mysterious.
b.Of or relating to that which is known by a restricted number of people.
c.Confined to a small group: esoteric interests.
d.Not publicly disclosed; confidential.
2.
a.Confined to a small group: esoteric interests.
b.Not publicly disclosed; confidential.
This book, if it gets into the hands of any non Ismaili can compromise the esoteric aspect of our faith.
Well Nagib,
This still doesn't take away your Ninda get out of jail free pass
Our Pirs have said "Gath bakshe Shah Pir bakshe"
Does this give you an exit from the situation?
I think so.
Shams
MHI has said that our faith is esoteric.
Lets see what this word means
es·o·ter·ic (ěs'ə-těr'ĭk)
adj. 1.
a.Intended for or understood by only a particular group: an esoteric cult. See Synonyms at mysterious.
b.Of or relating to that which is known by a restricted number of people.
c.Confined to a small group: esoteric interests.
d.Not publicly disclosed; confidential.
2.
a.Confined to a small group: esoteric interests.
b.Not publicly disclosed; confidential.
This book, if it gets into the hands of any non Ismaili can compromise the esoteric aspect of our faith.
Well Nagib,
This still doesn't take away your Ninda get out of jail free pass
Our Pirs have said "Gath bakshe Shah Pir bakshe"
Does this give you an exit from the situation?
I think so.
Shams
Re: ya ali madad
Instead of chiding these individuals - how about following the Ismaili ethic and the ismaili way and sit down and take out a tasbih for them? Astagafirullah on their behalfs? That is if we really feel they've done something majorly wrong..isn't that how our faith operates? or did we miss that boat?change786 wrote:What kind of ismaili can disobey hazirimam . Why in the world would someone publish mhi farmans and distribute them wheter making money or not . The isuue is not money . mhi has sent two letters to the individuals conserned and the individual concerned is not accepting it. Matters of faith belong to mhi only and the farms is a matter of faith. How come these individuals implicated can have the face to show up in the court . This is insane. Mhi has personally sent the letters to the individual concerned. Farmans is mhi property he does what he like to with. Shame on those people implicated who received the letters from mhi and thinking of going court against mhi .
Shams
Desperation
The publication of this book seems to me an act of frustrated desperation from murids who care too much.
How do we follow the Farmans of Imam if we do not have access to them.
For a while there it seemed to me that there was a gap of 1-2 decades between the Farmans being made and ultimately getting to me.
If I remember correctly our Baiyat involves following Farmans of Imam-e-Zaman.
Hopefully this book will light a fire under those whom Imam has given the responsibility of communicating His Farmans to Jamat.
The lawsuit does cover the asses of these (dare I say) incompetent ones.
Someone else did the job and they did not do it right so Imam has to file a suit against those who did it (for them, The incompetent ones)
Its akin to someone who complains about a blocked toilet to jamat bhai over and over and over and then out of frustration gets his own tools and fixes it himself.
Now Jamat bhai goes to Mukhi Saheb to complain and Mukhi Saheb has to rightfully confront this murid who did an "illegal" thing.
The well meaning murid is at fault legally,
But who forced his hand? Frustration, Desperation or some Profit motive
Yep he screwed up, no doubt about it in my mind, but maybe someone will notice and evidently Mowla Bapa himself has taken notice of this.
For those who think I am contradicting myself, I will say, I am just thinking aloud.
Looking at the situation from various angles, thats all.
Shams
How do we follow the Farmans of Imam if we do not have access to them.
For a while there it seemed to me that there was a gap of 1-2 decades between the Farmans being made and ultimately getting to me.
If I remember correctly our Baiyat involves following Farmans of Imam-e-Zaman.
Hopefully this book will light a fire under those whom Imam has given the responsibility of communicating His Farmans to Jamat.
The lawsuit does cover the asses of these (dare I say) incompetent ones.
Someone else did the job and they did not do it right so Imam has to file a suit against those who did it (for them, The incompetent ones)
Its akin to someone who complains about a blocked toilet to jamat bhai over and over and over and then out of frustration gets his own tools and fixes it himself.
Now Jamat bhai goes to Mukhi Saheb to complain and Mukhi Saheb has to rightfully confront this murid who did an "illegal" thing.
The well meaning murid is at fault legally,
But who forced his hand? Frustration, Desperation or some Profit motive
Yep he screwed up, no doubt about it in my mind, but maybe someone will notice and evidently Mowla Bapa himself has taken notice of this.
For those who think I am contradicting myself, I will say, I am just thinking aloud.
Looking at the situation from various angles, thats all.
Shams
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imranramji2008
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:14 pm
Re: Profit
ShamsB wrote:imranramji2008 wrote:THe hidayas that you post on the web are banned 100% but their are some firmans that are read that are artibuted to mowlana sultan mohummad shah that are not banned. I know this for a fact. My uncle is a waaizen. about the Nabi Isa and his hadith. I dont know how authentic that hadith is but i will say this much their is another hadith by prophet mohummad that says "those who see sin should squash it with their hands, if they cant do that they should squash it with their mouth and if yet they cant do that they should squash it in their soul". Simply put if i see some one sinning then i should put a stop to it with my hands, if i cant do that then i should stop it with my words and if i cant even do that i should not listent to the person sinning. I am trying to stop the person from sinning. ALSO PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT A TOTAL FIRMAN BIDARI MURID I HAVE MADE MISTAKES AND I HAVE SINNED, BUT IF I GET A LETTER FROM MHI I WILL NOT HAVE THE AUDICITY TO CHALLANGE MHIshamsu wrote: Please show me the hidayah where the Farmans of Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah are banned - for someone that was in Jamat Khana during Chaandrat you don't pay a lot of attention do you?
The Chaandrat farmans are Imam SMS's farmans, a lot of BUK farmans are MSMS's Farmans.
Please don't make blanket statements if you don't know the facts.
As for publication - there is a store in Houston which sells these books - they publish them themselves along with a lot of other material - why hasn't someone stopped them? You can walk into the store and say Ya Ali Madad and they'll assume you're an ismaili and take you to the books, forget that, they'll sell you Waez CDs on BUK and on other majlises without any verification.
I don't condone the publication of the book. I do condemn these public acts of stoning that we've taken - this mob mentality.
Nabi Issa/Jesus once uttered a famous phrase when it came to the stoning of a prostitute - "Let he who has NO sin, cast the first stone."
If you can stand here and tell us you are sin free and have not committed nafarmani..and you have authority vested in you by the Imam, then go for it.
Last time I checked, the Imam had not delegated this authority.
The intent of these individuals was not to make money - but to try and do good - whether rightfully guided or misguided is not for us to decide.
The issue is now between them and the Imam of the Time - why do you want to get involved? Let them work with the Imam and resolve this issue.
I am going to ask Admin to shut down this thread as well - because it's resulting in mud slinging.
Shams
TO THE ADMINISTRATOR i advice you to let this topic continue.
To Admin
Sorry ShamsB
I would like to request Admin Please do not lock this forum.
It is interesting to see how people are viewing this unprecedented event..
People, We are seeing history being written here.
I am happy to be here observing this process.
I would like to request Admin Please do not lock this forum.
It is interesting to see how people are viewing this unprecedented event..
People, We are seeing history being written here.
I am happy to be here observing this process.
Kill my baby
If I received a letter from Imam asking me to kill my baby, I would want to be certain it is authentic
This is their baby.
This is their baby.
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imranramji2008
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:14 pm
Re: Kill my baby
shamsu that is taking it to extreme both you and me know that is extreme. Ok lets say that the first letter was unauthentic. A second letter was then sent by MHI. Still i would say ok but these dispicable people then went to write a letter to Prince Amyn. Prince Amyn himself wrote back. What else damn proof do these people need.shamsu wrote:If I received a letter from Imam asking me to kill my baby, I would want to be certain it is authentic
This is their baby.
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imranramji2008
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:14 pm
Re: Profit
imranramji2008 wrote:ShamsB wrote:I know waezeen's that haven't been exactly 100% honest, and I've known many a leader that hasn't been a 100% honest either.imranramji2008 wrote: THe hidayas that you post on the web are banned 100% but their are some firmans that are read that are artibuted to mowlana sultan mohummad shah that are not banned. I know this for a fact. My uncle is a waaizen. about the Nabi Isa and his hadith. I dont know how authentic that hadith is but i will say this much their is another hadith by prophet mohummad that says "those who see sin should squash it with their hands, if they cant do that they should squash it with their mouth and if yet they cant do that they should squash it in their soul". Simply put if i see some one sinning then i should put a stop to it with my hands, if i cant do that then i should stop it with my words and if i cant even do that i should not listent to the person sinning. I am trying to stop the person from sinning. ALSO PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT A TOTAL FIRMAN BIDARI MURID I HAVE MADE MISTAKES AND I HAVE SINNED, BUT IF I GET A LETTER FROM MHI I WILL NOT HAVE THE AUDICITY TO CHALLANGE MHI
TO THE ADMINISTRATOR i advice you to let this topic continue.
The saying of Nabi Isa - read the bible...or better yet ask your uncle..who is a waezeen..he will know.
You probably see people sinning every single day..what have you done about it? You are no one to be judge and jury over anyone else....unless once again that appointment has come to you from the Imam himself...This is a matter between the Imam and his Murids.
Once again..you talk about the letter - you also admit that you don't follow the farmans - a case of the pot calling the kettle black? or are you one of that group that will do everything they can to defame other ismailies?
What these people did...whether right or wrong...whether against the farman of the Imam are not..is UPTO TO THE IMAM TO JUDGE..NOT YOU a LAY PERSON THAT DOESN'T EVEN GET THE BASE MEANING OF YOUR OWN FAITH.
Leave it up to the Imam...and let the Imam decide....you want to practice Ismailism - sit down and take out an astagifurullah tasbih on behalf of these individuals - if this action has really bothered you and hurt you.
and pray from the strength and the UNITY of the JAMAT - don't try to pick apart the Jamat...we are one family...help each other....we already have enough detractors externally....
I think what you need to realize is that the ACTION HAS ALREADY HAPPENED..the BOOKS ARE PUBLISHED AND DISTRIBUTED...and there is nothing that can be done to undo this.....
BTW..since you've laid a claim that the Hidaya's i've posted on the web are banned..please point them out to me..and tell me when and where they were banned..under what directive from the Imam of the time..
You admit you can't follow a simple farman...and you claim that you'll be able to obey a letter from the Imam..Nauzbillah that it ever get to that.
Don't judge someone else's action....lest you be judged for your own...
The Imam has not appointed you Judge or Jury or Executioner in this instance. Notice the lawsuit is not filed in the Council for Canada's name..but in the Imam's name himself...LET HIM HANDLE THIS...and pray for HIS MERCY for our brethern..and for UNITY IN OUR JAMAT.
and don't tell me that these folks aren't your brothers..because the Imam says..MY BELOVED SPIRITUAL CHILDREN...and by your saying..they're not..that's already nafarmani...forget the rest of the farmans.
Calm down..get some rest...
and if you're really into stopping some sin...seriously...go fight the taliban atrocities in Afghanistan.
Shams
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imranramji2008
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:14 pm
Re: Profit
ShamsB wrote:imranramji2008 wrote:ShamsB wrote:
Re: Profit
imranramji2008 wrote:ShamsB wrote:imranramji2008 wrote:
Why not destroy it
.
There has been one instance in history where Imam SMS ordered the destruction of a beautiful ginan because some of the murids misunderstood it and caused damage.
Does anyone know of other instances in history where Imam has asked for the destruction of His or Pir's words?
As I was listening to this announcement I was dreading every word, scared I will be ordered to destroy this book.
Shukar Mowla for not asking me to destroy it or to give it back to you and only asking for the unsold copies.
A boy steals from his Father to feed his siblings because the nanny whose job it is to feed them is not doing it.
He did not stop when the nanny told him to, not because he doesn't respect his Father's appointed nanny but because he is worried she will again not do her job.
He puts himself in a position to be rebuked (In this case legally) by the Father whom he loves dearly, fighting for the survival of his brothers and sisters.
He could be afraid his brothers and sisters may leave looking for food elsewhere.
Now we have the same siblings angry at him for what he did,
Nagib
It is true,
No good deed goes unpunished.
There is a Farman of Imam SMS where he tells us to spread his word to other Ismailies. I think he also asked us to do it in the form of sending letters.
He now wants us to stop spreading his word in written or recorded format.
All we have now is word of mouth which I know is frowned upon by our leaders.
They don't want us discussing Mowla's Farmans in our private homes with other Ismaili brothers and sisters. I know this because I had a home visit from them. I did not have the guts so I stopped.
Shams
.
There has been one instance in history where Imam SMS ordered the destruction of a beautiful ginan because some of the murids misunderstood it and caused damage.
Does anyone know of other instances in history where Imam has asked for the destruction of His or Pir's words?
As I was listening to this announcement I was dreading every word, scared I will be ordered to destroy this book.
Shukar Mowla for not asking me to destroy it or to give it back to you and only asking for the unsold copies.
A boy steals from his Father to feed his siblings because the nanny whose job it is to feed them is not doing it.
He did not stop when the nanny told him to, not because he doesn't respect his Father's appointed nanny but because he is worried she will again not do her job.
He puts himself in a position to be rebuked (In this case legally) by the Father whom he loves dearly, fighting for the survival of his brothers and sisters.
He could be afraid his brothers and sisters may leave looking for food elsewhere.
Now we have the same siblings angry at him for what he did,
Nagib
It is true,
No good deed goes unpunished.
There is a Farman of Imam SMS where he tells us to spread his word to other Ismailies. I think he also asked us to do it in the form of sending letters.
He now wants us to stop spreading his word in written or recorded format.
All we have now is word of mouth which I know is frowned upon by our leaders.
They don't want us discussing Mowla's Farmans in our private homes with other Ismaili brothers and sisters. I know this because I had a home visit from them. I did not have the guts so I stopped.
Shams
.
Re: Why not destroy it
The issue is that when the spoken word is recorded in a written form, the context of the message changes. What was meant to be a message for his murids becomes available to everyone, therefore when the message gets officially published MHI edits the message so that it is appropriate to be published.shamsu wrote:.
He now wants us to stop spreading his word in written or recorded format.
In the case of KIZ no such edition happens. In my opinion this is OK if the book was restricted to Ismailis only but unfortunately there are risks that others may access it as well. This seems to be the concern.