www.ismaili.net

Which is true and which to believe ?

There has been discussion on this issue under:

Ginans --> Ginan a conversion tool only or more?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... nans+quran

The Holy Qur’an in the Ginanic Literature – An Initial Exploration
Rashida Noormohamed-Hunzai,
London.

This paper seeks to demonstrate the underlying teachings of the holy Qur’an in the Ginanic Literature, therefore it is essential, first of all to describe the nature of the Qur’an, as well as that of the Ginans in order to understand better the relationship between them.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... n_US&pli=1

I used to be an ismaili but realised that if i want to go to heaven with my family then i must follow the true word of Allah. I done thorough research and have come to the conclusion that ismaili is a sect of islam of which has man made features. For example the ginanas, these were made by a peer/man. Allah didn't put his divine spirit in to these ginans they were written by some idiot who doesn't worship Allah alone and assosciates partners with Allah, which is shirk, te worst sin in Islam. he main problem is everyone follows the fake mowla bapa, he is a false imam, he claimed to be a prophet in his earlier days, which according to the quran means he will go to hell, prophet muhammed (pbuh) was the last prophet. The quran says after prophet muhammed there will be 30 false prophet claimants and elijah muhammed (nation of islam) is one, mowla bapa two, and so on, the antichrist/dajjal will be the last and final deciever.

I can proove all of this to you guys.

he worst part is Ya Ali Madat, this means in arabic, 'O Ali Help Us', Ali gets sins everytime an ismaili says this as he is not god he is just a man, just like the prophet muhammed. Only Allah can help.
There is a sect called Ahmadies, they worship/ask prophet muhammed for help like ismailis do with ali. This is extremely wrong, they asked Allah for help and you guys ask them doesn it make sense to you? Allah is everywhere, and "is closer to you than your jugular vein". You needn't need a middleman. Any questions on the true islam i will be glad to answer.

Ismaili's were hindus who were converted by some corrupted iranian peers who have made you and your ancestors worship a man.

Shah kairim al hussaini is not the last imam, the last imam is Imam Al Mahdi, who will be with Jesus when the anti christ comes. Mowla bapa is fake!

Now i'll show to you what you don't want to see:

GINAN NO. 44
HAK TU(N) PAAK TU BAADSHAAH
-BY PEER SHAMS-

hak tu(n) paak tu(n) baadshaah maher baan bee
Ya Ali tu(n)hi tu...1
You are the Just, You are the Sinless,
Oh Ali the Gracious Heavenly King, You are indeed all.

rab tu(n) rahemaan tu(n) ya ali aval akhar
kazi tu(n)hi tu........2
You are the Sustainer, You are the Merciful,
Oh Ali, You are the First and the Last, the Judge, You are indeed all.

te upaayaa te nipaayaa sirjann haar
ya ali tu(n)hi tu.............3
You are the one who originated and You are the one who created, Oh Ali you the Creator, You are indeed all.

jal thal mull mandal haar naa
ya ali hukam teraa bi tu(n)hi tu....4
In the water and on the land, You have laid the
roots (foundations, of creation),
Oh Ali everything therein and on is
at Your command, You are indeed all.

teri dostee me boliyaa peer shamsh
me bandaa teraa bi tu(n)hi tu..5
In Your friendship says Peer Shamsh: "I am also Your
created being", You are indeed all.


Ali is nit the great heavenly king get that through ur heads, this is why i left ismailism and became a real muslim, no sunni not shia, just following the teachings of the quran best as i can.

The ginan shown clearly worships Ali and is Shirk. Lastly, Al-Ali refers to Allah but Ya-Ali is referring to Muhammad's cousin.

Well my muslim brother, mrz shariff, as you said that you are neither a shia nor a sunni and just follows the teaching of Quran, As far as the Quran which i have read, i never came across any verse that says you are allowed to abuse anyone who does not follows the islam or you think who is not following true islam.

I would have loved to discuss with you about ismaili but i believe it would be pointless and i think you won't be able to understand it.

I don't know shariff bhai whether you know Arabic or not, but if you don't know Arabic then i must say that the Quran which you read is also not the Quran which Allah blessed the Human kind with, because any translation of Quran is just a mere interpretation of what the translator thinks. However the Quran which i have read in that allah says none other then RASIQUN ILM (misspelled) are able to understand Quran completely.

Anyway i hope Allah bless you with the correct guidance.

just following the teachings of the quran best as i can.

Dear not a Shia and not a Sunny!
Do you thing Quran is easy to understand? I don't think so, in my opinion and as per many scholars it is not easy because we can not understand Quran very well then how can some one say that he/she follow as per Quran's teachings? be honest with you brother/sister to follow 100% Quran's teaching is not possible, in this morden time, it was not easy before and it will not easy in future because it is very hard to understand for an ordinary men not only you and me but it is very hard to understand, digest and follow for a big Ulams, Aalims and big scholars too, now ask a question to your self, are you really follow Quran's teaching? your soul will give you correct answer. I am not the only one saying that Quran is very hard but big Ulams, big Aalims and big scholars also believe same way, when big ulamas , aalims and scholars also confess that it is hard to understand and follow correctly then how an ordinary man like me and you ( please excuse me if you are a scholar or big aalim ) can follow Quran when we can not understand it properly?
Why we need Imam?
In last 1400 years, thousands and thousands translations and interpretation of Holy Quran has been made but these translations and interpretations does not match with each other, some interpreter say something and other say some thing they are not tally with each others , now for ordinary men like me and you question arise here, whom should we follow? and whom should we not follow? this question is not solved yet for a long time, so we need some one knowledgeable person (Khulafa Ar-Rashideen) who can tell us what is right and what is wrong according the situation,necessity and condition and in our opionion this person is our Hazar Imam who guide us for our any Ruhani and worldly problems.

SECOND QURAN IS NOT COMPLETE!
Do you think Quran is complete? I pardon you but in my opinion no, why? answer is very simple now a days we can not find many answers of current issues in Quran, let me give you few example for that:-
*Donating organs are allowed in Islam or not?
*Raise a test tube child is permissible in Islam or not?
* Child born with Surrogate mother is haram or halal child?
and I bet you you will not able to find answer any where in Quran of these and many other questions in Quran; so basically Quran is not complete and if it complet as many scholars beleive then Quran doesn't have answers of many questions areising now a days, now whom should you ask for a help when quran doesn't have answer? do you consider this Quran as a complete Quran which don't have answers of our all question? I don't Quran is our holy book and I respect it as other Muslims does.

About Ginans:-
Ismaili Ginans are treasure of gold, our Imam say it is wonderful tradition unfortunately many peoples who can not understand Gujarati very well they often say ginan is nothing, we don't need any more or ginans were made to convert Hindus; but brother read ginans deeply and I bet you will find lots of information in ginans , Astagafirullah I don't have any intention to prove that ginans are superior then Quran, no brother, matter of facts ginans are interpretation of Quran but the stories or examples taken in ginans are from Hindu cultural and history because if pirs give example of some Arabic persons then they would not had understand because they were totally unaware about the Arabic or Persian history so our pirs took example from Indian history. and many Ismailis can not digest this (specially Pakistani islmailis)
Ginans are also loaded with many information which you wont find in quran for a example; how this universe was created first? what is the measurement of moon, sun, how far away ? how many rivers are there? how many continentals are? what will happen during Zahurat? how old this earth is? when this universe will be vanished? how many organs human being have? how child evolve in mother womb? how many universes are there? how many sky and netherlands? e.t.c.
you name it and you will find it in Ismaili ginans, only thing you need to understand it very well and with patience I think I answered about your criticism on ginans,
In short:-
Ginans were treasure before and will remain treasure in future for the treasure hunters and ginans wont be lost soon.

I think you will read my post carefully and try to understand what is real and what is not, and hope that yo will back on right path (Nizari ismaili) after all Ismailis are Muslims first and Ismailis second, we also believe in one (and only one) Allah, we also believe in Quran, prophets and day of judgement same like other Muslims believe so what you make to depart from a true Ismaili sect?
I intentionally left your criticisms unanswered thinking that some one else may come forward like 'XINGNIFYE"and answer it.

he worst part is Ya Ali Madat, this means in arabic, 'O Ali Help Us', Ali gets sins everytime an ismaili says this as he is not god he is just a man, just like the prophet muhammed. Only Allah can help.



GINAN NO. 44
HAK TU(N) PAAK TU BAADSHAAH
-BY PEER SHAMS-

hak tu(n) paak tu(n) baadshaah maher baan bee
Ya Ali tu(n)hi tu...1
You are the Just, You are the Sinless,
Oh Ali the Gracious Heavenly King, You are indeed all.

rab tu(n) rahemaan tu(n) ya ali aval akhar
kazi tu(n)hi tu........2
You are the Sustainer, You are the Merciful,
Oh Ali, You are the First and the Last, the Judge, You are indeed all.

te upaayaa te nipaayaa sirjann haar
ya ali tu(n)hi tu.............3
You are the one who originated and You are the one who created, Oh Ali you the Creator, You are indeed all.

jal thal mull mandal haar naa
ya ali hukam teraa bi tu(n)hi tu....4
In the water and on the land, You have laid the
roots (foundations, of creation),
Oh Ali everything therein and on is
at Your command, You are indeed all.

teri dostee me boliyaa peer shamsh
me bandaa teraa bi tu(n)hi tu..5
In Your friendship says Peer Shamsh: "I am also Your
created being", You are indeed all.


Ali is nit the great heavenly king get that through ur heads, this is why i left ismailism and became a real muslim, no sunni not shia, just following the teachings of the quran best as i can.

The ginan shown clearly worships Ali and is Shirk. Lastly, Al-Ali refers to Allah but Ya-Ali is referring to Muhammad's cousin.[/quote]



In reference to your saying regarding Ali I would just like to say that
"Ali is the name which Allah chose for himself and you can also find that in the 99 names of Allah" so when an ismaili says ya ali madad or when ever Ali names comes in ginan it is referred as Allah.....

I agree with xignifye, if you aren't consider Hazarat Ali (s.a.) as a first Imam and don't want to seek help from him then you can still seek help from "Ali" as one of Allahbarhaktala's holy name.
YA ALI ( A NAME OF ALLAH) MADAD
You can translate as;-
"Oh Allah help me" rather then saying "Oh Ali help me"!.