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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Dilema on Dasond (please help)
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Dilema on Dasond (please help)

 
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20014413



Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Dilema on Dasond (please help) Reply with quote

YAM,<BR>I have a dilema about dasond. It has been bothering me for sometime.<BR>I am a student with no current source of income. I am taking a loan from the government and bank to pay for tuition and living expenses. The question is should i take out dasond o&shy;n the borrowed money?<BR>If your answer is yes, how would the repayment of loan work? When i start earning money would i take out dasond from paycheck before paying my loan instalment or should i take out dasond after paying the installment?<BR>Thank you in advance for your opinions. Any refrences provided with your answers would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. <BR>Thanx,
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znanwalla



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no dilemma ! I am even surprised that you ask such a question because dasond is given from an income (which is nett income) and that too must be "halal" income and not "haram ni kamai" !

You have an obligation to pay off your debts first and earn your livelihood justly and honorably....try and understand the ethic behind what we do? whilst the salat (Du'a) restrains you from shameful deeds, Dasond purifies one from sins and purifies the heart from the "love of wealth" and material greed !

Salat and dasond are the Two Pillars of Iman ! Allah is neither unjust nor cruel...if you have no income then the issue is clear as far as I can see....hope this helps and I hope that this was a sincere and honest question also, having no ulterior motives....the day you have an income then you have a definite obligation to pay or Allah describes those who don't as "niggardly" and it is in the quran...

There are many who have left our faith, i believe, because they did not want to pay dasond....my view is that this is their loss - not that of Allah or HIS Prophet !
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20014413



Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Znanwala: First of all thank you for your response<BR>You dont have to be surprised that i asked this question because not everyone has the same level of knowledge and understanding.<BR>You said Dasond should be given from net income. Why not gross? do you have any source or reasoning to back that claim? The reason why i say gross is coz return for the taxes that we pay we get benefits from the goverment (canada), example free health care, welfare, etc etc. In countries where these things are not freely available people pay for this with money from whihc dasond is first taken out.<BR>I appreaciate your response but it seems more of a perspective with little evidence (farman,&nbsp;ginan etc)&nbsp;to support it.<BR>Any other reasoning from other members?
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znanwalla



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ismailis do not have a book of Fiqh because they do not need it. Ismailis have a Living Imam and PIR amidst them and our Holy Imams and Pirs have actually removed all confusion about paying DASOND and Yes, it is from the NETT Income after deduction of taxes ....Dasond is paid from the "pure earnings" and not from any monies owing to the State or other people's property....and so the tax obligation means that tax portion owing does NOT belong to you and hence it is NOT part of your pure earnings...can you pay dasond from any money that does not belong to you? if so then even if the debts you claim you have, you should be paying and not asking if it is payable or not....am I right?
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naushad25



Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is actually very good question and i bet not every one knows abt it. I am studying on scholarship and i asked this question to Rai Kamaluddin Missionary. He said u have to give dasond from his or any loan but Maula has given students some lineincy over that i.e., u can give dasond after u complete ur studies and start earning something. but still u have to give dasond. this thing abt gross or net, that i dont know but u need u give dasond from the money which ur geting in ur hand for ur own purpose. if ur getting any profits on that, u need to give dasoond over that profit as well. if ur not getting any cash on hand, but u know someone else is paying like scholarship directly paid to university, still u need to find how much and take out dasoond from it. if ur getting something like health insurance, then u have to give dasoond whenever u use any money from that. i hope ur getting my point. tax is different thing and dasond is different. see missionaries are right hand of Hazir imam and they are educated abt everything and have easy access to imam as well, so we have to believe them. thats my source. if u want to ask more, go to www.kamalzar.com and contact Kamaluddin Missionary.

thank u
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znanwalla



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scholarship is not a loan ! it is a prize or a grant given and so the advice given to you is correct !

Allah says....."who would lend me a goodly loan and he would multiply it for him and for him will be a rich reward.." (57:11).......

The fourth article of our faith is Dasond !

Dasond or "dasaans" means the tenth part or 10%.....The Holy Prophet has said : Give away tenth part of ...... (Baithaqi)

He has explained it thus :

One leather bag of honey out of every ten leather bags is obligatory. (Tirmidhi)

Hadrat Abu Siyadah has reported : I went to the Holy Prophet and said, O Prophet of Allah ! I have kept bees whereupon he instructed me to give away the tenth part.

On the basis of these traditions, the Hanafites, the Ahl alHadith, Ahmad bin Hanba, Umar bin Abdul Aziz and others are agreed that one is subject to Ushr.

Imam Shafei in one of his sayings has expressed a similar opinion, and Ibn Umar and Ibn Abbas from among the Companions have also supported the same view....yet you will find the Sunnis are NOT paying Ushr (khums) but only Sadaqa of 2.5% .

Many translators of the Quran have unfortunately translated the word "Zakat" as "dues for the poor" but this is not correct !

Zakat is NOT Sadaqa !

Zakat must be given to the Prophet and/or to the Imams of Ahl al Bayt or his appointed officers and nobody can or should spend dasond of the Imam on his behalf or accord.

It is considered the return of 'amanat".

Imam has said..."Maal e Wajib" that is to say Dasond is the Imam's right and it is the foundation of the religion and whosoever pays will remain steadfast in faith.


Now the Holy Quran has no "fixed rate" of the Zakat but the Prophet, the Caliphs and the various jurists made different rates for different sources of income...let me give you some examples...(a) from unexpected gains or booty it was one-fifth (khums) (b) from agriculture it was one-tenth(ushr)...(c) from accumulated wealth or capital it was one-fortieth (2.5%) annually....

And so the muslims pay 2.5% based on what their jurists/Mullahs have said to them to pay.....but this system they follow is NOT based on the Quran which is very important to understand.

On the evidence of the revealed law (sharia) and the tanzil of this revealed law, the "trust" or "amanat" which the heavens, the earth and the mountains were unable to accept, was accepted by the humankind and Allah says..." WE offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains but they REFUSED to carry it and were afraid of it and MAN carried it..."

Only after accepting this trust that humankind deserved the prostration of the angels who are the noblest in creation and the angels bowed to Adam (except satan) but the angels testified to the descent of the MANIFESTATION of this person of DIVINE Knowledge (Shakhs i marifat i bari) amongst the individuals of the human species when he appeared amongst the human species and that is why as long as this world remains it can never be devoid of the Imam even for a short time as the world would become convulsed..."

Imamat exists since then - not since just 1400 years ! Imams have always existed .

Imamat is not a concoction of the ismailis - neither a new phenomena - Imamat is traced from Hazrat Adam, Abraham through the Prophets and finally through our own Nabi Rasoolillah....

"Lo ! of the covenant they will be asked..." says Allah !

So those who pay back the Khums are not doing any favour but simply giving back their own trusts...and we do confirm this also in our Du'a...."and fulfill your trusts whilst ye know...."...it is an all encompassing word....but where does it begin from?


Ismailis do not have a book of "fiqh" because we do not need it as we have a "Living Imam" who has discretion and our PIRS have removed all confusion about paying dasond and they have said it is one-eighth or 12.5% on one's NETT Income that is after deduction of taxes but NOT of any Insurance premiums or contributions made for personal benefits.....

Allays says to obey the Olil Amr ! The Pir o Mushid has told us what to give....

It is the Pir's responsibility and mandate to propagate faith....the PIR o Murshid (the mother who guides the children and show them the "straight path" which is the Imam e Zamana as it is the mother who introduces the father to the child and the child accepts this blindly on trust as the mother is the most trusted being - right? )

Thus the dasond includes the Ushr and the "shariati "zaka" and is all encompassing....The Imam has said that dasond must only be paid from profits earned ethically and rightfully - not from any immoral earnings....10% plus 2.5% = 12.5%

Dasond is given to the Imam in order to purify ourselves as well as the income that we earn and then spend for ourselves, becomes "halal". Otherwise what the children eat becomes "haram" conversely !

Many people also pay "Saar" which is a dasond "in kind" instead of cash.

There are many verses in the Quran about Khums, ushr and zakat.

"Dasaans" in prakrat language means 10% and our Pirs used this terminolgy for the arabic "ushr".

In the Bible it is known as "tithe" - the Quran has used it in the sense of "purification" from sins.

As per the Bible tithe is a commandment. Now see what the Bible says...

" And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the family of the tree, is the Lord's; it is holy unto the Lord and if a man will at all redeem ought of this tithe, he shall add thereto the FIFTH PART thereof...".....and this too is mentioned in the Quran and if I was to divide the one -fifth into five parts and if in the early days Three portions was given to the Imams, then it roughly works out at 12% also.....

Obligatory prayer and Zakat (Khums) have been placed as basic ordinances of the religion of every Prophet and according to the Quran even Abraham, Moses, ishmael and Jesus were ordered to pay Zakat !
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