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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Khat Nirinjan - With or Without Translation
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Khat Nirinjan - With or Without Translation

 
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prince_visram
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Khat Nirinjan - With or Without Translation Reply with quote

Just wondering if this Ginan is available on our site, I have read the article titled "The Concept of “GOD beyond God” in the Khat Nirinjan of Pir Sadardin" but i havent managed to find this Granth. If anyone has it, with or without the translation, i would really appreciate it. Thank you.

Article:

http://www.ismaili.net/Source/tajdin/1294d.pdf
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 21494

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a translation and a transcription of selected verses of Khat Nirinjan in Ginans Volume - 7 compiled by Zarina/Kamaluddin Ali Muhammad.

My understanding of the word Khat is different than what has been explained in the article. In a verse of Aarti - Sahentar Dipme Shah Zaher Bethha, Pir Sadardeen says:

eji khat darshan to sunya pujaaye
satpanth dharamko maram na paaye.........aartee keeje.........7

O momins! The six schools of Hindu philosophy(or the six methods of salvation) are void of real worship since they have not attained the inner mysteries of the Right Path (i.e. the recognition of the True Guide).

The word khat means six and khat darshan means six methods of salvation prevailing at the time of Pir Sadardeen. Khat Nirinjan would then mean the Nirinjan (the unseeable God) of the six schools of philosophy symbolic of many diverse paths leading to God. The Khat Nirinjan is then the object of the worship of all the ways and is manifested in the Imam.

It is my hope and intention to translate the entire Khat Nirinjan one day.
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nagib



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khat Darshan's translation has been popularized by Ivanow.

As in all Ginans there are multiple layers of interpretations.

In the same way, Darshan has also many meanings such as school of though, even Didar [In Darshan diyo mora nath], etc..

For example Khat Ghari may at a first level of interpretation be taken as 2 hours of the end of the night [6 ghari of 22.5 minutes] and while this interpretation may not be wrong, it does also mean at a deeper level the "Highest" ghari, as it is the one ghari when the Noor manifest itself during Bandagi.

Khat Nirinjan stands by itself, not necessarily linked to other following sentence. So is also the case for the title's meaning. The expression Khat Nirinjan does not convey the meaning "6 gods."

To restrict the meaning of Khat to the classical known translation does not do justice to the richness of the word.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 21494

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagib wrote:
Khat Darshan's translation has been popularized by Ivanow.

As in all Ginans there are multiple layers of interpretations.


Nagib, is there a translation of Ivanow around. Could you provide details?

Yes there can be many ways of interpreting Ginans....
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nagib



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ivanow has not translated Khat Nirinjan as he himself did not know any of the indic languages.

However the expression Khat Darshan has been translated as 6 school of thoughts in his "Collectanae I. Ismaili Society Series A, 2. Leiden: Brill, 1948. Pp. 1-54. "

The same translations were repeated thereafter by a multitude of "scholars" who never went into finding any other meaning to the expression.

I remember reading this when I was compiling "A Bibliography of Ismailism" published at Caravan Books about 25 years ago [are we old or what icon_wink.gif
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prince_visram
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
There is a translation and a transcription of selected verses of Khat Nirinjan in Ginans Volume - 7 compiled by Zarina/Kamaluddin Ali Muhammad.

My understanding of the word Khat is different than what has been explained in the article. In a verse of Aarti - Sahentar Dipme Shah Zaher Bethha, Pir Sadardeen says:

eji khat darshan to sunya pujaaye
satpanth dharamko maram na paaye.........aartee keeje.........7

O momins! The six schools of Hindu philosophy(or the six methods of salvation) are void of real worship since they have not attained the inner mysteries of the Right Path (i.e. the recognition of the True Guide).

The word khat means six and khat darshan means six methods of salvation prevailing at the time of Pir Sadardeen. Khat Nirinjan would then mean the Nirinjan (the unseeable God) of the six schools of philosophy symbolic of many diverse paths leading to God. The Khat Nirinjan is then the object of the worship of all the ways and is manifested in the Imam.

It is my hope and intention to translate the entire Khat Nirinjan one day.


Thank you very much for the both of your explanations, it really helped my understanding. Please inform me if anyone does find out if there is a ginan text online. Thanks so much.
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