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Jelaluddin Rumi
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Joined: 15 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 9:32 pm    Post subject: Jelaluddin Rumi Reply with quote

Was he an Ismaili i.e. Did he do Baiyat of Imam?
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 5:25 pm    Post subject: Jalaludin Rumi Reply with quote

Jalaudin Rumi was Ismaili.He was non ismaili but later he became ismaili
.It is farman of Imam Sultan Mohammad shah to teach and explain books of Maulana Roumi and Noor-e-mubin to children for their religious education.
{read faman from book Khazina Jawahir}

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 5:36 pm    Post subject: Maulana Roumi Reply with quote

This is another proof that Maulana Roumi was Ismaili .According to Babul Missionary Maulana Rumi said abot concept of Imamat that THE RELATION OF IMAM AND WORLD IS LIKE THAT OF BODY AND SOUL .IF SOUL LEFTS THE BODY THE MAN DIES SIMILARLY IF IMAM WILL BE NOT PRESENT IN THIS WORLD THAN THIS UNIVERSE WLL BE DESTROYED.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Maulana Roumi Reply with quote

star_munir wrote:
This is another proof that Maulana Roumi was Ismaili .According to Babul Missionary Maulana Rumi said abot concept of Imamat that THE RELATION OF IMAM AND WORLD IS LIKE THAT OF BODY AND SOUL .IF SOUL LEFTS THE BODY THE MAN DIES SIMILARLY IF IMAM WILL BE NOT PRESENT IN THIS WORLD THAN THIS UNIVERSE WLL BE DESTROYED.

Please term what the farman says and not what Babul Missionary says. Ismailis goes as per the farmans and not otherwise. Everyone should be his or her's own missionary. Your way is completely wrong. I have got emails wherein I have been given to understand that there is one babul missionary in mumbai who goes against the farmans of mawlana hazar imam, dua, ismaili constitution, etc. etc. The things he does has already been brought to the notice of the tariqah boards, national councils, etc. because the emails (BCC) I received had email addresses of tariqah board, national councils, etc. So this is this.

Please let me know on what basis did you mention
"This is another proof that Maulana Roumi was Ismaili .According to Babul Missionary" Has hazar imam ever given Babul the authority whereby you consider him the proof because he says this is this. Do you mean to say that that babul missionary is the proof that the ismaili tariqah is wrong because he goes against the farmans, duas, ismaili constitution, etc.. You are again making me sick.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 9:11 pm    Post subject: Ninda Reply with quote

Here is something from budh avatar

127. Then Bhim says: Lord, I'd like to ask a question:
Who, amongst men, is the best?

128. Then Shri Budh openly replied:
Let Me tell you who is the best of men.

129. The one who has met Gur Bhirma
Has reached salvation

130. The one who pays Dassond with honesty
Reaches salvation

131. He who gives his thoughts to God
Who keeps spiritual knowledge in his heart

132. He who goes regularly to Jamatkhana
That one is the best of men.

133. He who is merciful, tolerant
He who respects the forty (good) deeds (11)

134. He who renounces anger
Is the best of men.

135. He who renounces greediness
Ill deeds and selfishness

136. He who is aware of the five good actions (12)
Is the best of men.

137. He who keeps in his thoughts the words of the Master
He who obeys his Master

138. He who is truthful, tolerant and content
Is the best of men.

139. He who lives humbly,
Confides his happiness and misfortune to God

140. He who's heart does not forget God
Is the best of men.

141. He who serves his mother and his father
Who hates vandalism and gossiping

142. He who supports his whole family
Who likes to meditate on God

143. He who gives knowledge to others
Is the best of men.

144. He who is respected by people
He who is not criticized either in his community or outside

145. He who can dominate his words, deeds and temptations
He who does not speak ill of others

146. He who is merciful and tolerant
Is the best of men.

147. Then Bhim says: Listen, Lord of the Time,
I would like to ask one question.

148. Amongst women, who is the best?
Explain it to me, O Lord.

149. Then Shri Budh openly replied:
I will tell you who is the best of women.

150. She who serves God
She who keeps the Words of God in her thoughts

151. She who remembers the Name of God
She who respects the forty good deed (13)

152. She who is charitable and tolerant
Is the best of women.

153. She who keeps knowledge in her heart
She who respects her parents-in-law

154. She who does not get angry, even on hearing lies
She who has the innocence of a kid

155. She who walks with humility
Is the best of women.

156. She who never eats food before having served God (14)
She who makes sure her guest does not leave her place hungry

157. She who gives a little of the little she possesses
That woman can maybe called generous

158. She who practises her faith
Is the best of women

159. She who stays under the protection of her husband
She who confides her happiness and worries to God

160. She who serves God
The Most Truthful

161. She who lives humbly in this world
That one is the best of women.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 9:21 pm    Post subject: Ninda Reply with quote

These are the last few parts of MOTI VENTI.

ejee sohaag saamee maaraa aapajo, je ana(n)t thee utthaay
unnaa puraa je aashva(n)taa, saamee sarve paar la(n)gaay
maher karo..................................................45

Lord, the status of my marriage lies in Your hands, and You have
assumed the charge of it since countless ages (infinity).
The imperfect, the perfect and even those who simply wish
for salvation; to all grant salvation, O Lord!

ejee ni(n)daa ne je koi ochare, te gurnarthee raheshe dur
tene shetaan choferathee faree valle, tene geenaan nahee sujere sur
maher karo................................46

Whoever indulges in backbiting and slander, will remain remote
from the Guide and the Master(Gur Nar). The satanic power will
overcome and turn around this person. He/She will never be
inspired to acquire the Divine knowledge and wisdom.

ejee elam veenaa je vaat chhe, te haiddo futtee ne jaay
evaa jeev amathee allagaa raakhajo, to amane sohaag-j hoy
maher karo..................................................47

Any discourse without (true) knowledge, shreads the heart.
Lord keep me away from such souls, so that I may remain
in the state of being married only (without any corruption).

ejee saa(m)bhallo reekheesar karannee karo, to devne man bhaave
sukareet shabda ollakho, to ape arpeene aavo
maher karo..................................................48

Listen O believers, be virtuous (in deed and thought),
so that you become dear to the Lord. Recognise (the Imaam)
by good deeds and (the remembrance of) the Holy Word (Name)
and thus surrender yourself completely to Him.

ejee sat shabde shaastre chaaljo, to satgur sa(n)gat thaay
satgur ne radeh raakho munivaro, to prem-j paavo
maher karo..................................................49

Conduct yourselves according to the True Word and the
holy scriptures (which includes the current farmaans),
so that you may aquire the frienship of the True Guide.
O believers, keep the True Guide in your hearts,
so that you may attain love only(and nothing else).

ejee peer hasan kabeerdeen naaree thaine vinave, sreevar saamee ne vallagu
aaj kaljug maa(n)he jo gurnar ne ollakho, to kadee nahee thaashe allagu
maher karo..............................50

Peer Hassan Kabeerdeen becoming a wife supplicates,
and holds the hands of her Lord (the Husband,Imaam).
(Having attained the state of spiritual marriage himself gives
the assurance that) whosoever in the present age recognises
the Guide and the Imaam(Gur Nar), will never be abandoned.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 9:57 pm    Post subject: Hadith Sahih Muslim Reply with quote


Book 001, Number 0189:
It is reported from Hudhaifa that news reached him (the Holy Prophet) that a certain man carried tales. Upon this Hudhaifa remarked: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) saying: The tale-bearer shall not enter Paradise.

Book 001, Number 0190:
It is reported on the authority of Hammam b, al-Harith that a man used to carry tales to the governor. We were sitting in the mosque. the people said: He is one who carries tales to the governor. He (the narrator) said: Then he came and sat with us. Thereupon Hudhaifa remarked: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) saying: The beater of false tales would never enter heaven.

Book 001, Number 0191:
It is narrated on the authority of Hammam b. al-Harith: We were sitting with Hudhaifa in the mosque. A man came and sat along with us. It was said to Hudhaifa that he was the man who carried tales to the ruler. Hudhaifa remarked with the intention of conveying to him: I have heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) saying: The tale-bearer will not enter Paradise.
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Maulana Roumi Reply with quote

star_munir wrote:
Logical I think you have habbit of making arguments without any reason.First read what I have post than make arguments and questions
I have write farman first with reference of book than quoted what mssionary says.Read what is Farman.Jalaudin Roumi was Ismaili according to Farman.
Regarding Babul missionary,yes his waez are bannaed in Mumbai and waez cassetes are rarely available but he do waez in USA.Tariqa board ban farman and ginan too thats not mean that they are in any way wrong or against religions.WORDS OF Ginans are changed but that also not means they are wrong.


Re: Babul missionary

Nairobi, Kenya. Wednesday, March 15,1967. Darkhana Jamatkhana (you have not verified the KIZ1,2,3 for wordings - hope this farman is OK shamsu).

I do not want My spiritual children to listen to rumours and to propagate rumours. I do not want My spiritual children when they talk to each other to say, well so and so saw Hazar Imam a month ago and Hazar Imam said so and so to-day and this and that, and they quote this to the Jamat from one to the other. This is not the way I will convey My Farman to the Jamat in any part of the world. If I have a Farman to make, it will be made through My Jamat leaders whom I have appointed to translate messages to My Jamat.

As per the email I received in BCC (the email was addressed to [directly or indirectly - TO, CC] tariqah board, council, etc.) babul said things in the jamatkhana things about hazar imam ------- which does not appear in any of the farmans of mawlana hazar imam. In fact telling a lie about mawlana hazar imam is a sin and going against the farmans of mawlana hazar imam is also a sin - and as per the emails received - one of the witness of the complainant is mawlana hazar imam himself. --- HOPE THIS CLEARS THE MATTER ------

There are other things mentioned in the email like babul saying hazar imam banning his own farmans - KIM1,2. Even KIZ1,2,3 are not available - and that is that.

As i said :

one of the witness of the complainant is mawlana hazar imam himself. --- HOPE THIS CLEARS THE MATTER ------

At the same time - the emails revealed that the people working in the council misdirected the complainant about filing the complaint and saying lies and lies and lies and not giving a proper reply and the chairman at that time mentioning he is ready to support the complainant provided he does not file a complaint as per the ismaili consititution and all that. It is also clear from the file attachments that the complainant had also recorded the telephone conversation he had with the members.

Finally when nothing was been done the complainant mentioned that the entire correspondence also be forwarded to MHI for his perusal and necessary action and he was told by people working in council that this will be done and subsequent when asked about the status the people used to put the phone down .... and all this things is happening.

Also the topics included the photograph of hazar imam being removed without his permission and against his farmans, farman books not printed, people in tariqah board, council, etc. rumor mongering, etc. etc. and what not.

as mentioned earlier - one of the witness of the complainant is mawlana hazar imam himself --- and hence no one is ready to proceed with complaint because mawlana hazar imam being one of the witness will make things clear you know.
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:20 am    Post subject: I am very sorry to hear that. Reply with quote

Ya Aly Madad roxy,

I am very sorry to hear that.

The photograph removal was very painful because I know what it means.

When Imam SMS used to send his photographs to the Jamats for display, he used to say that they are supposed to remind us about how much he loves us.

So when they were removed it was clear to me that we have forgotten how much he loves us and so the form had to go as the essence did not remain in the awareness of the Jamat either.

It is like taking off the wedding ring when the wife or husband files for divorce and moves out due to having no more love or dedication to the relationship.

It is a very sorry state of affairs with the essence of the faith at this time.

I expect other forms of blessings to be taken away too as the essence is also dissappearing.

For example the different mandli majlis' etc.

The majlis' hold meaning only if we hold true to the Farmans Mowla Bapa makes to that mandli.

What is the point of having a blessing if it is not used and taken for granted.

This blatant disregard for the Imam and his Farmans comes from ignorance, nothing else.

Knowledge is the only cure for this endemic cancer of ignorance.

Let us fight this ignorance with the effort we put into our research and religious study and keep up the debates.

This website is the best thing that has happened to the average Ismaili in the last 90 years.

The forums are an international platform to exchange ideas and to challenge each other, thereby stimulating the intellect to grow.

I am eternally grateful to Mowla Bapa for from Heritage Society
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: I am very sorry to hear that. Reply with quote

Shamsu - please let me know which farman mention about the things you mention. The photographs of mawlana hazar imam were there in the jamatkhana and have been removed whereas there has been no such farman. The farmans are also banned so people do not know about their own religion and to add to this there is rumor mongering so people fall for the rumor mongering in absence of farmans.

However the imam is smarter - the dua, prayers makes things clear.

For example, in the dua you know there is a verse from the Quran -

O you, who believe, obey allah and obey the prophet and the holders of authority from amongst you.

-- now when there was holders of authority where was the question of having elections. This one verse says it all but have you pondered it? This verse demonstrates and proves that the abu baker, umar and usman betrayed allah and the holy prophet taking into account that the holders of authority was present and still they had elections and appointed themselves one after the other in connivance with one another.

As i said the dua, prayers, farmans makes things clear.

Deedar is very important - you find this in prayers, you find this in dua, you find this in farmans. Even the ismaili constitution calls for the photograph of mawlana hazar imam. Even the quran mention about seeking face of the lord morning and evening. If i remember right,the person mentioned that wall, wooden things, mikes, etc. kept in the front are given importance and the photographs are rejected. This is clearly going against the ismaili constitution, dua, prayers, farman, quran, etc.

The farman you sent me :

"I am speaking to you by means of an electro-magnetic tape-recording machine, but I want you to listen as if I am standing here and speaking to you in this room. "

Similar is the photograph - it is like He is in front of us in the Jamatkhana.

Re: Ginans and Farmans (earlier posting by star_munir which I missed out)
sultan mohd shah mentioned ginans are his farmans - also there are farmans of mawlana hazar imam regarding ginans. The ismaili constitution calls for farmans, ginans, to be published - so everything is OK here. The person who supports people working in tarqah board doing things right by not printing ginans and farmans because ginans and farmans are wrong better take back his words because it goes against the farmans, ismaili constitution.

I understand the person's emotion because history reveals that the standard text of quran was not copied from the original and hence there is no 100% truth here, more so, since perfection is allah's only and there is no human perfection. So instead of going against the truth why not go as per the truth and follow the right tariqah for all times - the ismaili tariqah.

The quran verse :

O you, who believe, obey allah and obey the prophet and the holders of authority from amongst you.

makes things very clear - no abu baker, umar and usman but ALI, ALI AND ALI.

P.S.: Shamsu - if you do not want to send me the farmans KIZ1,2,3 duly verified and the kIM2 and khangi farmans, then, please let me know on the email id i gave you so that I do not remind you again. I am off the discussion list for the time being because if i continue my work will suffer a lot. However, i am looking forward for the aforesaid farmans and hope you do not dissappoint me.
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:26 pm    Post subject: RUMI Reply with quote


Lo, I am with you always, means when you look for God, God is in the look of your eyes,

in the thought of looking, nearer to you than your self, or things that have happened to you.

There's no need to go outside. wash yourself of yourself.
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad

I am sorry .I want to say to roxy not logical but by mistake I wrote logical

Roxy I agree with you .I dont knew this before.I have listened some waez of Babul missionary but I did not know about him. Roxy you wrote that Quran is not 100%copied from Orignal book.Is there a Farman about it.If there is then write it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 4:53 pm    Post subject: Maulana Roumi Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:21 pm    Post subject: Rumi Reply with quote

Ya Aly Madad star_munir,

The story I heard was that Shams Tabriz asked him to meet in khamosh galli. M. Rumi asked a lot of people but no one knew where khamosh galli was. He was quite perplexed and then some kids asked him what he was looking for? He said khamosh galli and they said it was the Kabrastan he was looking for.

There M. Rumi looked for Shams Tabriz but couldn't see him any where until he noted him at a structure that was like a tower (like kutub minar). When Mowlana Rumi reached there Shams Tabriz was on the top floor. He started walking up the steps and when he reached the top there was no one there. When he looked down Shams Tabriz was at ground level. So, he started walking down the steps and when he reached the bottom Shams Tabriz was again at the top. so he went up again. Now M. Rumi was quite old at the time and was soon exhausted as this kept happening again and again. When he reached the top for the last time he was ready to give up and decided to jump towards Shams Tabriz from the top of this tower. When he jumped with no concern for anything but to get to Shams Tabriz as quickly as possible is when Shams Tabriz caught him. He did not let him hit the ground.

There is a very Important and Extremely Deep meaning to this story for those who understand.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya ali madad everyone,

Jalaludin Roumi was born during the 13th century in Balkh, Khorosan ( mazar-e-sharif, Afghanistan today), his family was sunni and his father was a very known and respected mullah ( he had 400 students in Balkh). His popularity in Balkh made the King's life difficult ( The King worried about the mullah, he thought the mullah is going to take his popularity and steal his crown). The King send a man with all his keys, telling the mullah that one king in Balkh is sufficient. The mullah excused himself and left Balkh with his family ( jalaluding roumi was 7 years old at that time) for Mecca, visiting the Haj ( But he never went to Mecca, instead he went living with his family in Turkey). Roumi grew up there, and became a well known mullah like his father. One day a man disquised in FAKIR came to see him ( It was mawlana Shams). He told him something about the TRUE PATH and left. Jalaludin became confused and send some men to find the Fakir. The men found mawlana Shams and brought him back to Rumi. Rumi and mawlana Shams discussed in a room for 3 days and night without sleeping about wisdom, the truth, and knowledge. After these 3 days Rumi became ismaili and fell spiritually in love with Shams. Rumi had found the true path, but in the eyes of others he looked like a crazy man. His son took out a weapon and seeked to find mawlana Shams to kill him thinking that his father is crazy because of him ( however he never found him). Later mawlana Sultan muhammad shah said in one of his farmans that Jalaludin Rumi was one of those who reached ASSAL MAKAN. And someone who wants to reach assal makan should have a present living imam, in other words being ismaili.
Jalaluding Rumi told his life story in one of his books ( written in original persian-- with no English translation)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:16 pm    Post subject: Quran is not 100% copied from Original Quran; and others Reply with quote

Star_munir, Yes there is a farman of S.M.S that the Quran is not !00% copied from original.. See farman #20, page no.63 & 64 of Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin Part 1.

Another enquiry regarding farman for 313 momin, Please see farman #16 page no. 48 of KIM part 1.

Regarding Drinking, there are so many farmans, See farman #9 page no 28,29 and 30. Farman #7 page no24 &25. Farman #21 page no 65 of KIM Part 1

Ragarding sex before marriage, see farman # 21 page no 65 of KIM part 1.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand Mowlana Roomi was an Ismaili (Originally he was an orthodox Sunni Muslim). His murshid was Pir Shams Tabriz who was an Ismaili because he was a son of Imam Alaiddin Mohammed.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tabrez was Ismaili. Rumi was not an Ismaili, he was the pupil of an Ismaili therefore strongly influence by Ismaili ideas.



"Rumi was not an Ismaili himself, but the murid of an Ismaili"

Sultan Muhammad Shah, First Ismailia Mission Conference, Dar es-Salam 20 July 1945
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:48 pm    Post subject: St. Francis of Assisi Reply with quote

While Rumi is being discussed as a disciple of Shamsh Tabriz, it might be of interest to know that St. Francis of Assisi, the most beloved saint of the Western world, was in contact with Shamsh Tabriz during the phase of his life when he spent some time in Damascus.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Star_munir, Yes there is a farman of S.M.S that the Quran is not !00% copied from original.. See farman #20, page no.63 & 64 of Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin Part 1.

Another enquiry regarding farman for 313 momin, Please see farman #16 page no. 48 of KIM part 1.

Regarding Drinking, there are so many farmans, See farman #9 page no 28,29 and 30. Farman #7 page no24 &25. Farman #21 page no 65 of KIM Part 1

Ragarding sex before marriage, see farman # 21 page no 65 of KIM part 1.

hi. is the Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin on this website? If not, does anyone know where I can get a copy of it? Thanks!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just stumbled on to this web page by DOS worth reading....

Persian Poet Rumi Conquers America
Translator Coleman Barks travels to Rumi's homeland

By Steve Holgate
Washington File Special Correspondent

Washington – He is the most popular poet in the United States. Barely known here only a decade ago, classes on his work have sprouted up on university campuses throughout the country. Community lectures and public readings of his poetry are announced in the cultural sections of newspapers in virtually every major American city. In perhaps the ultimate measure of his celebrity, a group of movie stars and singers has made a recording of his poems.

read more>
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mowla made it clear “Rumi was not His Murid but Murid of His Murid (shams Tabriz)” we must also not forget Mowla is All Blessing….

I want to know more about Rumi and shams tabriz can anyone help me? My email is

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being the 800th anniversary of the birth of Rumi there is extensive coverage under:

You know you've touched a lot of lives when your 800th birthday is celebrated around the world. Sufi poet Mevlana Jellaluddin--best known as Rumi--is beloved by people of many faiths for his ecstatic, almost infatuated devotion to God. His eloquent longing seems to get at the very heart of love. Born September 30, 1207, the spiritual poet's global popularity has inspired the United Nations agency UNESCO to deem 2007 "The Year of Rumi."
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumi remembered
By Saeed Taji Farouky

Jalal ad-din Muhammad Rumi

13th-century mystic poet and theologian

Lived: 1207-1273

Born in Balkh, in modern Afghanistan, but spent most of his life in Anatolia

Major work: Masnavi-ye Manavi - six volumes of poems about man's search for God. The work is held in high regard by Sufi Muslims

Iran has celebrated the 800th birthday of Jalal ad-din Muhammad Rumi, the poet and spiritual leader famous across much of central and western Asia, with a week-long conference in the cities of Tehran, Khoy and Tabriz.

But scholars say that political pressures and the increasing commercialisation of Sufism, the mystical strand of Islam Rumi so heavily influenced, threaten to overshadow the poet's message of universal love and tolerance.

According to Persian tradition, Rumi is the insan-e kamil, or the perfected human being.

It is his belief in and struggle for unity - bringing together the created and the creator through music, dance and art - that has transcended all religions and elevated his works to international acclaim.

In Iran, Rumi is a household name. Many of his poems were written in Persian, and his poetry is so well respected it is recited on state radio during Ramadan.

The Iranian government also regularly hosts events where the poet is celebrated and promoted as a Persian icon.

But Nihat Tsolak, director and founder of Caravansary, a cultural group that organises Rumi-related events and festivals in London, is suspicious of the Islamic Republic's promotion of the anniversary this year.

"The Iranians seem to be using Rumi's celebrity for their own publicity," he told Al Jazeera.

Tsolak explains that beyond the literary celebrations, Iran has for the past several years maintained an uneasy relationship with Sufism.

Mohammad Reza Jozi, a research associate in philosophy and theology at London's Institute of Ismaili Studies, believes that there are divisions within the ruling clergy in Iran on how to deal with the Sufi minority.

He told Al Jazeera: "Part of the Iranian clergy opposes Sufism. Others support it, but they never say openly that they are Sufis."

Sufis in Iran

Iran's constitution permits the formation of "religious societies ... pertaining to one of the recognised religious minorities", on the condition they "do not violate ... the basis of the Islamic republic".

But Freedom House, an independent US-based organisation that tracks civil liberties around the globe, wrote in its 2007 report on Iran that "discrimination and harassment against Sufi Muslims has increased" following the election of Mahmud Ahmadinejad, Iran's president, in 2005.

Followers of Sufi groups have recently reported being fired from their jobs, enduring discrimination by state agencies and facing increased restrictions on their literature and worship.

In a high-profile case in October 2006, 300 state security forces surrounded the home of Nurali Tabandeh, a Sufi sheikh in Gonabad, northeastern Iran, prohibiting an annual Sufi pilgrimage to his house.

The Iranian embassy in London would not fully comment about the country's treatment of Sufis, but a diplomatic spokesperson there told Al Jazeera "everything is just ... allegations".

The Iranian Heritage Foundation - a non-political UK-based charity - also denied that Sufis are persecuted in Iran.

The Freedom House allegations "appear to be unfounded", it told Al Jazeera in a statement.

But Jozi believes that Rumi's universal approach to Islam interminably clashes with the more conservative state clergy in Iran, just as Rumi himself clashed with the religious establishment in 13th-century Turkey.

"Sufis claim that they know the reality, the truth, teachings of the Quran and the prophet... The position someone like Rumi holds is beyond official creed," he said.

Cultural icon

In Turkey, as in Iran, Rumi has become a ubiquitous and valuable cultural icon.

The whirling dervishes of the Mevlevi Sufi order, which is most closely associated with Rumi, and whose signature spinning ceremony was formalised by his son Sultan Veled, feature prominently in Turkish tourism campaigns.

However, all Sufi sects remain outlawed since Kamal Ataturk, the founding father of modern Turkey, implemented a strict secularisation programme in the 1920s.

Sufi groups were considered reactionary political groups for resisting the change.

Recently, the Turkish authorities have begun to tolerate - though unofficially - a resurgence in Sufism, and have virtually endorsed the Mevlevi order.

A spokesperson at the Turkish embassy in London told Al Jazeera: "The Mevlevis have not been legalised, there is no law saying the Mevlevi are free to function. It's just tolerance extended to them by the state, acceptance that they are not a reactionary force."

'Pop culture'

Nevertheless, Tsolak is concerned that the whirling dervishes have lost their true significance and pander to tourist curiosities.

"There are a lot of public relations behind it by the Turkish government ... [people] see whirling dervishes as a bit of a circus, there's a curiosity about it, but it doesn't really go further than that."

He worries that Rumi's current popularity is merely a fad and the superficial "pop culture" following he has attained is obscuring the poet's message.

Jozi agrees. "Rumi has become fashionable and this is a very unfortunate event. The more he becomes fashionable the more he is forgotten.

"If a great philosopher becomes popular, it means either his philosophy is superficial, or has become superficial," he said.

Iranian musician Shahram Nazeri, one of the world's leading performers of Rumi poetry, is also uncomfortable with the "pop culture" status accorded to the mystic poet's works.

When told that an Iranian rap group and heavy metal band - both claiming inspiration from Rumi -were involved in celebrations to commemorate Rumi's legacy in London on October 15, Nazeri told Al Jazeera: "There are people who may not have all the qualifications to actually execute a poem."

Nazeri, who was recently awarded the Legion d'Honneur, France's highest cultural accolade, for more than 30 years of work dedicated to the poet, believes careful schooling and training is required before tackling Rumi's works.

"To do justice to Rumi's lifetime contributions - these things cannot be taken so lightly."

Troubled region

Despite the poet's popularity in Europe and North America, Rumi's philosophies encouraging a unified humanity seem to have fallen on deaf ears in the region which birthed him.

Jozi believes that because Rumi always existed on the fringes and directly challenged the authorities of his day, his philosophy can hardly be expected to penetrate the political establishments in Central and Western Asia.

"Sufism as a social trend always existed on the margin of society - cut off from political turmoil and changes ... no Sufi saint ever influenced politics," he said.

Rumi was a very secluded man, he adds, with no interest in spreading his own universal philosophy. It was up to his followers to find the answers themselves.

Nazeri, too, cautions against turning to the poet for answers to socio-political woes, points out that it takes great effort to turn philosophy into reality.

He told Al Jazeera: "His thoughts would definitely have an impact on the struggle for peace. What it needs is work. It needs to be presented in a way that can get across to the masses.

"There are still parts of him that are too early to digest, in so many ways."

Banned by the Taliban

In Afghanistan, unlike Iran and Turkey, Rumi's poetry has fallen prey to ethnic and political divisions.

Dr Nooralhaq Nasimi, head of London's Afghan Community Organisation, told Al Jazeera that while Rumi was well known among Farsi and Dari speakers in Afghanistan, his work was frowned upon by the country's Pashtu-speaking leaders, which included the Taliban.

Pashtun tribes have effectively ruled Afghanistan for the past 250 years and have discouraged scholarly research into Rumi's philosophies.

"No significant book about Rumi has been written by Afghan scholars," Jozi told Al Jazeera.

Rumi's popularity also suffered under the Taliban government, which banned music, concerts and recitals through which much of Rumi's work is usually disseminated.

The ban directly challenged Rumi's belief that music, poetry and dancing can be used as a means of spiritual and physical worship of God's divinity.

As a result, Rumi's legacy in Afghanistan has been restricted to the oral tradition, rather than the stuff of academia, literature or music.

"Most of [Rumi's] poems are being kept in the heart of the people," Nasimi says.

Source: Al Jazeera
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cinema: Islamic poet to be celebrated in new film

Rome, 24 Oct. (AKI) - Rumi, the famous 13th century Islamic poet and mystic, will be featured in a new 25 million dollar film production to be produced in a joint venture between Italy and the United Arab Emirates.

It's one of the major deals to have emerged in 'The Business Street', the space set aside for international film producers and others at this year's Rome Film Festival.

In the last few years, several proposals have been considered for a movie about the life of the much beloved Sufi poet, who is well known in Europe and the US. More than 800 years after his death, his Persian poetry remains popular from Turkey to India.

Now a new Italian company, Istar Production, has reached an agreement with Dubai's D-Seven Motion Pictures to make the film.

The choice of the Dubai company is part of a strategy which aims to make the Emirates a hot new location for movie production in the Persian Gulf, offering capital and infrastructure for international filmmakers.

D-Seven Motion Pictures is headed by Nayla al Khaja, UAE's first independent female film director and producer.

Muzaffar Ali, a famous Indian filmmaker will direct the film. Igor Uboldi from Istar said the choice of an Indian director was appropriate because it was one of the countries where the 'cult' of Rumi survived. It also coincided with the Rome Film Festival's focus on Indian movies this year.

The film project appears to be connected with UNESCO's Rumi Year, declared to commemorate the poet's 800th birthday.

The film has been presented to Turkish institutions with a view to shooting in Turkey and has received formal support from UNESCO.

"It will be an international production to tell the story of a poet that after 8 centuries still inspires us," said Uboldi.

"At a time when Islam is at the centre of turmoil and misconceptions, Rumi opens the doors of a world where Islam always means love, never hatred".


PS: Here's an excerpt about Muzaffir Ali .....

From 2001 he initiated an annual international Sufi Music Festival, Jahan e Khusaru, in Delhi, dedicated to the 13th century mystic poet Hazrat Amir Khusrau. In this festival singers and musicians from different parts of the world and India participate creating a new genre of world Sufi music. In 2004 he created a Rumi Foundation with a vision to promote Global Oneness, bridging the east west divide.

Muzaffar has a vision to reinvent film making out of India, to create a global cinema of peace and to bring finest of world talent together to realize his dream. For this reason he has chosen the subject after his heart, the life and message of Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi, the 13th century mystic poet who is the largest read poet in the west. He is working on an international feature film, Rumi, the Fire of Love, which will be a collaborative effort with the worlds most acknowledged technicians like Director of Cinematography - Vittorio Storaro, Production Designer - Eugenio Zanetti, Costume Designer - Mary McFadden and subject, script and communication consultants and experts Kabir Helminski, Shama Zaidi and Dr. Deepak Chopra. The film should be ready for release in 2008, in time for 800 years of Rumi’s birth anniversary. The film designed for spiritual seekers will have the most expansive and extensive market around the world. With a passion for spiritual music and poetry along with a visual eye as his forte, the film is bound to have a lasting impact on viewers.


For those interested in reading more about Muzaffir Ali, here's the link to his website
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To find out about life and work of Rumi visit

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Sufism may be powerful antidote to Islamic extremism"

by Jane Lampman ("Christian Science Monitor," December 5, 2007)

Washington, USA - Images of Islam have pervaded the news media in recent years, but one aspect of the faith has gotten little attention - Islamic spirituality. Yet thousands in America and millions in the Muslim world have embarked on the spiritual path called Sufism, or the Sufi way. Some see its appeal as the most promising hope for countering the rise of
extremism in Islam.

In recent weeks, celebrations in cities on several continents have marked the "International Year of Rumi." Sept. 30 was the 800th anniversary of the birth of Muslim mystic Jelaluddin Rumi, who is a towering figure in Sufi literature and, paradoxically, the bestselling poet in the United States over the past decade.

In the West, Sufism has appealed to seekers attracted by its disciplined
spiritual practices as well as its respect for all faiths and emphasis
on universal love.

"I was searching, and the writings struck me - particularly the poetry,"
says Llew Smith, a TV producer in Boston who has joined a Sufi order.
"It's direct and consistent about turning you away from the self, but
also being connected deeply to the Divine and to other people."

Across the Muslim world, Sufism has been an influential force throughout
Islamic history, though it has frequently come under attack by more
orthodox Muslims. Some consider it an Islamic heresy because Sufis go
beyond the faith's basic tenets and pursue a direct union with God.

Many Muslims today, however, see the spiritual tradition as the potential answer to the extremism that has hijacked the faith and misrepresented it to the world.

"In the Islamic world, Sufism is the most powerful antidote to the
religious radicalism called fundamentalism as well as the most important
source for responding to the challenges posed by modernism," says Seyyed Hossein Nasr, professor of Islamic studies at George Washington
University in Washington, D.C.

Dr. Nasr has written a new book, "The Garden of Truth," to present Sufi
teaching in contemporary language.

"Its influence is immense," Nasr adds. "Sufism has kept alive the inner
quality of ethics and spiritual virtues, rather than a rigid morality
... and it provides access to knowledge of the divine reality," which
affects all other aspects of one's life.

But Sufi practice faces intense pressures in Islam's internal struggle.
"What the Western world is not seeing," says Akbar Ahmed, a renowned
Pakistani anthropologist who teaches at American University in
Washington, "is that there are three distinct models in play in the
Muslim world: modernism, which reflects globalization, materialism, and
a consumer society; the literalists, who are reacting, sometimes
violently, against the West and globalization; and the Sufis, who reject
the search for power and wealth" in favor of a more spiritual path.

Feeling under siege, the average Muslim today is in turmoil, Dr. Ahmed says. To which of these answers will he or she turn? He believes that the spiritual hunger is deep and resonates widely.

Puritanical reformers revile it

While Sufism has been persecuted in Saudi Arabia, it is thriving in such
places as Iran, Pakistan, and India outside the modernist cities, says
Ahmed, who traveled throughout the Muslim world in 2006. During a visit
to the Sufi shrine at Ajmer, India, he encountered a throng of thousands
worshiping there.

"Just last week, when former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif returned to
Pakistan, where did he go? To the Sufi shrine in Lahore," he adds.

But can Sufism influence or counter the political rise of the radicals?
Puritanical reformers call Sufis heretics. And modernizers have often
denigrated them. Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern secular Turkey,
for instance, closed down the Sufi orders, including Rumi's Mevlevi

Yet, according to a survey Ahmed took of some young people in Turkey
last year, their top choice as a role model is a Sufi intellectual,
Fetullah Gulen, who has built a large system of schools and is known for
his promotion of interfaith dialogue.

Sufis lead reform movements

Historically, Sufism has had greater impact in the Muslim world than
have Jewish and Christian mysticism in their communities, says Marcia
Hermansen, an expert on Sufism at Loyola University in Chicago.

Not only has it pervaded Islamic art, literature, music, and
architecture, but in the realm of political life, several Sufi orders
became ruling dynasties, reshaping the map of the Muslim world.

"Some of the greatest reform movements in the 19th century were carried
out by Sufis," says Nasr. "Amir Abd al-Kader, the national hero of Algeria, was a Sufi master."

No reliable statistics exist for numbers of Sufis practicing today, as
both Sunni and Shiite Muslims may also be Sufis. But many Sufi orders,
in which serious students follow a master teacher, have become
international in scope. (In the US, Sufi movements vary considerably,
and a few have taken on New Age elements and are not directly related to

Llew Smith joined the Nimatullahi Order, which has 10 houses of Sufism
in the US, but whose teacher - Dr. Javad Nubakhsh - resides in London.
Muhammad Nooraee, one of his students, came to the US from Iran 30 years ago and now acts as a spiritual counselor in the house in Boston's South End neighborhood. The local group gathers for meditation twice a week, which sometimes involves music or poetry.

The only requirement for an initiate is that he be a sincere seeker, to "feel thirsty for God," he says during an interview. "In Sufism, we call
it 'pain of seeking.' "

The initiate makes the confession of faith to Islam, "submitting your
heart to God," but no other rules are required. "The seeker now becomes
a disciple, and the teacher walks him or her through the path, what we
call tariqah," Mr. Nooraee says. It is a path toward the truth through
love, and involves techniques to get close to God.

"One technique involves how to meditate," he says, "focusing attentively
on the names of God and negating your ego; the second is service, how to
provide selfless service for others without any expectation of return.
Once the disciple does both, then he or she starts to experience God.
From then on, you see God with the inner eyes of the heart."

Contemplative dimension

Mr. Smith came to this order because he was moved by one of Dr.
Nubakhsh's books, and has stayed with it for 20 years. Growing up in a
very religious African-American family, he says he might have stayed
with Christianity had he found such a deep contemplative dimension that
enabled him to work with a teacher. He has visited and corresponds with
the master. Meditating with the group in Boston, he finds "a lot of
energy of support for the interior spiritual work we are striving to

Of course, the real work begins when you go out into the world and live
it, and fail, and have to correct yourself, he says, with a laugh. But
it has changed his life.

"It's made me recognize how much of a veil the ego is, and how important
it is to set it aside," says the TV producer. "And when I get panicked
about the world, it has helped me find greater faith in humanity as a
manifestation of God."

A brief look at what Sufism teaches

In a new book, "The Garden of Truth," Seyyed Hossein Nasr presents the
teachings of Sufism in contemporary language, drawing on his experience
of more than 50 years of practice. The Sufi tradition, he says, contains
"a vast metaphysical and cosmological set of doctrines elaborated over a
long period...." Sufi metaphysics teach the Unity of God and the oneness
of being.

Some excerpts:

"Not only were we created by God, but we have the root of our existence
here and now in Him."

"In classical Sufism, the answer to the question what does it mean to be
human is contained fully in the doctrine of what is usually translated
as the Universal or Perfect Man ... [who] is like a mirror before God,
reflecting all His Names and Qualities, and is able to contemplate ...
God's creation through God's eyes."

Creation is renewed at every instant, according to Sufism's teaching,
and "the whole of the material universe, no matter how extended its
physical dimensions might be, is like a speck of dust before the
grandeur of the world of the Spirit."
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mowlavi's life in Persian Paradise
Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:34:17

Iran's Press TV is to screen 'Persian Paradise' on Mowlavi
Press TV will screen the Persian Paradise, a 4-episode documentary, which focuses on the life of Iranian poet and mystic, Mowlavi.

The documentary will be aired on the occasion of the 800th birth anniversary of Mowlavi.

“Two episodes of the series are dedicated to Mowlavi and his influence on contemporary Western culture and art as well as his influence on prominent Western figures,” Farshad Fereshteh Hekmat, director of the Persian Paradise told Press TV.

“The other two will focus on Mowlavi and Shams Tabrizi, the poet's spiritual guide,” he added.

Hekmat said the claims that Mowlavi was a Turkish poet are completely baseless and the documentary will explore his life and work as an Iranian poet and mystic.

The English language documentary has been shot in Iran, Turkey, India and Europe.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Question about Sham-z-Tabiz Reply with quote

From_Alamut wrote:
Ya Ali Madad

I have had an argument with some of our Ismaili brothers in Jamatkhana about Shame-z-tabiz. They say that Sham-e-tabiz was not an Ismaili but he was only a Sufi Master and at the same time there was 3 shams(Pir Shams, Mowlana Imam Shamudain Mohammad(s.a) and Sham-z-tabiz). I said he was an Ismaili, but they disagree with me. They said if Shame-z-tabiz was an Ismaili then where is the PROVE, did his name mention in any Ismaili books, history Ismaili or Ganan? They also said if he was an Ismaili then why Rumi is not an Ismaili. He could have converted a lot of people into Ismailism faith if he was an Ismaili. icon_sad.gif
...Now, I need you guys help brothers and sisters. Please if you guys think that Sham-z-tabiz was an Ismaili SHOW ME THE COMPELET PROVE. PROVE TO ME HOW SHAM-Z-TABIZ WAS AN ISMAILI SO I can argue back.


I think this posting will help u..........

nagib wrote:
Tabrez was Ismaili. Rumi was not an Ismaili, he was the pupil of an Ismaili therefore strongly influence by Ismaili ideas.



"Rumi was not an Ismaili himself, but the murid of an Ismaili"

Sultan Muhammad Shah, First Ismailia Mission Conference, Dar es-Salam 20 July 1945


Last edited by zubair_mahamood on Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumi, the movie

I fear that a film being made in Qatar about the Islamic mystic may gloss over some of the more interesting aspects of his life

Ali Eteraz, Sunday 16 August 2009

At this year's Cannes film festival it was revealed that the Qatar Foundation had pledged $25m for the production for a biopic of Rumi, the Muslim mystic and poet, who is perhaps the leading figure in Sufism and one of Islam's most important cultural ambassadors to the western world.

In 2002, Time magazine pointed out that "easily the most successful poetry book published in the west in the past decade" belonged to Rumi (his verses have even been recited by Madonna). Rumi's cultural influence goes beyond poetry, however. The famous "whirling dervishes" trace themselves back to the poet and he has even inspired Iranian ballet as well as a recent symphony project.

Rumi was born in central Asia at the beginning of the 13th century, during the time of the Mongol invasions. After starting out as a jurist and academic, his life was radically altered through an encounter with a travelling sage by the name of Shams al-Din Tabrizi, who imparted esoteric secrets to him. After an intense relationship between the two men, Shams disappeared, and in his grief Rumi became devoted to the Divine Beloved, producing exquisite works of moral wisdom until the end of his life a few decades later. Rumi's masterpiece, called the Masnavi, has been celebrated throughout the Muslim world and is sometimes referred to as the Persian Qur'an.

The film project is the brainchild of the Indian film-maker Muzaffar Ali, who directed the critically acclaimed film Umrao Jan (about a Muslim courtesan's search for love in the 19th century). He has also released a plethora of Sufi music by artists such as Abida Parveen.

For the film, Ali has teamed up with Oscar-winning screenwriter and director David Ward (Sleepless in Seattle) as well as the cinematographer Vittorio Storaro (Apocalypse Now) while new age guru Deepak Chopra has been brought in as script consultant.

It bears noting that until recently the Rumi project was faltering, as its previous sponsors in the United Arab Emirates decided to back out. The film was ultimately rescued by the Qatar Foundation, which is headed by the wife of the emir of Qatar, Sheikha Mohza.

The project raises some interesting questions. First, how will certain Muslim countries, and particularly the more puritanical religious elements, react to the movie? Will there be calls to ban or boycott the film, or will Qatar – home of Arab mainstays such as Qaradawi and al-Jazeera – have enough pull to quell such criticism?

Second, will western thinktanks, in their quest to appropriate all the creative elements of Islam to advance their own pet wars, turn into the film's cheerleaders and ensure that it becomes a flop?

Third is the issue of Rumi's duality. There have always been two versions of him: the universal Rumi (a sort of munificent and non-judgmental sage who transcends time, place and religion) and the historical Rumi who affirmed Islam to the exclusion of other religions. This tension, about how religions reconcile historical reality with liberal sentimentality, exists in today's Judaic and Christian art, but is most pronounced in Islam.

My sense is that this film, due to its corporate considerations, will gloss over the historical Rumi. That is a shame, because there is plenty in his actual historical life that would be of interest to the world today.

For example, Dr Hussein Rashid of Harvard University pointed out to me that Rumi's teacher, Shams al-Din, was probably an Ismaili. That one of the most revered individuals in Islam may have been influenced by someone from Islam's (ultra) minority sect is precisely the kind of stuff that the film should tease out, even if it does so with a nudge and a wink.

Also, Rumi was married to a woman named Gawhar Khatun, yet when anyone talks about his life, she gets no mention. That unwillingness to talk about Rumi's marital life is part of the reason many people tend to sexualise his relationship with Shams. Why not cast a strong female lead as Gawhar and really shake things up?

The other element of historical Rumi that will unfortunately be ignored is the way he used erotic ideas in his discussions about the sacred. This has been written about in detail by Dr Mahdi Tourage in an article entitled The Hermeneutics of Eroticism in the Poetry of Rumi. One example Tourage gives is of the way Rumi played on the words denoting the religious act of zikr, or remembrance, and the word zakr, which means penis. Rumi was also not averse to talking about hermaphrodites, menstruation and intercourse. Such anecdotes illustrate that Muslims in those days had a far greater tolerance of literary licence in religious discussions than they do now.

Finally, I think one of the most interesting things about Rumi's actual life was the impact that the Mongol invasion had on him. Rumi lived at a time when the Muslim world was being overrun by a war machine and the decadent rulers were unable to offer protection to their subjects. Men like Ibn Taymiya, who later inspired modern jihadists, were agitating for revolt and using Islamic scholarship in the service of vengeance. How a great Muslim figure like Rumi reacted to the violence of invasion would have significant meaning today.

Even if it falls short, though, having a mainstream film about Rumi produced by a brand new studio in the heart of the Muslim world is positive in itself.
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