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Imam and Imamat
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mahebubchatur



Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the authority of H H the Aga Khan, the Imam of Isnaili Muslims, where does it come from, and how is it excercised. New article
Link http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=9224
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swamidada



Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mahebubchatur wrote:
What is the authority of H H the Aga Khan, the Imam of Isnaili Muslims, where does it come from, and how is it excercised. New article
Link http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=9224



I agree with the following 3 paragraphs written by Mahebub Chatur on the topic of Imamat. It is true Imam is Noor of Allah, Mazhar of Allah, Hujjat of Allah, he is true guide, he is intercessor, he is trustee, he is door to Allah (Baabullah), he is shaheed (witness), that's why he is called 'Ainullah.

"Authority is a right which comes from a position of leadership. Leadership is much more that giving orders and enforcing them. The Aga Khan is first and foremost a religious Leader, an Imam , guiding over 15 million Ismaili Muslims worldwide. This guidance is called Farmans . His authority and position are derived from the Quran, which has come from Allah (God), through Prophet Mohammed. The first Ismaili Imam, was appointed by Prophet Mohammed with authority to continue the interpretation, and teaching of the Quran. This is a divinely ordained mandate, to light the way for all those who seek, called believers or murids. To the Imam they are all his beloved spiritual children".

"Imam is therefore an inheritor, intercessor & trustee, to continue the interpretations (Tawil), and teaching (Talim), of the Qur’an. This has been explained by the Imam, in the Ismaili constitution, and in many Farmans.

"There is a difference between Divinity and Divine or divinely ordained authority. IMAMS DO NOT CLAIM DIVINITY. PROPHET MUHAMMAD NEVER CLAIMED DIVINITY. According to Ismaili Muslims, Prophet Mohammed passed on authority, by appointing Imam Ali, as the inheritor and a successor. Imam’s guidance is for all who seek, and submit to his guidance".
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swamidada wrote:
I agree with the following 3 paragraphs written by Mahebub Chatur on the topic of Imamat.


Imam means many things to many people but as Imam himself has said, he is Pir to the one who consider him as Pir, he is a friend to one who consider him a friend etc.. All this has been discussed in the Imamat thread as well as in the Ali Allah thread.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the article of Mumtaz Ali Tajddin published in 2000 - "Divine Light of Ali - In all Imams"

“You should be rest assured that the Light (noor) of Murtza Ali is in me, present and apparent before you. We put on the (bodily) dress (jama) and put off in the world, but our One Light (noor) is descended since eternity, therefore, you must see One Light (in different bodies). There was One Light (noor) of Ali in Aga Ali Shah and my grandfather, even in their forefathers, and that very Light (noor) is descended in me. I am their heir apparent. The Light (noor) is present and apparent all the times, only the names are different. The Throne (gadi) of Mawla Murtza Ali is present and will remain till the Judgment Day. You jamat have no reason to deject in any way. I am present before you. There is no difference between me and them (only) the bodies have to change, therefore, the true believers must comprehend the foregoing point.” (Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah (Bombay, 8th September, 1885)
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swamidada



Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah became Imam on August 17, 1885 on Monday at age of 8 years. Two weeks after coronation, Imam gave Dedaar to Indian jamaits in Mumbai darkhana and made the following Farman on September 1, 1885. It is a lengthy Farman but I shall quote the portions of Farman related to subject of Imam and Noor e Imamat.

MSMS said," Jamaits, do not consider me small, I am the decendant of Prophet and my grand father is Hazrat Amirul Mu'mineen and my grand mother is Khatoon e Janat Hazrat Bibi Fatimah. I am the Noor of both Hazrat Ali and the Holy Prophet Muhammad. Though young in age I am exalted.

Hazrat Imam Zainul Abideen was also young in age, but had the same power and learning as Murtaza Ali. My Noor continues on from there and verily Noor of Ali ever remains in the world.

Apparently we have adopted DARVESHI but have got reverence from the court of Khudavand Ta'allah because we are Ahl e Bait, progeny of the Prophet.

You should differentiate between Truth and false, Insha Allah those who recognize us are like precious valuable jewels, follow the course of honesty and truthfulness (to recognize Imam of time).
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 21491

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manifestation and Concealment: Revival and Survival in Ismailism
Daryoush Mohammad Poor
D. Mohammad Poor

Ismailism begins its history, almost immediately with the experience of concealment (satr), which was interconnected with the inaccessibility of Ismaili Imams beginning with Muḥammad b. Ismāʿīl b. Jaʿfar al-Ṣādiq , who came to be known as Muḥammad al-Maktūm (the hidden). This period of concealment is also marked by the belief of early Ismailis in Muḥammad b. Ismāʿīl being the seventh enunciator and the qāʾim. This period comes to an end when the Fatimids rise to power and ʿAbd Allāh al-Mahdī (ʿUbayd Allāh, in non-Ismaili sources) (d. 322/934) establishes the Fatimid dynasty in North Africa as the first Fatimid Imam-Caliph. The notion of qāʾim is also, as a consequence, revised to accommodate the shift from the early doctrine of messianic beliefs to one that can incorporate the founding of an Ismaili state.

The Nizārī-Mustaʿlian split at the time of al-Mustanṣir (d. 487/1094), the eight Fatimid caliph, marks the beginning of another period of concealment with the same implication of the physical inaccessibility of the Imam, which lasts from the death of Nizār (d. 488/1095) until the death of Muḥammad b. Buzurg Umīd (d. 557/1162), the third ruler of Alamut, when his successor Ḥasan II (d. 561/1166) claims decent from Nizār but also claims shortly after to be the qāʾim. It is here that concealment and manifestation transmute fully into a doctrine which specifically deals with the religious law (sharīʿat) and its esoteric meaning (qiyāmat). While in earlier periods (and even later on) concealment often related to the physical accessibility of the Imam (not occultation unlike the Imamī tradition), this time concealment specifically referred to the period of the domination of religious laws and rituals. Manifestation, or be more precise the cycle of manifestation, referred to the era when under certain conditions, religious laws would be lifted.

The multiple meanings of satr and kashf, all of which were interconnected with how the doctrine of imamate was understood by Ismailis of different periods, reflect the dynamics of how authority was articulated and exercised in the Ismaili community. This paper will address how these multiple meanings are often invoked, interpreted and reinterpreted to accommodate socio-political and doctrinal changes in the Ismaili community. The paper will draw on the works of Sijistānī, Qāḍī al-Nuʿmān, Nāṣir-i Khusraw and Naṣīr al-Dīn al-Ṭūsī and a few unpublished fragments of manuscripts from the Alamut period of Ismaili history.

Location: Denver, MESA 2015
Event Date: Nov 23, 2015
Conference End Date: Nov 25, 2015
Conference Start Date: Nov 21, 2015

The entire paper can be accessed at:

https://www.academia.edu/19903957/Manifestation_and_Concealment_Revival_and_Survival_in_Ismailism?email_work_card=view-paper
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mahebubchatur



Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:29 am    Post subject: Imam's mission is on 3 levels Reply with quote

The Imam must direct Ismailis on the practice of their religion and constantly interpret the Qur’an for them according to our theology. On the spiritual plane, the Imam’s authority is absolute. Ismaili Muslims believe therefore that what the Imam says is the true interpretation (of the Quran) possible.

Mawlana Hazar Imam
L’Expansion Interview, Roger Priouret (Paris, France), March 1975

You see, my mission is situated on three levels. Firstly, religious: it concerns a symbolic exegesis of the Qur’an: interpreting the Divine Word, the adapting the needs of each community to the time; refashioning the law, constantly and relentlessly. Wherever one finds an Ismaili community, there exists a commission of theologians that engages in this research. But nothing is decided without me…. Our religion is esoteric, you understand. It is a perpetual initiation.

Mawlana Hazar Imam (Translation)

Jeune Afrique Interview (1st), Anne Loesch (Paris, France), 15 October 1967
ismailignosis.com/2018/04/02/how-the-ismaili-imam-teaches-the-esoteric-interpretation-tawil-of-the-holy-quran/

-------------

Note from Admin: This interview in its original format is already since 1993 on http://www.ismaili.net/intervue/i671015.html
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mahebubchatur



Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:33 am    Post subject: Authority and Role of Imam of Ismaili Muslims Reply with quote

link http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=9224
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful chart of the genealogy of Mowlana Shah Karim Aga Khan IV in direct descent of Hazrat Ali with the line of Imams.

The chart contains dates for each Imam. Please note that I have not verified the date. The chart is desgned by Pyarali Jiwa. It is a handy tool to go through Ismaili Imam's historical dates.

The larger version is on this link:

http://ismaili.net/source/charts/imamat-chart.pdf

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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 21491

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rehmat Ni Varsha - A Shower of Blessings (With Lyrics & Translations

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSDCKHPCNbQ&feature=youtu.be
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is narrated through Ammar-e Yasir, Jabir bin Abdullah, Malik-e Ashtar and Miqdad Aswad al Kindi (r.a), that when Imam Ali [a.s] was proceeding towards Shaam [for the battle at Siffin], he stopped and turned his horse away from the direction of Shaam and looked around for quite some time and then proceeded in one direction [away from Shaam]. His companions were astonished at this and asked him the reason for the change of direction.
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "I see what you are unable to see, for the hidden [Ghaib] is screened from your eyes. There is a monastry in this forest in which a Christian Monk is waiting with the sword tied around his waist and is ready to blow the trumpet. I want to break his sword and shatter his trumpet to pieces. If you are with me then follow me".
He, along with his companions then proceeded to the place where they found the monastry and the hermit. The hermit was attracted by the luminiscent face of Imam Ali [a.s] surrounded by his companions.
The herimt asked: "O, You Fair Gentleman where are you coming from?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied : "I am coming from Madina and we are proceeding to fight a battle at Shaam"
The personality of Imam Ali [a.s] so impressed the hermit that his heart was illumined with faith.
The hermit asked: "O, you, Young man with the effulgent face are you an angel or a human being?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "I am a human being and a Guide to the jinns and leader of the angles"
The hermit said: "In the Bible I have read the name as Taab Taab. O you the Effulgent One, Is that your name?".
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "Taab Taab is the name of Muhammad the Chosen One [Mustafa] [s.a.w] My name is Santiyya".
The hermit asked: "Is your name mentioned as Meet Meet in the Torah?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "Meet Meet is the name of Muhammad the Chosen One [Mustafa] [s.a.w] and my name is Aeliya"
The hermit asked : "Are you the Messiah who has descended from the skies to alliviate the melancholy and sorrow of the denizens of the earth?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "No. I am not Jesus, but Jesus is one of those who adore me"
The hermit asked: "Are you Moses come down with his staff to show his miracles to mankind?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "Iam not Moses but Moses is one of those who loves me"
The hermit said: "For God's sake tell me your name and your descent [geneology]"
Imam Ali [s] replied: "In every country and community I bear different names. The Arabs call me Hal `Ata and search for me in this title. The people of Tayif call me Tahmeed. Among the Meccans I am known as Babul Balad. The denizens of the skies write my name as Ahad. The Turks call me Balya and the Zangis call me Majeelan. And the Hindus call me Kishen Kishen. The Firangis call me Hami Isa. And the people of Khataya call me Bolya. I am reknowned in Iraq as Ameerun Nahl. In Khurasan I am knoewwn as Haider. In the first firmament I am known as Abdul Hameed. In the second fiermament I am known as Abdul Samad. In the third firmament I am known as Abdul Majeed. In the fourth firmamwnt I am known as Zul `Ulaa. In the fifth firmament my nanmew is Ali al `Aalaa. The Glorious Lord has made me sit upon theThrone of Authority [Musnad-e-Imaarat] and designated me as Ameerul Mominin. The Chief of the two worlds [Khwaja-e-Do-Saraa] Muhammade Mustafa [s.a.w] named me Abu Turaab. My father gave Abul Hasan as my agnomen and my mother gave the agnomen Abul `Ashar"
Reference from Book-:

('Kaukab-e-Durri',page.no 364-365)
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swamidada



Joined: 02 Aug 2020
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
It is narrated through Ammar-e Yasir, Jabir bin Abdullah, Malik-e Ashtar and Miqdad Aswad al Kindi (r.a), that when Imam Ali [a.s] was proceeding towards Shaam [for the battle at Siffin], he stopped and turned his horse away from the direction of Shaam and looked around for quite some time and then proceeded in one direction [away from Shaam]. His companions were astonished at this and asked him the reason for the change of direction.
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "I see what you are unable to see, for the hidden [Ghaib] is screened from your eyes. There is a monastry in this forest in which a Christian Monk is waiting with the sword tied around his waist and is ready to blow the trumpet. I want to break his sword and shatter his trumpet to pieces. If you are with me then follow me".
He, along with his companions then proceeded to the place where they found the monastry and the hermit. The hermit was attracted by the luminiscent face of Imam Ali [a.s] surrounded by his companions.
The herimt asked: "O, You Fair Gentleman where are you coming from?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied : "I am coming from Madina and we are proceeding to fight a battle at Shaam"
The personality of Imam Ali [a.s] so impressed the hermit that his heart was illumined with faith.
The hermit asked: "O, you, Young man with the effulgent face are you an angel or a human being?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "I am a human being and a Guide to the jinns and leader of the angles"
The hermit said: "In the Bible I have read the name as Taab Taab. O you the Effulgent One, Is that your name?".
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "Taab Taab is the name of Muhammad the Chosen One [Mustafa] [s.a.w] My name is Santiyya".
The hermit asked: "Is your name mentioned as Meet Meet in the Torah?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "Meet Meet is the name of Muhammad the Chosen One [Mustafa] [s.a.w] and my name is Aeliya"
The hermit asked : "Are you the Messiah who has descended from the skies to alliviate the melancholy and sorrow of the denizens of the earth?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "No. I am not Jesus, but Jesus is one of those who adore me"
The hermit asked: "Are you Moses come down with his staff to show his miracles to mankind?"
Imam Ali [a.s] replied: "Iam not Moses but Moses is one of those who loves me"
The hermit said: "For God's sake tell me your name and your descent [geneology]"
Imam Ali [s] replied: "In every country and community I bear different names. The Arabs call me Hal `Ata and search for me in this title. The people of Tayif call me Tahmeed. Among the Meccans I am known as Babul Balad. The denizens of the skies write my name as Ahad. The Turks call me Balya and the Zangis call me Majeelan. And the Hindus call me Kishen Kishen. The Firangis call me Hami Isa. And the people of Khataya call me Bolya. I am reknowned in Iraq as Ameerun Nahl. In Khurasan I am knoewwn as Haider. In the first firmament I am known as Abdul Hameed. In the second fiermament I am known as Abdul Samad. In the third firmament I am known as Abdul Majeed. In the fourth firmamwnt I am known as Zul `Ulaa. In the fifth firmament my nanmew is Ali al `Aalaa. The Glorious Lord has made me sit upon theThrone of Authority [Musnad-e-Imaarat] and designated me as Ameerul Mominin. The Chief of the two worlds [Khwaja-e-Do-Saraa] Muhammade Mustafa [s.a.w] named me Abu Turaab. My father gave Abul Hasan as my agnomen and my mother gave the agnomen Abul `Ashar"
Reference from Book-:

('Kaukab-e-Durri',page.no 364-365)


I own a copy of the famous book KAUKAB DURRI, no where on pages 364/365 the story you mentioned is narrated. Please double check your source.
In the following passage, you wrote," In the first firmament I am known as Abdul Hameed. In the second fiermament I am known as Abdul Samad. In the third firmament I am known as Abdul Majeed. In the fourth firmamwnt I am known as Zul `Ulaa. In the fifth firmament my nanmew is Ali al `Aalaa. The Glorious Lord has made me sit upon theThrone of Authority [Musnad-e-Imaarat] and designated me as Ameerul Mominin. The Chief of the two worlds [Khwaja-e-Do-Saraa] Muhammade Mustafa [s.a.w] named me Abu Turaab. My father gave Abul Hasan as my agnomen and my mother gave the agnomen Abul `Ashar"
Reference from Book-: ('Kaukab-e-Durri',page.no 364-365)
You have mentioned names 'Abdul Hameed, Abdul Samad, Abdul Majeed',
Abd means slave, ghullam, servant which goes against your ideology!!
The name Hyder was given by Bibi Fatimah.
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's copied from The.ismaili missionary FB page and I also have PDF of this book in Urdu in which this anecdote is mentioned on page 364. After reading this anecdote on FB, I verified it with the book I have before posting it here.

Secondly, my ideology is based on the Farmans of Hazir Imam and Ginans of Pirs.
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ismaili103



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kokab e Durri

Page 364-365



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Admin



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
It's copied from The.ismaili missionary FB page and I also have PDF of this book in Urdu in which this anecdote is mentioned on page 364. After reading this anecdote on FB, I verified it with the book I have before posting it here.

Secondly, my ideology is based on the Farmans of Hazir Imam and Ginans of Pirs.


I would suggest that you ignore the postings of Swamidada, his all aim is to create doubt in the minds of ismailis about the legitimacy of our faith and our documents.

I remember when I gave the reference of Gibbon's book on Mowlana Hakim's declaration that Mowlana Hakim was the Tenth manifestation of God on earth, he questioned my reference and I had to waste precious time going through boxes to find the book and scan a copy of the page to post for all to see that he was making ridiculous counter claims. I can see that he is doing the same with you. Just ignore him.

Thank you again for bringing this important text to the attention of all those who seek and search for the path to the truth.
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swamidada



Joined: 02 Aug 2020
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOH ALI JO:

Woh Ali jo Mowla e Kainaat hai.
Woh Ali jo Mazharul 'ajaaib hai.
Woh Ali jo Saheb e Mu'jizaat hai.
Woh Ali jo madinatul ilm hai.
Woh Ali jo Sirat e Mustaqeem hai.
Woh Ali jo amr e 'aalameen hai.
Woh Ali jo mufakar e Quran hai.
Woh Ali jo 'aalam e ilm e luduni hai.
Woh Ali jo Hadi e khalq hai.
Woh Ali jo la fata hai.
Woh Ali jo Saheb e Zulfiqar hai.
Woh Ali jo kalimatu Rahman hai.
Woh Ali jo kaleed Saheb e Hikmat hai.
Woh Ali jo Saheb e suluni hai.
Woh Ali jo Basheer wa Nazeer hai.
Woh Ali jo Imam e Awwal hai.
Woh Ali jo Amirul mu'mineen hai.
Woh Ali jo quwwat e Paigamber hai.
Woh Ali jo nafs e Rasul hai.
Woh Ali jo faateh Badar, Khaibar,khandaq wa hunnain hai.
Woh Ali jo jahnasheen Ahmad e Mursal hai.
Woh Ali jo Imam e mahshar hai.
Woh Ali jo Islam ka suttun hai.
Woh Ali jo Sidiq e Akbar hai.
Woh Ali jo Qazi e dahar hai.
Woh Ali jo Sultan e uns wa jaan hai.
Woh Ali jo Imamul mutaqeen hai.
Woh Ali jo hal e mushkilaat hai.
Woh Ali jo marji'a e ikhlaq hai.
Woh Ali jo koh e tur par Noor tha.
Woh Ali jo koh e abu 'ubaid par Massiha bana.
Woh Ali jo koh e zaitun par mu'ajiza bana.
Woh Ali jo mimbar e Ghadir par Mowla bana.
Woh Ali jo 'arshe Muneer par 'Alla bana.
Woh Ali jo kisi ka GHULLAM nahi.
Woh Ali jo subb ka MOWLA ALI hai.
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swamidada



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An excerpt from the lecture by famous Islamic scholar from Pakistan Jawed Ghamadi about real Imam and Imamat: He said:
Imam is appointed by Allah as He appointed Prophets. When Allah appointed Prophets He never consulted any one. It is His Divine right to appoint any Prophet. Same way He appoints Imam without asking or consulting any one. Imams are appointed by His Divine will. Imams can not be appointed according to wishes of public, otherwise there would be chaos and many will claim to be imams, like it happens in political era. Allah ordered The Prophet to declare Ali as Imam, which he did. But many at that time ignored and criticized Prophet, they were unjust people.

Jawed Ghamadi.
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