Shukarvari Beej

layla · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 65

Does anyone from E.Africa recall hearing a Hidayat/Guidance read out in Jamat khanas back in the early 60's or 70's saying that Mowla has approved the Shukarvari Beej to be from 6a.m. to 6 p.m? -- or did this time frame of observing the Shukarvari Beej start when we came to the West?

Also does anyone remember a Talika being read out saying the "...Shukarvari Beej is obligatory and must be observed by all unless for medical reasons?"

kmaherali · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 9911

I have been told of an incident where MHI was approached by one of the leaders in East Africa about Bakshamni of Beej. MHI asked him, "How often does it happen?" The leader responded "Two times per year". MHI said that in that case there is no Bakshamni!

Admin · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 1750

I have heard for the last 40 years or so in Africa and Canada Jamat Khanas the reading of the text that said "Shukarwari Beej is compulsory as per Mowlana Hazar Imam's Hidayat."

I don't recall it as a Talika [I was too young] but al-Waez Amirali Amlani confirmed to me that a Hidayat came through the then Supreme Council who sent a circular to all Jamatkhanas that these were the Hidayat from Hazar Imam [Shah Karim's time].

More on Shukarwari Beej at:

http://sun.ismaili.net/re/page58.html

Admin

nagib · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 294

"Bij thawer m�ra karo to outaro p�hlo par.."

ginan: "Satgour
Shams �m boliya"

layla · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 65

The announcement about Beej being "Obligatory" has also been discontinued here in Toronto.

Any views about the fast being from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m.?

And what about 12 pahor? doesn't that mean 36 hrs?

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

YAM layla,

I remember reading a farman from KIM in which Imam SMS says
to fast 365 days a year from having not one single impure thought. To me, this is the fast of the Ismailies. If fasting from 6 am to 6pm is what u believe is fasting which it is for Muslims, but I think the real tough fast is that everyday. I also remembering reading here, when someone approached Imam SMS and asked how come we dont say namaz 5 times or day, and how come we don't fast during ramadhan. The Imam went on to say then I make it compulsory upon u to say the namaz 5 times a day and fast everyday during ramadhan. I think nagib is right about it being discontinued here in Toronto, I hope I didn't offend ya with my views on it.

Going back to the question, it is compulsory that we fast on Beej as it comes only twice a year. I think the time u stated from 6 am to 6pm is right well according to my beliefs. hope this helps

MAM

kmaherali · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 9911

It should be a matter of concern if the announcement is not made about Beej being obligatory. We may be compromising an important aspect of our tradition.

As for the issue about 6.00am - 6.00pm, I heard from Alwaez Amlani that it was instituted on the basis of "Ghat bakshe Shah Pir Bakshe". Hence anything accepted by Mukhi is accepted by the Shah Pir.

Well it is only an issue of 2-3 more hours. So one can always wait for that time if one does not have confidence in Mukhi's decision. I am sure the Mukhis or whoever was responsible for this decision did not make it lightly.

The geographical diversity of our Jamat gives us a basis for evaluating the appropriateness of this decision. I would think about what is happening elsewhere and make that personal decision.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

maybe this verse from Slokko Motto can help:

satgur kahere: hete-j khaann maa(n)hethee te neepnaa
aaj chak fad vellaa maa(n)he jaann
shukravaaree beej nu farmaan chhe
peer hasan kabeerdeen tenu naam re............173

The True Guide says: It is entirely for sake of love that He created from the origin. Today in the time of intrigue and inspection. There is a farmaan to fulfil the fast of shuravaaree beej and it was made by Peer Hassan Kabeerdeen.

I guess it is obligatory after all,

YAM

kmaherali · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 9911

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

YAM Layla,

12 (baar) poriya beej is what it is called and it was obligatory from Pir Hasan Kabirdeen's time to Imam Aly Shah Dataar's time when he made a farman to change it to only Friday Beej.

If you read Imam SMS Chandraat farman "Tae devas Naya chand no cche, tae sukh ane ruhani shanti utpan karae......"

When chandraat falls on friday its like doubly beneficial to do bandagi that day.

The 12 poriya beej is supposed to prepare you for this doubly important bandagi time 4-5 on Friday morning.

There are some who keep this type of beej even now.

The funny thing is that most of the jamat is feeding their face like I did this morning between 4-5am on Beej day.

Shams

layla · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 65

Shamsu, you said "12 (baar) poriya beej is what it is called and it was obligatory from Pir Hasan Kabirdeen's time to Imam Aly Shah Dataar's time when he made a farman to change it to only Friday Beej. "

I have searched for this apparent Farman, but have not yet found it anywhere. You are not suggesting, that this beej was obligatory only during Pir Hassan Kabirdin's time, are you?

Does anyone have this Farman of Imam Ali Shah?

If we go as per the Ginan, then, it should be 12 pahor, meaning 36 hours, infact if i remember correctly, the verse also tells us that when we have to "break" the fast in between, but only on "ardho aahar" - meaning eat lightly, not "stuffing our faces with parotha and yogurt during bandagi time" which unfortunately has now become a norm.

Furthermore, if we refer to this verse :
satgur kahere: sehej daan-j deejee-e
ane deeje satgur mukhe jaann
vallee gat maa(n)he shukravaaree beej chhoddsho
to paamsho moksh deedaar.......................179

The True Guide says: Offer only pure charity and do it in the presence of the True Guide. After that if you break the fast of shukravaaree beej in JamatKhana, you will attain the Vision and salvation.

Then the question about the beej being from 6 a.m. to 6p.m or as Kmaherali said... "Ghat bakshe Shah Pir bakshe" -- or rather "as per Mukhi's wishes", seems very ???.
How far, is "convinience" vs "conviction" going to dilute our faith?

kmaherali · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 9911

YAM Layla,

I am inclined to agree with you on the concerns you have raised. That we should not allow minor conveniences to erode our deeply rooted convictions. That as far as possible we should not compromise the integrity of our traditions and maintain them in their pristine and original form as far as possible, unless there is an absolute need to do so. Otherwise we will not have any traditions at all!

Having said the above, I think we should also bear in mind Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah's following statement regarding the flexibility of Ismailism in his memoirs.

"Ismailism has survived because it has always been fluid. Rigidity is contrary to our whole way of life and outlook. There have really been no cut and dried rules; even the set of regulations known as the Holy Laws are directions as to method and procedure and not detailed orders about results to be obtained."

On this particular issue about the change of the Beej from 12 pahors to 4, it is inconceivable to me that it would have been possible to introduce such a drastic change without the sanction of the Imam. Even a minor change of breaking the fast at 6.00pm as opposed to doing it in the Gat is raising a lot of concerns ( which is good, it shows that we do not want to tamper with our traditions). What about a change of 8 pahors? How could such a drastic change be accepted by the Jamat without the Imam's approval, given that in those days the Jamat was quite particular in observing all its traditions?

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

YAM Layla,

I have read this Farman of Imam Aly Shah Dataar.

It is just a matter of finding it so that I can quote it to you.

Hopefully soon

Shams.

layla · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 65

thanks for the reply Kmeharali -- my only concern is that sometimes as history has shown, our man-made changes have been a source of "convenience" as opposed to the conviction -- the real instructions of our Pirs.
What I had been told by a senior missionary is that, at one point in our recent history (1960's-70's) the mukhis had gotten into a habit of "bakshamni of the beej" and it was then, that a Hidayat was read out in J.K's stating that beej is obligatory, and only the very young, pregnant women and the sick were exempt from observing it. Unfortunately I have not been able to find this Hidayat -- but have spoken to many from e.africa, who claim that they've all heard this announcement in e.africa.
You mentioned "drastic changes" -- well, you know they do happen every so often, e.g. arabati and bando and then the cycle of change just stopped.
I wonder if the same was true for the change from 12 pohors to 4 pohors?

Shamsu, when you find the farman, can you please scan and send me a copy? The farman will definately clear a lot of my questions.
Thanks

ShamsB · Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 870

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