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Kalima

 
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2003 3:05 am    Post subject: Kalima Reply with quote

Why do we touch the ground and then touch our faces 3 times when saying Kalima?
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altaf_rupani



Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2003 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Kalima Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Why do we touch the ground and then touch our faces 3
times when saying Kalima?


Shamsu, Quran reveals prayers houses should be permitted by Allah:

An-Nur, or Light (XXIV)
---------------------------
36) (Lit in such a Light) in houses, which Allah hath permitted to be raised
to honour; for the celebration, in them, of His name: in them is He
glorified in the mornings and in the evenings, (again and again), -

Our Jamatkhanas are permitted by the Lord and Quran reveals Lord is God and the Lord who permits Jamatkhanas will also guide us how to go about it because the Lord is the guide for all times.

In view of the aforesaid verse, those prayer houses which are not permitted by Allah/Lord - are not legal prayers houses.

Shamsu - you seem to be a confused lot. Share you knowledge not your confusion.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2003 5:25 am    Post subject: The Question is...? Reply with quote

My Dear Aziz

Answer the question or wait for someone who can.
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2003 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: The Question is...? Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
My Dear Aziz

Answer the question or wait for someone who can.


Hey rumor monger - ID altaf_rupani is not Aziz.

The answer has already been given - refer the highlighted underlined contents :

Shamsu, Quran reveals prayers houses should be permitted by Allah:

An-Nur, or Light (XXIV)
---------------------------
36) (Lit in such a Light) in houses, which Allah hath permitted to be raised
to honour; for the celebration, in them, of His name: in them is He
glorified in the mornings and in the evenings, (again and again), -

Our Jamatkhanas are permitted by the Lord and Quran reveals Lord is God and the Lord who permits Jamatkhanas will also guide us how to go about it because the Lord is the guide for all times.

In view of the aforesaid verse, those prayer houses which are not permitted by Allah/Lord - are not legal prayers houses.
Shamsu - you seem to be a confused lot. Share you knowledge not your confusion.
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2003 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are not answering shamshu but criticizing why?
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 5:24 pm    Post subject: You seem to know everything! Reply with quote

Is there anything you don't know?

The question is very specific and your answer tangential.

Is it possible that this is the only one thing about Ismailism you don't already know?

Look up tangential, PLEASE.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: You seem to know everything! Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Is there anything you don't know?

The question is very specific and your answer tangential.

Is it possible that this is the only one thing about Ismailism you don't already know?

Look up tangential, PLEASE.


Shamsu - the answer given to you is very clear:

Quran reveals prayers houses should be permitted by Allah:

An-Nur, or Light (XXIV)
---------------------------
36) (Lit in such a Light) in houses, which Allah hath permitted to be raised
to honour; for the celebration, in them, of His name: in them is He
glorified in the mornings and in the evenings, (again and again), -

Our Jamatkhanas are permitted by the Lord and Quran reveals Lord is God and the Lord who permits Jamatkhanas will also guide us how to go about it (the customs, rites, formalities) because the Lord is the guide for all times.

In view of the aforesaid verse, those prayer houses which are not permitted by Allah/Lord - are not legal prayers houses.
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:48 pm    Post subject: Bye Bye Reply with quote

I have noticed that the Admin or Moderator, i.e. Umed, has started deleting my postings judging it from his point of view even though his point of view goes against the farman and the quran, I am no longer interested in posting in the forum.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 8:05 pm    Post subject: Vocabulary Lesson Reply with quote

Main Entry: tan∑gen∑tial
Pronunciation: tan-'jen(t)-sh&l
Function: adjective
Date: 1630
1 : of, relating to, or of the nature of a tangent
2 : acting along or lying in a tangent <tangential forces>
3 a : DIVERGENT, DIGRESSIVE b : touching lightly : INCIDENTAL, PERIPHERAL <tangential involvement>
- tan∑gen∑tial∑ly /-'jen(t)-sh(&-)lE/ adverb

Pronunciation Key

© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Vocabulary Lesson Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Main Entry: tan∑gen∑tial
Pronunciation: tan-'jen(t)-sh&l
Function: adjective
Date: 1630
1 : of, relating to, or of the nature of a tangent
2 : acting along or lying in a tangent <tangential forces>
3 a : DIVERGENT, DIGRESSIVE b : touching lightly : INCIDENTAL, PERIPHERAL <tangential involvement>
- tan∑gen∑tial∑ly /-'jen(t)-sh(&-)lE/ adverb

Pronunciation Key

© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy


Al-Araf or The Heights (VII)
148) The people of Moses made, in his absence, out of their ornaments, the body of a calf, (for worship): having lowing sound did they not see that it could neither speak to them, nor show them the Way? They took it for worship and they did wrong.
[The aforesaid wordings makes it clear that people should not worship in such things which is not capable of speaking and showing them the Way.]

36) But those who reject Our Signs and treat them with arrogance, - they are Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (forever).

["Signs", inter alia, means hint, indication, suggestion, clue, illustration = make clear by example, etc. As is clear from verse 148 of Chapter 7, Allah has suggested or hinted or indicated or given a clue or illustrated, etc. that people should not worship in such things which is not capable of speaking and showing them the Way and verse 36 of Chapter 7 reveals that those rejecting Allah's signs (suggestion or hint or clue or indication or illustration, etc.) and treat them with arrogance, - they are Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (forever).]

An-Nur, or Light - 24
35) ..... Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

[The Quran verses, inter alia, clearly states that Allah speaks to mankind in allegories and/or Allah doth set forth parables for men. Allegory, inter alia, means "a symbolic narrative" and symbolic, inter alia, means "Illustrative" --- i.e. make clear by example, reveal, parable. As such, Allegory and/or Parable, inter alia, means a lesson (sermon, truth, rule, decree, dictum [authoritative statement]). In other words, Allah has, inter alia, conveyed messages to his followers in allegories and parables which are clear and easy to understand taking into account the following verses of Quran:

Ya-Sin (being Abbreviated Letters) (XXXVI)
69) We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear.

Al-Qamar, or the Moon (LIV)
17) And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

Al-Baqarah, or the Heifer (The Cow)
26) Allah disdain not to use the similitude of things, even of a gnat as well as anything above it. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means Allah by this similitude? By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path), -
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 9:00 am    Post subject: Kalima Reply with quote

Quote:
Posted: 09 May 2003 03:05 am Post subject: Kalima

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do we touch the ground and then touch our faces 3 times when saying Kalima?

Ya Aly Madad

Here is my understanding of the actions during Kalima.

1] We do it because Rasulillah used to do so. (Abualy Waez)

When we do sijda we do it at mowla's feet and at the end of the dua we take the khaak from there (under mowla's feet) and rub it on our faces in Humility and Gratitude.


2] I have heard that in Wajh Deen Pir Nasir Khushraw has mentioned that when we declare that we give witness that there is no Allah but Allah, Mohammed is his Rasul and Aly is the leader of Momins and he is from Allah, we are, with our action of touching the ground and our faces, indicating that the creation represented by the earth and our faces which are our identities are the two witnesses that support our claim.

It appears that in Islam there are usually two witnesses required for any claim to be valid.

If anyone else has other esoteric meanings to add with proper reference please contribute.

Ya Aly Madad
shams
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roxy



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Kalima Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Quote:
Posted: 09 May 2003 03:05 am Post subject: Kalima

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do we touch the ground and then touch our faces 3 times when saying Kalima?

Ya Aly Madad

Here is my understanding of the actions during Kalima.

1] We do it because Rasulillah used to do so. (Abualy Waez)

When we do sijda we do it at mowla's feet and at the end of the dua we take the khaak from there (under mowla's feet) and rub it on our faces in Humility and Gratitude.


2] I have heard that in Wajh Deen Pir Nasir Khushraw has mentioned that when we declare that we give witness that there is no Allah but Allah, Mohammed is his Rasul and Aly is the leader of Momins and he is from Allah, we are, with our action of touching the ground and our faces, indicating that the creation represented by the earth and our faces which are our identities are the two witnesses that support our claim.

It appears that in Islam there are usually two witnesses required for any claim to be valid.

If anyone else has other esoteric meanings to add with proper reference please contribute.

Ya Aly Madad
shams


Shamsu - the answer was given to you in a very clear manner:

Quran reveals prayers houses should be permitted by Allah:

An-Nur, or Light (XXIV)
---------------------------
36) (Lit in such a Light) in houses, which Allah hath permitted to be raised
to honour; for the celebration, in them, of His name: in them is He
glorified in the mornings and in the evenings, (again and again), -

Our Jamatkhanas are permitted by the Lord and Quran reveals Lord is God and the Lord who permits Jamatkhanas will also guide us how to go about it (the customs, rites, formalities) because the Lord is the guide for all times.

In view of the aforesaid verse, those prayer houses which are not permitted by Allah/Lord - are not legal prayers houses.

For abesafa there is a farman, for chandrat there is a farman, etc. and as such if certain things has certain meanings that there should be a farman from mawlana hazar imam. Please note ismaili go as per the farmans.

The things you mention are your own invented interpretations - the khaak, rubbing, etc. - please note they are not of the ismailis - a true ismaili go only as per the farmans only. Please let me know which farman mention about khaak, rubbing, etc. If you do not know then please do not go on mentioning things, more so, since earlier you mentioned things of your own and termed as farman of sultan mohd shan, you translated ginans wrong - aql = breathing, open eyes = blind and you even go the Adams and 50000 from nowhere, etc. Initially you refused to acknowledge that soul could be corrupted and then when everything was made clear from farman and quran you came up with a ginan that soul can be corrupted.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 8:53 pm    Post subject: My dear roxy Reply with quote

Do you have any farman that states why we rub khak on our faces during kalima.

There must be a reason for doing so.

"Amaro deen Aql uper rachaelo cche"

You seem to think Imam has asked us to do this.

Well, get the proof. Where and when did Imam instruct us to do this rubbing our hands over our faces during kalima ritual.

I will not call you any names here. Just show me the proof. Which Imam instructed us to do this action during kalima.
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roxy



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: My dear roxy Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Do you have any farman that states why we rub khak on our faces during kalima.

There must be a reason for doing so.

"Amaro deen Aql uper rachaelo cche"

You seem to think Imam has asked us to do this.

Well, get the proof. Where and when did Imam instruct us to do this rubbing our hands over our faces during kalima ritual.

I will not call you any names here. Just show me the proof. Which Imam instructed us to do this action during kalima.


What do you mean why we rub khaak on the face - I do not rub any khaak on the face. I am repeating my earlier posting.

Quran reveals prayers houses should be permitted by Allah:

An-Nur, or Light (XXIV)
---------------------------
36) (Lit in such a Light) in houses, which Allah hath permitted to be raised
to honour; for the celebration, in them, of His name: in them is He
glorified in the mornings and in the evenings, (again and again), -

Our Jamatkhanas are permitted by the Lord and Quran reveals Lord is God and the Lord who permits Jamatkhanas will also guide us how to go about it (the customs, rites, formalities) because the Lord is the guide for all times.

In view of the aforesaid verse, those prayer houses which are not permitted by Allah/Lord - are not legal prayers houses.

Imam is aware of everything and he gives directions in tariqah matters - refer to the following farmans:

Our Jamat has a living Imam, and it is our tradition, it is our belief, that it is the Imam of the time who gives guidance and direction in matters concerned with the tariqah. I wish it, therefore, to be well understood that I will continue to give guidance on matters concerning the tariqah, that I will give you the direction which I believe is the direction which you should follow, and that in looking at the Jamat around the world, I will be conscious of differences of tradition and I will note them, I will reflect about them, I will look at them with love and affection, but I will also, where it is necessary make adjustments as the fact is that our world is changing; because that is the role, that is what the Imam of the time is to do for the Jamat. So I wish it to be clear to my Jamat in Tanzania, as elsewhere, that it is the Imam of the time whose responsibility it is to give guidance and direction on tariqah matters. Therefore, do not let yourselves be misled and believe that the Imam is not aware, for he is aware of what is happening in the Jamat, not only in this part of the world, but elsewhere. There will be no compromise on the fundamentals of our tariqah. You may be absolutely assured of that.
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farhatnoorali



Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 24
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 4:54 am    Post subject: kalima Reply with quote

i agree with shamshu where he give explanation of Abu ali. I just heard that waaz and it states in that by Abu Ali Missionary.Maula cant teach us every thing so we have alwaaz, religious school, councils and Mukhi sahab. Missionary are trained before they give the waaz. sometimes people argue o&shy;n the things which they shouldnt.<BR>Maula Bless us All and give us true understanding of our faith Ameen
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unnalhaq



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is when someone bares witness, or swears (I give you my word/face) that...(Ashud-Du-Unna) "I bare witness"
Long ago when people swore that the value of the witness was their good name/face
As to the similar way when there is LA ILAHA ILL AL ALAH, it is a custom to raise your shahada finger (right index finger). I know that is missed in DUíA part two and four times in part 3 and also in Eid salaat (only in Khoja-Jamet Khannas). It is however well pronounced in non-khoja ismailis and other Muslims during prayer. One of the best ways I have learned to pick out with great accuracies where there are more mixed (khoja and non-khoja) Ismailis in JK. Look at their hands how they are crossed! Majority of them have their left hand crossed over the top of right. If you know the proper (AADAB) antiquates for Nammaz (sallat) you would know that. Donít tell me that you donít attend any Nammaz, because there are three, which Ismails do attend. Or tell me that you are batini and it does not apply. That is just a cop-out.
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aatimaram



Joined: 12 Apr 2018
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Kalima Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Why do we touch the ground and then touch our faces 3 times when saying Kalima?


There is no significance of doing this action in Ismailism. We have to say Kalima attentively with understanding its meaning.
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