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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - SOUL OR SPIRIT?
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SOUL OR SPIRIT?
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismailignosis wrote:
An Examination of the terms "Soul" (nafs) and "Spirit" (ruh) in the Qur'an


thank you.
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a_27826



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tret wrote:
ismailignosis wrote:
An Examination of the terms "Soul" (nafs) and "Spirit" (ruh) in the Qur'an


thank you.


to: ismailignosis

I join Tret to thank you for sharing what you know.

God bless you and peace be with you.
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mazharshah



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quran says," Wa yasalunak 'anir Ruh. Qulir Ruhu min amri Rabbi. Wa ma utitum minal Ilm illa Qallia." 17/85
Translation:They are asking you (Prophet) concerning the Ruh (spirit). Say (tell them) that the Ruh is Amr (command) of my Rabb. And you people are granted very little of Ilm (knowledge, wisdom).
There are three important words used in this ayat.Ar Ruh(the spirit), Amr (command), and Ilm (spiritual knowledge and wisdom). In Quran the word Ruh is used in singular form. Many Islamic scholars have interpreted Ar Ruh as Holy Spirit, Gibrael Amin, Al Insanul Kamil or mazhar of Allah. In ginanic literature there is a very sensitive and deep meaning couplet:
EJI RUH PURUSH TO AMAR CHHEY
ANEY KAYA TE MARI MARI JAYEY
According to my understanding the words RUH, PURUSH, AMR are very important and they are according to Quranic ayat. Now who is this Purush. Here Purush is ar Ruh, he is amr of Rabb, he is al Insanul Kamil and he is Imam e zaman. All souls are connected to this Purush, which is ar RUH, whom we call supreme soul or universal soul. Mowla Murtaza Ali said," ANNA AMRULLAH WA RUHULLAH ". In human body the center of ar Ruh is forehead (jabeen, peshani). The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazharshah wrote:
Quran says," Wa yasalunak 'anir Ruh. Qulir Ruhu min amri Rabbi. Wa ma utitum minal Ilm illa Qallia." 17/85
Translation:They are asking you (Prophet) concerning the Ruh (spirit). Say (tell them) that the Ruh is Amr (command) of my Rabb. And you people are granted very little of Ilm (knowledge, wisdom).
There are three important words used in this ayat.Ar Ruh(the spirit), Amr (command), and Ilm (spiritual knowledge and wisdom). In Quran the word Ruh is used in singular form. Many Islamic scholars have interpreted Ar Ruh as Holy Spirit, Gibrael Amin, Al Insanul Kamil or mazhar of Allah. In ginanic literature there is a very sensitive and deep meaning couplet:
EJI RUH PURUSH TO AMAR CHHEY
ANEY KAYA TE MARI MARI JAYEY
According to my understanding the words RUH, PURUSH, AMR are very important and they are according to Quranic ayat. Now who is this Purush. Here Purush is ar Ruh, he is amr of Rabb, he is al Insanul Kamil and he is Imam e zaman. All souls are connected to this Purush, which is ar RUH, whom we call supreme soul or universal soul. Mowla Murtaza Ali said," ANNA AMRULLAH WA RUHULLAH ". In human body the center of ar Ruh is forehead (jabeen, peshani). The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.


Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.
Which Ginan is this from?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazharshah wrote:
The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.
I don't think ANDAR refers to bhamar Gufa. Consider the verse before this one.

ejee man meraa musallah allah meraa kaajee
kaayaa hameree maseetaa......................ebhee allah.....6

The mind(heart) is my prayer mat, the Lord is my judge (He is both the witness
and the judge of my supplications and prayers to Him), and my body is the mosque
(a sanctuary, a Jammat Khaanaa from where I offer my
prayers to Him)..............He is indeed the Lord


ejee a(n)dar baytth me namaaz gujaaru(n),
murakh kiyaa jaane taa-et hamaaree...........ebhee allah.....7

I sit within my inner sanctuary and offer my prayers. How would fools know
(the nature of) my worship?....He is indeed the Lord

So ANDAR refers to the kaaya which is the body and is called the masita - mosque.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
ismaili103 wrote:
Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.
Which Ginan is this from?


I heard it in the one waez of late Abu Ali, i request others to give us name of this Ginan.
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mazharshah



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="ismaili103"]
mazharshah wrote:
Quran says," Wa yasalunak 'anir Ruh. Qulir Ruhu min amri Rabbi. Wa ma utitum minal Ilm illa Qallia." 17/85
Translation:They are asking you (Prophet) concerning the Ruh (spirit). Say (tell them) that the Ruh is Amr (command) of my Rabb. And you people are granted very little of Ilm (knowledge, wisdom).
There are three important words used in this ayat.Ar Ruh(the spirit), Amr (command), and Ilm (spiritual knowledge and wisdom). In Quran the word Ruh is used in singular form. Many Islamic scholars have interpreted Ar Ruh as Holy Spirit, Gibrael Amin, Al Insanul Kamil or mazhar of Allah. In ginanic literature there is a very sensitive and deep meaning couplet:
EJI RUH PURUSH TO AMAR CHHEY
ANEY KAYA TE MARI MARI JAYEY
According to my understanding the words RUH, PURUSH, AMR are very important and they are according to Quranic ayat. Now who is this Purush. Here Purush is ar Ruh, he is amr of Rabb, he is al Insanul Kamil and he is Imam e zaman. All souls are connected to this Purush, which is ar RUH, whom we call supreme soul or universal soul. Mowla Murtaza Ali said," ANNA AMRULLAH WA RUHULLAH ". In human body the center of ar Ruh is forehead (jabeen, peshani). The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.


Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.[/quote


Thanks for correction.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5367

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purush also means God.
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be honest, In above ginanic verses pir has used the word 'PRAN PURUSH" for the "soul" of human being but there are many other meanings of word 'PURUSH" let me put it 10 out of 43 different meanings for interesting readers

1, Pupil of the eye
2, God
3, Human being
4, Dhani (Husband)
5, Paro (Mercury)
6, Ancestor
7, Human measurment
8, Freind
9, Servant
10, Daint (devil )
By the way there are 43 different meanings of a single word 'PURUSH"!!! icon_rolleyes.gif
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mazharshah



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
Purush also means God.



To Admin.

This is your assertion that Purush means God, where as Mr. AK has given 10 meanings out of which 2 are God and devil. How come God becomes devil as devil is creation of God. Quran says," AR RUHU MIN AMR I RABB" AND GINAN SAYS," PRAN PURUSH AMR CHHEY". Amr i Rabbi can not be Rabb because Amr is the command from Rabb and this same meaning applies to ginan. I therefore explained, ' AR RUH AS UNIVERSAL SOUL'.
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mazharshah



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
mazharshah wrote:
The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.
I don't think ANDAR refers to bhamar Gufa. Consider the verse before this one.

ejee man meraa musallah allah meraa kaajee
kaayaa hameree maseetaa......................ebhee allah.....6

The mind(heart) is my prayer mat, the Lord is my judge (He is both the witness
and the judge of my supplications and prayers to Him), and my body is the mosque
(a sanctuary, a Jammat Khaanaa from where I offer my
prayers to Him)..............He is indeed the Lord


ejee a(n)dar baytth me namaaz gujaaru(n),
murakh kiyaa jaane taa-et hamaaree...........ebhee allah.....7

I sit within my inner sanctuary and offer my prayers. How would fools know
(the nature of) my worship?....He is indeed the Lord

So ANDAR refers to the kaaya which is the body and is called the masita - mosque.


To KM,

You have right to explain ginan as you like and I do in my way as I understood. Poetry is a vast field and any one can explain according to his/her experiences and relgious or social envirnment.
While saying Du'a, Namaz,or sitting in bandagi we concentrate. The point of concentration is in forehead (jabeen) which I called Bhamar ghufa or Ghar e Hira,or spiritual cave. The Ghar e Hira example I related to Prophet Muhammad, because for years he did bandagi in Ghar e Hira and got first revelation through Jibrael.

Regarding 'kaya meri maseeta', many sufis have explained kaya as grave, mundir, masjid, tomb etc. Regarding this 'kaya meri maseeta', if my body is masjid I am concentrating on namaz, then there should be ( pesh ) Imam.
That Imam we can find and concentrate in Bhamar Ghufa.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazharshah wrote:
To KM,

You have right to explain ginan as you like and I do in my way as I understood. Poetry is a vast field and any one can explain according to his/her experiences and relgious or social envirnment.
That is true, nevertheless it helps to consider the whole Ginan instead of taking verses in isolation. Some verses are interrelated.
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How come God becomes devil as devil is creation of God. Quran says," AR RUHU MIN AMR I RABB"


The same way when Allah can become AL-KAHHAR, AL-GAFETH, AL-DARR. AL-MUJJIL AL- JABBAR then why not he can not be devil!!? use your common scenes the meaning of the Purush has taken as "devil " as a destroyer. and if you wants to know it as per quranic word then "AL-MUMIT"

Quote:
'kaya meri maseeta',


As long as the whole ginan's meanings are concern! then Pir has taken the meaning of 'KAYA' as a human body, it is that simple.
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mazharshah



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
ismaili103 wrote:
Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.
Which Ginan is this from?



To Km,

The couplet is from, " momin chit varni " said by syed Imam Shah.
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mazharshah



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
Quote:
How come God becomes devil as devil is creation of God. Quran says," AR RUHU MIN AMR I RABB"


The same way when Allah can become AL-KAHHAR, AL-GAFETH, AL-DARR. AL-MUJJIL AL- JABBAR then why not he can not be devil!!? use your common scenes the meaning of the Purush has taken as "devil " as a destroyer. and if you wants to know it as per quranic word then "AL-MUMIT"

Quote:
'kaya meri maseeta',


As long as the whole ginan's meanings are concern! then Pir has taken the meaning of 'KAYA' as a human body, it is that simple.


To AK,

You are equating Allah with Iblees, Satan, and Devil!!
So according to you God being Devil is forcing humans to steal, kill, rape, cheat, act unethically, punj bhu, and so on. Al Jabbar, Al Qahar, Al Darr are God's attributal names. Iblees/Satan is creation of God and not God himself.
I have already explained about KAYA in my post above and that is simple.
If you don't understand it is not my fault.
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You are equating Allah with Iblees, Satan, and Devil!!


If you think that way then that is not my fault either! but I explained you earlier that Allah is also 'AL-MUMIT" I am not saying this but Quran says this you can find the word AL-MUMIT in Quran many times! , Oh I forget : taking wrong meaning and take wrong interpretation on every thing is your old hobby!!! doesn't it icon_lol.gif
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erumsuleman



Joined: 24 Dec 2014
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is an article on the differences between soul and spirit

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxo4uNUEb4juclhwVk9rdGd1Mms/view?usp=sharing
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