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How many Adam
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Guest






PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 8:40 am    Post subject: How many Adam Reply with quote

Are there source to validate that there has been many Adams??

Thanks
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 6:52 pm    Post subject: 50,000 ADAMS Reply with quote

Imam SMS farman has stated that " Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..."

(50,000 Adams have passed)
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2003 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 50,000 ADAMS Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Imam SMS farman has stated that " Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..."

(50,000 Adams have passed)


Shamsu are you sure what you say is correct and that you are not rumor mongering ? The farmans of Sultan Mohammad Shah appears in books Kalame Imam E Mubin - Part I & II and they have serial numbers.
Which is the serial number of the farman please ?

You are aware that on Pre-Adam postings you have, on many many occassions, quoted false things and termed them as farmans.

The serial number of the farman please.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2003 2:41 am    Post subject: 50,000 Adam Reply with quote

I have heard this farman, Do not remember reading it though.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2003 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: 50,000 ADAMS Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
shamsu wrote:
Imam SMS farman has stated that " Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..."

(50,000 Adams have passed)


Shamsu are you sure what you say is correct and that you are not rumor mongering ? The farmans of Sultan Mohammad Shah appears in books Kalame Imam E Mubin - Part I & II and they have serial numbers.
Which is the serial number of the farman please ?

You are aware that on Pre-Adam postings you have, on many many occassions, quoted false things and termed them as farmans.

The serial number of the farman please.


SHAMSU - I AM STILL WAITING FOR THE SERIAL NUMBER OF THE FARMAN. IF YOU DO NOT GIVE THE SERIAL NUMBER WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME THEN IT DEMONSTRATES AND PROVES YOU HAVE TOLD A LIE ABOUT THE FARMAN.[/b]
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2003 5:15 pm    Post subject: Farman Reply with quote

Our Ginans have mentioned

"Momin dil Quran"

"Aql khule ta ku Farman Hazir"

Take a deep breath and ask your mowla in your heart if he said there were 50,000 Adams

If you fit the description above you should have a clear answer you will be certain about.


Kalame Imame Mubeen is the best collection of 48th Imams farmans but not the most comprehensive one. I have read a Baitul Khayal Khangi Farman book that has over a 110 pages. There is also another 47th Imam Farman Book that has 48th Imam Farmans too. Then there are private Mandali Farmans that are almost impossible to get.

I do not remember where or when I heard this farman.

I write this with clear awareness of the prescence of Ya Aly with me and with you as you read this.

Serial Number I do not have at this time.

Wish you all the best with your Quest.

Ya Aly Madad
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2003 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Farman Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Our Ginans have mentioned

"Momin dil Quran"

"Aql khule ta ku Farman Hazir"

Take a deep breath and ask your mowla in your heart if he said there were 50,000 Adams

If you fit the description above you should have a clear answer you will be certain about.

Kalame Imame Mubeen is the best collection of 48th Imams farmans but not the most comprehensive one. I have read a Baitul Khayal Khangi Farman book that has over a 110 pages. There is also another 47th Imam Farman Book that has 48th Imam Farmans too. Then there are private Mandali Farmans that are almost impossible to get.

I do not remember where or when I heard this farman.

I write this with clear awareness of the prescence of Ya Aly with me and with you as you read this.

Serial Number I do not have at this time.

Wish you all the best with your Quest.




Ya Aly Madad


Shamsu,

In earlier posting under Pre-Adam/Soul or Spirit you gave a farman number so where is the question of your not having the time. You are refusing to give a farman number because there is no such farman. You said things and termed is as Sultan Mohd Shah's farman and this is wrong - Stop your rumor mongering business.

Not only that - you divert to Ginans and mention:

"Momin dil Quran"
"Aql khule ta ku Farman Hazir"

Take a deep breath and ask your mowla in your heart if he said there were 50,000 Adams

NOW TELL ME IN THE GINAN QUOTED BY YOU WHERE 50,000 IS MENTIONED. WHY DO YOU PURPOSELY TRANSLATE AND INTERPRETATE THE GINANS WRONGLY. ALSO AQL MEANS INTELLECT NOT BREATHING.

WHY DO YOU PURPOSELY TRANSLATE AND INTERPRETATE THE GINANS WRONGLY ?

SULTAN MOHD SHAH MENTIONED IF YOU USE YOUR INTELLECT YOU WILL KNOW ABOUT THE FARMANS AND GINAN MENTION AQL KHULE TA KU FARMAN HAZIR.

SULTAN MOHD SHAH SAID FARMANS ARE HIS GINANS AND HENCE IF THE TRANSLATION/INTERPRETATION GOES CONTRARY TO THE FARMANS ONE SHOULD KNOW THAT THE TRANSLATION/INTERPRETATION OF THE GINANS DONE IS WRONG.

YOU ALSO MENTION:

Kalame Imame Mubeen is the best collection of 48th Imams farmans but not the most comprehensive one.
----------------
= What do you mean "Best Collection". I have been given to understand that:

The Farman Book Part I covers farmans from 1885 A.D. to 1910 A.D. and the Farman Book Part II covers farmans from 1911 A.D. to 1951 A.D.

You also mention:--> I have read a Baitul Khayal Khangi Farman book that has over a 110 pages.
-----------------
= Baitul Khayal Khangi Farman Book pertains to Baitul Khayal only. Hope this is clear. The subject matter did not pertain to Baitul Khayal.

you also mention : --> There is also another 47th Imam Farman Book that has 48th Imam Farmans too.
------------------------
I have noted that the farman books like Gavere Rehmat, etc. are natually picked up from Kalam E Imam E Mubin taking into account that it covers all farmans from 1885 A.D. to 1951 A.D.

You also mention:-->
Then there are private Mandali Farmans that are almost impossible to get.
---------
Private Mandali's Farmans are for Private Mandlis. The subject matter does not pertain to Private Mandlis.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5367

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I request all of you to respect each others view.

There is no need to be offensive. This is just a discussion forum, not a place to settle accounts.

As to Farmans of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah, there are countless books in gujrati and khojki, maybe 10 thousands pages. There are many farmans and one should not make any comments unless he has read all of them. On the other hand, if any quote is provided, it is important that the source is given.

The aim of this forum is to create thinking and discussions and every person has to learn from the others.

Again, please respect the pluralism of thought in this forum and refrain from offensice language elese as moderator, I will start erasing all of th post on this subject...

Administrator.
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Guest






PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
I request all of you to respect each others view.

There is no need to be offensive. This is just a discussion forum, not a place to settle accounts.

As to Farmans of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah, there are countless books in gujrati and khojki, maybe 10 thousands pages. There are many farmans and one should not make any comments unless he has read all of them. On the other hand, if any quote is provided, it is important that the source is given.

The aim of this forum is to create thinking and discussions and every person has to learn from the others.

Again, please respect the pluralism of thought in this forum and refrain from offensice language elese as moderator, I will start erasing all of th post on this subject...

Administrator.


To, the Admin,

The Memoirs of Aga Khan is very clear:

What has been my own policy with my followers? Our religion is our religion, you either believe in it or you do not. You can leave a faith but you cannot, if you do not accept its tenets, remain within it and claim to
"reform" it. You can abandon those tenets, but you cannot try to change them and still protest that you belong to the particular sect that holds them. Many people have left the Ismaili faith, just as others have joined it throughout the ages. About a score of people out of many millions - a small group in Karachi and in India - pretended to be Ismailis but called themselves "reformers". The true Ismailis immediately excommunicated them. There has never been any question of changing the Ismaili faith, the faith has remained the same and must remain the same. Those who have not believed in it have rightly left it; we bear them no ill-will and respect them for their sincerity.
--------

So the farmans appearing in Kalame Imame Mubin Part I & II are enough - he has not missed out anything - in which case, as far as religious issues are concerned, the contents of memoirs of aga khan should also be in the farmans in one form or the other. The farmans are enough and hence the question of "one should not make any comments unless he has read all of them" does not arise. If the contents quoted does not match the farmans, then the person is telling a big lie.

Quran does mention about pluralism:
Al-Kafirum - 108
6) Unto you your faith and unto me my faith.

Pluralism of though does not mean "praying" means playing, eating, dancing, running, etc. but "praying" means praying.

Sultan Mohd Shah has, amongst other things, said to his followers to read books (here the 10000 or whatever the numbers of pages and other books come into picture) related to Ismailis - if they do not read the books how will they know what is what about their faith. Also, if anyone does not know then that person should ask the Imam - if the person does not ask the Imam then it is not the fault of the Imam but the fault of the person. You know Quran mention refer it to Allah and Quran also mention that Lord is God. Farman says share the knowledge - nowhere does the farman mention that one should share the confusion, one after another. The faith is quite clear. However, if one does not follow the farman that person will remain in confusion. So those in confusion should start reading the books - including all the farmans of sultan mohd shah and mawlana hazar imam karim al-husseini aga khan. If the farman books are not available by the Tariqah Board start writing letters, one after another, to the Imam of the Time (details about sending letter to hazar imam is given in the book Ismaili Constitution or having a similar name).

If I remember right - sultan mohd shah did say give a fitting reply. Hope I am giving a fitting reply.

In any event I do not consider my reply as settling the scores - just making things clear in good faith.

I just merely want that "person has to learn from the others" and not get confused by others. Someone said something and termed it as a farman when this was not the case. In the ginan someone translated Aql into breathing and he even got some "50000 "and "Adam" into the picture - the Admin will agree this is wrong - tell the truth do not lie and confuse others. I am taking a break from further posting.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5367

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kalame Imame Mubeen are not the only Farman books of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah.

There are countless other books with farmans which are not covered in Kalame Imame Mubeen. Many of those books are in Khojki and where never transcribed into Gujrati. One such book was recently transcribed from Khojki to Gujrati from the Farmans compiled by Hasham Bhoga Master's compilation, I think under the title Bahere Rahemat. Many of the farman in that books give complete version of some of the shorter farmans recorded in Kalame Imame Mubeen.


Admin
-------------------------------------
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
Kalame Imame Mubeen are not the only Farman books of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah.

There are countless other books with farmans which are not covered in Kalame Imame Mubeen. Many of those books are in Khojki and where never transcribed into Gujrati. One such book was recently transcribed from Khojki to Gujrati from the Farmans compiled by Hasham Bhoga Master's compilation, I think under the title Bahere Rahemat. Many of the farman in that books give complete version of some of the shorter farmans recorded in Kalame Imame Mubeen.


Admin
-------------------------------------


Thank you for the information - The Gavhere Rahamat contains farmans which are edited and taken from Kalam E Imam E Mubin - in other words, the essence of the farmans is deleted to give unclear picture, which is not right by the people who did it. Not heard of Bahere Rahemat. Now the question is which farman appears in other books that are not covered in the book Kalam E Imam E Mubin?
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Admin wrote:
Kalame Imame Mubeen are not the only Farman books of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah.

There are countless other books with farmans which are not covered in Kalame Imame Mubeen. Many of those books are in Khojki and where never transcribed into Gujrati. One such book was recently transcribed from Khojki to Gujrati from the Farmans compiled by Hasham Bhoga Master's compilation, I think under the title Bahere Rahemat. Many of the farman in that books give complete version of some of the shorter farmans recorded in Kalame Imame Mubeen.


Admin
-------------------------------------


Thank you for the information - The Gavhere Rahamat contains farmans which are edited and taken from Kalam E Imam E Mubin - in other words, the essence of the farmans is deleted to give unclear picture, which is not right by the people who did it. Not heard of Bahere Rahemat. Now the question is which farman appears in other books that are not covered in the book Kalam E Imam E Mubin?


WHY NOT MAKE FARMANS AVAILABLE ON THE NET INSTEAD. ACCORDING TO ISMAILI TARIQAH WHEN ONE KNOWS ABOUT THE TRUTH AND THAT PERSON CONCEALS IT - THEN THIS IS A SIN.

ALSO QURAN REVEALS:

Al-Baqara - 2
42) And cover not Truth with falsehood nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 5:07 pm    Post subject: Farmans on the Internet Reply with quote

Farmans are available to those Mowla blesses with farmans.
Search and you may find them.
Farman is Aql of Imam.
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Farmans on the Internet Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Farmans are available to those Mowla blesses with farmans.
Search and you may find them.
Farman is Aql of Imam.


Hazar Imam has blessed the Ismailis with the Farmans. At the same time he has instructed concerned authorities (who had approach the Imam and said they wish to render service to the Imam and jamat) to make the farmans available which they are not doing and they are betraying the Imam. When no farmans are available people start sinning because they do not know what is right and what is wrong. Now if people who has the intellect and does not use them - is it the fault of the Imam.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Not everyone has access to Farmans Reply with quote

Mr Guest,

Alteration of farmans has been going on since the time of Rasulillah(Salwat). The Current Kitab of Quran has been referred to as "Usman's Quran"

There is a verse of a certain ginan

MOMAN MAN EM JANJO JI
Pir Hassanshah

"Donga to ene ene hare vasse, Te to lootae sahebji nu dhyan re"(Con men tend to stay close to Him(Imam), and steal your concentration {away} from the Imam)

Farmans are Haqiqat and I have heard this in Ramzan Molu's Waez
"Shariat ma ghana, Tariqat ma thoda, Haqiqat ma Virla koi" (Many in shariat, few in tariqat, barely any in Haqiqat)
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Not everyone has access to Farmans Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Mr Guest,

Alteration of farmans has been going on since the time of Rasulillah(Salwat). The Current Kitab of Quran has been referred to as "Usman's Quran"

There is a verse of a certain ginan

MOMAN MAN EM JANJO JI
Pir Hassanshah

"Donga to ene ene hare vasse, Te to lootae sahebji nu dhyan re"(Con men tend to stay close to Him(Imam), and steal your concentration {away} from the Imam)

Farmans are Haqiqat and I have heard this in Ramzan Molu's Waez
"Shariat ma ghana, Tariqat ma thoda, Haqiqat ma Virla koi" (Many in shariat, few in tariqat, barely any in Haqiqat)


The question is not alteration but banning of farmans i.e. kalame imame mubin and the farmans of mawlana hazar imam since 1957 till date (only fews are available).

When hazar imam says share the knowledge, sultan mohd shah's says if you know the truth and if you hide you sin - farman is the truth and hence without asking any questions the ismaili.net should start having farmans on the net unless they support banning of the farmans.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 5:59 pm    Post subject: Farman Reply with quote

Which Farman do you want?

Maybe someone on this forum has access to them.
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Farman Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Which Farman do you want?

Maybe someone on this forum has access to them.


Kalame Imame Mubin - Part I & II - they are not available in the books stalls of the tariqah board.

All the farmans of mawlana hazar imam - only few are available.

All the ginans - only few are available.

All the other books which sultan mohd shah quoted in the farmans.

These are just few.

The ismaili.net should print them when they sharing knowledge is one of the farmans of mawlana hazar imam and sultan mohd shah said if one does not reveal the truth about the faith after knowing it then it is a sin.

Admin - if you are true ismaili - make the farmans available on the net - if you are confused - seek hazar imam's direction and also give my posting - the reason behind making available the farmans on the net. Then do what mawlana hazar imam say.
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Not everyone has access to Farmans Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Mr Guest,

Alteration of farmans has been going on since the time of Rasulillah(Salwat). The Current Kitab of Quran has been referred to as "Usman's Quran"

There is a verse of a certain ginan

MOMAN MAN EM JANJO JI
Pir Hassanshah

"Donga to ene ene hare vasse, Te to lootae sahebji nu dhyan re"(Con men tend to stay close to Him(Imam), and steal your concentration {away} from the Imam)

Farmans are Haqiqat and I have heard this in Ramzan Molu's Waez
"Shariat ma ghana, Tariqat ma thoda, Haqiqat ma Virla koi" (Many in shariat, few in tariqat, barely any in Haqiqat)


The answer I gave to this has been deleted - i.e. it is not the case of alteration but non-availability of the farmans books - kalame imame mubin part I & II, etc. etc.

I have noticed that the Admin or Moderator, i.e. Umed, has started deleting my postings judging it from his point of view even though his point of view goes against the farman and the quran, I am no longer interested in posting in the forum.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5367

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Not everyone has access to Farmans Reply with quote

Anonymous GUEST wrote:

"I have noticed that the Admin or Moderator, i.e. Umed, has started deleting my postings judging it from his point of view even though his point of view goes against the farman and the quran, I am no longer interested in posting in the forum."

Reply from ADMIN,

Yes. I will delete ALL of the post of anyone who does insult others on this Forum and does not have the guts to post his name. If you had posted your name I would have given you a notice to refrain from further insults in your post. The deleting of your post has nothing to do with your ideas, only with your disrespect of other people.

ADMIN.
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why changing were made in ginan words?

Last edited by star_munir on Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 8:22 pm    Post subject: 9TH OF SEPTEMBER Reply with quote

Hey Guest man You want to comment on the 9th of September v/s 11th of September situation from Houston Farman.

I know you have researched the facts on this.
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Guest






PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Not everyone has access to Farmans Reply with quote

<P>
Admin wrote:
Anonymous GUEST wrote:<BR><BR>"I have noticed that the Admin or Moderator, i.e. Umed, has started deleting my postings judging it from his point of view even though his point of view goes against the farman and the quran, I am no longer interested in posting in the forum."<BR><BR>Reply from ADMIN,<BR><BR>Yes. I will delete ALL of the post of anyone who does insult others o&shy;n this Forum and does not have the guts to post his name. If you had posted your name I would have given you a notice to refrain from further insults in your post. The deleting of your post has nothing to do with your ideas, o&shy;nly with your disrespect of other people.<BR><BR>ADMIN.
<BR><BR><STRONG><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: skyblue" color=deeppink>Admin - The Guest gave you a fitting reply including reply to the "guts" you mentioned and you deleted it - I did not see any insults here. So you are the o&shy;ne who is telling a lie and cheating. Shame o&shy;n you for doing such a thing.</FONT></STRONG></P><P><STRONG><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: skyblue" color=deeppink>- The Guest.</FONT></STRONG></P>
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 7:58 pm    Post subject: Colors Reply with quote

Thank You for adding color to the forum.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 50,000 ADAMS Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
shamsu wrote:
Imam SMS farman has stated that " Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..."

(50,000 Adams have passed)


Shamsu are you sure what you say is correct and that you are not rumor mongering ? The farmans of Sultan Mohammad Shah appears in books Kalame Imam E Mubin - Part I & II and they have serial numbers.
Which is the serial number of the farman please ?

You are aware that on Pre-Adam postings you have, on many many occassions, quoted false things and termed them as farmans.

The serial number of the farman please.


SHAMSU - I AM STILL WAITING FOR THE SERIAL NUMBER OF THE FARMAN. IF YOU DO NOT GIVE THE SERIAL NUMBER WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME THEN IT DEMONSTRATES AND PROVES YOU HAVE TOLD A LIE ABOUT THE FARMAN.[/b]



I had to ask a friend and now I can answer you intelligent query.

Nurum mubeen 1st edition 1st chapter of Mowla Aly.(I hope you know what that is)

Imam Hussein was sitting in the lap of Mowla Aly and Salman Farsi after taking permission from Mowla Aly asked Imam Hussein "How old is your father H. Aly" Imam hussein replied "I helped the first Adam and there were 50,000 Adams after 50,000 years each.." Mowla Aly put his hand over Imam Husseins mouth and stopped him from revealing any more.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are your leader and True Lord of this world and the next. I am Ya Ali, I am Imam Hussein. Whatever you want to ask, ask Us. We are the First and the Last. Therefore, obey only to Us... Be among those who know the Imam. (Mowlana Aga Ali Shah, 1856 A.D)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know I heard this in Jamatkhana in Aga Hall Wadi Mazgaon Bombay. during morning khane as a child. This was when Noorum Mubeen was read in JamatKhanas.

Mr Guest I would like to strongly advise you to check my reference and if you have any criticism, feel free to post it.

Getting angry and jumping to conclusions without adequate data can make a smart person look less than smart.

"Kaam, Krodh jena gat mahe zaher jagiya tene jitya jitya dav sarve hariya"

Every single line I have attributed to farmans I will try to give more than adequate references for and who do you think is going to look like a flower (in gujrati) in the end.


Hope you have the courtesy to delete your own inaccurate and now clearly embarrassing post's.


Try to learn from what is being posted instead of trying to declare to the whole world that you are a flower.

Pardon my language but Mowla Aly states
"The tongue of an intelligent man is behind his heart, whereas the heart of a fool is behind his intelligence"
Page 6 last paragraph from Living and Dying with Grace translated by Thomas Cleary.

Don't blame me for calling you a flower.

Ya Aly Madad

Shams
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roxy



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 50,000 ADAMS Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
shamsu wrote:
Imam SMS farman has stated that " Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..."

(50,000 Adams have passed)


Shamsu are you sure what you say is correct and that you are not rumor mongering ? The farmans of Sultan Mohammad Shah appears in books Kalame Imam E Mubin - Part I & II and they have serial numbers.
Which is the serial number of the farman please ?

You are aware that on Pre-Adam postings you have, on many many occassions, quoted false things and termed them as farmans.

The serial number of the farman please.


SHAMSU - I AM STILL WAITING FOR THE SERIAL NUMBER OF THE FARMAN. IF YOU DO NOT GIVE THE SERIAL NUMBER WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME THEN IT DEMONSTRATES AND PROVES YOU HAVE TOLD A LIE ABOUT THE FARMAN.[/b]



I had to ask a friend and now I can answer you intelligent query.

Nurum mubeen 1st edition 1st chapter of Mowla Aly.(I hope you know what that is)

Imam Hussein was sitting in the lap of Mowla Aly and Salman Farsi after taking permission from Mowla Aly asked Imam Hussein "How old is your father H. Aly" Imam hussein replied "I helped the first Adam and there were 50,000 Adams after 50,000 years each.." Mowla Aly put his hand over Imam Husseins mouth and stopped him from revealing any more.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are your leader and True Lord of this world and the next. I am Ya Ali, I am Imam Hussein. Whatever you want to ask, ask Us. We are the First and the Last. Therefore, obey only to Us... Be among those who know the Imam. (Mowlana Aga Ali Shah, 1856 A.D)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know I heard this in Jamatkhana in Aga Hall Wadi Mazgaon Bombay. during morning khane as a child. This was when Noorum Mubeen was read in JamatKhanas.

Mr Guest I would like to strongly advise you to check my reference and if you have any criticism, feel free to post it.

Getting angry and jumping to conclusions without adequate data can make a smart person look less than smart.

"Kaam, Krodh jena gat mahe zaher jagiya tene jitya jitya dav sarve hariya"

Every single line I have attributed to farmans I will try to give more than adequate references for and who do you think is going to look like a flower (in gujrati) in the end.


Hope you have the courtesy to delete your own inaccurate and now clearly embarrassing post's.


Try to learn from what is being posted instead of trying to declare to the whole world that you are a flower.

Pardon my language but Mowla Aly states
"The tongue of an intelligent man is behind his heart, whereas the heart of a fool is behind his intelligence"
Page 6 last paragraph from Living and Dying with Grace translated by Thomas Cleary.

Don't blame me for calling you a flower.

Ya Aly Madad

Shams


Samsu - I may bring to your notice that Noore Mubin is not the farmans of sultan mohd shah - it is a history book. There is a big difference between a history book and the farmans. You clearly mentioned Imam SMS farman has stated that "Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..." So the farmans are required whereby sultan mohd shah states "Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..." And by this reply you admit there is no farman of sultan mohd shah which mention "Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..." and thus you told things of your own and termed it as a farman of sultan mohd shah, which is not at all proper. So the guest really had a good intellect and knowledge that he caught you in your improper act.

Fortunately I could get the book and I did not find anything therein what you say. I have got the book photocopied for my reference.

The book mention:

NOORUM - MUBIN
or
The Sacret Cord of God
----
A Glorious History
of
Ismaili Imams.
---
by Alimahomed Janmahomed Chunara
Revised by
Jafferali Mahomed Sufi
Second Edition 1950 - Copies 1500
Bombay
Ismailia Association for India.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 5:19 am    Post subject: First Edition Reply with quote

It is the first edition of Noorum Mubeen and there are other books in which this fact is mentioned . I have checked out one from the library and plan on going through it and get you the exact page etc.
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roxy



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: First Edition Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
It is the first edition of Noorum Mubeen and there are other books in which this fact is mentioned . I have checked out one from the library and plan on going through it and get you the exact page etc.


Remember you mentioned farman of sultan mohd shah and as such it should be from a farman book.
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roxy



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Not everyone has access to Farmans Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Mr Guest,

Alteration of farmans has been going on since the time of Rasulillah(Salwat). The Current Kitab of Quran has been referred to as "Usman's Quran"

There is a verse of a certain ginan

MOMAN MAN EM JANJO JI
Pir Hassanshah

"Donga to ene ene hare vasse, Te to lootae sahebji nu dhyan re"(Con men tend to stay close to Him(Imam), and steal your concentration {away} from the Imam)

Farmans are Haqiqat and I have heard this in Ramzan Molu's Waez
"Shariat ma ghana, Tariqat ma thoda, Haqiqat ma Virla koi" (Many in shariat, few in tariqat, barely any in Haqiqat)


It is an admitted position that the present text of the quran was not copied directly from the original book of allah - in fact the original book of allah was rejected and the quran materials sourced were from different people. The current kitab of quran is not referred as Usman's Quran because the material contains message which are from God. For this you can also refer the Dua and the Farmans. History does reveal, however, that from early childhood, Uthman had learnt to read and write.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 7:05 pm    Post subject: 50,000 Adams Reply with quote

Here we go,

The other reference is as follows:

In the Book "Sufi Mahatmao" published by Re-creation club/ Ismailia Assn. of India in 1965 on page 5 last line, 6,& 7, in the chapter on Salman Farsi.

"Farsi ane Irani loko no manvu cche ke Salman Farsi je amarama Dastur India na name orkhay cche, darsavyu cche "Masare Qul Anwaar" na hawala thi
"Ek waqt Imam Hussein bae wars na hata ane te waqte H. Aly na khoda ma betha hata jyare H. Salaman Farsi ae Aly na sambandi sawal pucchiyu "Ya Imam Hussein aapna pitashri ni umer ketli?"

H. Imam Hussein ae hasi ne javab apyu "Salaman, tame mari nani umer samjine aevo prashna karyu. Ay Salman, Khudae 50,000 Aadam peda karya ane darek aadam ni vacche pachas pachas hajar varsh jetli mudat gujri cche. Me ae jattae pratham Adam ni sahaye kari hati. Munkeero sathe me ae ek hajar yudh karya cche. jema nana ma nanu yudh Khyber na Darul Yudh jaetlu hatu...."

H. Imam Hussein aagal varnan karta hata aetlama H. Mowla Aly ae temna mukh uper hath nakhi farmavyu ke " .....in arabic..." (translates into) "Ay hussein tame chup moun dharan karo jem Rasulillah ae moun daran karyu hatu"


My statement was that Imam SMS has said this. The truth is that Imam SMS said it in Imam Hussein's Joma about 1300-1400 yrs ago.
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