Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam and subsequent emails
[quote="shamsu"][quote="roxy"]Creation of Allah - No Allah did not create anything with his word. <BR>---------------------------<BR>You can see there are millions and millions of birth taking place each day - not just human beings, but animals, birds, insects, mud, stone, computers, airoplanes, shoes, snakes, fish, monkeys, lions, tigers, elephants, hundreds of types of insects and what not - and there are just 24 hours in a day - do you think Allah has the time for giving his word to each and every creation ? I do not think so and as far as I am concerned creation is by though and by his will and not by word - more so, since God is o­ne and there are millions of each creation per day and physically God just cannot create millions of things per day in a physical sense by speaking. To add to this creation is at differen places in the world - so do you think god must be doing a lot of running around the world saying BE, BE, BE, .... or he must be saying "BE" an animal in India at so and so place, "BE" a human being in USA at so and so place, "BE" a fish in the water at so and so place - "BE" an egg in Europe at so and so place. How can o­nly BE be sufficient. So here o­nly BE is not sufficient - BE but what BE ?[/quote]<BR><BR><BR>Roxy<BR>When we live in time and space and try to understand that which is above all else with our limited Human Intellect which is itself a creation of Allah, this type of post is what results.<BR><BR>The concept of a limited human intellect being able to understanding God is inherently flawed.<BR>Our entire existance is contingent upon him and He is completely independent of all else.<BR><BR>He is above and beyond our highest evolved thought. Al- Muta'ali is o­ne of the Names of Allah. Along with As-Samad and Al-Ahad.<BR><BR>We have lived our entire lives in the realm of time, Eternity is a concept we cannot even fathom.<BR><BR>The humility required in this search comes as you progress in it and eventually realize that you are so insignificant against his Vastness that you give up your Identity in the process and become fana (annihilated).<BR><BR>"Mai aur tu ki doori cchor, Ek dekh kuch do nahin<BR>Aisa samaj fana ho usme, [b]tu nahi to woh sahi hai.[/b]<BR><BR>Think of a bubble floating in the air. What comparision is the air inside it to the rest of the atmosphere.<BR>The bubble cannot even fathom the vastness of the atmosphere of this earth. <BR>Now, when the bubble bursts it becomes o­ne with the atmosphere. The o­nly thing between its identity and the Vast Air around it was it's identity itself.<BR>This example is a MINISCULE o­ne compared to the vastness of Allah and our limited selves.<BR><BR>I believe the search to be to recognize the self and discover that our identity is in fact nothing but a spiritual delusion. (A false belief that we exist as seperate from Allah)<BR><BR>The waves in the Ocean may think themselves to be seperate from the ocean and argue with each other o­n the Forums of Ismaili.net but they were never, are not and never will be seperated from the Vast Limitless Ocean of Allah.<BR><BR>So let us progress towards discovering self instead of trying to Understand Him, Who defies Human understanding as he is above and beyond the Human Imagination.
Excellent post Shamsu... especially the bubble example in terms of understanding the concept of Fana Fillah. To those who are seeking all the answers about the Ismaili faith from Quran alone will be greatly disappointed. Quran is the true word of Allah but is incomplete and even then, it is written in allegories so we cannot take everything at it's face value. That is where the farmans of our Holy Imams and holy ginans come in and clear any misconceptions. Our Imam is the speaking Quran Himself so His word is superior to that of the Quran. Shamsu, your knowledge regarding the farmas and ginans is very vast and I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts.
Last edited by Heiswithinme on Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam
Such ideas according to which God created universe on a specific time IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH(SA) said that this is the jewish idea of creation moula in that farman said that creation is perpetual and eternal on other occation moula said" IF U ASK ME A THOUSAND TIME WHAT WAS BEFORE ADAM MY ANS. WILL BE "ADAM" this is the ismaili point of view on on creation and pre adam if u read fatimids priod dais it wil becom clear that there is no begning and no ending in creation and there is creation after creation so if u think that there was a time when God created nothing it means that at that time he was not KHALIQ. not RAZIQ ,RAHMAN, GHAFUR etc and if so God and his acts become accidental and a thing which is accidental HADIS according to our dais can not be God. God and his every action is QADEEM eternal.
for more understanding read PIR NASIR KHUSROW'S 'GHUSHAISH WA REHAISH' which is published by Institute of ismaile studies london Titled Knowleged and libration'
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam
ali77 thanks for quotin the farman of SMS it makes things about creation very clear........... this is a thought i got after reading it that adam repesents one of each kind i guess leading to the fundermental tat is tawhid...oneness and unity...... would like to know more bout creation and ismaili point of view......
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam
ali77 thanks for quotin the farman of SMS it makes things about creation very clear........... this is a thought i got after reading it that adam repesents o­ne of each kind i guess leading to the fundermental tat is tawhid...oneness and unity...... would like to know more bout creation and ismaili point of view......
hammida777 thanks. it is stated in " Tarikh e ibn e khaldoon " page 542 about brith of prophet muhammad that it took place 7000 thousands years after adam. this hadith is narrated by abdullah ibn abbaas . then think logicaly about this hadith and other narations in all religion(chirstanity,jews and in islam) according to which adam is about 7000-10,000 years old then how we can explan the research according to which farming started about 20,000 to 25,0000 BC.and there are pictographys about 50,000 bc . thats y in our islmaili literature there is the concept of cycle and each cycle in about 7000 year and the adam who was at 7000 bc called "Adam e sarandibe" = adam of sirlanka. and adam was not his name but title thats y we say Adam e zaman to mola hazir imam. in short there is creation whiout begning and endding creation in one sens there is begning and endding but as a whole this continous for ever such as day and night starts and end in one sens on other this cycle never ends.as far as tawhid this is explan by our dais in different angal in which God is above existance and non existance "hasti o nisti"
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