"Rooh is the command of Allah" - does not match here. The problem with all these is the Quran was not copied from the Original Book of Allah (Quran) - in fact, this original book of Allah was rejected by those compiling the Quran. For example, you find that people used to come morning and evening and seek the face of the Lord. In fact, the message of the Quran was people should seek the face of the Lord morning and evening. The fact that people used to come morning and evening to seek the face of the Lord clearly reveals that the Holy Prophet had revealed who the Lord is which does not appear in the Quran.
Actually this "inspiration" comes from Allah directly. Allah guides his followers through his Noor.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2003 5:37 pm Post subject: Pre-Adam and other correspondence
Attn: Samsu
It appears I missed out your post regarding Deedar.
For your info, Deedar are of three kinds : Zahiri Deedar, Batuni Deedar and Noorani Deedar.
In other words, Deedar means a Deedar.
The Holy Prophet's Deedar of Allah and His Light [Noor] (greater revelations of his Lord)
----------------------------------------------------------
Quran reveals
An-Najm, or the Star (LIII)
-------------------------------
2) Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
3) Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire.
6) Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form)
in other words
6) One vigorous; and he grew clear to view.
7) While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
Then he approached and came closer,
9) And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;
10) So did (Allah) convey the inspiration to His Servant - (conveyed) what
He (meant) to convey.
11) The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
12) Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
13) For indeed he saw him at a second descent,
in other words
13) And verily he saw him yet another time.
17) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong!
in other words
17) The eye turned not aside nor yet was overbold.
1 For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest!
in other words
1 Verily he saw one of the greater revelations of his Lord
Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:38 am Post subject: Pre-Adam and subsequent correspendence
Attn: Samsu
Please let me know when did the Imam mention "Soul of Momin and Imam is One". If in gujrati language the word "Momin" is a follower then please note the soul gets corrupted and hence the soul of Imam and the Momin cannot be one when the Momin is alive on earth - because the Momin while on earth continues to sin and to wipe out the sin the Momin has to come to jamatkhana, pray for forgiveness to the Imam, etc. etc. I think what you say is the plain rumor mongering just as you mentioned above olives and the Imam.
Also, as mentioned in earlier email, the "holy spirit" refers to the Noor = what do you say ?
Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam and other correspondence
Anonymous wrote:
Attn: Samsu
It appears I missed out your post regarding Deedar.
For your info, Deedar are of three kinds : Zahiri Deedar, Batuni Deedar and Noorani Deedar.
In other words, Deedar means a Deedar.
The Holy Prophet's Deedar of Allah and His Light [Noor] (greater revelations of his Lord)
----------------------------------------------------------
Quran reveals
An-Najm, or the Star (LIII)
-------------------------------
2) Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
3) Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire.
6) Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form)
in other words
6) One vigorous; and he grew clear to view.
7) While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
Then he approached and came closer,
9) And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;
10) So did (Allah) convey the inspiration to His Servant - (conveyed) what
He (meant) to convey.
11) The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
12) Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
13) For indeed he saw him at a second descent,
in other words
13) And verily he saw him yet another time.
17) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong!
in other words
17) The eye turned not aside nor yet was overbold.
1 For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest!
in other words
1 Verily he saw one of the greater revelations of his Lord
Ginan reference "Shah dekhe, shah ko koi koi dekhe"
The ayat above talks about seeing with the heart.
If you think deedar involves physical eyes then I think you need to reflect some more on things like "Eye of the Intellect" and the Farman about "Farman cchodi ne badnajar thi joso to dil ni ankho andhdi thai jase...."
Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam and subsequent correspendence
altaf_rupani wrote:
Attn: Samsu
Please let me know when did the Imam mention "Soul of Momin and Imam is One". If in gujrati language the word "Momin" is a follower then please note the soul gets corrupted and hence the soul of Imam and the Momin cannot be one when the Momin is alive on earth - because the Momin while on earth continues to sin and to wipe out the sin the Momin has to come to jamatkhana, pray for forgiveness to the Imam, etc. etc. I think what you say is the plain rumor mongering just as you mentioned above olives and the Imam.
Also, as mentioned in earlier email, the "holy spirit" refers to the Noor = what do you say ?
Rajkot Feb 20 1910
"Momin no Rooh te Amaro Rooh cche..."
Nairobi Oct 4 1905
"Jaherima manasnu badan napaak thai che pun Rooh napaak thato nathi"
Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:15 pm Post subject: Pre-Adam and subsequent postings
Attn: Samsu
Again you are rumor mongering.
It has come to my knowledge that in the Kalame Imame Mubin (sultan mohd shah farmans), Musa was told to have the Noorani Deedar of Ali (Quran does mention about Musa seeing the Light (the one who compiled changed the wording to "fire", etc.). I also quoted from the Quran about the Zahiri and Noorani Deedar the holy prophet had about Allah. Every day Ismailis asks for Zahiri, Batuni and Noorani Deedar because these types of Deedar are there. It has also come to my knowledge that even the memoirs of agakhan mention this dear. So Deedar means a Deedar - zahiri batuni and noorani. So stop falsifying the Tasbih, Quran, Farman, Sultan Mohd Shah, etc.
Also the farmans of Mawlana Hazar Imam mention that one should have "clean souls". So when you are sinning the souls get impure. Stop sinning and keep a clean soul inasmuch as it has come to my knowledge that jesus christ said even the good of the good sins seven times a day and hence it is necessary that one should go to jamatkhana, ask forgiveness for their sins and keep the soul clean. Your saying that if one commits murders, robberies, rapes, etc. - this person is having a clean soul - hey, come on, you are making me sick - go by the reality and not vice versa.
Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam and subsequent postings
altaf_rupani wrote:
Attn: Samsu
Again you are rumor mongering.
It has come to my knowledge that in the Kalame Imame Mubin (sultan mohd shah farmans), Musa was told to have the Noorani Deedar of Ali (Quran does mention about Musa seeing the Light (the one who compiled changed the wording to "fire", etc.). I also quoted from the Quran about the Zahiri and Noorani Deedar the holy prophet had about Allah. Every day Ismailis asks for Zahiri, Batuni and Noorani Deedar because these types of Deedar are there. It has also come to my knowledge that even the memoirs of agakhan mention this dear. So Deedar means a Deedar - zahiri batuni and noorani. So stop falsifying the Tasbih, Quran, Farman, Sultan Mohd Shah, etc.
Also the farmans of Mawlana Hazar Imam mention that one should have "clean souls". So when you are sinning the souls get impure. Stop sinning and keep a clean soul inasmuch as it has come to my knowledge that jesus christ said even the good of the good sins seven times a day and hence it is necessary that one should go to jamatkhana, ask forgiveness for their sins and keep the soul clean. Your saying that if one commits murders, robberies, rapes, etc. - this person is having a clean soul - hey, come on, you are making me sick - go by the reality and not vice versa.
In fact - after physical death of a person, there is prayer in the Jamatkhana to Mawlana Hazar Imam to forgive the all the souls of their sins. Samsu - stop quoting things which are false to your own knowledge and beliefs. It is possible you have done these kind of quotings in all the forum you have participated till date.
Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Imam SMS
shamsu wrote:
Nairobi Oct 6 1905,
"Koi pun manas athwa Momin no insaaf karvo ae tamaro kaam nathi"
Imam defines Momin as
"Insaan uper je dookh pade cche te Momin ne sukh roop laage cche"
Mombasa Aug 14, 1905.
If you want to quote, quote the whole farman and not a part of it and quote the farman where material is available so that the person goes through the same and verify - I have been told that sultan mohd shah farmans had numbers and you have also not mentioned the farman by the number - hey, come on. I have already demonstrated that earlier you have quoted things of your own and termed as farman of mawlana hazar imam.
regarding "manas no insaf and all that" - I have been given to understand that in the Memoirs of Agakhan the following appears - hope this answers your question :
What has been my own policy with my followers? Our religion is our religion, you either believe in it or you do not. You can leave a faith but you cannot, if you do not accept its tenets, remain within it and claim to
"reform" it. You can abandon those tenets, but you cannot try to change them and still protest that you belong to the particular sect that holds them. Many people have left the Ismaili faith, just as others have joined it throughout the ages. About a score of people out of many millions - a small group in Karachi and in India - pretended to be Ismailis but called themselves "reformers". The true Ismailis immediately excommunicated them. There has never been any question of changing the Ismaili faith, the faith has remained the same and must remain the same. Those who have not believed in it have rightly left it; we bear them no ill-will and respect them for their sincerity.
Samsu - stop rumor mongering dear.
Regarding your other posting - quran reveals "Lord is Allah" and lord, inter alia, is a human being - you can also refer to the earlier contents of the blessed Olive Tree manifest in physical form at one place and Quran also reveals one should not worship things which cannot speak nor guide not give an answer.
Posted: Wed May 07, 2003 5:10 am Post subject: Rooh is a Command of Allah
QURAN
017.085
YUSUFALI: They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
PICKTHAL: They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little.
SHAKIR: And they ask you about the soul. Say: The soul is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little
As you can see in the above paragraph three translators have interpreted it 3 different ways. Some reflection will tell you that we are all from the command of our lord (Mowla=Allah). So when Imam states "My beloved spiritual children" it is supported by the Quran Ayat 17:85 translated here.
CAN SOMEONE SHED LIGHT ON DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOUL AND SPIRIT As it has been used interchangeably by SHAKIR and PICKTHAL.
Almost all the farmans I have quoted come from "Ruhani Raaz" "Ruhani Roshni" or "313". MHI Farmans are from speeches, interviews, etc.
Mr Guest, Please inform me as to when, where and what did I state about Words of Hazar Imam that is not true as I am very concerned about ever making an egregious mistake about any Farman.
You see my life is a Farman of my Imam and if I make a mistake in that It could mean that my life is going in the wrong direction and that is unacceptable to me.
Posted: Wed May 07, 2003 5:17 am Post subject: LOOKING AT THINGS DIFFERENTLY
Ya ALy Madad ALTAF RUPANI,
I have a suggestion about an intellectual exercise.
Take a few minutes and re-read this entire thread BUT, For this one time, Imagine yourself to have the screen name Shamsu and the other person as Altaf Rupani.
This helps open doors one did not even know existed.
Posted: Wed May 07, 2003 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Rooh is a Command of Allah
shamsu wrote:
QURAN
017.085
YUSUFALI: They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
PICKTHAL: They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little.
SHAKIR: And they ask you about the soul. Say: The soul is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little
As you can see in the above paragraph three translators have interpreted it 3 different ways. Some reflection will tell you that we are all from the command of our lord (Mowla=Allah). So when Imam states "My beloved spiritual children" it is supported by the Quran Ayat 17:85 translated here.
CAN SOMEONE SHED LIGHT ON DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOUL AND SPIRIT As it has been used interchangeably by SHAKIR and PICKTHAL.
Almost all the farmans I have quoted come from "Ruhani Raaz" "Ruhani Roshni" or "313". MHI Farmans are from speeches, interviews, etc.
Mr Guest, Please inform me as to when, where and what did I state about Words of Hazar Imam that is not true as I am very concerned about ever making an egregious mistake about any Farman.
You see my life is a Farman of my Imam and if I make a mistake in that It could mean that my life is going in the wrong direction and that is unacceptable to me.
I would certainly appreciate a quick reply.
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
Hello Shamsu,
The things you quoted falsely have already been discussed - just go over the writings.
Regarding spiritual children - the ismailis are the spiritual children of Allah because he has created them from his soul. Only Allah has the right to address his spiritual children as their spiritual children.
Relevant Farman by Mawlana Hazar Imam dated Sunday, November 29, 1964 - Karachi/Pakistan - Garden Religious Night School:
Quran says Khalaqakum min nafsin wahidatin. This means that God says to you, He is addressing men and women and He says He has made you out of one soul. This means that you are at all times brothers and sisters. That he has created you from one soul and it is only if you live within this spirit, within this understanding, that you can really act as a Jamat and act as brothers and sisters, which indeed you are.
= so spiritually you and me are brothers and Hazar Imam is the parent, his spiritual children - OK, so please = no rumor mongering.
Also, Regarding Holy Spirit, Quran reveals in chapter 2 (verse 253)
Those apostles We endowed with gifts some above others: to one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honor); to Jesus the son of Mary [u]We gave clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the
Holy Spirit.
For your info Jesus used to bring life into the dead, etc. and only Allah can do that - the Holy Spirit - what do you say.[/u]
Posted: Thu May 08, 2003 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Rooh is a Command of Allah
Anonymous wrote:
shamsu wrote:
QURAN
017.085
YUSUFALI: They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
PICKTHAL: They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little.
SHAKIR: And they ask you about the soul. Say: The soul is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little
As you can see in the above paragraph three translators have interpreted it 3 different ways. Some reflection will tell you that we are all from the command of our lord (Mowla=Allah). So when Imam states "My beloved spiritual children" it is supported by the Quran Ayat 17:85 translated here.
CAN SOMEONE SHED LIGHT ON DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOUL AND SPIRIT As it has been used interchangeably by SHAKIR and PICKTHAL.
Almost all the farmans I have quoted come from "Ruhani Raaz" "Ruhani Roshni" or "313". MHI Farmans are from speeches, interviews, etc.
Mr Guest, Please inform me as to when, where and what did I state about Words of Hazar Imam that is not true as I am very concerned about ever making an egregious mistake about any Farman.
You see my life is a Farman of my Imam and if I make a mistake in that It could mean that my life is going in the wrong direction and that is unacceptable to me.
I would certainly appreciate a quick reply.
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
Hello Shamsu,
The things you quoted falsely have already been discussed - just go over the writings.
Regarding spiritual children - the ismailis are the spiritual children of Allah because he has created them from his soul. Only Allah has the right to address his spiritual children as their spiritual children.
Relevant Farman by Mawlana Hazar Imam dated Sunday, November 29, 1964 - Karachi/Pakistan - Garden Religious Night School:
Quran says Khalaqakum min nafsin wahidatin. This means that God says to you, He is addressing men and women and He says He has made you out of one soul. This means that you are at all times brothers and sisters. That he has created you from one soul and it is only if you live within this spirit, within this understanding, that you can really act as a Jamat and act as brothers and sisters, which indeed you are.
= so spiritually you and me are brothers and Hazar Imam is the parent, his spiritual children - OK, so please = no rumor mongering.
Also, Regarding Holy Spirit, Quran reveals in chapter 2 (verse 253)
Those apostles We endowed with gifts some above others: to one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honor); to Jesus the son of Mary [u]We gave clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the
Holy Spirit.
For your info Jesus used to bring life into the dead, etc. and only Allah can do that - the Holy Spirit - what do you say.[/u]
Actually Allah being a Living One - Allah's History should continue and is not a full stop after the Holy Prophet Muhammed. More so, since he is the guide as per the changing times.
The below mentioned verses of the Quran, inter alia, makes it very clear that Allah had substituted one revelation for another, he had substituted for a better or similar revelations and further he calls his followers to look to what he is sending for the morrow/future. It is thus clear that during the time of the Holy Prophet Muhammed itself, Allah had changed his farmans (messages) many times to keep up with the needs of the changing times of that period:
An-Nahl, or The Bee (XVI)
101) When We substitute one revelation for another, - and, Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), - they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them know not.
Al- Baqara - 2
106) None of our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?
Al-Hashr, or The Gathering (or Banishment) (LIX)
1 O ye who believe! fear Allah and let every soul look to what he is sending for the morrow. Yea, fear Allah: for Allah is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do.
[Morrow, inter alia, means tomorrow, future, etc.]
Ad-Dukhan, or Smoke (or Mist) (XLIV)
5) By command, from Us, For We (ever) send (revelations)]
To sum up Allah is the guide as per the changing times and his guidance is required as per the changing times inasmuch as the world has ungone a very big change since the times of the Holy Prophet Muhammad. In fact, it is clear from the above that during the time of the Holy Prophet Muhammed itself, Allah had changed his farmans (messages) many times over to keep up with the needs of the changing times of that period
So, as mentioned above, Allah being a Living One - Allah's History should continue and is not a full stop after the Holy Prophet Muhammed. More so, since he is the guide as per the changing times.
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Then he approached and came closer,
