Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 5:28 pm Post subject: Pre-Adam
Before Adam there was no Earth or Heavens. But even without Earth and Heavens there was God somewhere. He drew out a plan to create the Earth and the Heavens including which part of the earth should have snow, which part of the earth should not have snow. The timings of rain, summer, winter, etc. He created the Earth and the Heavens from his own source, i.e. soul, so he is everywhere and in each touch with every thing. Everything has life including trees, stone, mud, etc. Of course I do not think God's form is very very big because say a very big building is built - the owner need not be bigger like a building. The owner of the building may be a six foot height or near about. But this God has very big powers. God did not built any thing physically purely because if one goes by the starting point there was nothing but him - so he built everyting from his own source, i.e. soul, by his will - he himself knows how he does it. Cannot grasp these kind of things. Then when God built the heavens and the earth he came down on earth and he decided to reside on the earth. This is in short.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 7:08 pm Post subject: "Allah's creation is perpetual"
Mowla says "Allah's creation is perpetual"
"When man thinks it is thought, when God thinks it's creation"
Reflect on these
Adam = Aa Dum
Hawwa = Air
Rib = that without which dum cannot inhale hawwa.
Dum cannot exist without Hawwa.
Allah breathes his Spirit into Adam.
Spirit = Zikr = Ya Aly
I think Adam is established when Zikr is established in the Saas usaas.
Then comes Nuh and his Nau
"Nav kije Aly ke naam ki, tema sacha bhariye bhaar.
Jab pavan chale prem ka, tab satgur utare paar"
pavan=saas usaas
sat gur = zikr
bhavsagar= bhavana nu sagar = worldly attachments.
and after that came Ibrahim, Musa, Isa and Rasulillah; the Six days of creation (stages a momin goes through in his or her personal world in the journey towards Allah)
More to follow
please pardon my grammatical errors.
shams
Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 9:25 pm Post subject: pre-Adam and subsequent postings
The following verse of the Quran further clears the matter that Allah after creation of Earth and the Heavens has made the earth his residence and He is ever present in his physical form at one place and spiritually he is everywhere and his gender is male as the wording "He" and "His" demonstrates:
An-Nur, or Light (XXIV)
35) Allah is the Light (Noor) of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the Glass as it were a brilliant star: lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West whose Oil is well-nigh luminous, though no fire touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He pleases to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.
Quran reveals that Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth and, by way of a parable in respect of Light, reveals that the lamp is "lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West whose Oil is well-nigh luminous, though no fire touched it". The source which lights the Lamp is the oil of the blessed Olive Tree and hence blessed Olive Tree refers to Allah taking into account that the wording "blessed", inter alia, means holy, pure, sacred and godly and Allah is holy, pure, sacred and godly and the Quran reveals that it is Allah who gives (all) Sustenance :
Az-Zariyat, or the Winds That Scatter (LI)
58) For Allah is He who gives (all) Sustenance, - Lord of Power, - Steadfast (for ever).
In view of the above, the blessed Olive Tree is the "blessed physical form of Allah" and the oil of the blessed Olive Tree (which lights the Lamp) is His "Light". Quran also reveals that "blessed" Olive Tree (Allah) is "neither of the East nor of the West". This is clear from the fact that the heavens and the earth were created by Allah and hence He was before the East and West were created on earth and heavens, as such, taking into account the origin, Allah (blessed Olive Tree) is neither of the East nor of the West on earth (as well as on Heavens). In view of this it can also be said that the Light is neither of the East nor of the West. Needless to say, the (blessed) Olive Tree, the source of Light is visible and hence the blessed form of Allah is also visible. The fact that the Light is His (i.e. of Allah) or Allah is the source of Light is clearly revealed in the same verse "The parable of His Light is as" and "Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light". To give support to the above, i.e. Allah is the First, He is manifest/visible, He created the heavens and the earth, etc., Quran reveals:
Surah Al-Hadid (57)
3) "He is the first, He is the last, He is the manifest, and He is the hidden and He is knower of all things.
[The word manifest, inter alia, means visible, true, eye-catching, clear, illuminate, reveal, establish, evident].
4) He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
The parable of Light also mention "His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the Glass as it were a brilliant star." Thus, it is clear that the oil of the blessed olive tree lights the lamp of understanding (brilliant Star) taking into account that Quran reveals:
Sad - 38
29) (Here is) a Book which We have sent down unto thee full of blessings that they may ponder over its messages and that men of understanding may receive admonition.
["Ponder", inter alia, means consider, reason, reflect, study, think, weigh, meditate, contemplate, perceive, speculate, conjecture, etc. and "understanding", inter alia, means intellect, mind, reason, assessment, insight, grasp, recognition, shrewdness, comprehension, etc.]
The lamp, inter alia, spreads the light or give the light to others. The lighted lamp of understanding, thus, spreads or gives the light (Allah's message) to others (Light upon Light).
Quran also reveals that Allah guide whom He pleases to His Light and Allah sets forth Parables for men and Allah knows all things including the parable he sets forth for men.
It is significant to note that the Quran reveals:
Al-Ahzab, or The Confederates (XXXIII)
45) O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness, a bearer of glad tidings, and a Warner, -
46) And as one who invites to Allah's (Grace) by His leave, and as a Lamp spreading Light.
Al-Anbiyaa - 21
48) In the past We granted to Moses and Aaron the Criterion (for judgment) and a Light and a Message for those who would do right
It is also significant to note that Quran reveals:
Az-Zumar - 39
27) We have put forth for men in this Quran every kind of parable in order that they may receive admonition.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 3:28 am Post subject: SURA AN NUR
An-Nur, or Light (XXIV)
35) Allah is the Light (Noor) of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the Glass as it were a brilliant star: lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West whose Oil is well-nigh luminous, though no fire touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He pleases to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.
1. "Amara farman cche te Noor cche"
Heaven and Earth are created from the farman(Noor) of Allah. The light of Allah is the cause of Heaven and Earth.
Niche = Mouth of Imam
Lamp = That which makes enlightenment possible. That which manifests the light from the Oil.
Glass contains the light without blocking it. Protects others from getting burned by the flame. Physical body of Imam. Farman reference of changing bulbs but light is same.
Brilliant star="Kutub taro amari peshani ma cche" Intellect of Imam Aql-e-qul
Blessed Tree= Blessed family tree of Nabi Muhammed (salwat) Allahuma saliallah Muhammedi wa ale muhammed.
Olive = (needs more reflection but Hazir Imam sure likes to eat them a lot)
Neither of the east nor of the west = above this world, above and beyond space or place.
Farmans enlighten even if they are obeyed without the fire of love.
Light upon light = Farman upon Farman
Allah guides to his light whom he pleases = "Ame jene cchahiye cche tene amara Noor vade hidayat kariye cche."
Allah guides to his light whom he wills = Get to the light of Allah by obeying his will (Farman) which will make him pleased with you and in turn guide you with more light (of understanding)towards the light.
49th Imam Speech to Asia Society NY
"As we work towards that vision of the future we will remember the Surah of
Light from the Quran. It tells us that the oil of the blessed olive tree lights
the lamp of understanding, a light that belongs neither to the East nor West.
We are to give this light to all. In that spirit, all that we learn will belong
to the world and that too is part of the vision I share with you."
Parables: Parables force us to reflect and knock on the door of the Intellect which is connected to the Aql-e-qul "Darek insan ni aql nu moor Imam ni Aql cche"
Aql-e-qul by definition knows all things.
Humbly submitted, pardon my ignorance if it hurts anyones feelings.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 8:08 am Post subject: Pre-Adam
Farman is not Noor of Allah. You have heard of Noorani Deedar - Does Deedar ring a bell ? If not ponder what is zahiri deedar, hope you have experienced this. You have heard of Prophet getting Deedar of Allah and His Greater Revelation (Light). The source is blessed Olive Tree - that is Allah, the Source.
Regarding farman - If one puts blue gelitin paper over the bulb the light is blue, if green paper the light is green but the Light is one and the same. This conveys that the Allah's Noor is one and the same but his form changes. The Noor has divinity but the Human Form does not have divinity. This is the rule set out by Allah and Quran makes this clear.
The parable reveals that the light of Allah is not the cause of Heaven and Earth. Allah is the cause. Without Allah there is no Light.
Quran reveals:
Fatir -35
41) It is Allah Who sustains the heavens and the earth lest they cease (to function): and if they should fail there is none not one can sustain them thereafter: verily He is Most Forbearing Oft-Forgiving.
You mention hazar imam likes to eat olives - I think this is not so because:
The olive fruit is a drupe. It has a bitter component (oleuropein), a low sugar content (2.6-6%) compared with other drupes (12% or more) and a high oil content (12-30%) depending on the time of year and variety.
These characteristics make it a fruit that cannot be consumed directly from the tree and it has to undergo a series of processes that differ considerably from region to region, and which also depend on variety. Oleuropein, which is distinctive to the olive, has to be removed as it has a strong bitter taste: it is not, however, pernicious to health. Depending on local methods and customs, the fruit is generally treated in sodium or potassium hydroxide, brine or successively rinsed in water.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 8:56 am Post subject: Pre-Adam
Sorry about that bracket (Light upon Light). Posted in a hurry. Not farman upon farman but Light upon Light. i.e. from one form to another. Light is attached to the form. In other words, "upon" also means "attached to", consequent to, etc.. You can refer to the example of different colours of light due to gelitin paper colour and the light.
It can be observed that the blessed olive tree itself gets is nourishment from the soil via its roots at the same time the heavens and earth is created by Allah. In such a way, the source is still the blessed Olive Tree even though it gets its nourishment from the earth.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 2:44 pm Post subject: Allah = Noor of Allah
Ya Aly Madad Altaf Rupani,
Who is Altaf Rupani? Is it his body? Is it his brain? Is it his mind? Is it his consciousness?
Who is reading this post? Is it you or you mind? Are you your mind or do you use your mind to communicate your beliefs?
What is greater your mind or your beliefs?
Just as your body and mind are Mazhar-e-Altaf Rupani,
Imams body and mind are Mazhar-e-Allah.
Zaheri and batuni deedar in reality means having Noorani deedar in the zahir and batuni realm.
Imam SMS "Pak nazar ane pak dilthi joso to dar ek ma khudavantalla nu noor jovama avshe. Farman chodi ne badnazarthi joso to dil ni ankho andhdi thai jashe ...."
Assal Noorani deedar involves absolute annihilation in the Noor of Allah (Name of Allah).
There is no identity left whatsoever hence a millionth of a second and five minutes of Noorani deedar are one and the same.
Have to go to JK will be back soon.
Ya Aly Madad (Madade Aly, Shafayate Rasul, Itayate Allah)
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 7:37 pm Post subject: Farman created the heavens and the earth.
Allah states in the Quran that he created with one word.
The Bible states "In the begining there was the Word, the Word was with God, The Word was God....."
Quran states Ruh is by the command of Allah.
Dear Altaf Rupani,
Imam SMS stated "Je kai cche te Ruh ej cche"
"Whatever is, is Ruh"
Therefore whatever is, is Farman.
The entire Quran is the farman of Rasulillah that he humbly attributed to Allah.
I hope no one elses words were included in the Quran.
In our old dua we used to pray "Aly Muhammed yek khuda, Haq shanasi dafe bala" (Aly and Muhammed are one i.e. khuda, recognition of this absolute truth drives away trials).
Rasulillah hadith has stated "Aly and I are from one Noor"
In the current dua we say "Ya Aly bilutfik adrikni" and right before that we say "eyaka na-abudu va eyaka nastaeen"
Check out the meaning of the latter half of the 5th part of dua.
One of the names of Allah is Al- Muta-ali. It means he who is above the most evolved thought or imagination of man.
There is no way the creation can become one with the creator.
(Fana-fi-Allah)
Can a poem once written become one with the poet? ONLY IF THE POET WISHES IT AND HE ANNIHILATES ALL COPIES OF IT COMPLETELY. NOW IT LIVES EXCLUSIVELY IN THE THOUGHTS OF THE POET.
Are we ready to live exclusively in the thought of the creator AFTER having annihilated our identity/individuality with his blessing into his being which is Noor=Farman=Ism-e-Aazam.
Where is Allah and Rasul now? When we say Shahada what are we saying. Are we just talking about what we have never seen or experienced. Are we basing our belief on heresay, or do we have a real living proof of all that in the form of the Imam.
Rasulillah was the only link to Allah and he passed on 1400 yrs ago.
Am I going to believe whatever is written and told to me 2nd hand or am I going to pledge my allegience to a living entity that guarantees support after death if I follow his Farmans.
Show me one such living entity in the entire world at this time other than our Imam who has the guts to even venture into a discussion about this.
Sorry about digressing into the shanasi aspect of Ismailism. I think I should have stopped earlier.
Ya Aly Madad.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 9:20 pm Post subject: Pre-Adam and subsequent emails
My views in brief:
===========
You mention: Allah states in the Quran that he created with one word.
Quran reveals that everything is created from the Soul of Allah and not from the Word of Allah. In fact word of Allah is guidance and not a command. For example,
Al-Araf, or The Heights
29) Say: "My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return."
By the word of Allah he has commanded justice - but does each and every one live according to the command - no. In fact, Quran mentions so many things, live in peace, go by truth, etc. etc. So, word of allah is not a command but guidance - you either follow it or you do not. and Quran itself demonstrates that there were rumor mongering, people used to do wrong things, etc. even though Allah's word was one should not rumor monger, not do wrong things.
To make matters clear, Quran reveals:
Al-Rad, or Thunder (XIII)
31) Had it been possible for a Quran to cause the mountains to move, or the earth to be torn as under, or the dead to speak, (this Quran would have done so). Nay, but Allah's is the whole command. ==
Light upon Light = Allah's Light is everywhere ---> this seems to fit OK.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 6:00 am Post subject: Pre-Adam - Light upon Light
Attn: Samsu
I will appreciate that "Light upon Light" be discussed. In fact, I was expecting that you would mention that the spark of the light goes back to the light from where it comes. You know Fanafillah. Quran is clear in this regard as at many places. One such example is :
Hud / 11
-----------
4) "`To Allah is your return and He hath power over all things.'"
P.S.: You had earlier addressed me as Altaf Rupani because my ID is altaf_rupani. Please note my name is not Altaf Rupani and I want to keep my Identity a secret. You can address me by my Id.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 7:44 pm Post subject: Pre-Adam and subsequent emails
Shamsu as there is no reply from you I am replying my own posting :
Light upon Light means Light upon Light. This is not a parable of Light but Light itself. Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth and hence, Light on the Earth and Light on the Heavens = Light upon Light.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2003 4:26 am Post subject: NOORAN ALA NOOR
"LIGHT UPON LIGHT"
i.e.
"Nooran Ala Noor" Has been interpreted in many ways
1. It has been seen as the transmission of Noor from one Imam to the next until Qayamat.
2. The enlightenment given by Imam to his Haqiqati Momin. Example-In the ginans we have "Paras Sparse Loha rang palate to jagmag Jyot-----"
Paras=stone that turns loha=iron into gold. Rang=color palate=change
Jagmag Jyot=flame of brilliant light
Posted: Mon May 05, 2003 9:51 am Post subject: Pre-Adam and subsequent Post
Yes - that is right. Light upon Light does convey Light from one form upon another.
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth (then the parable of Light which conveys source of the Light is the blessed Olive Tree). Light upon Light.
In fact, the universe is but a supreme manifestation of God (Mawlana Hazar Imam/blessed Olive Tree) and we are living in God because each and everything is created from His source only, i.e. His soul. Quran reveals that the creation is a continuous activity until one return from where one came, i.e. from the soul of Allah.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2003 1:52 pm Post subject: Ruh
Imam SMS has Stated
"Rooh ek aj cche"
There is one soul
"Momin no Rooh ane amaro rooh ek cche"
Soul of Momin and Imam is One.
QURAN
17:85 They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
17:85. Wayas-aloonaka AAani alrroohi quli alrroohu min amri rabbee wama ooteetum mina alAAilmi illa qaleelan
017.085 They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
As you can see in the transliteration the word Rooh is used.
The translators have interpreted instead of just translating.
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