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On Drinking
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noorani_786



Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 22
Location: Tx

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:38 am    Post subject: On Drinking Reply with quote

I know that drinking is against Islam.&nbsp; But what&#39;s wrong if you are a social drinker?&nbsp; Here is what o&shy;ne of my friends told me, he said when I die do you think god will say:&nbsp; "You are going to hell or I am really mad at you or you have done something really really wrong because you use to drink o&shy;nce in a while?"&nbsp; I mean come o&shy;n God is the most merciful, even you will forgive your kid of drinking o&shy;nce a in while.&nbsp;&nbsp;So, won&#39;t god forgive.&nbsp; There are much worse things that o&shy;ne can do in life.&nbsp; And there so many good things that I do.&nbsp; Is drinking o&shy;nce in a while really that big a deal?&nbsp; <BR><BR>I didn&#39;t know what to say, except if you really love god you will follow his commands.&nbsp; But then ever since that day, I have been wondering - drinking o&shy;nce in a while is it&nbsp;really as big of a deal as we make it?&nbsp; Sometimes I even feel that not drinking at all is like being an extremist.&nbsp; Kinda like a negative thing to have.&nbsp; I don&#39;t know, I am confused.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:58 pm    Post subject: ALCOHOL IS BACTERIA PISS Reply with quote

ALCOHOL IS BACTERIA PISS

What is Alcohol but bacteria excreta.
u take rotten food then u induce better conditions for rotting
the bacteria uses the glucose in the mixture and excretes out alcohol (even the bacteria knows it is bad for the system).
this alcohol is distilled out put in a bottle with shiny labels and sold to people who pay hard earned money to consume this excreta.

My question is would you drink human urine if it was put in nice shiny bottles and everyone drank it on social occasions.

If you would not drink human urine why drink bacteria urine?

And this bacteria excreta is neurotoxic.
30,000 brain cells die with one drink.

IN CONCLUSION
Anyone who drinks is advertizing his STUPIDITY and his desire to become even STUPIDER with each additional drink.


Dont get me started on smoking......


Shams
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ONiazi



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Deerfield, IL, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali madad wa assalam aleikum min Maulana Hazir Imam!

Alcohol is, to be honest, a toxin, a poison. The liver digests the most dangerous substances first, and one of the first things the liver will attempt to process is alcohol in the system. (This is also why people are encouraged not to take medication with alcohol - the medication backs up while the liver processes the alcohol, which can lead to toxic levels of the medication.)

Now, there are those who believe that, initially, the Qur'an permitted limited consumption of alcohol - that one may drink according to one's tolerance but it would be better not to drink at all. Later, the injunction was changed to forbid alcohol all together. (A batini interpretation could also correllate alcohol with other poisons, such as greed, doubt, infidelity to the faith, etc.) This is a matter of interpretation, of course.

From a medical viewpoint, it is best to abstain from alcohol. We don't need it, and it's even harmful for the body, not to mention the impairment that accompanies being drunk - one's inhibitions, which protects one, are brought down, leading to the possibility of sin, vice, or unwise decisions or acts. (A vast majority of unwanted pregnancies and STDs is a result of impairment by alcohol.)

Now, religiously, how would this affect murids? There are those who believe that the Hazir Imam can and will forgive any sin a murid commits. However, I believe there is the condition of resolving not to do it again. So, one can drink resting assured that he/she can be forgiven later.

Nonetheless, if the Imam has made it forbidden, I would suppose the faithful murid, regardless of his/her beliefs, theories, or desires, would comply with His commands.

What interests me is whether the Hazir Imam, living in a European world, drinks. Many murids believe in following the example of the Imam, but then it would be blasphemy to judge anything the Imam does. If the Imam does not drink, then the issue is pretty clear for murids - they should not drink, although in the end the Imam will forgive them if they repent and resolve not to do it any more. If He does drink, then it makes things complicated since, from my understanding, imbibing alcohol (like eating pork) is a shariati rule that remains in force in Ismailism.

Maula hafiz,
Omayr.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:28 am    Post subject: Alcohol Reply with quote

Our Imam has specifically asked us to do as he says and not as he does.

What he does is his business but for us to do as he says is our business.


Shams
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ONiazi



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Deerfield, IL, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali madad!

That makes sense.

So, for Ismailis, the issue is moot: Maulana Hazir Imam has forbidden drinking alcoholic beverages for His murids. This is just one, among many, reasons not to drink. As far as din is concerned, there is no permission, then, to drink.

Others, of course, may believe differently.

Yet, the message of Islam is one of forgiveness as well - God and His Imam will be merciful to all who turn to Them.

Maula hafiz,
Omayr
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drinking is strickly forbidden in Ismailism and Islam. It is haram according to Farmans,Quran and hadith and it is one of the most biggest sin according to Farman of Imam Sultan Muhamad Shah in book Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin

Last edited by star_munir on Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Wilco



Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Befriending Jews and Christians is also explicitly forbidden in the Qur'an (see: Yusuf Ali's translation).
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 10:37 am    Post subject: IRRELEVANT TO SUBJECT Reply with quote

WILCO WHAT U HAVE POSTED IS IRRELEVANT TO THE SUBJECT OF DRINKING.

For your information, during the time of The Prophet Marriages between all Ahl-Al-Kitab were permitted. It was one of the first three khalifs who made that prohibited.

Rasulillah himself had reportedly gone to the home of a jewish Lady who used to throw dirt on him everytime and when she stopped one day he was concerned, when he found her sick, he arranged help for her.


It is said that a little knowledge can be dangerous. Read up my friend and try to focus on enhancing knowledge not hamper the spread of knowledge by posting irrelevant and anti intellectual statements.


Shams
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Wilco



Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: IRRELEVANT TO SUBJECT Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
WILCO WHAT U HAVE POSTED IS IRRELEVANT TO THE SUBJECT OF DRINKING.


It is perfectly relevant. There is a term called "example"; the definition is crucial for anyone who understands English icon_wink.gif.

To bring up this point, I am merely saying that just because it is explicitly stated in the Qur'an, does not mean it's necessarily haram; because, if it is, then a count of all my friends would prove me a sinner. In a similar vain, a case can be made in favour of drinking; rather, a case can be made against the cases against drinking (or something).

Abdication, mon ami.
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ONiazi



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Deerfield, IL, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali madad!

Interesting.

In the Momin Chetamani it is said:
Eji joma(n) joma(n) ma(n)ae ae Narji kahiae
Teni sa(n)kh che aelm mahain,
Chalis sipara Qur'an na,
Te mahain tris che duniya mahain.
(Cheto . . .)

Eji das sipara baaki rahya
Te che ae ghar mahain
Athar Ved tene kahiae
Teni vani Satgur mukhaj mahain.
(Cheto . . .)

This is translated as:

In every Imam it is the same Noor of Ali and the scriptures
bear that out of 40 Siparas (parts) of the Quran are a proof
of that and verily 30 are in this world.
The rest of th 10 Siparas (Parts) are really the gist of this religion
Momins you should recognize the 10 Siparas as the prime
religion and that was what Pir Satgur introduced you to.

Shias believe that the Qur'an cannot be understood by the Muslim alone: the Muslim needs a guide, the Imam, to help them understand it. The Imams have a special knowledge given to Them by God to do so.

Ismailis have appended beliefs that make this significant. Ismailis believe, alegorically, in two Qur'ans: the book and the person, the former being revealed to Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh&hd) and the latter being the Imam. Because the book is difficult to understand, but the person is not, and furthermore because the second has been placed to expound on, explain, expand, and implement the first, Ismailis place a heavy emphasis on what the Imam says rather than what the Qur'an says.

(Defense: Many Sunnis claim that the above is un-Islamic. However, the Sunni attitude does not work better. Anyone can pick up, read, and attempt to understand the Qur'an, but that leads to where the Sunni world is now where various groups, with at times opposite beliefs and rules, use the Qur'an to attack and discredit other groups. It is virtually impossible to state for a fact what the Qur'an is saying, especially since it is such a difficult work, religiously speaking. There are many levels of meaning for each verse.)

Now, back to the issue of this thread. Drinking is forbidden in the Qur'an, yes, but ultimately that is not why Ismailis do not drink. Regardless of what the Qur'an says, Ismailis do not drink because they have been thus instructed by the Hazir Imam. Although Ismailis revere the Qur'an, they revere even more the living, speaking, and up-to-date Qur'an, who is the Hazir Imam.

Maula hafiz,
Omayr
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:31 am    Post subject: SPECIFIC REFERENCE PLEASE Reply with quote

Wilco wrote:
Befriending Jews and Christians is also explicitly forbidden in the Qur'an (see: Yusuf Ali's translation).


COULD YOU PLEASE QUOTE THE SPECIFIC SURA AND AYAT PLEASE

THANK YOU

AND

YA ALY MADAD

SHAMS
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lakhania



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking it to the next level... Is selling and serving of Alcohol also forbidden?<BR><BR>
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Selling drinks or giving it to some one is a very big sin and is strickly forbidden.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: REFERENCE PLEASE Reply with quote

MUNIR

COULD YOU PLEASE GIVE REFERENCES FOR YOUR STATEMENT

SHAMS
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read in hadith that any kind of use of sharab is haram.You can not use it,sell it , give it to others, tell some one to drink, take it or buy it from some one be they muslim or not or make it It is totally forbidden .

Drinking is like poison. If some one will ask you to give me poison is it right to give him or her? You know that some thing is harmful for you than will you use it? definately not . Will you give any kind of thing to any one which you consider harmful?? So selling or giving it is also haram and a big sin.

Shamsu you have read Kalam-e-Imam Mubin so I dont need to tell you how much big sin it is.
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In not any Farman Imam said to drink sharab.

Regarding wazzu with sharab Imam said if He made Farman to do so than without making any argument you have to do so if you are true momin. It is just example.
Another example is that Imam said If I say day than its day and if I say night than its night. [these are not exact wordings]
This means that Imam has final authority.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:45 pm    Post subject: kim part II Reply with quote

KIM part II pages 110, 120, 121

Imam SMS has mentioned that if the doctor recommends and the illness is severe it is OK. a few illnesses are also mentioned like pneumonia and plague. And if the pain during labor is very severe and the doctor recommeneds.

There are very severe warnings against drinking alcohol and using tobacco.

In two places on pages 460 to 465 Imam SMS has mention that using Tobacco and Alcohol is like burning your ruh.

Shams
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right and I agree with you that if doctor says to patient due to severe illness to drink than its not sin because at that time it is necessary for him or her to drink in order to become well but otherwise drinking only causes problems and thats why its not allowed.In western countries drinking is very common and thats the one reason that why there are so many problems over there.
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nargisk3



Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 49
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does wazzu/wadu mean?
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:30 am    Post subject: cleanzing Reply with quote

It is the ritualistic shariati tradition that involves washing of hands feet and other parts of the body before prayers, done by Muslims.
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nargisk3



Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 49
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what does wazzu have to do with drinking?
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lakhania



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no right or wrong answer for questions like these (Sex, Drinking).. I think this is more a cultural issue than a religious one.. At the end of the day, its your choice.. GOD has given you the right to choose.. Ask yourself the same question and honestly listen to the answer you get.. If you can justify yourself as to what you are doing is right. Then you dont have to care about what others think...
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algharib



Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:21 am    Post subject: drinking Reply with quote

To the best of my understanding, It is not DRINKING that is forbidden in Islam, but INTOXICATION ("NASHA"), (which is further defined as "anything that makes one lose respect for their mothers' and sisters'). [I am paraphrasing here, based on my understanding, and not verbatim from any scripture]. Hence, ANY intoxicating addiction, be it drinking, or gambling, or even the overly attachment of ANYTHING in particular that takes one away from one's set path in life, is forbidden.

One may argue that drinking in moderation is beneficial according to recent studies etc etc. However, as anyone who has fallen into that trap will tell you, the expanse from moderation (however one defines moderation) to indulgence is mostly subtle and without warning.

When push comes to shove, I believe that it is a personal choice, and a reflection of the AQL that we possess. I like to approach things logically, and, logically, the risks are great and the rewards, few, if any, and so I govern myself accordingly. God has granted us, in His Mercy, the status of ashraf ul maqluqaat (the highest of all creations in the universe). It is upto us to stay worthy of that title)

To the person that posted the message about alcohol being bacteria and fermented piss etc etc, I wish to ask this.... Have you ever eaten youghurt (DAII)? Ever look at youghurt under a microscope? or the process of producing it? *grin*

Not much in this world is inherently good or bad. It is how we use it and apply it that tilts the scale in one direction or the other.

Good luck to you all with your choices.
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karimqazi



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 77
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:45 am    Post subject: drinking Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad to all

I want to mention one farman from Mowlana Sultan Mohmmad Shah this farman is about the idenitification of haqiqthi momins. Mowla says that (these are not exact words but paraphrased) If you drink one drop of "shraab" and you did not do tauba u will never be haqiqthi. IF Mowla is talking about a single drop of shraab then my fellow ismaili brothers and sisters how do u think Mowla will allow you to drink a glass of sharaab.

Thanks
Karim Qazi
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alinizar313



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Drinking Reply with quote

I already mentioned in my previous post under Jalaludin Roomi, the farman regarding this, Once again for your information:

KIM Part 1 Farman no 7. Page 24 & 25
Farman no 9, page 28, 29 &30
Farman no 21, Page 65.

Actually if one wants to indulge in bad habits, he will look for the way to satisfy his inner conscious (Zameer). Because it never tell lie. Honestly speaking, every Ismaili knows that drinking is a bad habit. So my Rooh Dost, Don't waste your precious Moments (Dums) and limited time in this things.There comes no limit and we keep on arguing.
Tell me honestly, Is anyone asks oneself" What are the pre-requisite to become one with Him. What is the shortest path to acheive Asal Makan. How can we progress in Ibadat, What treatment should I take for my ailing soul". We just wasting our time for nothing. Just to satisfy our ego that I am right and other is not. I again tell you to think with Imam Aql and it is my conviction that you will never never go wrong. You will get the right answer and that will satisfiy your concious.

Take yourself out from this CHAKKAR and Be with HIm.
What we have to do now? For the answer, I will quote our farman " Ruh jinyan sudhi badan ma chhaiy thiyan sudhi qaiyd ma chhaiy. Insan ooper laazim chhaiy ke Ruh ne qaiydkhana ma thi kadhi ne saari jagiyan ma raakhaiy". This is our religion

Be humble, honest and generous.
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nagib



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one interview, the present Imam said that the Intellect of man was the highest creation of Allah therefore anything that would impeach this intellect to function properly was forbidden, including alcohol. These are not the actual words but its close to the actual interview. Unfortunately I do not remember the date of the interview...

Nagib
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unnalhaq



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:42 pm    Post subject: On Drinking Reply with quote

It look me a while to figureout what you were talking about when you said "sharab". Why don't you call it with its ARABIC name? Al Cohol Oh my God don't tell me that REC/NightSchools didn't tell you that: It was discovered by the Arabs hence the word Al-cohol. The monks used to use spirits as a disinfectant until Romans found out from Arabs on how to distill it and make it drinkable. I am also sorry that someone here talked about bactria piss...How about cow piss? I think most of you forget taste?

Last edited by unnalhaq on Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Sooper



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

: O ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, (Dedication of) stones, And (divination by) arrows, Are an Abomination Of Satan&#8217;s handiwork; Eschew such (abomination), That ye may prosper. [Al-Qur&#8217;an 5:90]


The Prophet of Islam Muhammad (Pbuh) said:

a. Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity is prohibited even in a small quantity. Thus there is no excuse for a nip or a tot.

b. Alcohol is the mother of all evils and it is the most shameful of evils.

c. Not only those who drink alcohol are cursed but also those who deal with them directly or indirectly are cursed by Allah.


BIBLE

a. Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. [Proverbs, 20:1]

b. And be not drunk with wine. [Ephesians 5 :18]


and the one who said that it's ok to drink as a cure .. Allah in quran says that Allah ne haram kamo mai tumharay liyay Shaafa nahi rakhi .
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unnalhaq



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooper wrote:

and the one who said that it's ok to drink as a cure .. Allah in quran says that Allah ne haram kamo mai tumharay liyay Shaafa nahi rakhi .

This is my take on many of the religious doctrines i.e. Toura, Bible, Quran and Farmans that they are reviled/written the in a time or region or during a social condition(s) at that time.
As you may know humankind does not create but humans discover what has been created for them by The Almighty. There are times when dicoveries have enabled us to benefit from those discoveries. For example, many of the medical discoveries and finding have found the uses of Gelatin, and Al-Cohol.
It is also my opinion that The Books- are written with the use of metaphors and sometimes it is very difficult to ascertain what was the meaning behind it, all we can do is to translate it in to the language that we understand and as you may very well know that the tone or sometimes the words its-self gets lost in the translations. Also when looking at The Books and the scriptures you must not just understand the language but one must research the time when it was written and what were the human conditions, the cultures, the values systems, the social and political conditions and on and on.


Last edited by unnalhaq on Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total
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sheri



Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Health Benefits of Moderate Drinking Questioned
30/03/2006 9:37:00 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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THURSDAY, March 30 (HealthDay News) - Many previous studies suggesting that moderate drinking helps prevent heart disease may be flawed, says a report by a group of researchers from Australia, Canada and the United States.


They analyzed 54 studies that looked at the association between drinking and risk of premature death from all causes, including heart disease. The new report concluded that many of those studies did not account for the effects of age and illness that make abstainers have higher death rates than moderate drinkers.

The researchers investigated suspicions that many of the abstainers included in these studies were actually people who'd reduced or quit drinking due to declining health, frailty, medication use or disability. They found that only seven of the 54 studies included only long-term non-drinkers in the abstainers' group. Those seven studies found no difference in death risk between abstainers and moderate drinkers.

The findings appear online in advance of the May issue of the journal Addiction Research and Theory.

"The widely held belief that light or moderate drinking protects against coronary heart disease has had great influence on alcohol policy and clinical advice of doctors to their patients throughout the world. These findings suggest that caution should be exerted in recommending light drinking to abstainers because of the possibility that this result may be more apparent than real," researcher Tim Stockwell, of the Centre for Addictions Research at the University of Victoria in British Columbia, Canada, said in a prepared statement.

"We know that older people who are light drinkers are usually healthier than their non-drinking peers. Our research suggests light drinking is a sign of good health, not necessarily its cause. Many people reduce their drinking as they get older for a variety of health reasons," Kaye Fillmore, of the University of California, San Francisco, School of Nursing, added in a prepared statement.

The researchers cautioned that their report doesn't disprove the idea that light drinking is good for health, because too few error-free studies have been performed.

More Information

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has more about http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm. alcohol and health.

SOURCE: University of California, San Francisco, news release, March 30, 2006




Copyright 2006 ScoutNews, LLC. All rights reserved


Source: http://healthandfitness.sympatico.msn.ca/News/ContentPosting.aspx?newsitemid=327233068&feedname=CP-HEALTHSCOUT&show=True&number=5&showbyline=False&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc
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