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shivaathervedi wrote: Out of curiosity, was that gift of Kalam e Mowla presented to Prince Hussain in Arabic or Persian or in some other language?

It was in Khojki Script Hindi language.

Admin wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote: Out of curiosity, was that gift of Kalam e Mowla presented to Prince Hussain in Arabic or Persian or in some other language?

It was in Khojki Script Hindi language.

Do you have in your possession any Persian manuscript of Kalam e Mowla?

No I have not seen any Persian manuscript of Kalame Mowla.

We have a Persian and Hindi side by side in 2 columns in Khojki script Pir Pandiyat Jawanmardi.

I am posting here first 10 stanzas from Kalam e Mowla;

AWWAL ZIKR ALLAH KA JO HAI RAHIM RAHMAN

DOYEM KALMA MUHAMMAD KA JO HAI DIN IMAN

SOYEM KALMA MOWLA KA JO YE KALAM SUNAYA HAI

YE KHAZANA JAWAHIR KA HAI SO ZAHIR KAR BATAYA HAI

ALLAH EEK JANO SIRJANHAR MUHAMMAD JANO ALLAH KA NABI

NABI JI KE PICHHEY SAHIB E IMAMAT SAACH KAR MANO MURTAZA ALI

ALLAH EEK MUHAMMAD HAI NABI MOWLA ALI HAI NABI JI KE THHAAM

ISS REET IMAN LAAOU KARO QABUL AEE HAI HUKAM E KALAM

SAACHA BOLO SAACHA CHALO KE MOMIN KA HAI SAACHA DIN

YE FARMAYA SHAH E AUOLIYA AAP MON RAKHO SAACHA YAQEEN

This lines below are not part of the original Kalame Mowla. These are recited as introduction before starting the recitation of Kalame Mowla.

AWWAL ZIKR ALLAH KA JO HAI RAHIM RAHMAN
DOYEM KALMA MUHAMMAD KA JO HAI DIN IMAN
SOYEM KALMA MOWLA KA JO YE KALAM SUNAYA HAI

None of the ancient manuscripts of kalame Mowla contain these lines above which may have been taken from some other Granth..

In fact the most ancient manuscript, which I have seen, starts with the following sentence:

Pir Shams Kahe Suno Bhai Momino, Mowla Ka Kalam Ka Bayan

Admin wrote:This lines below are not part of the original Kalame Mowla. These are recited as introduction before starting the recitation of Kalame Mowla.

AWWAL ZIKR ALLAH KA JO HAI RAHIM RAHMAN
DOYEM KALMA MUHAMMAD KA JO HAI DIN IMAN
SOYEM KALMA MOWLA KA JO YE KALAM SUNAYA HAI

None of the ancient manuscripts of kalame Mowla contain these lines above which may have been taken from some other Granth..

In fact the most ancient manuscript, which I have seen, starts with the following sentence:

Pir Shams Kahe Suno Bhai Momino, Mowla Ka Kalam Ka Bayan

The Kalam e Mowla you posted on your Heritage site does not start with the line you mentioned ie, PIR SHAMS KAHEY BHAI MOMINO!!
Still the lines which I have mentioned are recited in Karachi/Hyderabad JKs.

Like the ginan said, Varan Chatris and Sur Betalis Bhankia

I am sure you can complete the sentence

Information

At the Literature Centres

Kalaam-e-Mawla – Wisdom of Hazrat ‘Ali

A new CD of selected verses of Kalaam-e-Mawla, recited with musical accompaniment, is available for purchase at the literature counter. The CD also includes a gist and translation of the recited verses.

Please click here to view more details.

http://iicanada.org/national/sun-2016-0 ... #node10804

Kalaam-e-Mawla Playlist - Mohamed Virjee

Following this preamble, please allow Auto-Play on YouTube as several verses of the Kalaam are then recited. Many of you will recognise our Al-Waez (Rai Farouk Topan) being quoted several times in the preamble.

Enjoy.

Video:
Kalaam-e-Mawla - Preamble - Mohamed Virjee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEXSsq0 ... wt&index=1

I have adopted these two paragraphs from an article written by Mr. Farouk Topan and posted on SIMERG.COM. These paragraphs confirm what I wrote in this thread on June 23, 2016.

From Simerg:
The Kalam-i Mawla (hence referred to as Kalam) is a poem of 327 verses, composed in Hindi, whose content draws inspiration from the sayings, speeches and sermons of Mawlana Ali(a.s.). "The actual COMPOSER of the verse is not known". Unlike the practice followed in some compositions, – for example, in the Ginans – where the composer mentions his name within the body of the text, the composer of Kalam has refrained from doing so. His action may have been dictated by modesty, or even piety, in not wishing his personal attribution to impinge upon the considered authorship of the first Imam. Thus the authoritative status of the verses, as expressing the Kalami (speech/sayings) of the Lord, Mawla, has been preserved.

II: The Doctrinal and Esoteric Dimensions in the Kalam-i Mawla

The first dimension may be termed doctrinal; its expression is interspersed throughout the poem as the basis for man’s action. Two examples may suffice for our purpose here. The opening verse of Kalam-i Mawla sets out a theological hierarchy. The first remembrance (Zikr), it says, is of Allah; the second profession (kalma) is of Muhammad (s.a.w) and the third is of the Mawla who narrates “his kalam, a treasure of jewels revealed to us.” Thus God, the Prophet and the Imam are mentioned from the beginning. In verse 5 the concepts of Tawhid, Nabuwwa and Imamah are expressed explicitly: “Know that Allah, the Sustainer is One; that Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah; after the Prophet (comes) the Lord of the Imamat, Murtaza Ali; believe in him with truth.”

Ya Ali Madad.
I wish to know is Dr Topan an Ismaili? If not ,which sect from he is?
A person however qualified is NOT FULLY COMPTENT it explain many of marfati or baatin material.

nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad.
I wish to know is Dr Topan an Ismaili? If not ,which sect from he is?
A person however qualified is NOT FULLY COMPTENT it explain many of marfati or baatin material.

Of course Dr. Farouk Topan is an Ismaili. Received his Ph.D from university of London where he held position of senior lecturer until 2006. Currently he is the Director of Kiswahili center that is part of Aga Khan University East Africa.

Ya Ali Madad:
Dr Topan looks like a Haqiqati in his view.
Firstly translating from Hindi language and explaining it in English.secondly the composer source is UNKNOWN.
Has any effort been made to find the original kalaam ,which should be in Arabic?

nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad:
Dr Topan looks like a Haqiqati in his view.
Firstly translating from Hindi language and explaining it in English.secondly the composer source is UNKNOWN.
Has any effort been made to find the original kalaam ,which should be in Arabic?

Dr. Topan is a man of letters, he is Ph.D and fluent in English and knows Hindi means he is competent to explain in English.
Kalam e Mowla is a compilation from mostly Nahjul Balagah (sermons and sayings of Ali) which is originally in Arabic.
The text of Kalam e Mowla is not against Quran teachings.
Regarding composer, read this thread. It is either Pir Shams or Aga Shamsuddin as discussed, if you think some one else please research and know us the name.

786-110
Subject: 14 pieces of advice of Imam Ali (as) for a leader

We tend to act as a leader from time to time in different capacity - as head of an organisation/institution, as a head of family, as an employer etc and with it carries a lot of responsibility, As lovers of Ahlul Bait (as)
we should be aware of them and I thought of sharing it with you.

1. As a leader, you are just a servant of God.

2. Know your audience.

3. We are all humans that make mistakes; be forgiving.

4. Remove negative people from your circle.

5. Remove the hatred.

6. Equality and justice are not the same thing.

7. If it isn’t broke, don’t try to fix it.

“Do not discontinue the good practices which the earlier people of this community had acted upon,​ ​by virtue of which there was general unity and through which the subjects prospered.”

8. Everyone is a small cog in a big machine.

“Know that the people consist of classes who prosper only with the help of one another, and they are not independent of one another.”

9. Always give people the credit they deserve.
“Appreciate the performance of every one of them,​ ​do not attribute the performance of one to the other,​ ​and do not minimise the reward below the level of the performance. The high position of a man should​ ​not lead you to regard his small deeds as big, nor​ ​should the low position of a man make you regard his big deeds as small.”

10. Never treat people favourably due to relationship with you.

“Give them appointment after tests and do not appoint them according to partiality or favouritism,​ ​because these two things constitute
sources of injustice and unfairness.”

11. Listen to constructive criticism.

“Fix a time for complainants wherein you make yourself free for them, and sit for them in common audience and feel humble therein for the sake of Allah who created you…”

12. Show your face

“Do not keep yourself secluded from the people for a long time, because the seclusion of those in authority from the subjects is a kind of narrow-sightedness and causes ignorance about their affairs.”

13. Communicate clearly.

“Do not enter into an agreement which may admit of different interpretations and do not change the interpretation of vague words after the conclusion and confirmation​.​ (of the agreement).”

14. Be organised

“Assign every matter its proper place and do every job at the appropriate time.”

Are these 14 advice of Mowla Ali mentioned in the book Kalam e Mowla published by ITREB?

shivaathervedi wrote:Are these 14 advice of Mowla Ali mentioned in the book Kalam e Mowla published by ITREB?

Not all sayings of Mowla Ali are contained in the publication you have alluded to.

Some more...

Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)!

How near is the living to the dead who will meet him soon;

How far is the dead from the living who has gone away from him;

Certainly nothing is viler than evil except its punishment;

Nothing is better than good except its reward;

In this world everything that is heard is better than what is seen;

While everything of the next world that is seen is better than what is heard!

Have a nice day...

kmaherali wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote:Are these 14 advice of Mowla Ali mentioned in the book Kalam e Mowla published by ITREB?

Not all sayings of Mowla Ali are contained in the publication you have alluded to.

Some more...

Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)!

How near is the living to the dead who will meet him soon;

How far is the dead from the living who has gone away from him;

Certainly nothing is viler than evil except its punishment;

Nothing is better than good except its reward;

In this world everything that is heard is better than what is seen;

While everything of the next world that is seen is better than what is heard!

Have a nice day...

Your these and previous quotations are from Nahjul Balagah.
You quoted Mowla Ali said;

"Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)"

Mowal Ali said," GLORY TO ALLAH (SWT)", then how come Satpunthi Ismailis say 'Imam is God'? Where as Ali is praising Allah!!

shivaathervedi wrote:Your these and previous quotations are from Nahjul Balagah.
You quoted Mowla Ali said;

"Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)"

Mowal Ali said," GLORY TO ALLAH (SWT)", then how come Satpunthi Ismailis say 'Imam is God'? Where as Ali is praising Allah!!

Hazarat Ali was a Caliph and as such his audience was the general Muslim Umma. Hence he cannot project an esoteric concept in front of an exoteric audience. The Imam always speaks according to the level of the audience.

Remember also that Hazarat Ali was the 4th choice. Hence the general Muslim population did not have the understanding of the esoteric nature of Imamat.

kmaherali wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote:Your these and previous quotations are from Nahjul Balagah.
You quoted Mowla Ali said;

"Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)"

Mowal Ali said," GLORY TO ALLAH (SWT)", then how come Satpunthi Ismailis say 'Imam is God'? Where as Ali is praising Allah!!

Hazarat Ali was a Caliph and as such his audience was the general Muslim Umma. Hence he cannot project an esoteric concept in front of an exoteric audience. The Imam always speaks according to the level of the audience.

Remember also that Hazarat Ali was the 4th choice. Hence the general Muslim population did not have the understanding of the esoteric nature of Imamat.

Let us assume your assertion," The Imam always speaks according to level of the audience". The Satpunthi jamaits are considered esoteric jamaits believing in esoteric concepts, but still addressing the jamaits of subcontinent Imam keep saying INSH'ALLAH/HAMDULILLAH/BLESSING OF ALLAH AND IN A FARMAN OF CHAAN RAAT MSMS SAID,' KHUDA TAMARA GUNNAH BUKHSH KAREY'. An important question is," Why Imam has to hide his position?" Huqq is Huqq, Satiya is Satya. Huqq is with Ali and Ali is with Huqq, what Ali declared is Huqq that is GLORY TO ALLAH.

shivaathervedi wrote: Let us assume your assertion," The Imam always speaks according to level of the audience". The Satpunthi jamaits are considered esoteric jamaits believing in esoteric concepts, but still addressing the jamaits of subcontinent Imam keep saying INSH'ALLAH/HAMDULILLAH/BLESSING OF ALLAH AND IN A FARMAN OF CHAAN RAAT MSMS SAID,' KHUDA TAMARA GUNNAH BUKHSH KAREY'. An important question is," Why Imam has to hide his position?" Huqq is Huqq, Satiya is Satya. Huqq is with Ali and Ali is with Huqq, what Ali declared is Huqq that is GLORY TO ALLAH.

It is not a matter of hiding. It is a matter of not creating confusion in society. What happened to Mansur when he told the truth about his status? You don't talk of Calculas when students don't know to add, subtract and mulitply.

There is a thread on Ali Allah, please do not discuss this subject here. This is specifically for Kalame Mowla.

Naj ul Bhalaga is on http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ul+bhalaga

Ali Allah discussion is at: http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 9&start=60

kmaherali wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote: Let us assume your assertion," The Imam always speaks according to level of the audience". The Satpunthi jamaits are considered esoteric jamaits believing in esoteric concepts, but still addressing the jamaits of subcontinent Imam keep saying INSH'ALLAH/HAMDULILLAH/BLESSING OF ALLAH AND IN A FARMAN OF CHAAN RAAT MSMS SAID,' KHUDA TAMARA GUNNAH BUKHSH KAREY'. An important question is," Why Imam has to hide his position?" Huqq is Huqq, Satiya is Satya. Huqq is with Ali and Ali is with Huqq, what Ali declared is Huqq that is GLORY TO ALLAH.

It is not a matter of hiding. It is a matter of not creating confusion in society. What happened to Mansur when he told the truth about his status? You don't talk of Calculas when students don't know to add, subtract and mulitply.

Imam is here to guide clearly and not to create any confusion, otherwise followers will be double minded or more confused. Message should be clear and understandable. Is there any comparison between Imam of the time and Mansoor Hallaj? Was Mansoor more brave than Imam that he declared openly 'I am Huqq'?

This discussion on Mansur al Hallaj should continue on

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 4&start=90

shivaathervedi wrote: Imam is here to guide clearly and not to create any confusion, otherwise followers will be double minded or more confused. Message should be clear and understandable. Is there any comparison between Imam of the time and Mansoor Hallaj? Was Mansoor more brave than Imam that he declared openly 'I am Huqq'?

In an esoteric tradition there are always layers of understanding. It is never one understanding for everyone. Each murid has his own relationship with the Imam. That is why we have majalis to cater for the needs of different murids.

Stick to Kalame Mowla here.

JollyGul.com Presents: Kalame Mawla with Synchronized Lyrics & Translations

https://www.jollygul.com/kalame-mawla/

Admin

The verse below is missing in the Kalame Mowla link:

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/23023

jeebh methee hay pu(n)jee teree, howe sahee sab bazaar
ke methee jeebhse adkaa howe, bepaareekaa bepaar
duniyaa bazaar me meethaa bolo,to sab deel tere haath aave
to sab deel meene vase saheb rajaa, usku(n0 tu(n) sahee paawe............74

Polite speech is your capital. It is considered as genuine in the market place. Through polite speech your worth increases. Such is the trade of a trader. In the market place of the world speak politely, then you will have control over all hearts. Since in every heart the Kingly God resides, you will indeed attain Him.

Please can you add it.

Hazrat Ali: Virtues of knowledge

A large number of prophetic traditions were in circulation by the second century of Islam. However, many of them were thought to be falsely attributed to the Prophet, prompting an investigation of which ones were genuine. Investigators consulted hadith specialists (muhaddithun) to trace the hadiths back to the Prophet through a chain of people who had transmitted them. If there were several trustworthy chains for a hadith, it was preserved in the collections. “For the Shi’a, while they too revered the example of the Prophet, they recognised the Imams who provided a continuing source of authority and guidance. Hence, their hadith include the sayings and deeds of their Imams” (Muslim Devotional and Ethical Literature p 20)

Among the notable Shi’i scholars is the work of al-Kulayni (d. 941). Born in Rayy in Persia, he is often referred to by the title al-Razi, commonly attributed to Persian scholars born in Rayy. His work Kitab al-Kafi, the first in a series of thirty-five, is an important compilation of the Prophet’s hadith. Noted for his reliability and trustworthiness, his works have had a profound influence on Islamic scholarship.

In his Kitab al-Kafi, Vol. 1, al-Kulayni notes that Hazrat Ali said:

‘O seeker of knowledge! There are numerous virtues of knowledge. [Should knowledge be incorporated in human form then] humility would be its head; absence of jealousy would be its eye; understanding would be its ear; truth its tongue, search and preservation of truth its memory; purity of motives its heart; recognition and knowledge of [human] affairs and [attributes of] things its reasoning; its hand mercy; its leg, visit to the scholars; its ambition peacefulness; its wisdom guarding against evil; its headquarters salvation; its leader health and vigour; its ride fidelity; its armament sweet words; its sword acceptance [of the truth]; its bow sympathy and hospitality; its army, discourses with the scholars; its wealth manners and good bearing. Guarding against evil would be its treasure; its kit and tiffin good deeds; getting on well [with others] its drink; its guide divine guidance; its mate love of the virtuous.’

Cited in “Hadith Literature,” Muslim Devotional and Ethical Literature, Secondary Curriculum, The Institute of Ismaili Studies, p 23
nimirasblog.wordpress.com/2019/05/29/hazrat-ali-virtues-of-knowledge/

Kalame Mawla With Lyrics & Translations
Mohamed (Mac) Virjee

JollyGul.com had launched Mohamed (Mac) Virjee's website on its hosting platform in early November 2019 for the Jamat to conveniently play and enjoy Mac's ginans, granths and devotional music all in one place.

JollyGul.com audio player can display synchronized line by line lyrics and translations. However, at that time, only Mac's Satgurna Shaloka album (which has selected recitations of verses from Shaloko Moto and Shaloko Nano accompanied by music) were running with lyrics and translations on our platform.

JollyGul.com has now added lyrics and translations to Mac's very popular Kalame Mawla (with music) recitations as well.

Click on the ➤ icon below to go straight to the Kalame Mawla section of the audio player on Mac's website and start listening with lyrics and translations display on your computer or smartphone.

Kalame Mawla is a poem composed in Hindi, whose content is inspired by sayings, speeches and sermons of Hazrat Imam Ali - our first Imam. Mac gives a 3 minute Preamble (Introduction) to Kalame Mawla before the thematically selected verses (Truth, Knowledge, Charity etc) start playing.

https://www.jollygul.com/mac-virjee/?so ... e%20Mawla)