Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: What Farman?
Quote:
Kigali, Farman 1966
Mowlana Shah Karim
"I understand that some of our people in East Africa do consume pigs meat in substantial quantity and they also give it to their innocent children. This meat is forbidden to every ismaili just in the same way it is forbidden to every Muslim. It should not be consumed at all!
I shall announe this publicly all over Africa and also in Nairobi that no Ismaili should eat this meat.
Pigs meat has been forbidden in our history for more then 1300 years. It causes savagery in the human being.
My Grandfather was very much against the eating of pigs meat , his dislike for this meat was always respected at the parties hosted by the King of Great Britain, it always made sure that no bacon, ham or pork was laid for him when he attended any international or royal banquet.
Missionary should express this point with appropriate examples and arguments."
I hate to intrude, but I don't see this Farman at all in 1966. The farmans in Africa in 1966 are as follows: Zaire, Tanzania (Tanganika), Kenya, Madagascar, Iles Comores, and Uganda. With a farman of such extremity one would think it would show up. Kindly provide the day and the source of this Farman so that it can be verified.
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: Re: What Farman?
samirnoorali wrote:
Quote:
Kigali, Farman 1966<BR>Mowlana Shah Karim<BR><BR>"I understand that some of our people in East Africa do consume pigs meat in substantial quantity and they also give it to their innocent children. This meat is forbidden to every ismaili just in the same way it is forbidden to every Muslim. It should not be consumed at all!<BR><BR>I shall announe this publicly all over Africa and also in Nairobi that no Ismaili should eat this meat.<BR><BR>Pigs meat has been forbidden in our history for more then 1300 years. It causes savagery in the human being.<BR><BR>My Grandfather was very much against the eating of pigs meat , his dislike for this meat was always respected at the parties hosted by the King of Great Britain, it always made sure that no bacon, ham or pork was laid for him when he attended any international or royal banquet.<BR><BR>Missionary should express this point with appropriate examples and arguments."
<BR><BR>I hate to intrude, but I don't see this Farman at all in 1966. The farmans in Africa in 1966 are as follows: Zaire, Tanzania (Tanganika), Kenya, Madagascar, Iles Comores, and Uganda. With a farman of such extremity o­ne would think it would show up. Kindly provide the day and the source of this Farman so that it can be verified.<BR><BR>Thank you.<BR><BR>Samir Noorali
<BR><BR>Dear Samir, <BR>I don't know about this farman but it is actually true. I was hearing a Wa'az by Rai Abu Aly and he said that o­nce Imam came to JKand get to know that the jamat is eating pork meat. Imam got agry with Rai Abu Aly. He said u should have told them not to eat it. Abu Aly said, Maula i told them but they didnt listen. Maula became very very angry. but suddenly smile at Abu Aly and said, Do u want me to say Farman o­n that. Abu Aly said, Yes Maula that would be superb and then Maula said Farman o­n not eating Pork. so thats was the event and the event was told by the man himself, Rai Abu Aly (may Maula bless his soul).<BR><BR>Thank you
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Farman 1966
Dear naushad25:
I hate to repeat my request more than once, but at this time it seems very appropriate. It has been stated that this farman took place in Kigali 1966. This farman is very explicit and we would have known about it quite early. Since it was brought up I am requesting verification of it. There is no farman registering 1966 in Kigali. Normally, we don't even post farmans on this board. Since brother nagib has posted it I am asking for verification by indicating the day and the source (meaning which book was it printed from). Until then I am assuming that this farman is not registered and may have been fabricated. Once again, in my previous post I have indicated the areas in which Hazer Imam has given farmans in Africa. This farman does not show up in the data base, neither under Kigali or Rawanda 1966. Before placing such words on this board we need confirmation by day and source. We will look it up for verification.
I appreciate what you said about Abu Ali. I knew him very well, but I don't remember such an incident. However the point is that any farman must be registered and show up in a list of farmans. These farmans cannot come from anonymous sources. They must come from authentic farman books which have been printed and circulated in public. As far as 1966 is concerned only Zaire, Tanzania (Tanganika), Kenya, Madagascar, Iles Comores, and Uganda show up.
If this farman was simply somebody's recollection of an event, or paraphrased of what the Imam said then it is not authentic. A farman has to be printed and part of a collection in which the jamat is aware of and it has been known to be circulated. Saying that Abu Ali said that the Imam was angry is not good enough, especially since this farman is very important in nature.
I still stand that this farman has not been authenticated, nor does it show up in any circulated book. Till then I would be very reluctant to accept it's authenticity.
<P>Dear Samir,<BR><BR>i would say thats not a good reason for not poting out urself of eating pork. if u dont have a farman still u shud know being a muslim that islam has prohibited it and i would say Missionaries are right hand of Imam. they are there bcz they have done something and they know something. Saying that u cannot believe o­n imam saying not to eat pork means ur not understanding what the work of missionaries is. They are there to guide us bcz imam cannot reach everywhere. before saying that its not authentic, i would suggest u to read literature, seek knowledge, ask missionaries like Rai Kamaluddin and give fruitful comments o­n that. I have heard a waez of Rai Abu Aly thats why i m saying, otherwise we dont have any right to spread rumours.<BR><BR>Peace.</P>
So Mr. Samir,<BR><BR>I asked Rai Kamaluddin Missionary and he said there is a clear farman of Imam about pork consumption and we should never consume it. <BR>Further, apart from pork, he took my attention towards a verse of Quran. I would like you all to check it and read it. Its <FONT face=Arial>chapter 5, verse 5. so The thing that confuses me is how muslims slaughter and i believe thats why the meat is halal, if we do it in that way and in UK, it is done using electric shocks. <BR><BR>Has Maula has ever told us about this thing or is there any farman o­n meat or pork.<BR>Secondly, the verse before which you refered says, you can marry their women so does it mean that ismailies can marry any o­ne? He answered:<BR><BR><DIV><FONT face=Arial>Well, o­ne has to choose between rigidly going by the book and allowing intellect to play its role in the radically changing circumstances.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><DIV><FONT face=Arial>Yes, Mawla has mentioned in his Farman about pork being forbidden. The Holy Quran allows Muslim men to marry Christian and Jew women. It is o­nly for social reasons and other practical issues that Ismailis are encouraged to remain within the fold of the community.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><DIV>With kind regards,</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV><BR>Kamaluddin Ali Muhammad</DIV><BR><BR>I hope it helps.<BR></FONT>
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