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aminL
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 84
Location: Toronto
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 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:43 am Post subject: 5 Pillars of Islam |
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Ya Ali Madad,
I know of the 5 pillars of Islam however I would like to know how you feel about Zakat. I know that we have to give it to the Imam of the time, but what I really want to know is how do you feel about other Muslims (Sunis) giving there Zakat to the poor people. Any views?? |
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kmaherali
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 9913
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:00 am Post subject: Concept of Sacrifice - Bhagavat Gita |
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To me what is important is the Niyah behind. Is it given with a detached attitude and purely for the sake of Allah and for the prupose of purification. If it is, then I believe it will be accepted. The following verses from Bhagavat Gita best describe this concept.
Chapter 17 (11:13)
11. A sacrifice is pure when it is an offering of adoration in harmony with the holy law, with no expectation of a reward, and with the heart saying 'it is my duty'.
12. But a sacrifice that is done for the sake of a reward, or for the sake of vainglory is an impure sacrifice of Rajas (worship of gods of power and wealth).
13. And a sacrifice that is done against the holy law, without faith, and sacred words, and the gifts of food, and the due offering, is a sacrifice of darkness.
This is an example of how wisdom from different traditions serve to reinforce and illuminate the key concept of charity - a strength of pluralism. |
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karimqazi
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 70
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Ya ali madad to all
In human history offering to the lord is a very old tradition. People offer food, flowers, fruits, percious jewels, and gold/silver/ect.
The logic behind this is to make the Lord happy so the giver can benifit. In the Quran, Allah says give me a loan so I can establish you on earth forever. In old times muslims pay zakath, nazrana, sathka, and kerath. They all have the same purpose which is to make the Lord happy. Whatever your nayath (will) is God will return in manyfold.
Sami maro evo je koi no nah rakhe baar, tame alo ek (1) var, sami ale soh soh (100) var
When humans offer money not all of them know our Lord like we do but our Lord (shah) still of course knows all of them and gives back to them as well.
May mowla bless you all and grant you understanding of our tharika
Karim Qazi |
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star_munir
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1602
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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In Ginan Pir says
Aashaajee Sukaa fal so nahee kuchh bhaave
tenu moddhun fitt-fitt thaay jee
khaaraa paannee sarovar kaheeyen
peetaa taras nav jaaye..................Haree anant..366
Oh Lord The dried(raw) fruits are never tasteful
and the face of the person eating them becomes very ugly
The lake water is very salty(although it is abundant)
it will never quench one's thirst no matter how much of
it is drunk
Haree You are eternal...
Aashaajee Kupaatre daan khaaraa jaanno
dasond veenaa nahee leve jee
kalar maanhe jem mehaj varse
tenu daan nav thaay.....................Haree anant..367
Oh Lord If charity is directed towards a false container-purpose
(any institution other than the Imam's)
The Lord will not accept it as charity without
observance of the tithe
It is like rain falling on an infertile ground
and the charity does not benefit the donor (or the
receiver)
Haree You are eternal... |
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Admin
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1757
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| What about first listing the 7 pillars of Ismailism? |
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aminL
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 84
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| On top of the 5 pillars of Islam we Ismaili's add two more: Tahara, and Walaia. (Sorry about the spellin errors) |
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kmaherali
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 9913
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:35 am Post subject: Our Interpretation and Charity |
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While it is important to be aware of our interpretation in this discussion, I think it is also important that we do not become intolerant to other interpretations. We should avoid saying "we are right and you are wrong". Otherwise we will fail to promote pluralism in this manner.
The verses of Anant Akhado do potray our understanding of charity. However I do not think we should say these things to others. These are batini concepts which we should be aware of and should remain within our Jamat. It is as good as saying MHI is God publicly. |
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aminL
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 84
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| I was not saying that we are right and they are wrong nor was that my intent. I was just merly saying that these are the other 2 pillars that we add and there is nothing wrong or nothing to be ashamed about it. If they can not except that those are our belifs well then that is there problem. |
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kmaherali
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 9913
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| aminL wrote: |
| I was not saying that we are right and they are wrong nor was that my intent. I was just merly saying that these are the other 2 pillars that we add and there is nothing wrong or nothing to be ashamed about it. If they can not except that those are our belifs well then that is there problem. |
I am referring to the verses of Ashaji and not your comments. |
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aminL
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 84
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Oh im sorry, i guess i must have misinterperated your response |
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star_munir
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1602
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Ya Ali Madad
Karim as you said While it is important to be aware of our interpretation in this discussion, I think it is also important that we do not become intolerant to other interpretations.
I am not becoming intolerant and I am not debating with non ismailis here but with ismailis and there are not my words but the verses of Ginan by Pir Hasan Kabirdin in which there is direct answer of the discussion which was we ismailis give dasond to Imam while nonismailis give it to needy people so what do you think. I cant say that ismailis should also give zakat to other people not in JK or both the ways are right we can do whatever we want. I just posted what is in Ginan about this issue. At the time Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] also people gave money of dasond to Prophet [PBUH] not direcltly spent it on poor people |
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kmaherali
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 9913
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| star_munir wrote: |
Ya Ali Madad
I am not becoming intolerant and I am not debating with non ismailis here but with ismailis and there are not my words but the verses of Ginan by Pir Hasan Kabirdin in which there is direct answer of the discussion which was we ismailis give dasond to Imam while nonismailis give it to needy people so what do you think. |
YAM Munir,
The discussion on this subject started with what do we think about other Muslims paying Zakat. In my opinion, since most of them do not recognise the Imam or have no understanding of SuPatra, I said that if their intent is for the sake of Allah only then it will be accepted.
I am in no way suggesting that Ismailis should also start doing the same. It would indeed be a regression. For Ismailis Dasond is the only lawful charity. They will not have the excuse of ignorance like the rest of the Muslims. |
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