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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Pork/drinking/smoking???
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Pork/drinking/smoking???
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheri said :

Quote:
Note: "This to me is not a puritan prohibition" which means "this to me is not a religious prohibition." "There's no pressure being placed on me by my religion."


"I have told my spiritual children on many occasion, stay away from smoking and stay away from drinking. If you do not wish to follow this firman, it is up to you to be responsible for the results, but I advise you to follow this farman for your own good."

MHI

Oct/Nov 1966
Eldoret, Kenya



" On this visit to East Africa, I have heard, I have been told that some spiritual children have taken up a horrible habit of drinking alcohol and that not only some spiritual children have taken up this habit, but that some of them have become alcoholics. I warn my spiritual children that this is a horrible habit. To be drunk is for every muslim whether he be a shia or a sunni muslim, to be drunk is a sin against Islam. And I want this to be well understood."

MHI

Nov 8th 1966
Kigoma Jamatkhana,
Tanzania
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sheri



Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"drunk" is the key word here. Please look up the definition of "drunk", then re-read and reflect.

It is against the IMAM's farman to drink and smoke. But being "drunk" is a sin in Islam.

So for ismailis smoking is also going against the IMAMs farmans. MHI has made many farman on smoking and drinking in the "precious gems" as well.
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheri said :

Quote:
"drunk" is the key word here. Please look up the definition of "drunk", then re-read and reflect.

It is against the IMAM's farman to drink and smoke. But being "drunk" is a sin in Islam.

So for ismailis smoking is also going against the IMAMs farmans. MHI has made many farman on smoking and drinking in the "precious gems" as well.


Ohhhh acha....So going against the firman of MHI is ok for you ?? If YES, then why act as if it is only MHI's opinion that matters the most to you ???..If you drink occasionally then its ok for you but if are addicted or get drunk then that's a sin, Does that even make sense ???...Does quran specify upto how many ML is halal ???
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5812

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the present Imam has used the word stupidity only a couple of time in his Farman, one was in a Farman about drinking and smoking....
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brother Shiraz,
Tret urfe Sheri has become out laws recently, fyi they are both same but using two ids any way I point out many times that Tret makes his own interpretation and over ride the imams farmans too, in my opinion if any ismaili find mistakes in imams farman then he or she can not consider murid of Hazar Imam
So far Shams,Shiraz,Nusrri and my self criticized him or her for doing this wrong interpretations, thanks for come forward and told him what I have been telling him for a long time.congratulatio bros for telling the truth.

I still remember that you have criticized me many times for my tiny typing mistake about alcohols ; have you started to drink recently? If not then what is different between the word drink and drunk? Simple is this if any one not drink then how he can become drunk?
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agakhani said :

Quote:
I still remember that you have criticized me many times for my tiny typing mistake about alcohols ; have you started to drink recently? If not then what is different between the word drink and drunk? Simple is this if any one not drink then how he can become drunk?


No agakhani bhai, I don't drink....I never have and never will
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just kidding brother , but thanks for more clarification. The scholar like you never think to drink.

Do you know the names of that Ismaili couples who just killed? or murdered? or killed themselves?
Can you give me some more detail?
I think you may know more because they were used to live in Sugar Land, Texas.
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shiraz.virani wrote:
Sheri said :

Quote:
"drunk" is the key word here. Please look up the definition of "drunk", then re-read and reflect.

It is against the IMAM's farman to drink and smoke. But being "drunk" is a sin in Islam.

So for ismailis smoking is also going against the IMAMs farmans. MHI has made many farman on smoking and drinking in the "precious gems" as well.


Ohhhh acha....So going against the firman of MHI is ok for you ?? If YES, then why act as if it is only MHI's opinion that matters the most to you ???..If you drink occasionally then its ok for you but if are addicted or get drunk then that's a sin, Does that even make sense ???...Does quran specify upto how many ML is halal ???


Sheri/Shiraz -

I am actually against advocating drinking all together. However, one would find references [or rather analogy] to wine in the Holy Qur'an.
I completely understand that reference to wine in the following ayah is entirely allegorical and has metaphorical intent, but nonetheless, wine is used as opposed to anything else. One would wonder.


"A Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised:
in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which
the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who
drink
; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for
them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord."

- Holy Qur'an 47:15
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a_27826



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 321
Location: Da es salaam

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tret wrote:
shiraz.virani wrote:
Sheri said :

Quote:
"drunk" is the key word here. Please look up the definition of "drunk", then re-read and reflect.

It is against the IMAM's farman to drink and smoke. But being "drunk" is a sin in Islam.

So for ismailis smoking is also going against the IMAMs farmans. MHI has made many farman on smoking and drinking in the "precious gems" as well.


Ohhhh acha....So going against the firman of MHI is ok for you ?? If YES, then why act as if it is only MHI's opinion that matters the most to you ???..If you drink occasionally then its ok for you but if are addicted or get drunk then that's a sin, Does that even make sense ???...Does quran specify upto how many ML is halal ???


Sheri/Shiraz -

I am actually against advocating drinking all together. However, one would find references [or rather analogy] to wine in the Holy Qur'an.
I completely understand that reference to wine in the following ayah is entirely allegorical and has metaphorical intent, but nonetheless, wine is used as opposed to anything else. One would wonder.


"A Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised:
in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which
the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who
drink
; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for
them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord."

- Holy Qur'an 47:15


037:045-047 (righteous people) shall be served with cups from a spring, white and delicious to those who drink, wherein there is no sickness nor intoxication
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is against the IMAM's farman to drink and smoke. But being "drunk" is a sin in Islam.

So according your above comments it is OK to drink as long as you stay sober and not get drunk!!??
Well, I do not agree with your above comments In Islam is quoted haram whether you drink moderately and occasionally or you get drunk everyday. period.
Long time ago I was thinking that way but now I believe it was my mistake.
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