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Pork/drinking/smoking???
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koosh



Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:56 am    Post subject: Pork/drinking/smoking??? Reply with quote

I would like to know some question

1. Why don't ismailis eat pork?
2. If ismailis are not to drink or smoke why do they do this and think it's of

I just want to know these two question
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ismailis do not eat pork as it is haram in Islam and it is forbidden in Quran to eat pork or pig.

Similarly some ismailis [not all but few] also smoke or drink which is very wrong and against religion but there is Nasha in bear,wine, alchohol etc so they can not leave it easily if they have used it before .
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:22 pm    Post subject: I have my own opinion of this Reply with quote

Sorry but I have to disagree with star_munir

Ismailies do not eat pork because their Imam has instructed them not to because it creates animal desires in our hearts

Ismailies do not drink or smoke because their Imam has instructed them not to, as it harms the body and the person cannot do Ibadaat and achieve salvation.


All other reasons I dont care to waste my time with.

Shams


Last edited by shamsu on Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes drinking wine ,eating pork etc is not allowed in Ismailism because of Faman but not only ismailis but all muslims think wine and pork as haram
because this is in Quran and hadith.
Imam has said what is in Quran in His Farmans.
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ONiazi



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Deerfield, IL, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assalamu aleikum min Maula Hazir Imam!

Here's another perspective on why Muslims are commanded not to eat pork, drink alcohol, etc.

Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin writes in "How To Be a Jew" that the origin of the laws of "kashrut" ("kashrus" in Ashkenazi Hebrew)--the laws of pure and impure, including the dietary code that forbids the eating of pork--was to separate the House of Israel (Beit Yisrael in Hebrew, Bani-Israeel in Arabic) from its pagan neighbors. He also writes that the Biblical commandments were not issued to protect the Jews' health - they were issued to emphasize that they were a separate, chosen people, separate from the other nations, and chosen by God. Obedience to the commandments is done not to be healthy but out of fear and love of God. (Rabbi Shneur Zalman goes very deeply into this obedience out of fear and love of God in his "Likutei Amarim".)

Similarly, one may say that there is an element of this regarding to prohibitions against pork and alcohol.

Concerning some Qur'anic commandments, there is a clear reason why they were issued. Practices such as female infanticide, immorality, the eating of dead animals, etc., were and are simply plain wrong. In this way, the Qur'an places a moral obligation and code upon Muslims. However, if the Qur'an wanted to be health-conscious, it could stipulate edicts such as drinking alcohol only until one comes to loose his/her inhibitions, or that pork should not be eaten unless it's cooked well, or that one should solely beseech God when using divining rods. Perhaps--and this is a theory--the Qur'an came forth with such unquestionable commandments to separate the faithful Muslims--who are separate from dar-ul-harb and its inhabitants, and chosen by God--from the non-believers.

Thus, Muslim distinguish themselves by abstaining from pork, alcohol, and adhering to certain slaughtering practices. They were ordered to do so to keep themselves separate from the rest of the world, and obey not because it benefits their health necessarily but because they fear and love God, and seek to obey Him. (Both Jews and Muslims believe that the believer is blessed for obeying God's commands, and that blessing is reason enough to obey them, health and personal benefits notwithstanding.)

Just a theory that occured to me. I will not attempt to explain the motivation or reasoning behind the farmans of the Hazir Imams. Only the Hazir Imams and those authorized by Them are able to do so. (May blessings and peace shower upon the beloved Hazir Imam and His followers!)

Maula hafiz,
Omayr
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mhimani



Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Edison, NJ

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this article on the web and I think it will help you understand the reasoning behind not eating pork: "http://eng.islam.ru/lib/pork/"
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alattar



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about the ismaeli communities who traditionnally smoke hasheesh, in Pakistan or Afghanistan ?<BR>Is hasheesh forbidden by the Holy Qur&#39;an ?
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nagib



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alattar wrote:
what about the ismaeli communities who traditionnally smoke hasheesh, in Pakistan or Afghanistan ?<BR>Is hasheesh forbidden by the Holy Qur&#39;an ?


All of the Farmans that we know say that anything to do with drug is forbidden in our faith. Including Farmans of the present Imam made in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

In one Speech or interview, the present Imam has explained that Alcohol destroys the intellect of man. And he said that in this regard, anything that destroys the intellect of man, which is the biggest ood given gift, is forbidden. I don't have the exact quote but this is the gist.

Nagib
======================
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:23 pm    Post subject: Not eating pork, drinking or smoking! Reply with quote

I love the people that go out and find scientific reasons behind why we don't eat pork..i had one ismaili once tell me that in olden days pigs carried germs and illnesses but they don't know so they should be okay for us to eat...
or the smoking arguement..i remember as a child hearing farmans of MSMS in jk about smoking and it's hazards to health..and this was before it was directly linked to cancers.

my response to all those who say pork is now cleaner than ever before..and other such arguements is ..that when we gave baiyat..we gave tan..man and dhan to imam...he says no pork..means no pork..no questions..no arguements..no nothing..we follow him unconditionally as we promised.
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karimqazi



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 78
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad

"that when we gave baiyat..we gave tan..man and dhan to imam...he says no pork..means no pork..no questions..no arguements..no nothing..we follow him unconditionally as we promised."
-ShamsB-

Bravo! What an excellent point. I hope this will end an arguement about consuming pork, drinking alcohol, doing drugs,and smoking.

May Mowla bless you all.
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_thaillestlunatic_



Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 179

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent point shamsB, keep up the good work

May Mowla bless you all
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:21 am    Post subject: Pigs and Humans Reply with quote

I was thinking about this last night..and i remember researching this a while back out of my own curiousity...
and i might be opening a can of worms...but this is just an observation on my part..no flames please!

For those amongst us that are diabetics or heart patients we should know that insulin comes from pigs..or used to..as do heart valves for human heart patients...
how come it is that i can't take my kidney and put it in another human being without sufficient testing and ensuring there is a biological match..but i can take insulin and heart valves from a pig and put it in a human body...
this speaks to the genetic compatability of humans and pigs...so shouldn't pork consumption come close to cannibalism?
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heartbreakkid



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some ismailis do bcoz they r ignorant... our imam e zaman made is crystal clear when he said



Our belief is that the thing which separates man from the animals is his power of thought. Anything that impedes this process is wrong. Therefore alcohol is forbidden. Sunday Times interview 12 Dec. 1965

-- Aga Khan IV


What has been called the permissive society, where anything goes, nothing matters, nothing is sacred or private any more, is not a promising foundation for a brave and upright new world. [Speech 30 Nov 1967]

-- Aga Khan IV
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5812

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This section is named Ginan so please keep discussion under control on what would be the references in ginans about the subjects else there are other section on pork, drinking etc... please post under appropriate section.

if you are posting under the ginan subject heading and the discussion has nothing to do with ginans, it will be moved at some point and you will all be thinking it has been deleted.

Admin
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah had reminded that Pir Sadardin has said in Ginans to stay away from drinking. Imam also reminded that in Anant Akhado, also it is mentioned to stay away from drinking.

Last edited by star_munir on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19005

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

star_munir wrote:
Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah in his Farman of 3-4-1893, in Bobmay, had reminded that Pir Sadardin has said in Ginans not to stay away from drinking.


You mean 'to stay away' and not 'not to stay away'
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I mean to say "to stay way". Thanks for correcting
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nadirshabu



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:57 pm    Post subject: smoking/ drinking/ or eating pork in islam Reply with quote

HERE IS A INTERESTING VIDEO THAT MIGHT HELP YOU OUT WITH THE PORK EATING PART. AS TO THE DRINKING AND SMOKING YOU KNOW BETTER FROM YOUR MIND THAT ANY SMOKE AFFECTS LUNGS BADLY AND LEAD YOU TO LESS LIVING TIME PERIOD. SO WHY SHOULD YOU TAKE THE RISK. AGAIN HUMAN IS DUMB IN A BASIS THAT EVEN AFTER THEY KNOW SOMETHING WILL HURT THEIR BODY BADLY THEY STILL WANT TO TRY IT. AND DRINKING IS SAME AS TO FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER EVERY CUP OF ALCOHOL KILLS 30,000 BRAIN CELLS.
INSHALLAH EVERYONE IN THIS LIFE STOPS THIS NONSENSE ACT OF HARMNESS TO ONES BODY.
ENJOY THE VIDEO!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGgIaErLTfw
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:47 am    Post subject: I bet you didn't know this reason? Reply with quote

Interesting video clips.
However this subject is already discussed before , please click the link below for more detail and more scientific reasons.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=239&highlight=pork
There are too many scientific and heath wise reasons discussed so far, but
let me tell you one important religious reason now, why Muslims should not eat pork? I bet you don't know this reason, which I intentionally avoided in above link but let me put it here because it seems that most readers doesn't know this important religious reason which is called zina in Islam.

During the time of sexual intercourse for any female pig "many" male pigs gathered together and circled the female pig and they all sexually intercourse with female pig one after another, which is totally against Islamic principal and it is called zina in Islam now eating meat of such hatred animal may be her bad sexual nature and habit enter in our body, therefore pork is prohibited in Islam, zina consider big sin in Islam.
congratulations, if you knew this reason before my this post.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For interesting reader I would suggest one book to read this book give more detail why we should not eat pork? this book is written by well known missionary Rai Abu Ali, the name of this book is "Why Pork is Forbidden in Islam"? He beautifully explained why pork is forbidden in Islam? with Islamic perception and islamic view and also he give some scientific and religious reasons why pork is not good for us?. You can check this book in your local J.K. library and if it is not available then you can ask your local Tariqa Board to arrange this book for you.
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AsadALLAH



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When i was a kid i remember watching The Learning Channel (TLC)
and there was an episode on pigs. I remember a guy pouring a can of Coke on a live pig and waited maybe like 3-5 mins and after that, worms/maggots started coming out from the pig. Also, they say "You are what you eat" It's self explanatory why we don't eat such and animal.

One more thing to add...I don't think you can slaughter and animal if it doesn't have a neck.

I found this on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2eEw26J0z8
[/url]
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eating exceesive Pork over period of time is one of the main cause of anal/rectum cancer in Humans.

The highest numbers of cases are reported per capita from Taiwan,which is incidentally very high per capita pork eating country.

There are many many reports to be found with search word in google 'pork n anus cancer'.
Googlers get active. icon_wink.gif
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a_27826



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 321
Location: Da es salaam

PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AsadALLAH wrote:
When i was a kid i remember watching The Learning Channel (TLC)
and there was an episode on pigs. I remember a guy pouring a can of Coke on a live pig and waited maybe like 3-5 mins and after that, worms/maggots started coming out from the pig. Also, they say "You are what you eat" It's self explanatory why we don't eat such and animal.

One more thing to add...I don't think you can slaughter and animal if it doesn't have a neck.

I found this on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2eEw26J0z8
[/url]



002:173 These things only has He forbidden you: carrion, blood, the flesh of swine, what has been hollowed to other than God. Yet who so is constrained, not desiring nor transgressing, no sin shall be on him; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

005:003 Forbidden to you are carrion, blood, the flesh of swine, what has been hallowed to other than God, the beast strangled; the beast beaten down, the beast fallen to death, the beast gored, and that devoured by beasts of prey - excepting that you have sacrificed duly -- as also things sacrificed to idols, and partition by the divining arrows; that is ungodliness.

6:145 Say: 'I do not find, in what is revealed to me, aught forbidden to him who eats thereof except it be carrion, or blood outpoured, or the flesh of swine -- that is an abomination -- or an ungodly thing that has been hallowed to other than God; yet whoso is constrained, not desiring nor transgressing, surely thy Lord is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.'

016:115 These things only He has forbidden you: carrion, blood, the flesh of swine, what has been hallowed to other than God. Yet whoso is constrained, not desiring nor transgressing, God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.


so it seems no reason was stated in the quran for forbidding eating pork meat.

but the reason for forbidding wine, and arrow-shuffling is given, though not specific (ambiguous)

002:219 They will question you concerning wine, and arrow-shuffling. Say: 'In both is heinous sin; and uses for men, but the sin in them is more heinous than the usefulness.'

005:091 Satan only desires to precipitate enmity and hatred between you in regard to wine and arrow-shuffling, and to bar you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer. Will you then desist?
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sheri



Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does the answer to this question imply? Specifically "But this, to me, is not a puritan prohibition........there is no pressure being placed on me by my religion."


Could you explain the Muslim attitude to drink? Isn't that, perhaps, puritanical?

"Our belief is that the thing which separates man from the animals is his power of thought. Anything that impedes this process is wrong. Therefore alcohol is forbidden. I have never touched alcohol. But this, to me, is not a puritan prohibition. I Don't want to drink. I've never wanted to drink. There's no pressure being placed on me by my religion."
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a_27826



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 321
Location: Da es salaam

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sheri wrote:
What does the answer to this question imply? Specifically "But this, to me, is not a puritan prohibition........there is no pressure being placed on me by my religion."


Could you explain the Muslim attitude to drink? Isn't that, perhaps, puritanical?

"Our belief is that the thing which separates man from the animals is his power of thought. Anything that impedes this process is wrong. Therefore alcohol is forbidden. I have never touched alcohol. But this, to me, is not a puritan prohibition. I Don't want to drink. I've never wanted to drink. There's no pressure being placed on me by my religion."


Maybe Imam means whatever is harmful is "haram" and what ever is helpful is "halal"

Imam and Allah knows the best
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sheri



Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, I understood it to be: This is NOT a religious prohibition. My religion does not restrict me from drinking alcohol. I just don't like drinking it, because it is not good for me.

Any thoughts?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5812

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he clearly means that Alcool consumption turn a man into an animal so does it matter if the prohibition is religious or humanity based?
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a_27826



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 321
Location: Da es salaam

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sheri wrote:
Basically, I understood it to be: This is NOT a religious prohibition. My religion does not restrict me from drinking alcohol. I just don't like drinking it, because it is not good for me.

Any thoughts?


Imam said its "prohibited" and gave reason for it.

Regarding "no pressure being placed by the religion", this might mean "there is no compulsion in religion"
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sheri



Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"But this, to me, is not a puritan prohibition." This translates into "But this, to me, is not a religious prohibition"

Puritan = religious

So, essentially Imam is saying that it is not a religious prohibition. Isn't it?

a_27826 wrote:
sheri wrote:
Basically, I understood it to be: This is NOT a religious prohibition. My religion does not restrict me from drinking alcohol. I just don't like drinking it, because it is not good for me.

Any thoughts?


Imam said its "prohibited" and gave reason for it.

Regarding "no pressure being placed by the religion", this might mean "there is no compulsion in religion"
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sheri



Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it makes a difference. If it is not a religious prohibition, then it does not result in sin?

Admin wrote:
I think he clearly means that Alcool consumption turn a man into an animal so does it matter if the prohibition is religious or humanity based?
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