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Prophet Muhammed would often lead the prayers when he was with his jamat and I'm pretty sure the early Imams did as well.

Why is it that when MHI comes for didar, he doesn't lead the prayers?

Once the Pir and Shah are seperate individuals, I believe you will see this happen.

shamsu wrote:Once the Pir and Shah are seperate individuals, I believe you will see this happen.

Imam Aga Ali Shah MaaBaap(SA) as Pir Aga Ali Shah MaaBaap (SA) often came to Wadi Jamat Khana and led the dua with the Jamat.

Shams

this is an ineresting question.
does hazar imam have the same prayer as we perform?
how can hazar imam pray to him self?
hence how can he join us in prayers?
he can join in an eid namaz .

Ya Ali Madad To All,

First of all, this question made me very sad.
We give bayat to Hazir Imam he is our Pir Mursheed, our tahriqa is bateini tahriqa (baten no deen dil na undhar parvar no che) this means that the esoteric faith you have to do in your heart. Now if you give bayat to Hazir Imam, you have to follow him or take your bayat else where. Period.

te ali ne tame sahi allah kari sajdo karo cho to ame poochye chyye
ke ame kone sajdo karye (Imam Hassan Ali Shah)

may mowla bless you all and enlighten your lives

Dear may i ask u what a teacher is supose to do in at kg,or primery level and what are the teachers expection at mastets level at university ? do u feel any difference in teachers role in these two level? if u do then tell me at university u r given assingments which u have to complete by ur self or not? its a matter of common understanding if u feel that u r thirsty for knowleged then u should read books on islmailism specialy study book about concept of imamat

Ya Ali Madaad,

clickscape wrote:Prophet Muhammad would often lead the prayers when he was with his Jamat and I'm pretty sure the early Imams did as well.

Why is it that when MHI comes for Dedaar, he doesn't lead the prayers?

ShamsB wrote:

shamsu wrote:Once the Pir and Shah are seperate individuals, I believe you will see this happen.

Imam Aga Ali Shah MaaBaap(SA) as Pir Aga Ali Shah MaaBaap (SA) often came to Wadi Jamat Khana and led the dua with the Jamat.

Shams

Prophet Muhammad use to do Namaz and often use to lead Jamat... it was for people to make them learn and understand importance of prayers….. Do you think he needs to declare faith in Himself as messenger of Allah (check basis Kalama)? Do you think he didn’t knew he was the prophet of Allah or did Ali wanted to tell himself that he is master of all believers… do you think Ali didn’t know he is master of all believers Or Do you think Imam needs to prostrate himself! Then why are we for?… one of the purpose of creating Adam was to make him Prostrate and thank Allah.. It’s Allah who teaches first and let us follow later. Like when you buy a new machine the manufactures or dealer gives a demo or a booklet to make u learn and understand its uses so that you get best result and it may benefit you.

Recently I had a chance to see Hazar Imam in Paris. I was with fellow Ismaili and Mowla greeted us with a smile and Ya Ali Madad. For us HE is Ali then how come he calls Himself for help?

Just check recent news… check activities of Imam of last month you can easily see the amount of activities Imam does, I can't imagine working a week continuously without break and look Imams activities he is one day in east and other day in west these are his activities since long time….. Do you still want him to lead prayer? Since few years Ismaili community has been respected all around the world and it’s not because of us individuals but the amount of Imam Activities.

Imam knows better were to lead us…. 150 years ago Ismailis did prayer with Imam leading them or not, today also we do prayer but the dignity and respect we enjoy today was not enjoyed by our elders….. This is the biggest difference I think Mowla has made…. When we needed spiritual support HE helped us and when we need material dignity he is leading us.

Shah Je Dedaar
Zubair

clickscape wrote:Prophet Muhammed would often lead the prayers when he was with his jamat and I'm pretty sure the early Imams did as well.

Why is it that when MHI comes for didar, he doesn't lead the prayers?

I think so far the best answer you have received is from

ShamsB wrote: Imam Aga Ali Shah MaaBaap(SA) as Pir Aga Ali Shah MaaBaap (SA) often came to Wadi Jamat Khana and led the dua with the Jamat.

Everything else is just their-own interpretations. To tell you the truth I don't have an answer for you. May be perhaps the answer is with in The Imam's farman where He tells us for Zikar because the pressures of modern-day lives can make it difficult to attend JK and may be He does the same...

Ya Ali Maddad,
MHI doesn't need for prayer; Because HE is himself the complete intellect. He has reached to the highest level of the knowledge and certainty.
Once Shams Tabrizi walked in the middle of the sea and ordered Rumi to follow him. And also told him to say" Ya Shams". Rumi followed him and didn't sink in the middle of the water. immediately he heard that Shams was saying" Ya Ali" and Rumi began to say Ya Ali. Shams saw that Rumi was drowning. Shmas said" come on and follow me" after that he saw that Rumi was saying" Ya Ali". Shams was provoked and said," Don't say like that".
Rumi said," I heard that you were saying Ya ALi; I began to say like you." Shams answered," Don't imitate me. You haven't reached to the rank of Shams yet, and the rank of Ali is very high to reach it."
We are like Rumi and MHI is like Shams. He guides us and orders us to practice to rescue our lives from misleading. He has already reached to the highest rank and orders us to practice just for reaching to our origin. MHI is like Khidhr and we are like Moses. Thus the Holy Quran States how Khidhr guided Moses and when he acted Moses objected on his action and just told Moses to keep silence. We should keep silence and don't object on MHI. He is our spiritual master and we are not his spiritual leaders to educate him the intellect. See this Ayat of the Quran what it tells to you
sura 036.012
Verily We shall give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before and that which they leave behind, and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence). Wa kulla shayen ahsayna'u fi Imamen Mobeen.
Be carefull

nowroozalisabiti wrote:Ya Ali Maddad,
MHI doesn't need for prayer; Because HE is himself the complete intellect. He has reached to the highest level of the knowledge and certainty.
Once Shams Tabrizi walked in the middle of the sea and ordered Rumi to follow him. And also told him to say" Ya Shams". Rumi followed him and didn't sink in the middle of the water. immediately he heard that Shams was saying" Ya Ali" and Rumi began to say Ya Ali. Shams saw that Rumi was drowning. Shmas said" come on and follow me" after that he saw that Rumi was saying" Ya Ali". Shams was provoked and said," Don't say like that".
Rumi said," I heard that you were saying Ya ALi; I began to say like you." Shams answered," Don't imitate me. You haven't reached to the rank of Shams yet, and the rank of Ali is very high to reach it."
We are like Rumi and MHI is like Shams. He guides us and orders us to practice to rescue our lives from misleading. He has already reached to the highest rank and orders us to practice just for reaching to our origin. MHI is like Khidhr and we are like Moses. Thus the Holy Quran States how Khidhr guided Moses and when he acted Moses objected on his action and just told Moses to keep silence. We should keep silence and don't object on MHI. He is our spiritual master and we are not his spiritual leaders to educate him the intellect. See this Ayat of the Quran what it tells to you
sura 036.012
Verily We shall give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before and that which they leave behind, and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence). Wa kulla shayen ahsayna'u fi Imamen Mobeen.
Be carefull

nowroozalisabiti, It sound like we are turning the subject into Imam is God and that is that I disagree with. Since we are talking about the imams and examining into past (history) we must look at Imam Ali's life and it is filled with Ali praying to God.

nowroozalisabiti wrote: We are like Rumi and MHI is like Shams. He guides us and orders us to practice to rescue our lives from misleading. Be carefull

One..we are nowhere like Rumi..not even a million miles in Rumi's league.
and two - Mowlana Hazar Imam is not like Shams...he is the ALI that SHAMS was referring to. Remember Shams Tabrez was not the Imam of the time.


Shams

I agree with u shams.... when I first read it I also thought same but its just example on one can match Rumi or Shams Tabrez .... or .............. that’s just examples to make ppl understand...