Ginan with Future Prediction

Discussion on ginan meanings, history etc..
Admin
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Post by Admin »

Nuseri, your position is not tenable. Hazar Imam said we have to preserve these Ginans which you so much denigrate, for generations to come. This is exactly what we are going to do. regardless of what your reliable al-waez told you.

I would appreciate that this debate does not come personal and I will delete any message trying to lower the prestige and sanctity of the Ginans.
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Admin:

I eered in info given to me by a haqiqati momin,who is not an Al Waez but hasown info n contacts.

It is two ginan book of 105 small Ginans including 5 Qqasidas in it.It is 210 and not 101,becoz(I AM SORRY) he also gets info from via sources like you and me.THE one with qasidas,I have seen with my own eyes.

I am not against Ginans but the Quantity of it's floating.

Lesser the Traditional material,lighter the Shariati or Zahiri baggage.

If you are a father would your son in primary school to like to carry say 20 books on same subject? just becoz your father and his father carried it.He will start bunking the school.It is a ground reality.

As there were many pirs and Syeds,we could have say over 50 Ginans(overlapping one's) on describing the' anticipated Didar of the Imam' to it's follower.If 5 of the best ones is retained,the essence does not dilute.
There a elderly lady in our Jamatkhana,she has a divine voice and loves Ginans,singing it from last 50 years.
I tell her aunty aap yeh yeh ginan bolo.I like listening to you.She said to me Beta you are first person since last 50 years who has requested me and I fell honored and she had tears in her eyes

Out of say 7 ginans I do like,the two on top are :

Eji ALI bolo ALI bolo muniwar bhayee.

and har dum maula mara Didar mahe rehjo jee

many Ginans stir my souls and I can give it's Baatin meaning.

In out faith quality is important not the quantity.becoz with quantity
come 1000 of views ,debates and ill feeling.

The truth is is easier to remember ONE WORD,then to read, memorize,understand(depending on the level blessed upon) over say 10000 verses.

THIS IS A RARE BEAUTY OF OUR TARIQA.
REST CAN BE TRADITIONS.

I hereby rest my case unless provoked.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

Ginan means knowledge. Limiting knowledge is the last thing I would wish humanity to undergo.

Each and every Ginan has something different and something special. It is a wonderful tradition and Mowla willing, it will stay a wonderful tradition for milleniums to come.
agakhani
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Post by agakhani »

Admin,
Let me give more information on ginans:-
* The word ginan comes from a Sanskrit word "gyan" means knowledge.
* There are almost 650 printed ginans available now a days.
* Some Ismaili ginans are also in possession of Imam Shahi sect.
* There are Five other sects besides Imam Shahi sect, which have some Ismaili ginans in their possession composed by Pir Shams, however these sects are not practicing on Ismailism any more.
1, Nizar Sect ( Ram Dev Sect)
2, Athia Sect
3, Nath Sect
4, Bishnoi Sect
5, Ai Ma Sect
* Besides ginans there are 70 different Shahstra and Granths available.
* Ginans contains information on almost all subjects pirs has been not left any subject untouched.
* There are 60 different ginans on only one subject Meditation
( Bandagi/Ibadat) Wow!!!

* There are still many unpublished ginan's manuscripts preserved in following three location:-
1, Ismaili Tariqa Board of Pakistan in Karachi
2, The Institute of Ismailis Study London (IIS)
3, The Howards University.
* Mukhi Lalji Devraj has played big roll in the collection of Ismaili ginans he collected ginans from Sind, Kathiawad and Gujarat and from Imam Shahi sect.
* Ginan name Das Avatar composed by Pir Sadardin has played big roll in Haji Bibi Case in favour of Aga Khan III.
* The last ginan was composed was Syeda Imam Begum.
* Ginans are an alphabets and first step to climb on our Tariqa for any age person (not only kindergarten student) therefore not only 50, 101, 200 ginans are sufficient but all available ginans are necessary to read for all the times, Ginans were important in past ginans are important right now and ginans will be remain important for future generation.
* Once SMS told that if Jamats follows as per the hidayat's of ginans given by pirs then I have no need to make any Farmans!!
* Current Hazar Imam Shah Karim says Ginan is a wonderful tradition and he listens ginans daily in his Aiglemont office
That is it for now.
* You can not find any where that how this Universe was created first? not in Bhajans, not in Hindu scriptures and Puranas not in Bible or in Qasidas but you can find these information in our ginans Wow!!
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Brother Agakhani.

Firstly I Googled and got info that creation of universe is described in Koran, Zarathustra religion book and 7 other books of faith.

Marifat is not by a RIGHT of a heavy or clever reader of traditional books and of religious books.

It is out of practice of Zikr, Aasique and Khidmat.

Marifat is an ABSOLUTE privilege and blessing of ALI to whom he wishes to bestow it.(aame jene chahsu tene baksh shu,Ee tamaro Haqq nathi)

In words of Hazrat Shams al Tabrizi.

INTELLECT CAN GET YOU TO THE DOOR OF THE HOUSE BUT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO ENTER IT.

Just by reading of 100 books at Zahiri level has much lower value than ONE password blessed by ALI.

Caring unwarranted burden of traditions say 130 years back was akin to a ignorant donkey caring that burden .What Imam SMS said
sternly even stand mostly true today also.

A couplet to end it:

DUA GIRYAZARI SEE MILENGE JYAADA REHMAT ALI KI MOMINO

EELAM SE HUME AAYENGA JYAADA IMAAN ALI PE MOMINO.

ZIKR,AASHIQUE AUR KHIDMAT SE MILENGA KHUD HUME ALI SAARA.
agakhani
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Post by agakhani »

Firstly I Googled and got info that creation of universe is described in Koran, Zarathustra religion book and 7 other books of faith.
Great!! now can you please tell me how old this universe is? What Quran say? What other 7 books say? googled., google this again in Quran, Zarathusta or even Hindu Purans, I bet you won't able to find this information any where brother but yes in Ginans you can find it!, and if you able to find how old this universe is? Even in any religios book then lease put it here.
Now back to the creation of this universe; you say you read 7 other books!! that is good, let me ask you this, didn't you noticed that these all books are saying different story about creation? one book say something different the books say something different even Quran and Bible do not match with each other as long as creation of this universe is concerned. not only 7 or 10 but I tried to find out this facts in more than 100 books but til today I am not able to find it but thanks to our great pirs and their ginans in which you can find this and many other hidden facts which science still not find yet.
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Agakhani.

I did NOT mention the word read and wont do any heavy reading for futile issue.
I wrote I got basic info on typing 5 seach word (out of search result pages).

This topic heading covers future predictions in which you over understood or out of ignorance made a cocktail of explosive Doomsday precise time ,the nuke button will go off.

To cover this folly you termed it a Zahurat as both are contradictory.Your
shallow knowledge on history n composition of ginans and period and then
target audience of Pirs,you refered Ginans of anticipating n glorified future
Zahiri Didars of the Imams as Zahurat.

ONE disastrous FITNA kept leading to other misleading or shallow point of views to save one' folly.

Zahiri level of understanding Ginans the and presuming it differently to suit one
cleverness is like creating fitna and eating grass and missing fruits of our beautiful Baatin Tariqa,which
is immensely blessed in understanding sweet ,light and simple few lines out of Farmans and Zikr.

Excessive reading stresses the limit and patience of a human brain and memory storage which keeps junking along with the age of the body.

You may try reading 'WajaheDin' by Dai Nasir Khusraw to know what is spiritual intellect.Before that you must know the secular education of the
Dai also in that time in what all fields he was educated upon.

I am personally to be honest not a heavy reader as too much reading a like making Dahi kachumber of Dimag and make statements which may make one ending up as a over read and definitive fool amongst different level of readers knowledge.

GYAANI KO SHAYAD KHUDA MIL SHAKTA HAI

SACHE AASHIQUE KO KHUDA MIL HI JAATA HAI.
agakhani
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Post by agakhani »

Forget about every thing give answer of my question; I repeat it here again how old this universe is? I am not in hurry take your time as long as you want either you search it online or read books or try to find out the answer from qasidas or Nasir Khushru's any book particullary wajah-e-din or Mr, Hunzain's books but I bet you sorry brother . You are just wasting your time cuz you will not find that how old this universe is any where bro, for the answer you have to read our wonderful tradition as describe by our MHI and this tradition is "GINANS" my buddy.


When you don't have answer then you should be quiet and accept ginans as all source for every thing.

And yes I read all books of Nasir Khusraw not only "Wajah -E-Din, safarnama and many more but these books are just books , in this books is not any prediction and this is our topic this thread , in my opinion books are just ordinary books nothing new and I of course know what is roll of "DAIS" in. my thinking 'DAI IS ONLY DAI NOT A PIR.
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To brother Agakhani.
To you question on how old is the universe? I am not trying to find one.
Is this verse recited in jamatkhanas and Has Any Imam has refered this verse or endorsed this verse.

Pirs has used figure of lakh chorayasi,nobody know how this figure was landed upon.Anything aproved is not a word of God but of a inspired sufi.

The word Pir can be of Persian or Hindustani origin,before that title in Arabic word of Dai was used.

In India, Pakistan and Bangladesh there are Dargahs of many Pirs in hundred.It is a word still used for Learned muslim holy man.

The legacy of Nasir Khusraw has flourished since last 1000.

It has over time delivered around 20 million haqiqati to marfati momin
with glow of light on face from birth.

This also from a sparsely populated region of the world.noy many left the faith inspite of acute poverty(poverty can move a person easily from faith), no jamatkahanas in communist rule
or even physical presence of iman over 1000 years.
That was the infinte beauty of Qasida and Farmanbardari.

While we Khojas with trade and commerce skill and present and Didars of Imam since few centuries have had sad history till silver jubilee of Imam SMS.
If we calculate 750 years at population growth rate of 4% per year.

It comes to just 160 in simple rate and if we compound it yearly it come just 24only thru thier progeny stuck to siratal mustakim.

It is sad truth of depletion over centuries.

I am sure over 12 pirs and sayyeds composed ginan in numbers and did
woderful pirantan work then.

The biggest culprit in this was the baggage of traditons,which succeeded in micro percentage.

No wonder Hazar Imam is enriching the Jamat with Qasidas,what has delivered and cutting to size on ongoing basis baggage of traditions which delivered rather little n still many struggling at Tariqat level.

As for Nasir Khusraw, he is refered as Sayyedna,Dai ,Hakim and Pir
He is referred as Pir by Jamats in Badakshan.

Hazar Imam has referred him as Sayedna in his speech on foundation laying
ceremont of Dushanbe Ismaili center. and placed him as great poineer amongst Ismaili Thinkers over and above Ibn sina, Farabi and Al Kindi.

Has Hazar Imam taken names of Pirs in any speeches in any ceremonies of new Ismaili centers in Khoja traditions areas?

Hazar Imam picks and chooses his word perfectly.

I always get fascinated by it and try to study it.

In classical english vocabulary the word Wonderful is before a word which
has a shelf life i.e holidays, dress, place, college life, some experience of sort.
For Qasida ,He is said in Farman it being of 'Very Important.'

Now make a phrase with that word,it goes on till eternity.

Your irrevocable opinion on Qasidas in past and now as a joke.
is exactly opposite to Hazar Imam s Farmans.

The forum must know who is the Satan, a Hindu masking as a Khoja.

KHOTE ILAM AUR GUSSE SE INSAAN SHAITAN BAN JATA HAI
AAP TO IMAANI HO,ALI KE ALFAZ KO MAAN AUR SALAMI DO.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

Half knowledge is dangerous

Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah has referred to the word "Lakh Chorasi." If you have problems with our Imam's farmans, he has said you can leave the faith but you can not reform it.

No I will not give you the reference. Please do some research before posting. Start reading Farmans and some ismaili books. You will have a fair idea of our faith.

When Imam says Ginans are for generations YET to be born, your concept of shelf life is already kaput ab initio.

There is also an ismaili definition of Pir in the sense of "Satadhari Pir" and in the Ismaili definition which is the names of Pirs recognised (by the Imam) in the Old Dua. The Pir in our definition is not a "sage", he is the Imam Mustawda, the highest Hujat ul Imam. Hazrat Hasan was the Pir, he was the Imam Mustawda. Shah Karim is the Pir also and he also combined the status of The Imam.

When Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah appointed Shah Karim as Imam and Pir of ALL Ismailis, he did not appoint Shah Karim as Pir of Khojas as you seems to think not did he appoint him as a sage.

To say there are thousands of Pirs is same as to say there are millions of Imams in all the Masjid and it to equate our Imam to some of these preachers. This is not knowledge, this is mockery of the Ismaili faith. The term Imam in Ismailism is not used for a person conducting ceremonies in Masjid, it is used for the Manifestation of the Noor.

There is no problem with Qasidas, those written by our Imams are respected even by Khojas, as having the status of farmans because they are written by the Imams. Those written by poets of today and yesterday be they ismailis or Sufis or even Ithnashris are much more like the present day Geet and Mowla ji Shaan. We love them because they glorify our Imam, but they are not like Farmans. They do not have the status of Imam's Qasida.

Some of the postings we we are reading above are expected on non-ismailis web sites and in anti-Ismaili web sites, they are not expected from Ismailis posting on an Ismaili website.

Last but not least, I don't want to see any posting targeting names of any person that post and I don't want to see any personal dispute here or I will start deleting accounts.

www.ismaili.net
Share The Knowledge!
agakhani
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Post by agakhani »

Please note that and this is for forever that; I don't oppose the qasidas, I never said that matter of facts Qasidas are also important in our religion, our few imams had alos wrote Qasidas in past, but my main concern was and still is, you cannot find any detailed informatiom in specific topics in Qasidas; for a example how to sit in Bandagi?, how to start Bandagi?, how this universe was created? what was the main reason of this creation? how old this universe is? how many other universes is in this galaxy? how this universe will be destroyed? How many Adams were?these all informations has been beautifully described in 'ginan-e sharif" only thing you need to do is read ginans so, basically ginans are superior than everything else including qasidas and other literatures composed by Dais, but wait!!! that doesn't mean I don't like Qasida or don't listen it or read it, I do listen it with respect.
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Admin:
I appreciate your reply on word Pir,I was defining the word not the status.

I am aware that in Ismaili Imamat, It is a title which is revered and blessed akin to sainthood and same as Hujjat Dai during Fatimid era.

I am pleased to see two Haqiqati momins defending Ginans with passion and vigour,Same should be spirit.If it was me ,I would have butchered any outsider speaking against Ginans without reasoning.

What is have written about our history is true and out of my heart.
Fact and figures speak for themselves.
It is the primary reason,why I dislike and vocally critical of unwarranted baggage of our traditions.It does not mean one being an anti Ismaili.

Truth needs to be known to all in our community from top to down who are in denial frame of thoughts.

I personally love,cherish and advocate our Sufi traditions of our faith
in which we just to understand need few word or lines from Imams to to be blessed.

Our Tariqa is very true ,light in practice n understanding and visible
with glow of light.It will be THE only Faith standing on this planet earth when Shariat of all religions is abolished.

For many centuries traditions were more honored n valued than Tariqa for many reasons then.
If I speak honestly you feel grumpy because truth does pinch a Momim
who has passion and love for Ginans.

In very second posting on the forum,I addressed you as a pillar strong Momin,but after observing you, I feel you are a Rock solid Momin,because
pillars can crumble under movement of earthquake and not the mountains.

If you delete my account it's fine,At Marfat one has to live with 100% truth and no diplomacy.

HUM TO ALI KE AASHIQ AUR VAKIL HAI.
AAP NARAZ HO YA KHUSH WO AAP KI SAMAJ
AUR AAP KA IMAAN.
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