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Ginan with Future Prediction
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atharvedi



Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Another reference Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
Amir,
Are you sure? about "THAWAR RAT"? as per my understanding ""Thawar rat" means Thursday night"but I will recheck it again tonight.


Another reference from someone you know.

Eji Dhan dhan rahenni aaj nu din ralliaamann-ji
dhan saa beej, chandr thaavar vaariaa;
rang rachaav-jo
hete sun rang rachaav-jo;
ghatt paat dharam-j maanddiyaa,
so he je imaan laav-jo 1



1. O my brother! Congtatulations! Congratulations! Tonight and today’s pleasant day.
Congratulations for the Beej which falls on Chandrat and Friday. Rejoice for Chandrat and Friday are favorable days.
Celebrate lovingly, the ritual of Ghatpat is set up. Believe sincerely.

Source: 50 Ginans Volume III – Translation 37 August 1996
Translation by: Yasmin Sher Ali, Kamaluddin Ali Muhammed
Prepared by: Zarina Kamaluddin, Kamaluddin Ali Muhammed
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2061
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Below are some sources where I find meaning of Thawar Rat as Thursday not Friday:-

1, As per the " Ananat Akhado" most reliable Ginan on "Zahurat" , the menaing of Thawar Rat is given as Thursday.
2, I also asked same question to one senior, she has lots of knowledge in ginans and its meaning she also gave me meaning "Thursday" of Thawar Rat.
3, The waez name Daint Kalinga and in many other waezes of Rai Abu Ali he has also given meaning of Thawar rat as "Thursday evening."

I don't know how the translator of above ginan gave meaning as Friday?
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atharvedi



Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Thaavar raat confusion Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
Below are some sources where I find meaning of Thawar Rat as Thursday not Friday:-

1, As per the " Ananat Akhado" most reliable Ginan on "Zahurat" , the menaing of Thawar Rat is given as Thursday.
2, I also asked same question to one senior, she has lots of knowledge in ginans and its meaning she also gave me meaning "Thursday" of Thawar Rat.
3, The waez name Daint Kalinga and in many other waezes of Rai Abu Ali he has also given meaning of Thawar rat as "Thursday evening."

I don't know how the translator of above ginan gave meaning as Friday?



Ginan: aaveene besone gotthaddee kareeye

ejee cha(n)dar thaavar gat maa(n)he jaago
paa(n)ch padaarath a(n)tar maa(n)go..........................7


Stay awake on the night of the new moon on Friday (beej), in the congregation,
and ask for the five essential virtues in your hearts.

I checked both Anant Akhaaddo & translation as well as Naw Chugaa & translation for the following words thaavar, thaawar, Thursday & Friday. I Searched with all sorts of combination but did not find any of the above word. According to my understanding and what I can recall from missionary Abualy Aziz's waez. That the predictions about Imams' zahuraat is not in one single ginan, in fact he mentioned that it is like jigsaw puzzle. Some common clues are in few ginans repeatedly reminded but the missing clues are in various different ginans and these are very difficult to find and understand.

He did explained in his waez regarding the zahuraat but not with the ginanic references, may be for few he did but never mentioned where and which ginan or granth he found all the mentioned predictions in your post.

Back to the confusion of thaavar raat the only thing comes into my mind that it must be similar to the urdu way of saying ie. jumme-raat and jummaa (Thursday & Friday).

But thaavar is definitely Friday, this can be understand with the above verse.
chandar means Chandrat
thaavar means Friday
chandar thaavar means Chandrat falls on Friday hence shukrawaari beej.

The beej cannot be on Thursday as per above and other ginans.

If you or anyone else got some other ginanic reference then I would love to check.

Ya Ali Madad
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have any objection not to accept that Zahurat day will be not Friday , which ever day it may be Amir, "zahurat "has to start either day , either t will be Thursday or on Friday but bottom line is it will start.

Thanks for sharing the ginanic proof.

I also add the link in which you made translation of "Jake Pachham Des ne" , it is a good ginan and great translation on the subject of Zahurat, sorry I forgeted before.

FYI:- I haven't taken the above information only from waezs and ginans, however most of information are from them but I also read many books from different religions too and you know that I have many
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MR-FORGET



Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mr-Forget,

There are many ginans on this subjects but ‘ANANAT AKHADO” of pir Hasan Kabirdin,'Budhh Avatar' of Pir Sadardin,'FART NEJA TAMBAL VAJSE" ginan of Dewayat Pandits and 'JAKE PACHHAM DESH NE KHAND ERAK MANHE" of pir Shams are great granths and ginans on the war between Daint Kalinga and our Imam.


Mr. Agakhani,

Thanks you very much for your time and efforts for giving brief summary on "Zahurat" , your efforts really needed big praise from me, It will save lots of time. Thank you again.

* Where can I find "Mr. Daiant Kalinga" waez?

* Who made translation of this ginan "Jake Pachham Des Ne Khand Erak mahe:?
Quote:
Imam may be get minor hurt but he will be OK, he will win this war against communism.( heard from waez)

* Can you give more detail about this hurt?
* I am still confused about Thawar Rat, does it mean Thursday or Friday as Mr. Atharvedi says?
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atharvedi



Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:

Thanks for sharing the ginanic proof.

I also add the link in which you made translation of "Jake Pachham Des ne" , it is a good ginan and great translation on the subject of Zahurat, sorry I forgeted before.

Please note the translation of the ginan I shared in the other post was not done by me, it was done by sevenlights one of the member of ismailinet forum.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Please note the translation of the ginan I shared in the other post was not done by me, it was done by sevenlights one of the member of ismailinet forum.


Thanks for the correcting till today I was thinking that you made that translation.
Sevenlights did a good job then.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2061
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where can I find "Mr. Daiant Kalinga" waez?


In waez section of Ismaili.net website.

Quote:
Who made translation of this ginan "Jake Pachham Des Ne Khand Erak mahe:?


Sevenlights, according brother Atharvedi.

Quote:
Quote:
Imam may be get minor hurt but he will be OK, he will win this war against communism.( heard from waez)

* Can you give more detail about this hurt?


This information also given in one waez of Rai Saheb, I don't know the exact waez # of that waez and where it was delivered but if I hear again then I will write here.

Quote:
I am still confused about Thawar Rat, does it mean Thursday or Friday as Mr. Atharvedi says?


I am not sticky person like others who stick on their thoughts and never change it, even some one prove them wrong. Believe me, there are many in this forum, so, I would not mind if you take it as Friday as per brother Atharvedi, he quoted some ginaninc references which seems quiet right or if you count as a Thursday as I wrote above, it doesn't matter, either day Zahurat has to start.
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MR-FORGET



Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The meaning of Thawar = is Saturday, according Sanskrit, Pakrit, Hindi and Gujarati (OLD) dictionaries, in new dictionaries "Thawar" word is deleted for some reasonb may be because it was very old word and nobody uses it now a days! who knows?
But Mr. Abu Ali has given meaning of thawar rat as Thursday night (JUME RAT) in his one waez, the waez number is 218 and title of the this waez is
'Kayamat" , A great waez by Mr. Ali on the subject of "Zahurat" I strongly recommend to listen to those interesting readers who has interest in zahurat.


Last edited by MR-FORGET on Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input, it will be more helpful if you kindly tell me the year and name of publishers of above dictionaries?
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MR-FORGET



Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Agakhani,

These dictionaries may be out of print because as per the librarian it was printed long time ago, and therefore he reserved for ' LIBRARY USE ONLY' you can't borrow it, sorry I don't know which year they were published because I never thought that some one ask me the year of publication, but you can look in your local libraries it may possible that you may be able to find there.
Please PM if you still need the names and years of these publication I will check it for you and let you know when I go in library next time. And also, if librarian alllowed me to copy that page then I will do it for you.
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xignifye



Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 27
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is one ginan where pir have mention year, month, day clearly step by step and how it will happen and the date also of every event .......but the thing which confuses me is the year. I am not sure if the pir has said that year according to Hindu calendar or muslim calendar......but i have calculated the estimate date year n month ( i not sure that is why i won't share any dates)

here is the link of ginan if anyone has translate then please share, that way i can match my translation n dates.

ginan : http://ismaili.net/ginans/transcription/part5/bhg5-100.html
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xignifye,

If you read the information which I posted above then you may have find the answer of your question, anyway I am posting same info below for your quick reference:-

1, The day will be Thursday (called as 'THAWAR RAT' in our ginans.)
2, The date will 7th.
3, The time will be evening (actually after 4.00 p.m.)
4, Nakshatra: Rohini
5, Month as per Hindu calender : Chaitra
6, Year will be 2115, (Gregorian year, As per one waez of Rai Abu Ali.
7, The name of Imam : Kassam Shah.

"Aashaajee Khaddag kudratee apurav chhaaje
Nar Kaasam Shah vaae-jee
paanch nadee rann khetr mulastaan rache-she
tyan daeent kaaleengaa-ne ghhaae-she....Haree anant."..29
8, Countries will involve in this War: almost every country during that time
but main will be Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, China and Russia.

http://ismaili.net/ginans/transcription/part5/bhg5-100.html

The link provided by you doesn't related to 'Zahurat' not at all brother but it tell a story of pir Sadardin and pir Hasan Kabirdin's Iran visit to meet Imam Islam Shah (s.a.) this great ginan also shows many dates and year It also tell us why and how the great ginan"Ananat Akhado" was written? why the title of 'ANANAT KARODI" given to pir Hasan Kabirdin. Actually it is a big story but let me put it here in short for your information:
Once Pir Sadardibn was going to Iran, his son Pir Hasan Kabirdin was only four and a half years old at that time, pir Hasan Kabirdin also wanted to go with Pir Sadardin. Pir explained his son that he was too small to go through all those hazards of travelling. The child disappointed and brokenhearted withdrew. The Divine favour stopped and Hazrat Pir Sadruddin went blank as if an iron-curtain was drawn between him and the Lord. This shows that Hazrat Pir Hasan, though a child, was a favoured servant of God and exalted spiritually. The "iron curtain" was drawn on the 17th day of Asadh month in the Vikram year 1452, and it was removed after 6 months and 6 days, on the 23rd day of Poss month in the same year. Gur Pir Hasan writes that he was five years and five days old on the day of resumption of the Batuni Deedar to his father. This means that he was born on the 18th day of Poss month in the Vikram year 1447. that is 1391 C.E. or 792 A.H.


The date and years mentioned in above ginan are as per Hindu calendar but sorry this ginan has nothing to do with 'ZAHURAT' not at all.
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MR-FORGET



Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
http://ismaili.net/ginans/transcription/part5/bhg5-100.html


Above ginanic link doesn't say any thing about zahurat. It is a story of Pir Sadardin, Pir Hasan Kabirdin's visit to Iran to meet Imam Islam shah.
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zohaibdhukka



Joined: 24 Oct 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

000

Last edited by zohaibdhukka on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have many waezs of Abu Ali, so it is hard to point out that particular waez at this time, but I can tell you this; the date, time and year had been given in one waez delivered in SugarLand Jamat Khana by Rai saheb so, if you know any one from Sugar Land then ask if any one have this waez, meanwhile this is my practice to keep listening all waezs again and again so, if I will keep eye on that particular waez and hopefully I will put it here more detail.The date and day may not exactly match because it is predicted on the basis of Lunar calender and Lunar calendar is 11 days shorter than Gregorian calender:- but I want to make sure for myself too so, will you please give me the website address where I can check the date and days?
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link.
Can you tell me how you choosen month April?
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1379

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not have much info on Ginans.

The particular verse of prediction in a Ginan:

1.Is this Ginan still recited or in circulation?

2.Has the interpretation of it done by the Imam or a mortal person?

As I am given to understand,that many Ginans verses DEEMED to be important were frequently asked by then Bhagats n Leaders to Imam SMS then.

Has this verse has opinion,statement or endorsement of Imam SMS or other Imams?

This info will help to read the verse later on.and participate on it's debate.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1.Is this Ginan still recited or in circulation?


Yes, most ginans are still reciting in JK. However there are many ginans which contains detail about future prediction so, basically it may not possible that all ginans can be recited in JK.

Quote:
2.Has the interpretation of it done by the Imam or a mortal person?


Interpretation has been made by well know missionaries, Al- waezins, authors and scholars.
Not only this but Imam Ali Shah (s.a.) and Sultan Mohammad Shah (s.a.)and other Imam also has mentioned about "ZAHURAT" many times in their farmans and hidayats as well,and most of religion waiting for it, so basically it will happen soon or later even if someone doesn't accept above interpretation made by missionaries and scholars.

FYI:- In my opinion an ordinary person can not make any interpretation because first of all it is very tough to understand and very hard to find out in which ginan these detail is available?! Why? Let me give you an example; the day of Zahurat is given in one ginan, the date is given in different ginan, the year has been given in another ginan, the name of Imam is given in Anant Akhado one detail is given by one pir the other detail is given by other pirs, ordinary man like me and you can not make any interpretation because we do not have that much time and patience .
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1379

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Agakhani:
Your answer to first question it totally WRONG.In a court of Law i.e If a person is asked ‘Did you see it?’. Answer required is in yes or no and NOT somebody may have it and somebody may not have seen.It does stand any ground.You are cunningly as ever with dual login Id has tried to hide the truth.

Haqiqat momin who has great knowledge on faith and one person attaches in our religious board and firmly
Answered that this particular verse related in segment of Ginan is not recited in any Jamatkhanas.It has been under strict guidance of Hazar Imam is confined to history for good.

You cannot fool all the people all the time.

Saints and Sagas of the past who performed miracles got carried away and exceeded their brief gave
A future fancy date for Doomsday. Nothing has happened till date.They are looked as FOOLs now.

Only ALI can determine say that not a mortal soul and not even blessed Prophets.

We here have a greater saint(Missionary not Pirs) ,who is interpreting the precise time, date,place, countries and year, when it will quasi doomsday, over exceeding the power of God himself . Haa Haa Haa

As for Zahurat,It is a surety in which we Ismailis we start our roles.
Zahurat will be MOST MOST MOST blessed day on earth and Definate not be a quasi Doomsday.Any child will answer that

Only a fool or his advocate a greater fool will think it other way.

I was told that Imam SMS ordered burning of some segment Of Ginans due to some over learned Khojas
Of Karachi then.Please answer in one word ,Is is true or False?

There is speech made by Hazar Imam and one of subject covered was on environment.
In the last paragraph,the following lines are ther. Enmass change of Faith and message end with future shock is upon us. ( both lines are not interrelated)

ALI KAHETA KUCH HAI.

SHAMJATA DOOSRA KUCH HAI.

AUR KARANA CHAHTA HAI AUR BAHUT KUCHHAI

MAI ALI TO MANU KE EK ‘RAI’ KE DANE KO.

TUM JISO MANO WHO TUMARA IMAAN.

TUMARA IMAAN TUMHE MUBARAK

HUME HUMARA ALI MUBARAK.


To Admin: I have 12 more serious questions,which I feel should NOT be on the open forum.I do even wish
To be person to see that verse or Ginan.My Zulfiqar is ready for Finality ,if any
Please advice wisely
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 4730

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Nuseri,

I suggest you read a little bit more about ginans as your knowledge of that subject is very shallow and half knowledge is dangerous. One should refrain of posting on subjects that he does not understand. For example your knowledge on some verse that Sultan Muhammad Shah ordered destroyed is wrong, if you do not know the whole story, who were the people concerned, which were the verses and if SMS really said this, you should not start posting on this without thorough research.

If your remaining 12 questions are in the same direction, better restrain yourself from posting up to after you research the subject matters.

As I said any post which is misleading (either on purpose or unknowingly) will be deleted. Personal messages also will be deleted, so will this message be delete in a couple of days

Admin
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1379

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to Admin:
Ya ali madad.
You are right my info on Ginan at zahiri level is not much.That I why I am not active on this section,but somebody has speak the TRUTH,if one's posting is incorrect or it carried away by one's presumed knowledge.

I have asked a question heard by me in prson about something,it was not a firm statement or my point of view.

I was told it about misunderstanding by over learned and stubborn Khoja on a verse of 'hari thi harivar motha' in series of Manhar Granth section of ginan,it was withdrawn with stern words from Imam SMS.

This is info given to me.Please let me know the know the whole truth,if what I heard is in correct.

I must congratulate your SITE heartily,somebody who knows me an Ismaili
heard a Alwaez very recently giving 2 mainas ( from my posting ending with Ahmed as signature) definately learned from this SITE,which was
not known to many in all Ismaili traditions since last 1400 years.We are delivEring in the right quarters,It is the wish of ALI happening.

I am on your site for a Agenda and not for debating and slandering if provoked.
You have deleted many of my posting,some were 100% truth in it.It is JUST not FAIR,One's of slandering were required to be deleted.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
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Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your answer to first question it totally WRONG.


How? are you going JK? are you listening ginans? if yes then I am pretty sure that you may have listened below ginans in JK.

1, Pachham thi Shahna Dal Aavshe,
2, Setardwip ne Khand Erak mahe
3, Hansapuri Nagarima mandavo rachayo
4, Farat Neza Tambal Vagse chadiya dev nirinjana
5, Eji Dul Dul Ghode Sacho sami rajo chadse

The above ginans are on "Zahurat" This is not it I can write almost 100 ginans here which are directly mentioning about 'Zahurat'. Do you need more? how many more you need? So don't tell that my answer was wrong.


Quote:
I was told that Imam SMS ordered burning of some segment Of Ginans due to some over learned Khojas
Of Karachi then.Please answer in one word ,Is is true or False?


It is totally wrong, who told you that? not a single ginans of any pirs has been order to burned not even Syed Imam Shah or Syed Nur Mohammad shah ( who proclaimed him self as "Nar" as a Imam ) but their ginans are still reciting in JK.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to Admin:
why have you deleted my post(reply) to above posting done few hours before.
It was not any matter of abuse?
It was reply to the ginan verses written 750 years back ,ON how to anticipate Didars of Imam later to new converts as Imam were staying in Persia then and/would travel on horses and caravans from west to east.It was differentiating between a many Didars,which Khojas got in later period and till date,it was not on Zahurat.

understanding the period,the profile of listeners then Ginans were composed.

Please also throw some light on Karachi incident during Imam SMS period.Why feel shy on it.

even at Haqiqat level the truth is at 67% and falsehood isat 33%.

Why should a faithful be afraid of 100% truth.If it is not true the bloggers
n you are pointing it out n debating.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is shy "Nuseri" .. please do not be insecure to the point that everyone seems wrong and that you feel compulsion in always be in the defensive.

Some People told SMS that Granth Man Har contains a passage which says that the believer is higher then God.

Harithi Harijan Mota

Kamadia Jan was preaching this in Mumbay. He was wrong. This does not make all the Khojas wrong or less Imani and people of other background right and more Imani.

Obviously whoever did not understand that the word "thi and thaki" were used interchangeably by Pirs in the past misunderstood the meaning of the verse like some are doing here constantly and so much as I have to periodically delete them on the subject of ginans and lohanas and khojas.

The next verse said "Hari trigounr, harijans trigounr nahi" which means God has the 3 knowledge but the believer does not have the 3 knowledge. So obviously God was considered supreme in this Granth.

SMS said if the Pir wrote that the believer is higher than God, burn that book. Obviously Pir never wrote this. But some "dodh daya" who did not understand what Imam said started preaching that Imam said to burn Man Har Granth, even when they died and came back again in a new birth, still they restarted preaching the same...

No, Imam never said burn Man Har Granth, he said "IF" it contains... the condition was not completed.

I have even recently heard chapters of the Granth recited in Jamatkhana. Thanks God, not everyone has misunderstood SMS.
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin,

Thanks for the explanation about misunderstanding for "Manhar Granth", I heard in in waez but detail was not given thanks again, is any way I can have a copy of this granth? an e-mail copy will be just fine. My e-mail is agakhani underscore 78660 at yahoo dot com if you be kind enough to give some time from your busy life.

One humble request if you decide to delete someone's post which you think it is inappropriate then you can delete it, it is up to you but but please live at least couple of days so that every body can read it, for instant example, I would have loved to read Nuseri's answer of my above post but unfortunately I can not now because it is already deleted so obviously I don't know what Nuseri had wrote in his answer of my post? according him 'it was not any matter of abuse'! it might be informative to me who knows now!?

Nuseri,

If you do not mind then will you please e-mail your answer at above stated e-mail address?, I will highly appreciate if you kindly do this after all I like to know what was your non abusable answer and why Admin deleted it? I am a still student I like to know anybody's comments whether I believe it or not.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1379

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Admin:
If you wish,you can email the deleted posting to Agakhani.

As for the manhar granth.I have confirmed with person of knowledge.
It was two persons from Karachi Jan and Abdualah.

Imam SMS did used the word to burn it,In reality It was not burned but totally WITHDRAWN by then board/association.

IF somebody is reciting a verse from it,is either ignorant or defiant.
There are currently just 101 Ginans (out of over 600) approved by our board for recitation in Jamatkhanas

Even doomsday nuke button verses is not there.

One Alwaez with passion of Ginans, did give his opinion,which I feel is having somebody with more knowledge than Imam.
I have already said that in precise doomsday prediction.

Ginans,according to me is too many Pirs/Syeds wrote too many Ginans, whether to out do each other then?
A child in kindergarten need few poems(not 600) to enter the school test,then the school syllabus was always there made by the Dean.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 4730

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your source for Man Har Granth's history is unfortunately ignorant. Blind following blind would not lead anyone very far. Try to find a variety of opinion and then only form your opinion. Verify for example with al-Waez Salim Moosa whose grand father was in the group of Kamadia Jan, he knows some of the history kept in his family and and gave a good briefing about kamadia Jan and what happened in the Man Har matter at the SOS Khojki Conference in Toronto in 1991.

Man Har is a very simple subject. No ginans have been banned. If any alwaez tells you here are only 101 ginans approved to be recited, I would tell you he is not an Ismaili alwaez.

At least in my opinion, whoever is trying to abrogate Imam's Farmans on Ginans has already in his heart cancelled his Bayat. This kind of people just stay in our faith to mislead others.

I beg you to search a little bit deeper. tell this alwaez, I am saying that no ginan has been banned and if he preached anything different, he is misleading the Murids of the Imam and his place is not in our community.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1379

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Admin:
Very stern reply.anyway expecting it.
Please note the incident heard from from a third party does not stand ground to both of our point of view.

My info is very reliable that there are 101 ginans for recital all of them printed by the religious board of our country.

Please note word withdrawn does not mean it being banned.

The Ginans not kept for recital are not banned,they are very much there for history and academic referrals.

There are 100 of farmans that our faith is one of Sufism and Baatin,where
not 600 Ginans with 6000 verses is needed ,But ONE WORD FROM ALI or the word ALI itself.
KHUDA KE ALFAZ SAHI HAI KE NAI WO,HAMARE IMAAN PE CHORD DO.

All others forms are like eating dry or juicy grass.

Ali may be pushed into as a plaintiff here,but he is judge up there to evaluate one's Bayaat or mischief.

In your very word:
Why be so Judgemental?

I take all your opinion formed for me in stride.

YAAR ASHIQUE ALI PE JYAADA KARO.

TARAFDARI GINAN USEE THODA KUM.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2061
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are 100 of farmans that our faith is one of Sufism and Baatin,where
not 600 Ginans with 6000 verses is needed ,


I would prefer to read all 600 available ginans not only 100 ginans printed by Ismaili Association for Cananda, even more if possible in future.
I have not found any farmans of any Imams so far in which any Imams has instructed us not to read all 600 ginans! (Once upon a time there were thousand and thousands ginans but unfortunately most of ginans are lost ) as we are discussing here that not a single ginans has been banned or restricted not to recite in JK, I already gave an example of Syed Nur Mohammad shah, he proclaimed his self as "Imam" which is against our tariqa but his ginans are still reciting in JK ginans are the first step to reach on the top of our faith and reach till the marifat so remembering or reciting only 100 ginans is not a wise decision, not for me at least as a ginan lover in my opinion If some one want to made progress in baatini then he/she must have to have read all ginans especially composed on for batini progress like "Brahm Prakash", Buj Niranjan, Sakhi mara Aatam na othar e.t.c. and other ginans teaching us for Shariya, Tarikat and Hakikat so not a single ginan is worthless. There are many ginans which are specially composed on Sufism.
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