Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: Another reference
agakhani wrote:
Amir,
Are you sure? about "THAWAR RAT"? as per my understanding ""Thawar rat" means Thursday night"but I will recheck it again tonight.
Another reference from someone you know.
Eji Dhan dhan rahenni aaj nu din ralliaamann-ji
dhan saa beej, chandr thaavar vaariaa;
rang rachaav-jo
hete sun rang rachaav-jo;
ghatt paat dharam-j maanddiyaa,
so he je imaan laav-jo 1
1. O my brother! Congtatulations! Congratulations! Tonight and today’s pleasant day.
Congratulations for the Beej which falls on Chandrat and Friday. Rejoice for Chandrat and Friday are favorable days.
Celebrate lovingly, the ritual of Ghatpat is set up. Believe sincerely.
Source: 50 Ginans Volume III – Translation 37 August 1996
Translation by: Yasmin Sher Ali, Kamaluddin Ali Muhammed
Prepared by: Zarina Kamaluddin, Kamaluddin Ali Muhammed
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 1139 Location: AUSTIN, TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:55 am Post subject:
Below are some sources where I find meaning of Thawar Rat as Thursday not Friday:-
1, As per the " Ananat Akhado" most reliable Ginan on "Zahurat" , the menaing of Thawar Rat is given as Thursday.
2, I also asked same question to one senior, she has lots of knowledge in ginans and its meaning she also gave me meaning "Thursday" of Thawar Rat.
3, The waez name Daint Kalinga and in many other waezes of Rai Abu Ali he has also given meaning of Thawar rat as "Thursday evening."
I don't know how the translator of above ginan gave meaning as Friday?
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: Thaavar raat confusion
agakhani wrote:
Below are some sources where I find meaning of Thawar Rat as Thursday not Friday:-
1, As per the " Ananat Akhado" most reliable Ginan on "Zahurat" , the menaing of Thawar Rat is given as Thursday.
2, I also asked same question to one senior, she has lots of knowledge in ginans and its meaning she also gave me meaning "Thursday" of Thawar Rat.
3, The waez name Daint Kalinga and in many other waezes of Rai Abu Ali he has also given meaning of Thawar rat as "Thursday evening."
I don't know how the translator of above ginan gave meaning as Friday?
Ginan: aaveene besone gotthaddee kareeye
ejee cha(n)dar thaavar gat maa(n)he jaago
paa(n)ch padaarath a(n)tar maa(n)go..........................7
Stay awake on the night of the new moon on Friday (beej), in the congregation,
and ask for the five essential virtues in your hearts.
I checked both Anant Akhaaddo & translation as well as Naw Chugaa & translation for the following words thaavar, thaawar, Thursday & Friday. I Searched with all sorts of combination but did not find any of the above word. According to my understanding and what I can recall from missionary Abualy Aziz's waez. That the predictions about Imams' zahuraat is not in one single ginan, in fact he mentioned that it is like jigsaw puzzle. Some common clues are in few ginans repeatedly reminded but the missing clues are in various different ginans and these are very difficult to find and understand.
He did explained in his waez regarding the zahuraat but not with the ginanic references, may be for few he did but never mentioned where and which ginan or granth he found all the mentioned predictions in your post.
Back to the confusion of thaavar raat the only thing comes into my mind that it must be similar to the urdu way of saying ie. jumme-raat and jummaa (Thursday & Friday).
But thaavar is definitely Friday, this can be understand with the above verse.
chandar means Chandrat
thaavar means Friday
chandar thaavar means Chandrat falls on Friday hence shukrawaari beej.
The beej cannot be on Thursday as per above and other ginans.
If you or anyone else got some other ginanic reference then I would love to check.
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 1139 Location: AUSTIN, TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:00 am Post subject:
I don't have any objection not to accept that Zahurat day will be not Friday , which ever day it may be Amir, "zahurat "has to start either day , either t will be Thursday or on Friday but bottom line is it will start.
Thanks for sharing the ginanic proof.
I also add the link in which you made translation of "Jake Pachham Des ne" , it is a good ginan and great translation on the subject of Zahurat, sorry I forgeted before.
FYI:- I haven't taken the above information only from waezs and ginans, however most of information are from them but I also read many books from different religions too and you know that I have many
There are many ginans on this subjects but ‘ANANAT AKHADO” of pir Hasan Kabirdin,'Budhh Avatar' of Pir Sadardin,'FART NEJA TAMBAL VAJSE" ginan of Dewayat Pandits and 'JAKE PACHHAM DESH NE KHAND ERAK MANHE" of pir Shams are great granths and ginans on the war between Daint Kalinga and our Imam.
Mr. Agakhani,
Thanks you very much for your time and efforts for giving brief summary on "Zahurat" , your efforts really needed big praise from me, It will save lots of time. Thank you again.
* Where can I find "Mr. Daiant Kalinga" waez?
* Who made translation of this ginan "Jake Pachham Des Ne Khand Erak mahe:?
Quote:
Imam may be get minor hurt but he will be OK, he will win this war against communism.( heard from waez)
* Can you give more detail about this hurt?
* I am still confused about Thawar Rat, does it mean Thursday or Friday as Mr. Atharvedi says?
I also add the link in which you made translation of "Jake Pachham Des ne" , it is a good ginan and great translation on the subject of Zahurat, sorry I forgeted before.
Please note the translation of the ginan I shared in the other post was not done by me, it was done by sevenlights one of the member of ismailinet forum.
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 1139 Location: AUSTIN, TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:26 am Post subject:
Quote:
Please note the translation of the ginan I shared in the other post was not done by me, it was done by sevenlights one of the member of ismailinet forum.
Thanks for the correcting till today I was thinking that you made that translation.
Sevenlights did a good job then.
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 1139 Location: AUSTIN, TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:52 am Post subject:
Quote:
Where can I find "Mr. Daiant Kalinga" waez?
In waez section of Ismaili.net website.
Quote:
Who made translation of this ginan "Jake Pachham Des Ne Khand Erak mahe:?
Sevenlights, according brother Atharvedi.
Quote:
Quote:
Imam may be get minor hurt but he will be OK, he will win this war against communism.( heard from waez)
* Can you give more detail about this hurt?
This information also given in one waez of Rai Saheb, I don't know the exact waez # of that waez and where it was delivered but if I hear again then I will write here.
Quote:
I am still confused about Thawar Rat, does it mean Thursday or Friday as Mr. Atharvedi says?
I am not sticky person like others who stick on their thoughts and never change it, even some one prove them wrong. Believe me, there are many in this forum, so, I would not mind if you take it as Friday as per brother Atharvedi, he quoted some ginaninc references which seems quiet right or if you count as a Thursday as I wrote above, it doesn't matter, either day Zahurat has to start.
The meaning of Thawar = is Saturday, according Sanskrit, Pakrit, Hindi and Gujarati (OLD) dictionaries, in new dictionaries "Thawar" word is deleted for some reasonb may be because it was very old word and nobody uses it now a days! who knows?
But Mr. Abu Ali has given meaning of thawar rat as Thursday night (JUME RAT) in his one waez, the waez number is 218 and title of the this waez is
'Kayamat" , A great waez by Mr. Ali on the subject of "Zahurat" I strongly recommend to listen to those interesting readers who has interest in zahurat.
Last edited by MR-FORGET on Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total
These dictionaries may be out of print because as per the librarian it was printed long time ago, and therefore he reserved for ' LIBRARY USE ONLY' you can't borrow it, sorry I don't know which year they were published because I never thought that some one ask me the year of publication, but you can look in your local libraries it may possible that you may be able to find there.
Please PM if you still need the names and years of these publication I will check it for you and let you know when I go in library next time. And also, if librarian alllowed me to copy that page then I will do it for you.
there is one ginan where pir have mention year, month, day clearly step by step and how it will happen and the date also of every event .......but the thing which confuses me is the year. I am not sure if the pir has said that year according to Hindu calendar or muslim calendar......but i have calculated the estimate date year n month ( i not sure that is why i won't share any dates)
here is the link of ginan if anyone has translate then please share, that way i can match my translation n dates.
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 1139 Location: AUSTIN, TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:12 am Post subject:
xignifye,
If you read the information which I posted above then you may have find the answer of your question, anyway I am posting same info below for your quick reference:-
1, The day will be Thursday (called as 'THAWAR RAT' in our ginans.)
2, The date will 7th.
3, The time will be evening (actually after 4.00 p.m.)
4, Nakshatra: Rohini
5, Month as per Hindu calender : Chaitra
6, Year will be 2115, (Gregorian year, As per one waez of Rai Abu Ali.
7, The name of Imam : Kassam Shah.
"Aashaajee Khaddag kudratee apurav chhaaje
Nar Kaasam Shah vaae-jee
paanch nadee rann khetr mulastaan rache-she
tyan daeent kaaleengaa-ne ghhaae-she....Haree anant."..29
8, Countries will involve in this War: almost every country during that time
but main will be Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, China and Russia.
The link provided by you doesn't related to 'Zahurat' not at all brother but it tell a story of pir Sadardin and pir Hasan Kabirdin's Iran visit to meet Imam Islam Shah (s.a.) this great ginan also shows many dates and year It also tell us why and how the great ginan"Ananat Akhado" was written? why the title of 'ANANAT KARODI" given to pir Hasan Kabirdin. Actually it is a big story but let me put it here in short for your information:
Once Pir Sadardibn was going to Iran, his son Pir Hasan Kabirdin was only four and a half years old at that time, pir Hasan Kabirdin also wanted to go with Pir Sadardin. Pir explained his son that he was too small to go through all those hazards of travelling. The child disappointed and brokenhearted withdrew. The Divine favour stopped and Hazrat Pir Sadruddin went blank as if an iron-curtain was drawn between him and the Lord. This shows that Hazrat Pir Hasan, though a child, was a favoured servant of God and exalted spiritually. The "iron curtain" was drawn on the 17th day of Asadh month in the Vikram year 1452, and it was removed after 6 months and 6 days, on the 23rd day of Poss month in the same year. Gur Pir Hasan writes that he was five years and five days old on the day of resumption of the Batuni Deedar to his father. This means that he was born on the 18th day of Poss month in the Vikram year 1447. that is 1391 C.E. or 792 A.H.
The date and years mentioned in above ginan are as per Hindu calendar but sorry this ginan has nothing to do with 'ZAHURAT' not at all.
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