blak clothes ???

noorani_786 · Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 22 Location: Tx

Shams,

I thought batuni is the gujurati translation for spiritual. If not, then what is the english transalation of batuni and the gujurati translation of spiritual?

Nizar

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

Zaheri=Exoteric

Batuni=Esoteric

Roohani=Spiritual

noorani_786 · Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 22 Location: Tx

Thanks Shams!

alinizar313 · Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 112

WE should understand that our faith is Batini. Inspite of that it must be remembered that what is apparent should reflect what is inside otherwise it will represent "Munafiqat" (Hypocracy). If it is not true then there is no need of Kiryas in our faith as that are all Zaheri or allogerical which takes you to the inner meaning of that particular event. Black symbolizes Ignorance. In my opinion the antonyms (opposite)of Ignorance is white and it means peace or 'Shanti'. It says in Quran "WA ADKHIL NAA DARUS-SALAM" means admit us in the house of peace. Therefore it is preferable to wear white or light colour clothes in JK so that it will remind us to enter in the house of peace. (Peace itself is our Lord as said in Quran "Allah homa ya mowlana enta salam" means Oh Lord you are Peace.)
Now I would like to quote one incident regarding white clothes in JK. It was in 1974 when Amir Ali Fancy, president of Federal council ( now it is known as National council) visited JK of Amynabad colony Hyderabad Sind Pakistan And I myself was present there. He amazed to see the discipline of Jamat as almost every member of jamat was in white clothes with cap on their head including ladies member in white clothes with white dupaata on their head. He conveyed the same to Hazar Imam. Hazar Imam sent a Taliqa to that Jamat saying that I am deeply impressed with the simplicity and discipline of Amynabad Jamat. Tell them that I am very pleased to your Jamat and other Jamat should follow the steps of Amynabad Jamat in simplicity and discipline.
You know how do they go for Aab-e- Shifa. They do not stand up all together like our Jamat but by rows Or you can say like first come first serve.

aminL · Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 84 Location: Toronto

Here is proof that Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah did not like the color black:

Mowlana Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah had made the following holy Farman to the ladies at Karachi, in 1920:

"Why have you come here in front (of me) wearing black clothes? It is not good (for you) to come to jamatkhana wearing black clothes. You must have read my Farmans I had made in Zanzibar about it. I am not happy at allto see you here in such (black) and expensive dresses.'

Here is proof the Prophet of Allah did not like the color black

There is also a Hadith of the Holy Prophet saying that the emimies of him and the Ahl-Bait will be wearing black clothes:

"The sign of our enemies will be that they will wear black clothes."

Here is proof that Sha Karim does not like the color black:

Once Mowlana Hazar Imam, Shah Karim, was visiting the Darkhana at Dar es Salaam. As he was climbing the stairs he noticed that the Mukhi, Najmudin Kassam Dewji, who was just behind the Imam, had put on black socks. Mowlana Hazar Imam cautioned him: " Mukhi you are wearing black socks here?" The Mukhi immediately removed the socks and followed his Mowla bear foot.

Mowlana Hazar Imam had sent the following holy Farman to the jamats of Pakistan:

"The aforementioned matters are universal and binding principles of Islam and must be followed by all Muslims, for indeed these principles were established by Prophet himself."

Ornaments and colourful clothing, in a simple and decent manner are allowed in Islam. But the Holy Prophet has forbidden Muslims to wear the clothes dyed with a bark known as Kusm. Kusm is boiled in water in an iron pot until the water turns deep black. Then the clothes are put in this water and kept boiling till the required colour appears on the clothes.

In India a bark known as gali or gardi is used for this purpose. In olden days there was no other proper dye, except gali, to dye- garments black. In our Ginan, the mureeds are forbidden to go to jamatkhana wearing such clothes, dyed with gali:
"O dear! Cast off clothes (dyed) with gali;
Do not go to the place of worship dressed in such clothes.
The angels avoid such people,
Therefore, my brother, discard clothes of gali."

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

BLACK IS COLOR OF MOURNING
OF ENEMIES SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO WEAR BLACK??

REALLY UPSETTING TO SEE INGORANT ISMAILIES WHO WEAR
BLACK (COUNCIL MEMBERS AS WELL) IF THE BEGUM CANT WEAR
WHO ARE WE TO EVEN TRY TO WEAR BLACK

WHY DOES THE IMAM NEED TO BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT
TO REMIND US NOT TO WEAR BLACK. IT IS REALLY
SHAMEFUL. HOPE I AM NOT OFFENDING ANYONE IT IS JUST
MY RATIONALE

YA ALI MADAT

aminL · Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 84 Location: Toronto

Just because the Imam is present that does not mean that it is shameful in my opion because if you see the Imam and you decide to change your life style becuase of seeing Him then I dont think that there is anything wrong with them. Another thing I dont think that it is shameful to wear black, outside in public although personally i dont wear black at all. I do not think that it is a matter of ignorance I believe that it is a matter that the Imam's rahmet has not been bestowed upon those people so that they understand why it is wrong to wear black. Who are we to judge? If people wish to wear black clothes then let them but one day with the grace of Allah they will realize that wearing black, especailly in Jamat Khane is absoluty totally wrong. I said it before in my previous reply what more proof do you need the Prophet of Allah did not like this color, nor did our previous Imam, Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah nor does our present Imam Mowlana Sha Karim approve of this color, so why would you want to hurt your Imam? Make scence? Just my opinions and views.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

SO WHAT WAS I TRYING TO GET AT
OF COURSE IT IS SHAMEFUL IF THE IMAM IS PRESENT
(PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUALLY)
BUDDY I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THERE WAS A DEEDAR
AND SOMEONE WORE BLACK TO THE IMAM PRESENTENING
A MEHMANI AND MHI WONT BLESS HIM. ITS HAPPEND BEFORE
YA, IN PUBLIC I GUESS THAT IS ALRITE BUT IN JAMATKHANA
IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. IF THE IMAM SAYS IT THEN THERES
NO "WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE" TO IT THEN. IF THE IMAM SAYS
SOMETHING, WE DO IT IF YOU LOVE HIM YOU WOULDN'T WEAR
BLACK IN JAMATKHANA FOR INSTANCE. HOPE THIS RATIONALE
ISN'T HURTING ANYBODY

I APPLOGIZE IF IT DID

YA ALY MADAT

aminL · Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 84 Location: Toronto

The way I see it that if you wear black clothes that doesnt not mean that you dont love your Imam. And this is absoltuly judging people by saying that they are ignorant or by saying that they do not love the Imam. Who are we to say that they do not love the Imam. Everyone commits sins in one way or another but that does not mean that you dont love the Imam. If you want to truly show the whole world that you dont love the Imam then break the bayat, meaning leave the Ismaili Faith.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

Ya Aly Madat,

I understand that point of view but if u REALLY REALLY love the imam
I feel you would comply with his farmans. After all, giving baiyat
means you will do your best to do what the Imam says to do. So
if he says, if Prophet says, If MSMS says, then in my opinion
you shouldn't go to his house (jamatkhana) and present yourself
in black clothes.

Sure outside it's ok then but atleast not in khane. It does show
ignorance because you are ruining the electricity flowing within
the jamat. Atleast, I have condemned black in khane.

Mowla Aly Madat,

---------------

aminL · Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 84 Location: Toronto

It is not just the color black, all dark colors ruin the flow of electricity. Look at the other Muslims who go for Hajj. Why do they wear white? Beucase white is considered to be a sing of purity. So in my opion it would be best if we could keep the colors of our clothes to light colors, and totally discard the color black and cut down on wearing dark colored clothes.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

of course white is the best colour to wear when attending
jamatkhana. I remember a farman where MHI was extremely
happy with the simplicity of the jamat. If I post the farman,
Admin will delete it. May MHI bless all with the iman and courage
to find the haqiqati (truth) ameen

Ya Aly Madat

star_munir · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 1602

Black is colur of mourning thats why we avoid it wearing in Jk and other places I dont think so.
Yes black is colour of mouning but not always for example if I am wearing black pant that not means I am mourning or sad or if a girl is wearing black velvet frock that not means she is mourning.
The only reason we should NOT wear black clothes in Jamat Khana is that Hazir Imam has not allowed us to wear black clothes in Jamat Khana.

sammeghji · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 2

[quote]Black is colur of mourning thats why we avoid it wearing in Jk and other places I dont think so.
Yes black is colour of mouning but not always for example if I am wearing black pant that not means I am mourning or sad or if a girl is wearing black velvet frock that not means she is mourning.
The only reason we should NOT wear black clothes in Jamat Khana is that Hazir Imam has not allowed us to wear black clothes in Jamat Khana.[/quote]

YA ALI MADAD

I am agree with you because it is true that, if we are ismailies and have faith on Imam-e-zaman we have to obey all the faramins of MHI. That's why we should not wear black clothes in Jamat Khana.

Samina

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

absolutely

keep up the good work

Ya Aly Madat,

Welcome to The Heritage Web Site