Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:14 am Post subject: Polygamy
The following article which appeared in today's Calgary Herald discusses issues surrounding polygamy in Canada.
An uneven playing field
Polygamy won't happen in this country
Mahfooz Kanwar
For The Calgary Herald
Monday, January 31, 2005
Multiple marriages, commonly referred to as polygamy, have been either tolerated or practised now and then by all major cultures with the blessing of their religions. Now, Canada finds itself at the centre of a debate over whether polygamy should be allowed here.
First, let's sort out the definitions: Polygamy is a marital practice of having more than one wife or more than one husband at the same time. Polygyny means having more than one wife at the same time. And polyandry is a marital practice of having more than one husband at the same time.
Unlike polygyny, polyandry has never been accepted or practised by any major culture, and all major religions have opposed it. Some tribes, however, have practised polyandry. For example, the Toda family system in southern India, and the Andarie family system in northern India do so now.
Polygyny does not raise as many eyebrows as polyandry does, apparently because of male domination of cultural traditions and religions. Since men have traditionally dominated the social institutions of marriage, family and religion, they have made rules that favoured them.
In practically all societies, men seem to have suppressed women. Many major religions seem to lend support to men in this process of control over women. Religion has been a significant tool for "the establishment" to control the populace. Hence the acceptance of polygyny and rejection of polyandry, for no religion accommodates polyandry.
Some male custodians of religion brainwash women to accept polygyny. The two most prominent current examples are Muslims and a splinter group of Mormons.
Both have historic roots.
At the advent of Islam more than 1,400 years ago, the imbalanced sex ratio, created mainly by wars, necessitated the allowance of polygyny. The imbalance of sex ratio in those days was roughly four women to one man. Therefore, men were allowed to marry up to four women at the same time -- to give women the security and dignity of married life.
In today's world, however, that situation does not exist and it is argued that those Muslims who practise polygyny are misinterpreting Islam. Further, in this era of enlightenment, polygyny not only makes no sense, but is against the law in Canada. There is simply no place for either polygyny or polyandry in Canada.
The second group practising polygyny is the splinter group of Mormons. Since 1892, they have avoided laws against polygyny in Canada and the U.S. by registering only one marriage, while keeping the other wives approved by their faith. Since there is no law against common-law unions and adultery in Canada, they have been able to justify their practice of multiple wives at the same time. However, their practice of polygyny is expected to be challenged in Canada in the near future.
Canada is a secular state with a constitution that is enshrined with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which protects the human rights of all Canadians, including women. Polygyny is a system of marriage that violates women's rights. We don't live in countries, such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, where the women's rights seem to be violated through polygyny, muta marriage and concubinage.
More...
...Continued
Some Canadians seem to be apprehensive Muslims and breakaway Mormons may use their religions to justify polygyny with a religious freedom argument. This is highly unlikely. A large number of Muslim countries have outlawed polygyny; it has not caused upheaval in those countries.
Some Mormons have misused polygyny by encouraging their multiple wives to depend on welfare. Disallowing them to practise polygyny will act to close that loophole.
Besides polygyny, there are many religious practices that the Charter would not protect. For instance, some orthodox Hindus believe in suttee (in which a widow immolates herself.) That would never be accepted in Canada.
Some Islamic laws may never be accepted in secular Canada. For example, one man is as good as two women in witnessing; a son inherits twice as much as a daughter; alimony is largely missing in Islam; divorced Muslim women get custody of their sons under eight years of age and daughters before they reach puberty (after which fathers get custody automatically); Islam commands husbands to discipline their wives, including beating them; wives are considered inferior to their husbands. All of these sharia dictums can be challenged successfully in Canada.
In relation to Judaism, I understand there is a law in Israel which recognizes rape of married women as a ground for divorce if their husbands wish to use it. That is unlikely to be accepted in Canada.
Therefore, polygyny is highly unlikely to be accepted in the land of (human) rights and freedoms.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: Marriage and Health
Marital strife raises women's death rate
Married men had half the risk of dying
Charlie Fidelman
CanWest News Service
February 19, 2005
Suffering marital strain in silence increases women's risk of death by four times compared to women who are unhappy but show their feelings, according to research released Friday.
The unusual findings came as a surprise.
"Holy cow, what is this? It's such a large relative risk -- 400 per cent," epidemiologist Elaine Eaker said Friday in a telephone interview after presenting her findings at the American Heart Association's Second International Conference on Women, Heart Disease and Stroke, held in Orlando, Fla.
This is the first time that marital unhappiness has been linked to the development of heart disease and death, said Eaker, who is the lead investigator.
The findings came from the Framingham Offspring Study, a large and ongoing study tracking the prevalence of cardiovascular disease and other social and demographic characteristics such as marital strain in the Framingham, Mass., community.
Eaker collected marital discord data with researchers from Boston University.
The study included 1,769 men and 1,913 women age 18 to 77. Most participants -- 1,493 men and 1,501 women -- were married or "living in a marital situation."
The study confirmed that the married men live longer than the single.
"Not surprisingly, men have the better end of the deal," Eaker said. "Married men had half the risks of dying from all causes than unmarried men."
But marriage had no effect on a woman's survival.
Two types of strain proved harmful to both spouses.
Men whose wives came home upset because of work were more than twice as likely to develop heart disease.
Women who avoided conflict with their spouses, always keeping their feelings hidden, fared even worse.
"They died . . . we're convinced there is an effect," Eaker said.
It's not known why self-silencing increased their death risk by four times, but the study lends credence to the mind-body connection in health, she said.
Women who keep their emotions hidden are also more prone to depression.
"We found it not only related to depression but also to death," Eaker said. "What we need to explore is what self-silencing is doing to the body to create such a negative outcome."
Not all stress is bad, says cardiologist George Honos of the Heart and Stroke Foundation.
"But long-term exposure to stress, anger and repressed hostility is bad," Honos said.
A team led by psychiatrist Brian Baker of the University of Toronto showed that marriage affects blood pressure.
"We're not sure of the exact feature, but marriage seems to soothe the blood pressure, especially after a bad day," said Baker, a psychiatrist who only treats cardiac patients.
But women with heart disease and marital distress were more likely to have heart attacks and the outcome was much worse, he added.
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Marriages
saadi wrote:
Dear friends,
I'd like to know your opinion regarding the following issue:
"Do you believe it is okay for an Ismaili to marry a Non-Ismaili?"
It is not very common for Ismailis to marry outside the community yet what if one falls for a person outside the community? As I was going through some other forums, many of us are not even clear about how one converts to Ismailism, also if we are not ready to give up our faith then I think its not justified to expect it from the others. So in your opinion is it okay to marry outside the community (to a muslim of another sect), after all we are all Muslims, rite?
Let me present a situtation: "Is it okay for an Ismaili guy to marry a Sunni Girl?"
A: Yes I approve of it
B: It is okay only if the girl converts to Ismailism
C: It is okay only if the kids follow Ismailism in future
D: No it is absolutely unacceptable
Regards,
Saadi
Saddi, what is the tally 1-A and the rest can't vote, must be from Florida! Or are Democrats.
Put me down for A: Yes I approve of it.
I also looked at another post of "A Hindu marrying an Ismaili" AND did not find as much of a conviction as this one. Perhaps, it’s the predisposition to Hindus, my point being of Khija-Ismailis.
Last edited by unnalhaq on Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total
I know there is a family, in, Illinois, that holds an informal gathering of mixed spouses (ismaili and non-ismaili) and converted spouses (ismaili and converted ismailis after marriage). If you need more info you can PM me and I can give you their info.
Marital Stress: Bad For a Woman's Heart
by Mary Calvagna, MS
Men and women are not the same; and this notion carries through to health issues. For example, when a woman under the age of 70 has a heart attack, she has a worse prognosis than a man of the same age. The reason for this disparity, however, is not yet understood.
A commonly held belief is that a man's stress is experienced at work and a woman's stress is experienced at home. Previous studies of men have found that work stress is associated with an increase in heart disease and poorer health outcomes after a heart attack. Speculation into the role of stress in the home led researchers to focus on marital stress as well as work stress when they studied women and heart attacks. Their results were published in an issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.
Work Stress Versus Marital Stress
Researchers studied 279 females who were hospitalized after experiencing a heart attack. For five years after the initial attack, records were kept on any recurrences of coronary events, such as another heart attack, a revascularization procedure, or death from heart disease. In addition, researchers assessed marriage and work stress levels in the women using specialized questionnaires and structured interviews.
The results were quite significant. Severe marital stress was highly correlated with risk of a recurrent cardiac event; these women had a threefold higher risk than women with mild or no marital stress. Work stress, however, did not increase a woman's risk for a recurrent event.
The authors of the study speculated on possible explanations for these findings. Due to emotional strain and a perceived lack of support from her partner, a woman may not be motivated to stick with healthful lifestyle behaviors, or may not seek out medical support. Another factor may be the potentially damaging effects of negative emotional states and stress on the way the body functions physiologically.
Communicate Your Way to Less Stress
Whatever the mechanism, it seems clear that marital stress is bad for a woman's heart, both emotionally and physically. Working to alleviate stress in a marriage is a good step toward health and happiness. Many experts believe that communication is the foundation for a good marriage.
The Families Worldwide Organization provides some ideas about what you and your spouse can do to help build effective communication. Some of the tips include:
Listen as well as talk; Communication is a two-way street.
Work on hearing what your spouse is communicating. You may not be receiving the message that your partner is trying to convey.
Restate what you think your partner has said to ensure that what you think you heard was what was intended. This will help with your understanding.
Be sensitive to the nonverbal messages as well as the ones expressed in words. Although they can be confusing, they can also send important messages.
Take time out to talk. Put the kids to bed, turn off the television, unplug the phone. Make it a priority.
Just be there. Sometimes it is comfort enough to have someone to lean on or someone to listen.
Orth-Gomér K. et al. Marital stress worsens prognosis in women with coronary heart disease. Journal of the American Medical Association2000; 284(23)3008-3014.
Research shows that marriage contributes to good health, and people who are healthier tend to live longer. Married men and women are less likely to have drinking problems, commit suicide, and develop mental problems. They also tend to eat more healthfully and exercise more frequently. What is it about marriage that leads to a longer, healthier life? Is marriage a means to achieving better health?
Men, Marriage, and Mortality
Some researchers suggest that the health benefits of marriage are stronger for men than women. A study published in the American Journal of Sociology found that 88% of married men live to the age of 65, while only 63% of never-married men, 65% of divorced men, and 69% of widowed men live to that age. The marriage benefit was not as substantial for women in this study: it found that 92% of married, 81% of never-married, 82% of divorced, and 90% of widowed women live to the age of 65.
The reason for this discrepancy isn’t entirely clear, but some researchers think it’s partly because single men are more likely than single women to engage in risky behavior—fast driving, skydiving, and binge drinking, for example. Also, women are more likely than men to have a strong social network, whether or not they are married, and social support is associated with better health and a longer life.
The Health Benefits of Marriage
The reason that married people tend to be healthier and live longer than unmarried people is complex and not fully understood. Some researchers point to the “marriage protection hypothesis,” which attributes the health benefits of marriage to the social, psychological, economic, and environmental effects of marriage. Others theorize that healthy people are simply more likely to get married. But, most researchers fall somewhere in between: they believe that, while it is true that healthy people may be more likely to get married, marriage itself is associated certain health benefits that can increase your chances of living a long, healthy life.
Just living with someone can be good for your health. People who live with a spouse—or anyone else, for that matter—have a better chance of getting care in times of illness. Also, spouses tend to promote healthful behaviors and discourage unhealthful ones, making married people more likely to eat healthfully and exercise, and less likely to smoke and excessively drink.
Another reason married men and women tend to live longer has to do with money. Married couples tend to have higher incomes, save more, and get more Social Security when they retire than unmarried individuals. Studies have shown that wealthier people have more access to health care and information, and are less likely to smoke, drink, eat poorly, and be sedentary.
Good Versus Bad Marriages
So, does just being married mean you will be healthier and live longer? Recent studies say that it depends on whether your marriage is good or bad. Research has shown that while a good marriage may offer health benefits, a bad marriage can actually be detrimental to your health.
A study in the December 11, 2000 issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine found that staying in a bad marriage was associated with increased blood pressure, while a good marriage was associated with decreased blood pressure. Another study in the September 2003 issue of Health Psychology found that, compared to women who reported satisfying marriages, women who were dissatisfied with their marriages were more likely to develop cardiovascular risk factors over time. These studies indicate that marital stress and dissatisfaction can put you at risk for adverse health outcomes.
Do You Need to Be Married to Be Healthy?
If you are married or are planning on becoming married, the best advice is to choose wisely when deciding who you want to spend your life with and work hard to make your marriage a strong one. If you aren’t married, you can still practice good health habits. Eat well, get plenty of exercise, keep tabs on your health, and build a strong, supportive social network.
Baker B, Paquette M, Szalai JP, et al. The influence of marital adjustment on 3-year left ventricular mass and ambulatory blood pressure in milk hypertension. Archives of Internal Medicine. 2000;160:3453-3458.
Coombs RH. Marital status and personal well-being: a literature review. Family Relations. 1991;40:97-102.
Final Mortality Data for 1996 Sets New Records: Highest Life Expectancy and Lowest Infant Mortality Rate. National Center for Health Statistics website.
Available at: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/releases/98facts/finmort.htm.
Accessed September 10, 2003.
Gallo LC, Troxel WM, Matthews KA, Kuller LH. Marital status and quality in middle-aged women: associations with levels and trajectories of cardiovascular risk factors. Health Psychology. 2003;22.
Goldman N. Mortality differentials: selection and causation. Internation Encyclopedia of the Social and Behavioral Sciences. 2001:10068-10070.
The great secret of a successful marriage is to treat all disasters as incidents and none of the incidents as disasters.
-Sir Harold Nicolson
From "A Bad Economy Is Good for Your Health?" by Sharon Linnéa:
In a surprising turnaround on conventional wisdom, researcher Linda J. Waite has found that unhappily married couples who divorce are no happier in the long run than their counterparts who remain married. This is because nearly two thirds of the couples who are unhappy in their marriages—even extremely so—describe their marriage as happy five years later, while unhappy people who divorce are most likely to still be unhappy. This seems to be true with couples who stayed together even when faced with problems as serious as infidelity or drug use. In fact, the more extreme the unhappiness, the more likely the marriage was to turn around. Of those who rated their marriage very unhappy, 8 out of 10 had found success with the same spouse five years later.
In some cases it’s because the couples actively worked to solve the problems—for example, they sought counseling. In some they simply waited out the problem—the children grew up, a spouse landed a job—and in some the husband and wife took responsibility for finding happiness in other venues than the marriage. Yet the researchers also point out that most of the couples that describe themselves as unhappy in their marriages thought of those same marriages as happy five years earlier—and likely would again. In other words, most marriages go through prolonged periods of difficulty, but if the partners are committed to commitment as well as to each other, they are likely to come out happy with their relationship as years go by.
Krim, as you said it is your opinion. One's opinion does not necessarily have to be right or wrong. You must have your own justification (conviction) to your own opinion, just as long as you are not forcing your opinion onto others...
I think it may not be a bad idea to read the past posts to help you further refine or have a second look!
marrying out of Ismaili community is considered as disgrace to the community.... ppl rebel against the person who has any interest outside the community in some other comunity.... such people are not considered true followers of Agha Khan but in fact if u realize being a true follower of Agha Khan's teachings is not really a big issue but yeah if ur true to the teachings of Allah, i.e. Quran... then u wont be having any problems....
if Princess Zahrah (pRince Karim's daighter) can get married to a practicing christian, then y not an 'ordinary' Ismaili? no Ismaili has got the guts to raise this issue... Y? becoz ur not allowed to talk against the heritage, but follow the excuses that are laid down in case of any failure on part of ur leader.... he is a human being like all of us, nuthing special, he fails too...
Bow to ur Imam and Ali... and Allah will ask u on the Day of Judgement for the 'SHIRK' that ur indulging into...
only if Ismailis had the brains to think... it wudnt have been the case... following an ordinary man when it is clearly stated in Quran that everyword of Allah in Quran has been perfected for us to follow until the Day of Judgement.... and even if Hazrat Ali was appointed by Hazrat Muhammad (p.b.u.h), it was only to guide the people by giving reference from the Quran...! not to change it! no one had the authority to change Quran not even Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h).....
THINK!!! and THINK LOGICALLY!!!
OR
the best thing you can do is to come up with excuses...
OR
say that u cannot tell everything bout ur religion... of course U CANT...! COZ YOUR NOT SURE BOUT IT!!!!
marrying out of Ismaili community is considered as disgrace to the community.... ppl rebel against the person who has any interest outside the community in some other comunity.... such people are not considered true followers of Agha Khan but in fact if u realize being a true follower of Agha Khan's teachings is not really a big issue but yeah if ur true to the teachings of Allah, i.e. Quran... then u wont be having any problems....
if Princess Zahrah (pRince Karim's daighter) can get married to a practicing christian, then y not an 'ordinary' Ismaili? no Ismaili has got the guts to raise this issue... Y? becoz ur not allowed to talk against the heritage, but follow the excuses that are laid down in case of any failure on part of ur leader.... he is a human being like all of us, nuthing special, he fails too...
Bow to ur Imam and Ali... and Allah will ask u on the Day of Judgement for the 'SHIRK' that ur indulging into...
only if Ismailis had the brains to think... it wudnt have been the case... following an ordinary man when it is clearly stated in Quran that everyword of Allah in Quran has been perfected for us to follow until the Day of Judgement.... and even if Hazrat Ali was appointed by Hazrat Muhammad (p.b.u.h), it was only to guide the people by giving reference from the Quran...! not to change it! no one had the authority to change Quran not even Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h).....
THINK!!! and THINK LOGICALLY!!!
OR
the best thing you can do is to come up with excuses...
OR
say that u cannot tell everything bout ur religion... of course U CANT...! COZ YOUR NOT SURE BOUT IT!!!!
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:57 am Post subject: Re: YES or NO
Krim wrote:
Ya Ali Madad,
Well i went through message from Saadi also red some replies. some says there is no problem in getting married to other community girl and some says its against ismaili community.... iam confused now.
i have heard that its good to bring other community people into our community...iam not sure if this is rite or not..?
also if she agrees to join our community n follow our culture.
so can anyone explain me. is there a problem in getting married to other community girl even though if she agrees to join our community n follow our culture. y?is it so are there any farman on it.
and if there is no problem, then as our Imam given any farman on it.
i would appreciate ur replies.
Bai-Bai.
It is important that you must read all of the replies not just some. I know it is a daunting task but if you are seeking answers you must read.
Now having said that, it seems that you are mixing culture into religion; How come? That is the primary mistake. The religion is religion and the culture is culture. I know in some cultures, the culture is overbearing of the religion and something that you as a human being must contend with.
If you are looking to marry someone who would have your cultural values then it is very simple marry someone from your culture. If you are trying to implant (or transplant) your culture beyond the national (regional) boundaries then that can result in cultural conflict or to use The Imam’s words form recent speech in NY, “conflict of ignorance”.
Coming back from the brink of divorce
'Retrouvaille' weekends let couples reconnect
Graeme Morton
Calgary Herald
Sunday, February 04, 2007
In modern North American society, we routinely pitch out disposable razors, diapers . . . even cellphones.
With a divorce rate flirting with 40 per cent in Canada, it would appear we can add many marriages to that toss-away list.
For those willing to give their marriage one more solid shot before throwing in the towel, Retrouvaille could be the lifeline they're reaching for.
Launched in Quebec in the 1970s, the Retrouvaille (rediscovery in French) program has now spread across North America and beyond.
Catholic in origin, the program is open to men and women of any, or no, faith background.
"There is some spiritual content, but it's not our intent to convert people to one particular denomination," says Renee Fietz, who co-ordinates the Calgary program with her husband Don.
"And it's not a situation where we profess to have all the answers or where we vow to make your marriage perfect. That's not realistic. We've all struggled," she says.
In Retrouvaille, couples commit to spend one full weekend with others who find themselves in similar straights. They stay at a local hotel and are guided by three "peer ministry" couples who've been through Retrouvaille themselves, and a local Catholic priest.
"My role is to present the theoretical aspect of what they're going to be talking about," says Father John Petravicius.
"I think the practice of faith is a major element in a marriage working out," he adds, "but first and foremost, the human situation has to be developed. If that doesn't develop, there's no possibility for growth."
For Alyre and Velma (last name withheld for privacy), married for 24 years and parents of three children, Retrouvaille is playing a key role in how they see each other and their marriage.
"We were pretty young when we met. I thought he was going to be my knight in shining armour; he was going to solve all my problems," remembers Velma.
They had taken their issues to counsellors, both individually and as a couple.
"We really looked at this (Retrouvaille) as our last chance to keep it together," says Velma.
Don Fietz said the key is to supply struggling couples with the tools and backup support to start talking, really communicating on a deep level instead of exchanging shallow small talk.
"The 'honeymoon' period in many marriages doesn't last very long, perhaps a year. The level of communication declines to include the weather, the kids . . . whatever it takes to keep the household going day-to-day, but nothing of any substance," he says.
"There's this feeling of people leading a 'single married' lifestyle, each going in their own direction . . . of it all slipping away."
During a Retrouvaille weekend, from Friday night to Sunday evening, couples commit to totally focus on their marriages. There's no going home to the distractions of children, job pressures or hobbies.
Alyre and Velma joined 33 other couples at the last Calgary weekend in September.
"What helps is that it is not a situation where you are spilling your guts, airing all the problems in your marriage in front of a group of strangers," says Alyre.
"The building, or rebuilding, of communication is between you and your spouse. But at the same time, it's reassuring to see that you're not alone, that other couples are having problems, too," he says.
Through a series of guided exercises, the couples are encouraged begin to break down walls, often cemented by back-and-forth criticism, that build up over the years.
"The biggest thing for me was beginning to see issues from her perspective. It lets you get inside your partner's head and understand where they are coming from," says Alyre.
Renee Fietz says body language often illustrates the progress, or lack of it, a couple is making on their issues.
"On Friday night, they're often sitting stiffly next to each other. By Sunday afternoon, they're usually a lot closer together," she adds.
Retrouvaille isn't an easy, one-shot fix.
It's demanding, introspective work and the Fietzes admit some couples who take the course still end up in divorce court.
But for those who break through barriers on the weekend, there are exercises to take home and an extensive mentoring followup program to cement the skills learned.
"We felt we got a fresh start on our marriage," says Alyre. "I learned it's not a matter of assigning blame; that I'm the only one I can work on and fix."
For Alyre and Velma, that followup is on hold for the time being.
Soon after they completed their Retrouvaille weekend last fall, an illness robbed Velma of her hearing. She's undergoing a series of medical procedures to restore that faculty.
"We believe it was meant to happen because we were not listening to each other or to God," Velma says of her hearing loss.
"I've since realized that silence isn't so bad; it actually allows you to think and to hear God speak."
The next Calgary Retrouvaille weekend is set for Feb. 16 to 18.
More information is available by calling 218-5504 or at helpourmarriage.com
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