www.ismaili.net

ismaili103 wrote:

JITHEY DI KHOTI UTHEY AAN KHILOTI
My question wasn't about Dus Awtar, how come this pop up here. What was role of Mowla Ali during life time of Hazrat Abu Talib as Imam? Ali was by birth Imam or as you people say Allah, so Allah of that time was silent doing nothing.
Karachi walo Eid ka tuhfa, Dashrat father of Ram was also imam.
AAP ka husn e Karishma, jise chaho pakar ke imam banalo. Wah Bhai Wah.
By the way you people are running away from Quran, though 'ALI IS WITH QURAN AND QURAN IS WITH ALI'.

Every ismaili on earth use to recite name of Imam Dashrat in there gathpat dua for 800 years including your Dada and Par Dada.


shri farsiram ( 6th avatar )

32. roog, 33 . noog, 34 . ju jeaat, 35. kumbra,
36. alif, 3 7 . ajepaal, 38. Dashrat

Shri ram ( 7th avatar)

Ali is bolta Quran.
Usmani Quran is a book full of contradiction.

You are running away from real quran( Imam ) and believing in some dead Allama who claimed to be fake Imam.

[/quote]

Same rhetoric, same dada/par dada and dada ka dada on top of that some other dada, these dadas are finally connected to dada Adam.
You wrote," every Ismaili on earth used to recite name of Dhashrat in their ghatpat du'a." When you do not know ask Dada of Heritage what you wrote is correct or not then post? In Afghanistan, central Asians countries, china and in Arab countries where original Isamilis lived that Sutpunthi Ghatpat du'a was not recited.
The bolta Quran said read the existing Quran and practice, it is the same Quran Imam mentioned in Preamble.

Admin wrote:Please stop beating around the bush The Bush era is gone.

You always mix umpteen subjects and when people reply to one of the specific subjects you say it is taken out of context.

You can not even read English simple sentence as the one I wrote about KIZ and GE.

Here is the sentence again. Not only KIZ but also the Golden Edition can be called Pir if Imam tell us to call it Pir.

I repeat, ANY book which our Imam appoint as Pir will be recognised as Pir by all Haqiqati Ismailis. We do not force non-Ismaiis and anti-Ismaili to follow our beliefs in the Imam.

Oh Yeah, Golden Edition is extension of KIZ, so what is the difference. When KIM IS BANNED ( mostly farmans not recited in khane), look at the chances of GE being pir, wishful thinking, good luck.

kmaherali wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote:But historically there are gaps in Avtars means planet was without a pir also.

At all times the Imam is also the Pir and that is why he is GurNar and ShahPir. At times he keeps the position of Piratan to himself as at present and at other times he appoints someone else to perform the role. Nevertheless the Pir is always present.

As I have mentioned before, Sutpunthis have two track philosophy. It is a good approach, you know why! When you are trapped on one way just take U turn and start back ward on other track. For example, Imam was, if not it was pir. Imam said, no actually Imam said that in capacity of pir and not as an Imam. I think Mukhi should be included in line and it will be lot easier to dodge questions.

kmaherali wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote:You wrote," The Prophet was addressing the Ummah which comprises the Shia and the Sunni." My question to you, Are the Ismailis not a part of UMMAH?.

The Ummah is a diversity of intepretations. The Shia intepretation is different than the Sunnis.

shivaathervedi wrote: You asked me if I am a Shia or not........? Personally I am above Shia/Sunni conflict. At time of Prophet there were no Shia or Sunni grouping. I respect all religions even atheists..

Good to know that, hence I will modify my asertion: According to Shia intepretation the Imams are also Ahl al-Bayt.
My question to you is that, if you are not a Shia or Sunni then why do you make fuss about the meaning of Ali-ullah because you are not supposed to recite Dua anyway? Dua is only meant for Ismailis?

shivaathervedi wrote: Regarding Prophet being a Satpunthi pir, I have requested you people to visit and check archaic and old files at ITREB Karachi or Mumbai. Check the classified files. There had been a discussion in early 50's on Prophet being a pir or not and other issues. Reports were sent to MSMS and in my opinion after lengthy discussions list of pirs was not included in new Du'a decided by Imam. From 1951 to July 1957, MSMS made many changes. Prophethood is above piratan.
Can you name some other Prophets being pirs for my information.

As far as I know, the list of the Pirs mentioned by Pir Sadardeen was valid until the Old Dua was changed to New Dua.

I have no knowledge of the positions of other Prophets with respect to our Tariqah, but I do know that Pirs were either the Imams themselves or those appointed by him and Piratan is continuous and eternal whereas Prophethood is incidental according to the needs of the time and not continuous. Hence Piratan is superior.

I know the Shia interpretations are different than Sunnis.
Both throat cuts. Deep Shia/Sunni conflict.
My words were, I am above Shia/Sunni conflict because I am not a party to any one. Also I wrote, at time of Prophet there was no Shia/Sunni division.
Let me ask you and all readers a question; DID GOD CREATED SOULS AS SUNNI OR SHIA? DID PROPHET CLAIMED TO BE A SUNNI OR SHIA?
If Prophet was a pir means all other prophets should be pir as Prophet said, we prophets of Allah are brothers. Piratan is not higher than Prophethood.
MSMS gave new Du'a, fallow that and there is no mention of pirs in current Du'a, like wise as old Ghatpat du'as replaced and jamaits do not recite Hindu names in it. I stand by my statement that in early 50's there were discussions whether Prophet was a pir or not? I have not refuted that Pindiyat was not a pir. But I asked a question, WHO GAVE STATUS OF PIR TO PINDIYAT, IMAM MUSTANSIRBILLAH SECOND OR IMAM MUSTANSIRBILLAH THIRD? Do you have any clue?

shivaathervedi wrote:DID GOD CREATED SOULS AS SUNNI OR SHIA? DID PROPHET CLAIMED TO BE A SUNNI OR SHIA?

The Aga Khan IV said:

"There is hardly any country in the world whose population is made up of men and women of one single ethnic background, or one single faith. It is thus clearly evident that peace in the decades ahead can only be achieved when the pluralist nature of human society is understood, is valued, and I built upon, to construct a better future. In Islam, the pluralism of human society is well recognized, and the ethics of its multiple interpretations require that this diversity be accorded respect. The Shahada, La-Illaha-Il-Allaah-Muhammad-ur-Rasulilah – binds a thousand million people who over the centuries, have come to live in different cultures, speak different languages, live in different political contexts, and who differentiate in some interpretations of their faith.

Within the Ummah, the Ismaili Jamat reflects much of the same pluralism. The plurality of the Muslim world is not just an irreversible historical fact, but it is a strength for which we must be grateful, and a strength that must be continuously harnessed to the building of the future with in the ethics of Islam. Any differences must be resolved through tolerance, through understanding, through compassion, through dialogue, through forgiveness, through generosity, all of which represent the ethics of Islam. I urge upon you all, that you build warm relations with each other here in Syria, and elsewhere, and that together, you respond to the challenges which life may put before you. It is with deep happiness and admiration that I note that here in Syria the principles of tolerance, brotherhood, and mutual supports amongst communities are already well established. This will contribute to strong collaboration in identifying and analyzing social and economic challenges that lie ahead, and in determining how best to anticipate and to respond to them."(Salamieh, Syria Saturday, November 10, 2001)

Since you are above Shia/Sunni, why should it matter to you what happens within the Shia Ismaili Tariqah of Islam? Why should it matter to you if the Prophet is the Pir or not?

Same rhetoric, same dada/par dada and dada ka dada on top of that some other dada, these dadas are finally connected to dada Adam.
You wrote," every Ismaili on earth used to recite name of Dhashrat in their ghatpat du'a." When you do not know ask Dada of Heritage what you wrote is correct or not then post? In Afghanistan, central Asians countries, china and in Arab countries where original Isamilis lived that Sutpunthi Ghatpat du'a was not recited.
The bolta Quran said read the existing Quran and practice, it is the same Quran Imam mentioned in Preamble.

To understand ismailism you non ismailis need to stop believing in some fake bald allama who claimed to be Imam somewhere in hunza.

Quran is the " KARTOOT" of ITREB ARABIA 1400 years ago, Chairman sahab of ITREB was Usman then, Vice chairman were Umer and Abu bakar. They published a book which contained farmans of Imam Ali and named that book Quran but they did the same thing what currently ITREB is doing , changing and corrupting the Imam's farman. And that Book astray's 1.5 billion muslim and counting.

As I have mentioned before, Sutpunthis have two track philosophy. It is a good approach, you know why! When you are trapped on one way just take U turn and start back ward on other track. For example, Imam was, if not it was pir. Imam said, no actually Imam said that in capacity of pir and not as an Imam. I think Mukhi should be included in line and it will be lot easier to dodge questions.

Imam sultan mohd shah cleary wrote in his will that I appoint Shah Karim as 49th Imam and 50th Pir of ISMAILIS.

BTW there is only Imam mustansirbillah awal and dom, there is no third Imam mustansirbillah.[/quote]

The Asal Dua was recited in Syria. I have a friend still alive who said he remembers the "Gujrati" Dua recited daily in Salmieh Jamatkhana when he was a kid.

Dr. Sheikh Khodr Hamawi, an Ismaili from Lebanon came to our house few years ago.

Sheikh Khodr is a Buzurg, a wise man and a scholar who wrote a book titled "An Introduction to Ismailism" in 1970. He is still alive.

He recited to us the Asal Dua by heart and confirmed that he was reciting it long before the new Arabic Dua came to existence.

Ignorant people will try to do their propaganda and try to spread false rumours. That is expected. They can ultimately only misled themselves because truth always prevails.

kmaherali wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote:
According to history Bibi Khadijah's birth year is 555 AD or 567 AD. According to Shi'i traditions at time of her marriage to Prophet, she was of same age as of Prophet that is 24/25 years. She was not divorced and her only marriage was with Prophet Muhammad. Her only children from Prophet were Hazrat Qasim and Bibi Fatimah..

It is a generally accepted fact by all historians that I have read about, that Bibi Khadija was 15 years older than Muhammad. What you are saying contradicts all history!

shivaathervedi wrote:
Ismailis believe God created Noor e Ali and Noor e Muhammadi in primordial time. No where it is mentioned in any history or tradition books that God Created Noor e Ali and Noor e Bibi Khadijah, THEN how come Bibi became spititual mentor of Prophet Muhammad? Rashidah wrote," she was Abu Talib's Hujjat. Prophet received spiritual knowledge from Bibi before progressing to stage of receiving it directly from Abu Talib." But at that time Imam was Hazrat Abu Talib, when Imam is present and active in same area pir is always SAMIT..

The Noor that was in Bibi Khadija was also the same Noor in the Prophet. We call it Noor-e-Muhammadi because the Prophet is universally accepted by all Tariqahs which accept the notion of Noor. Bibi Khadija was not uiversally accepted as the bearer of Noor and hence we don't call the Noor the Noor-e-Khadija although as Ismailis we can do so if we chose to do so.
Imams are always active and they have various roles, Piratan being one of them. He appoints other members as his Hujjats as and when he deems appropriate to do so. When he appoints someone else to perform the role of Piratan, he himself does not perform it.

shivaathervedi wrote:
Rashidah wrote, the line of permanent Imamat worked SECRETLY!! Why so secrecy any death threats.

Sometimes our faith is understood and sometimes it is misunderstood and hence can create problems in society. Therefore secrecy was the best approach. MSMS in his Memoirs states:

"Often persecuted and oppressed, the faith of my ancestors was never destroyed; at times it flourished as in the epoch of the Fatimite Khalifs, at times it was obscure and little understood."

http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0016b.html

As usual you dodged my important paragraph. Let me remind you. I wrote," It was you who in posts have refuted that 1000 years old philosophy that is of Fatimid period is not applicable in modern era, and asked you who are Huddud e Din now a days as you favored the statement of Rashidah.
Regarding Bibi Khadijah I used references from Shia history where as your reference is Sunni point of view.
I think some insane Muslim will accept that Bibi was spiritual Mentor of Prophet. It is other way round. Just to prove your point that she was spiritual Mentor of Prophet, you people have no choice but to declare she was 15 years older than Prophet.
You did not shed light on 80,000 camels in possession of Bibi, True or False?
What about Waraqah ben Nawfal, was he an Ismaili Dai? Any historical proof.
Did Islam started to progress because of her and became universal Religion? You dogged these above questions!

kmaherali wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote:DID GOD CREATED SOULS AS SUNNI OR SHIA? DID PROPHET CLAIMED TO BE A SUNNI OR SHIA?

The Aga Khan IV said:

"There is hardly any country in the world whose population is made up of men and women of one single ethnic background, or one single faith. It is thus clearly evident that peace in the decades ahead can only be achieved when the pluralist nature of human society is understood, is valued, and I built upon, to construct a better future. In Islam, the pluralism of human society is well recognized, and the ethics of its multiple interpretations require that this diversity be accorded respect. The Shahada, La-Illaha-Il-Allaah-Muhammad-ur-Rasulilah – binds a thousand million people who over the centuries, have come to live in different cultures, speak different languages, live in different political contexts, and who differentiate in some interpretations of their faith.

Within the Ummah, the Ismaili Jamat reflects much of the same pluralism. The plurality of the Muslim world is not just an irreversible historical fact, but it is a strength for which we must be grateful, and a strength that must be continuously harnessed to the building of the future with in the ethics of Islam. Any differences must be resolved through tolerance, through understanding, through compassion, through dialogue, through forgiveness, through generosity, all of which represent the ethics of Islam. I urge upon you all, that you build warm relations with each other here in Syria, and elsewhere, and that together, you respond to the challenges which life may put before you. It is with deep happiness and admiration that I note that here in Syria the principles of tolerance, brotherhood, and mutual supports amongst communities are already well established. This will contribute to strong collaboration in identifying and analyzing social and economic challenges that lie ahead, and in determining how best to anticipate and to respond to them."(Salamieh, Syria Saturday, November 10, 2001)

Since you are above Shia/Sunni, why should it matter to you what happens within the Shia Ismaili Tariqah of Islam? Why should it matter to you if the Prophet is the Pir or not?

You misunderstood me or twisting my statement. I am not involved in Shia Sunni conflict and not a part of killer bees. ARE YOU?
You did not answer my question, I asked, is soul created as Shia soul or Sunni soul?
Imam's words are golden but any Shia group or Sunni group listening to it!!

ismaili103 wrote:

Same rhetoric, same dada/par dada and dada ka dada on top of that some other dada, these dadas are finally connected to dada Adam.
You wrote," every Ismaili on earth used to recite name of Dhashrat in their ghatpat du'a." When you do not know ask Dada of Heritage what you wrote is correct or not then post? In Afghanistan, central Asians countries, china and in Arab countries where original Isamilis lived that Sutpunthi Ghatpat du'a was not recited.
The bolta Quran said read the existing Quran and practice, it is the same Quran Imam mentioned in Preamble.

To understand ismailism you non ismailis need to stop believing in some fake bald allama who claimed to be Imam somewhere in hunza.

Quran is the " KARTOOT" of ITREB ARABIA 1400 years ago, Chairman sahab of ITREB was Usman then, Vice chairman were Umer and Abu bakar. They published a book which contained farmans of Imam Ali and named that book Quran but they did the same thing what currently ITREB is doing , changing and corrupting the Imam's farman. And that Book astray's 1.5 billion muslim and counting.

You Satrangi, oh I forgot Satpunthi, first learn to respect others. There are many balds on your side too.
Allamah Hunzai is your Din Bandu. Read his books. He also believe in Ali Allah,why to disrespect him. His students are looking for you. I do not want to say further, good luck.

ismaili103 wrote:

Same rhetoric, same dada/par dada and dada ka dada on top of that some other dada, these dadas are finally connected to dada Adam.
You wrote," every Ismaili on earth used to recite name of Dhashrat in their ghatpat du'a." When you do not know ask Dada of Heritage what you wrote is correct or not then post? In Afghanistan, central Asians countries, china and in Arab countries where original Isamilis lived that Sutpunthi Ghatpat du'a was not recited.
The bolta Quran said read the existing Quran and practice, it is the same Quran Imam mentioned in Preamble.

To understand ismailism you non ismailis need to stop believing in some fake bald allama who claimed to be Imam somewhere in hunza.

Quran is the " KARTOOT" of ITREB ARABIA 1400 years ago, Chairman sahab of ITREB was Usman then, Vice chairman were Umer and Abu bakar. They published a book which contained farmans of Imam Ali and named that book Quran but they did the same thing what currently ITREB is doing , changing and corrupting the Imam's farman. And that Book astray's 1.5 billion muslim and counting.

It means according to your stupid analogy Mowla Ali created ITREB in his times and appointed Hazrat Usman as chairman and Hazrat Abu Baqar as vice chairman and asked them to compile Quran and publish it. Good now what is your problem kiddo. You see it is a good example of Pluralism. Ali never made any changes later on in Quran.

ismaili103 wrote:

As I have mentioned before, Sutpunthis have two track philosophy. It is a good approach, you know why! When you are trapped on one way just take U turn and start back ward on other track. For example, Imam was, if not it was pir. Imam said, no actually Imam said that in capacity of pir and not as an Imam. I think Mukhi should be included in line and it will be lot easier to dodge questions.

Imam sultan mohd shah cleary wrote in his will that I appoint Shah Karim as 49th Imam and 50th Pir of ISMAILIS.

BTW there is only Imam mustansirbillah awal and dom, there is no third Imam mustansirbillah.

[/quote]

Kiddo read history properly out side Ismaili sources, equip with your self with proper knowledge than jump in to debate.

You Satrangi, oh I forgot Satpunthi, first learn to respect others. There are many balds on your side too.
Allamah Hunzai is your Din Bandu. Read his books. He also believe in Ali Allah,why to disrespect him. His students are looking for you. I do not want to say further, good luck.

Theek pehchana bachay....I'm satrangi, abhi tak mere baki rang dekhe hy kha ha tum ne.

I'm eagerly waiting for his students, I want to hug them if they believe in Ali Allah.

It means according to your stupid analogy Mowla Ali created ITREB in his times and appointed Hazrat Usman as chairman and Hazrat Abu Baqar as vice chairman and asked them to compile Quran and publish it. Good now what is your problem kiddo. You see it is a good example of Pluralism. Ali never made any changes later on in Quran.

Two things has no limits, universe and human stupidity and I'm affraid human stupidity can surpass universe.

Those who cant understand sarcasm are surely stupid.

Baara mahiney mai bara tareeqeh se tujh ko mai phasaoga re. [/quote]

Kiddo read history properly out side Ismaili sources, equip with your self with proper knowledge than jump in to debate.

Bachay kaha bhag rha ha paltu...baat palat mat.

Answer me about the will of Imam sultan mohd shah in which he said Hazir Imam is 49th Imam and 50th Pir of ALL ISMAILIS[/quote]

Admin wrote:The Asal Dua was recited in Syria. I have a friend still alive who said he remembers the "Gujrati" Dua recited daily in Salmieh Jamatkhana when he was a kid.

Dr. Sheikh Khodr Hamawi, an Ismaili from Lebanon came to our house few years ago.

Sheikh Khodr is a Buzurg, a wise man and a scholar who wrote a book titled "An Introduction to Ismailism" in 1970. He is still alive.

He recited to us the Asal Dua by heart and confirmed that he was reciting it long before the new Arabic Dua came to existence.

Ignorant people will try to do their propaganda and try to spread false rumours. That is expected. They can ultimately only misled themselves because truth always prevails.

Let me ask you few question wise man.
Before that asal Du'a what kind of Du'a/Namaz they were reciting?
In which year MSMS introduced the asal Du'a?
That was not the asal Du'a given by Pir Sadadin but revised Du'a.
There are 52 alphabets in Sindhi language and there are 42 alphabets in Gujrati language including vowels. In Arabic there are generally 28 alphabets.
There are many Sindhi and Gujrati alphabets which Arabs can not pronounce properly as Satpunthis can not pronounce SUAD,DHUAD, TO'I, ZO'I, QAAF so on. Arab Ismails were making hundreds mistake in pronouncing old Du'a, there fore MSMS with drew the asal Du'a.
You should have recorded the asal Du'a recited by Shaikh Khodr and we have counted how many mistakes he did made!!

ismaili103 wrote:

You Satrangi, oh I forgot Satpunthi, first learn to respect others. There are many balds on your side too.
Allamah Hunzai is your Din Bandu. Read his books. He also believe in Ali Allah,why to disrespect him. His students are looking for you. I do not want to say further, good luck.

Theek pehchana bachay....I'm satrangi, abhi tak mere baki rang dekhe hy kha ha tum ne.

I'm eagerly waiting for his students, I want to hug them if they believe in Ali Allah.

Abb aaya seedhi line pe. Jubb jutey parney ka darr hua tou I will hug them. This is your usual practice.

ismaili103 wrote:

Kiddo read history properly out side Ismaili sources, equip with your self with proper knowledge than jump in to debate.

Bachay kaha bhag rha ha paltu...baat palat mat.

Answer me about the will of Imam sultan mohd shah in which he said Hazir Imam is 49th Imam and 50th Pir of ALL ISMAILIS

[/quote]

Paltu, this is your Satpunthi mentality. The discussion is not about Imam/pir, it is about Imam Mustansirbillah second or third.
PEACOCK ( MORE ) JUB APNI KHUBSURATI DIKHANEY KE LIEY PARR UTHATA HAI TOU PECHHY SE NANGA HO JATA HAI, YEHI KUCHH TEREY SAATH HAI.

Paltu, this is your Satpunthi mentality. The discussion is not about Imam/pir, it is about Imam Mustansirbillah second or third.
PEACOCK ( MORE ) JUB APNI KHUBSURATI DIKHANEY KE LIEY PARR UTHATA HAI TOU PECHHY SE NANGA HO JATA HAI, YEHI KUCHH TEREY SAATH HAI.

Hurry up palti baaz, stop running away and answer why Imam sultan mohd shah said that said that Hazir Imam is 50th pir of all Ismaili

You should have recorded the asal Du'a recited by Shaikh Khodr and we have counted how many mistakes he did made!!

Oh boy oh boy what a way to change the topic when you don't have any answer.

Admin shut your mouth by giving you the proof that ismailis all around the world were reciting that gujarati dua including arab ismailis, and you don't have any answer so you immediately changed the topic to mistakes in reciting, so atleast you are accepting that arab ismailis were reciting asal dua with mistakes in pronunciation.

Beta jis school ma tum parhtay ho naa, waha k hum head master reh chuke hai.

ismaili103 wrote:

Paltu, this is your Satpunthi mentality. The discussion is not about Imam/pir, it is about Imam Mustansirbillah second or third.
PEACOCK ( MORE ) JUB APNI KHUBSURATI DIKHANEY KE LIEY PARR UTHATA HAI TOU PECHHY SE NANGA HO JATA HAI, YEHI KUCHH TEREY SAATH HAI.

Hurry up palti baaz, stop running away and answer why Imam sultan mohd shah said that said that Hazir Imam is 50th pir of all Ismaili

Tumhara nangapun dekh lia hai peacock jub tum ney apney rang barangi par uper uthhai thhe, may be your pirs have given such ethical ta'leem. You are a typical khoja/momina who jumps up and down in the boundry walls of their colonies. How brave you people are I know.
Question was not about 50th pir but it was about Pindiyat. Knowledge kum aur uchhal kudd ziada.

shivaathervedi wrote:As usual you dodged my important paragraph. Let me remind you. I wrote," It was you who in posts have refuted that 1000 years old philosophy that is of Fatimid period is not applicable in modern era, and asked you who are Huddud e Din now a days as you favored the statement of Rashidah.

Rashida in her article did not mention any Fatimid Hududs. She just mentioned one hudud - the Hujjah of the Imam, which was Bibi Khadija. The same notion of Hujja is applicable even today and is called the Pir. So she did not mention any outdated concepts.

shivaathervedi wrote: Regarding Bibi Khadijah I used references from Shia history where as your reference is Sunni point of view.
I think some insane Muslim will accept that Bibi was spiritual Mentor of Prophet. It is other way round. Just to prove your point that she was spiritual Mentor of Prophet, you people have no choice but to declare she was 15 years older than Prophet.
You did not shed light on 80,000 camels in possession of Bibi, True or False?
What about Waraqah ben Nawfal, was he an Ismaili Dai? Any historical proof.
Did Islam started to progress because of her and became universal Religion? You dogged these above questions!

Bibi Khadija is universally known to have been 15 years older than the Prophet. Any source whether Shia or Sunni will confirm that fact. Our Ismaili historians have also said that.

She did provide the sources from which she got the figure of 80,000 camels. Whether it is accurate or not, we know that she was a very wealthy woman. Most historians accept that.

About Waraqa based on her sources she writes:

"The dimension given in the esoteric literature is very different. Hadrat Khadija was the Hujjat of the Lord of the time and as such she was in charge of 30 dais who worked under her to spread the True Religion. Waraqah ibn Nawfal, her cousin was actually one of the dais working under her supervision."

I have no reason to doubt the above.

She supported the Prophet both materially and spiritually and therefore her contribution to Islam was vital.

shivaathervedi wrote: You misunderstood me or twisting my statement. I am not involved in Shia Sunni conflict and not a part of killer bees. ARE YOU?
You did not answer my question, I asked, is soul created as Shia soul or Sunni soul?
Imam's words are golden but any Shia group or Sunni group listening to it!!

You can view diversity as conflict or you can view diversity as a source of strength. It is upto you. Diversity is inherent in creation. It is the nature of creation as explained by The Aga Khan IV which I quoted in my last post. Although we are all created from one soul - the Universal Soul, each individual part is different. The Quran States:

Verse (49:13) - English Translation

Pickthall: O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.

Each soul goes through many cycles of rebirth and therefore is a product of the past lives. Therefore when he is born a Shia his soul has Shite tendencies and if he was born a Sunni, the soul has Sunni tendencies. We are born according to our past Karma.

shivaathervedi wrote:

ismaili103 wrote:

Paltu, this is your Satpunthi mentality. The discussion is not about Imam/pir, it is about Imam Mustansirbillah second or third.
PEACOCK ( MORE ) JUB APNI KHUBSURATI DIKHANEY KE LIEY PARR UTHATA HAI TOU PECHHY SE NANGA HO JATA HAI, YEHI KUCHH TEREY SAATH HAI.

Hurry up palti baaz, stop running away and answer why Imam sultan mohd shah said that said that Hazir Imam is 50th pir of all Ismaili

Tumhara nangapun dekh lia hai peacock jub tum ney apney rang barangi par uper uthhai thhe, may be your pirs have given such ethical ta'leem. You are a typical khoja/momina who jumps up and down in the boundry walls of their colonies. How brave you people are I know.
Question was not about 50th pir but it was about Pindiyat. Knowledge kum aur uchhal kudd ziada.

My Pir is Hazir Imam and he is also your Pir in short you're disrespecting Ali and Muhammad.

Hurry up answer it, Hazir Imam is 50th Pir of all ismaili. This question will remain there until you answer it because it was you who said that " Piratan is the concept of satpanthi".

If arab and central asian ismailis did not believe in the Piratan doesn't mean that Piratan is only for ismailis of sub continent origin. Most accurately arab's and C.A ismailis are ignorant or there buzurgs never teach them about Piratan, because out of 50 Pir till Hazir Imam there are only few Pir who give there service in subcontinent, most of the Pirs give there services in Arabia( in Daur e Arab ) , in north africa and in central asia. So Piratan is core concept of Ismailism.

It is normal to be excited and sometimes hurt about religion. But I see lately a lot of anger in postings, in the discussions leading to personal attacks from all sides and foul language. Please lets be civilised and keep away from such behaviour which serve no purpose.

ismaili103 wrote:

Kiddo read history properly out side Ismaili sources, equip with your self with proper knowledge than jump in to debate.

Bachay kaha bhag rha ha paltu...baat palat mat.

Answer me about the will of Imam sultan mohd shah in which he said Hazir Imam is 49th Imam and 50th Pir of ALL ISMAILIS

Ismaili History is all "made up on the fly "
Muhammad SAW was a Khatimun Nabi. Period.
There is no such thing as Pir in Islam

kmaherali wrote:

shivaathervedi wrote: You misunderstood me or twisting my statement. I am not involved in Shia Sunni conflict and not a part of killer bees. ARE YOU?
You did not answer my question, I asked, is soul created as Shia soul or Sunni soul?
Imam's words are golden but any Shia group or Sunni group listening to it!!
According to Muslim beliefs, Child is born as Muslim. Its parents who make them Shi,Sunni, Hindu or Christians etc etc.

The Quran States:

Verse (49:13) - English Translation

Pickthall: O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.

Each soul goes through many cycles of rebirth and therefore is a product of the past lives. Therefore when he is born a Shia his soul has Shite tendencies and if he was born a Sunni, the soul has Sunni tendencies. We are born according to our past Karma.

There is no such thing as past Karma in Islam.

zznoor wrote: Ismaili History is all "made up on the fly "
Muhammad SAW was a Khatimun Nabi. Period.
There is no such thing as Pir in Islam

Islam is pluralistic and there are many many interpretations. Pir is a well known concept in esoteric Islam.

zznoor wrote: There is no such thing as past Karma in Islam.

This subject has been dealt with intensively in the past. There are Qur'anic verses alluding to rebirth and reincarnation. There are scientific studies pointing to reincarnation. For more, please go to the thread:

Reincarnation in Islam
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=2548