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Dasoond / Dasond / Daswand
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad.
I feels the words are for inspiration of faith and not dictate the acts n life of Momin.It is only the the order of Imams to direct the act of momins.
All physical act of 1400/1000/700 year back have evolved to does the definaion in today times.
It the word only means hard currency or offering and sharing one's wealth for other.
I need the what imam has said not a Pir who lived 700 years back what should be content in/of offering.
I need from it Imams word,the ginan which are not spiritual other than A PIR,should not be
in forefront (means that away).
Today there mandatory taxes of the country which also in part for welfare of co citizens.
MHI values time n knowledge as the best nazrana for him.
He is seeking personal intellectual n resourceful wealth of Momin.
ALI sees firstly the intent,then ability, then wealth(not only currency)for cause of God/Imam and humanity.
Wealth changes hands but stays on earth ,not send off into universe.
If want to some to be interested ,I need to sell the idea of Intellect n meditation not a Fatwa of a appointed Pir dated 700 years old.
If one does that,they may consider one as lunatic.
Every word or words said by ALI need to see from sky level n not only from ground zero level.
We khojas are materially blessed today because of over average generosity of one wealth.
We are much much above 99% of the world population.
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mazharshah



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically 12.5% called Dasond is wrong. In out terminology Dasond means
10% or DHA YAK in Persian.It is true 10% had been religious obligation from time of Prophet Adam. In Wajhu Din Nasir Khusraw has mentiond Dha Yak means 10% in chapter Zakat. In Pandiyat i Jawanmardi, translated by Ivanow
on page 55, Imam Mustansirbillah's quote is, " Dha Yak belong to Imam,
Dha Yak has been established by Amir ul Mo'mineen Ali Murtaza". Dasond is mentioned more than 100 times in various Ginans. Now question is about 2.5%.There are two views on this. Pirs have mentioned in Ginans about CHALISMO/CHALISVO, means 2.5% belong to Pir of time. Past 100 years Imamat and Piratan is one that's why 12.5% belongs to Imam which he utilizes for benefit of mureeds and humanity. Some Ismailis say because Imamat and Piratan is one there fore 2.5% is considered as Zakat. My personal view is, 10%
Dasond and 2.5% is Zakat= 12.5%.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya ALI madad.
If one observes the pirantan.so many pir' s it they would have concentrated on preaching
Widely.
They wrote to to many poems. It was not needed.what was the intellect n literacy in india.
If two or three books can deliver the message why in hundred.
Their movement was slow ,as poor farmers already paid taxes to rulers then,they than added 2.5 as not to touch 10 % for ALI ,this was to maintain their entourage n build Jk etc.
Expect for one or two Pir,Did any Pir/syed worked or earned for its own living.
This is real observation, If they would have a strategy akin of Nasir Khusraw There would have been 10 times khojas today.
Dropout from khojas in past 700 year because the offering obligation pinched them.
Only ALI+lah= Allah is perfect.
So a level below of prophets n Pir are not immune for making mistakes.
If one sees for their 2.5% surcharge,they wrote more on that subject n may be less of spiritual essence.
That's why imam SMS said to indicating Only 'A' catergory of A named Pir.
So by default all category from B-Z and those names of B-Z should have gone to godown
Everybody in this forum is clash of ignorance to wise from 16.67% to low common sense at83.33 level of ignorance.
What would then MHI say such word in gathering of intellects in high Altar of Harvard.
Find that answer first rather than digging data of 1400/1000/700 year old.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5908

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:

Everybody in this forum is clash of ignorance to wise from 16.67% to low common sense at83.33 level of ignorance.


Still no one in this Forum can beat your level of ignorance which approaches 99.9% pure gold icon_smile.gif

Before commenting on Pirs who are entitled to 2.5% (Nassir Khusraw is not in the list of those entitled), at least read on what is the spiritual status of the PIR according to our faith anf try to understand why Hazar Imam is today the PIR of all Ismailis, not only of Khojas.

After that please come back to the appropriate thread for this discussion and we will wholeheartedly accept your apology for your misunderstanding and misrepresentation of a very basic principle in Ismaili faith.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad.
Whatever of 99% it could be.Gold has good value.
I am reffering appointed Pirs were not simelteniously Imams Also.
They prayed to Imam and we do not pray to them ,we are follow Imam dictates not to act n circumstances as seen in their mortal life.
The 90% stuff of the whole Team Wrote repetitive stuff.if Water is H2O then whey repeat
700 times.
In past narrow narration of the word offering did not see government taxes,indirect consumption taxes,charity and offering of physical n intellectual time.
It pissed of many then.
In a country like at high level salary upto 25% income is pre taxed n other 10% income goes in local tax of federal,state n city.
The nett for his or her family is 65% in hand.
The narrow narration would be 12.5% of 100%,
Even if the person pays 10% of 75%.,the government of Canada as responsible spend at least 15% of 35% that is 5% of 100.on less forunates and as aid to third world .
In eyes of God ,that person has full filled honestly all obligation his contribution to God plus in direct contribution to cause of humanity.
Time n circumstance have changed.
The person if offering any voluntary service to the cause of ALI n humanity has a ratio n implied value given by farman of IMAM SMS.
What current says is more important than a Pir dictated 700 years back.
Does anybody can tell what is the obligation set for Ismailia in China?
One is narrating rubbish of 1400 physical act and another parroting the acts dictated 700 years old.
They are dead n gone for good.they were not God.They said without civilized government n taxation systems in place then.
If all info on n from China is available on internet then no need to go China now.
What was valid then ,it is not reasonable now in many acts.
Has MHI spoke one word on it.but we have indicative majlis and his seeking time n knowledge offering,a human n intellectual capital valued at par of may be higher than financial offering.
99.5% of people do pay D to Imam,are they doomed to Hell.read the holy book properly.
ALI does accept at unseen to them their intent,offering at religious place,charity n genorousity.
Blinkered view is dangerous.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19661

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKU as a Channel for Zakat Expenditure

University Hospital15 Years of Health & Hope: The Patients’ Behbud Society for Aga Khan

| by ismailimail
|Posted on April 19, 2016
|Video


The Patients’ Behbud Society – assistance for financially disadvantaged – (PBS) for Aga Khan University Hospital held a celebratory dinner in appreciation of its donors for the generosity with which they donate their zakat to the PBS cause of helping patients’ in need as well as to mark their 15th year anniversary.

The event was held at the Aga Khan University main campus, Karachi and attended by many prestigious personalities including guest of honour attendees: renowned playwright Anwar Maqsood and brilliant TV and film actress, Bushra Ansari.

The Patients’ Behbud Society for Aga Khan University Hospital (PBS) was founded in 2001 by well-wishers of Aga Khan University Hospital (AKUH). Its main objective is to assist mustehiq (financially disadvantaged) patients to avail high quality health care at AKUH. The Society’s single source of funding is zakat contributions (and donations) received from individual donors and corporations. The faculty and staff members of AKU also contribute to PBS.

pbs.akuh.org
/ismailimail.wordpress.com/2016/04/19/15-years-of-health-hope-the-patients-behbud-society-for-aga-khan-university-hospital/
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19661

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Related threads on this subject...

Importance of DASOND
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=363&highlight=dasond

Concept of Sacrifice in the Context of Pluralism.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=354&highlight=dasond

Dasond
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=2111&highlight=dasond

Trouble Time
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=8464&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=dasond

The concept of Dasond is sikhism
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=7523&highlight=dasond

Dilema on Dasond (please help)
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=7391&highlight=dasond
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19661

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late Alwaez Shamsh Bandali Haji has outlined the main ideas relating to the significance of Dasond in his book : The Noor En Allah Noor which can be accessed online at: http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/15495.

The explanation of Dasond is on Page 283 onwards at: http://ismaili.net/heritage/files/NoorEnAllahNoor376-424.pdf
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my office colleague from Hunza told me that Ismailis of Gilgit Baltistan and Chitral pays 10% of their net income in Dasond and according to her they're told by MHI to do so.

Do we have any Farman or Taliqah related to this?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5908

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AS RECEIVED


"Dasond is the first of all duties. Without it there is no foundation just as without dua 2 minute each time there is no foundation for other prayers

Holy Talika Cannes 1948

*DASOND WHICH IS DERIVED FROM THE WORD "DASANT' IS ZAKAH + KHUMS IN SHIA TERMINOLOGY WHICH COMES FROM
QURANIC AYAT AL-GHANIMA SURA 8:41 SPOILS OF WAR OR PROFIT. QURAN MENTIONS ZAKAH ENJOINED WITH SALAH

(PRAYER) IN 82 AYATS AS A RELIGIOUS DUTY.


Reminder to be regular in our Dasond.
Here are a few verses of Anant Akhado on the significance of Dasond with
English translation and meaning. Worth reading..
and preserving for future references and explaining
to other members of the Jamat.

“Aashaji pa(n)chmi baari Dasondni kahiye, te sahuthi moti janoji;

Te ma(n)he tame rahejo hushiyar, to raheso Gurnar ne saath.

(Anant Akhado, verse: 256)”.



Meaning: O’ momin, the fifth window is that of submitting Dasond to your Lord. Be very careful and do not forget that it is the most important of all windows. If you remain regular and consistent in the practice of Dasond; then you will stay with your ‘Gurnar’ in both worlds (this and the next one that is the spiritual world).



Aashaji gurgat ganga ma(n)he amej betha, partak gurnar awtarji;

Kamavo je tamari rozi, te ma(n)he thi Dasond aalo (348).



Meaning: O’ momin, in the Jamatkhana we are seated as your Lord who has been manifested in a human form. Whatever you earn in your life, give Dasond from that earning to your Lord. Here it is evident that Dasond is to be submitted from one’s income because this is our sustenance which is provided by God. Therefore, as an appreciation we are submitting part of it to in the way of God. But pertinent questions arise such as how much do we pay? To whom we pay, since God has no form and He is not visible to our naked eyes, so where to find God? Answers to these questions are also provided by the Pir as he says in the next verse:

Dasond Sahebji ne aaljoji, pachhi jamjo te chokhu dhan re”.

Thus by paying Dasond momin becomes clean and purified, and what ever he eats after submitting the Dasond becomes clean and pure.

For example, in the verse 106 Pir says:

Aashaji thud Dasond ne muraj dharm, fal te munivar janoji;



Meaning: O’ momin, Dasond is like the bark of a tree, whereas religion is its roots, and the momins or believers are its fruits. This is also evident from Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah’s Farman in which He says: “Dasond veena dharma no payoj nathi”, that is, without Dasond there is no foundation for religion.

In other verses Pir explains the meaning of Dasond, the amount we are required to give from our income, and who is entitled to receive it from the momins. In the following verses Pir says:

Aashaji gurgat ganga ma(n)he amej betha, partak gurnar awtarji;

Kamavo je tamari rozi, te ma(n)he thi Dasond aalo (348).



Meaning: O’ momin, in the Jamatkhana we are seated as your Lord who has been manifested in a human form. Whatever you earn in your life, give Dasond from that earning to your Lord. Here it is evident that Dasond is to be submitted from one’s income because this is our sustenance which is provided by God. Therefore, as an appreciation we are submitting part of it to in the way of God. But pertinent questions arise such as how much do we pay? To whom we pay, since God has no form and He is not visible to our naked eyes, so where to find God? Answers to these questions are also provided by the Pir as he says in the next verse:

Aashaji Dasond dasmi panti aalo, dosh ma rakho bhari;

Das avtare dasmi panti, emhi Dasond lakhani (349).



Meaning: O’ momin Dasond is prescribed as 10% of your income and he advices that in submitting the Dasond do not cheat or keep debt on your head, because by not paying an accurate amount as your Dasond you are committing a sin and for this you have to give an account on the Day of Judgment. Further he explains that presently God is manifested in a human form and this is His 10th manifestation (Awtar) for each manifestation 1% was prescribed and since this is the 10th one, we pay 10%.

Further, in the following verse, he provides an explanation on who we should pay Dasond to and who is the right authority to accept the Dasond:

Aashaji nar naklanki takhatej betha, tene Dasond aaloji;

Dasond deve te sarge jawe, awar te sarve thotha (350).

Meaning: In the above verse Pir says: ‘nar nakalanki (the Imam of the time) who is seated on the throne (of Imamat), submit Dasond to Him as He is entitled to accept the Dasond from His murids or followers. One who gives Dasond goes to paradise and all others remains out of it.

Therefore, the questions arise who is the Imam and why He is entitled to receive the Dasond? If we examine the history of Islam we will find that during the time of Prophet Muhammad, He had the authority to collect Zakat and booties from the wars that Muslims had won. This was called Khums. He in turn was entitled to distribute this wealth among his followers specially those who were poor, orphans and wayfarers. In this respect the Quran says:

“And know that whatever of war booty that you may gain, verily, one fifth (1/5) of it is assigned to Allah and to Messenger (and also) the orphans, al-masakin (the poor) and the wayfarer… (8:41)

Aashaji shah na deedar takhate bes se, ti(n)ya dasondnu puchhe ji;

Jibrail ti(n)ya puchh wane awe, Dasond weena sarve jootha. (358)



Meaning: On the Day of Judgment God will be seated on the thrown and He will ask about the submission of Dasond. At that time an angel Gabriel (Jibril) will come to each one of us and will ask us whether we have submitted our Dasond or not. Based on this practice we will be judged as a true momin or a false one. Therefore to be a true satpanthi momin we have to submit our Dasond accurately. Imam Ali Shah Datar in this respect says:

“You may perform the bandgi for thousand years but if your submission of Dasond is faulty then your Ibadat or Bandgi will not be accepted by Allah. So be accurate in submitting Dasond, calculate it every day because you will be asked on the Day of Judgment by angel Jibrail about submission of your Dasond” (Farman #9. Mumbai, 1874). In similar way Pir explains in the verse 155,

Aashaji khara khota na parkha thase, tame muniwar cheti ne chaloji;

Dasond veena mur ukhadi jase, jase te ghor andhar.

Meaning: O’ momin the day God will test true momin from the false ones. So O’ my brothers you should be careful in your religious duties. The roots of your religious beliefs depend on submission of Dasond and without it your beliefs will be uncovered, just like open roots, which will eventually get destroyed and your soul will go into a great darkness



Aashaji Dasond deta jivaj chute, Paho(n)che sarag duwar;

Bhave sagar na fera chute, jo deve Dasond daan.



Meaning: O’ momin if you give Dasond then you will free your soul from the cycles of the birth and death. In doing this you will also reach to the door of the paradise. By giving Dasond you will be able to cross the ocean of this life that is known as ‘Bhavesagar’

Aashaji Dasond fal daynu(n) jano, dil vichari ne chaloji;

Dasond khai je momen hoshe, te hoshe Kawravo ni jodji. (353)



Meaning: in this verse Pir says, Dasond is the fruit of mercy so think deeply about it and act upon it, because those who fail to pay the Dasond are friends of those 100 brothers (Kawravo) who committed numerous sins against their cousins (Pandavo-the five brothers); who were on the true path.[8] Here to be the friends of Kawravos means to be not only on the wrong path but to be against the truth and paying Dasond is the greatest truth, which keeps us on the right path and it keeps us away from evil thoughts and actions.

Further, Pir explains in the verse 354 that:

Aashaji dhandho karwa duniya ma(n)he aviya, leva aap deedarji;

Nav pa(n)ti tame lai ne chalo, dasmi narji ne aaloji.



Meaning: giving Dasond is like doing a business of selling and purchasing. For example, by giving Dasond you are buying the deedar of your Imam, and for this reason you have taken the birth in this world. Pir further explains that it is like a contract of sale and purchase in which you keep 90% of your income for your own livelihood and pay 10% to your Imam for his personal needs, and in return you will get illuminated vision (the deedar) of your Imam or you will see illuminated light of God. Without submission of Dasond none of these can be achieved by a human being.

In similar manner Pir in the verse 357 says:

Aashaji Dasond deve ane sidke raheve, ehi moman sachaji;

Aado marag teone nahi, ne bhetiya shah na deedar.



Meaning: O’ momin one who is regular in submitting pure Dasond is known as true believer. He or she will never go astray and leave the straight path. Such person will have Imam’s Deedar.

For those who do not submit their Dasond or pays God’s share from their income, Pir warn them in many verses. For example, in the verses 359-365 he explains in detail:

Aashaji kiriya kidhi and dharm-e chaliya, saati hua apaarji;

Saat sarag ma te jiv pohoto, pan ooncho te nahi jaye ji.

Meaning: there is one who followed the religion very carefully; he or she is known as true person. Such soul will reach to the paradise but will not elevate to a higher state of Fana fi Allah. Since he failed to submit the Dasond his soul was not freed from the cycles of death and birth.

Further Pir says in the verse 362:

Aashaji Dasond na deve gur ne na mane, te Nar kiyan thaki pameji;

Dasond veena te ookhadi jashe, te jashe chovees karod manhe.

Meaning: O momin one who fails to give Dasond and also fails to believe in the Imam of the time or the divine guide, then how can he find the true Imam or true Nar? Without Dasond he will loose his belief in true religion and he will join those 240 millions who accepted Ismailism in the time of Imam Islam shah but lost their opportunity to free their souls as they fail to understand importance of Dasond and fail to pay Dasond. (Verse 363).

In addition, Pir says in the verse 367:

Aashaji kupatre daan khara jano, Dasond veena nahi laveji;

Kalarmanhe jem mehaj varse, tenu dhan na thai.



Meaning: O’ Momin you can not give your Dasond or charity to unworthy person as it will not bear any fruits. It is like the rain comes at the time when the season of planting seeds is over then there will not be any harvesting.



In conclusion, I would like to quote an important verse from the Ginan ‘Satveni ni vel’ composed by Syed Noormohammad Shah Bin Imam Shah[9] who says:

Je koi Dasond na deve joog ma(n)he, Ooska haal eyu(n) thaya;

Baki nav panti howe lakadi, Dasmi narji ki aag tapani.

Navpanti ku jalakar deve, dasmi aap sab aagaj howe.

Meaning: O’ Momin, in this world if someone fails to pay Dasond then his or her situation is in which 90 % of income which one should have kept it for his own use becomes dry sticks or dry branches and 10% becomes a spark that burns 90% of income.

Here the moral of a lesson is that if you think you are saving 10% of your income but in reality this 10% act as a spark and burns everything you have. Therefore, momins do not play with the spark of fire that will burn down your 100% of earnings and without it all your prayers, Ibadat, bandgi, charity, good deeds and zikr will not bear any fruits what so ever. Hence you will also loose the spiritual benefits of all good deeds, prayers, bandgi, du’a, zikr, fasting, Hajj and charity. By submitting 10% you will not become poor materially or spiritually. Infect, by paying 10% you will be saving 90% of your earnings and at the same time you will gain the benefit of getting 125000 times more in this world as well as in the next one too. This is explicitly confirmed by the Pir in the verse 459.
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swamidada



Joined: 19 Aug 2019
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With reference to article Dasond as received, it is mentioned in the following paragraph "Dasond is ZAKAH+KHUMS". I don't think it is a correct notion. In Islam Zakah is two and half percent and Khums is five percent is equal to seven and a half percent, where as Ismailis pay 12.5%.
"DASOND WHICH IS DERIVED FROM THE WORD "DASANT' IS ZAKAH + KHUMS IN SHIA TERMINOLOGY WHICH COMES FROM
QURANIC AYAT AL-GHANIMA SURA 8:41 SPOILS OF WAR OR PROFIT. QURAN MENTIONS ZAKAH ENJOINED WITH SALAH".


In Wajhu Din Nasir Khusraw has mentiond Dha Yak means 10% in chapter Zakat. In Pandiyat i Jawanmardi, translated by Ivanow
on page 55, Imam Mustansirbillah's quote is, " Dha Yak belong to Imam,
Dha Yak has been established by Amir ul Mo'mineen Ali Murtaza".

Hence Ismailis pay Dha Yak i.e 10% + 2.5% Zakah= 12.5%.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5908

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
"Dasond is the first of all duties. Without it there is no foundation just as without dua 2 minute each time there is no foundation for other prayers

Holy Talika Cannes 1948.



The complete reference of this Talika is: Cannes 5 February 1948 p.69 from the section "Mubarak Talika ane Sandesho" of the book "Mowlana Hazar Imam na Pavitra Farman tatha Mubarak Sandeshao" published in Dar es Salaam 1950, first edition of 2,000 copies published jointly by Ismailia Association for Tanganyika, Kenya and Uganda.
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swamidada



Joined: 19 Aug 2019
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ismailis pay Dah Yak 10% + Zakah 2.5%= 12.5%
Dah Yak 10% is Dasond, what phrase shall we use technically for 12.5%.
In my opinion we can call 'Dasond wa Zakah'. It will clear wrong impression in non Ismailis who usually say Imam is charging them 12.5% of earnings.
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