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Dasoond / Dasond / Daswand
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shahnazbarker



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:33 am    Post subject: Dasoond / Dasond / Daswand Reply with quote

YAM<BR><BR>I would like to know can we give dasoond to needy person if we he/she is going to use for good.<BR><BR>Please let me know. Its just a question.
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Dasoond Reply with quote

shahnazbarker wrote:
YAM<BR><BR>I would like to know can we give dasoond to needy person if we he/she is going to use for good.<BR><BR>Please let me know. Its just a question.



Dasondh should only be given to Mukhisaheb/kamadiasaheb/mukhiani/kamadiani saheba..
Outside of that..it should only be given to whom the Imam designates...
Once you have given your dasondh to the Imam's representative..it doesn't matter what they do with it...you have fulfilled your obligation to the Imam.

Outside of Dasondh..you may make charitable contributions to whomsoever you like..however you can not replace that with Dasondh.

Shams
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shahnazbarker



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yam

Thank you very much for your reply.

I knew that but people were asking me question that's why I got bit muddle and wanted to know more detail about Dasoond.

They ask me why do we have to give to Mukhi Sahed, Its too much money, how do you know they are using for good cause etc etc which makes me upset.

We believe and its our faith and no argument on that once we have given to Mowla's representative its them to decide and I dont want to know where they spent and what do they do. But how to explain those who ask very stupid questions.
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shahnazbarker wrote:
Yam

Thank you very much for your reply.

I knew that but people were asking me question that's why I got bit muddle and wanted to know more detail about Dasoond.

They ask me why do we have to give to Mukhi Sahed, Its too much money, how do you know they are using for good cause etc etc which makes me upset.

We believe and its our faith and no argument on that once we have given to Mowla's representative its them to decide and I dont want to know where they spent and what do they do. But how to explain those who ask very stupid questions.


Easy..very Easy.
It's a farman of the Imam...we have given baiyat to follow the farman..
Imam's farman is give dasondh to Mukhisaheb..we do that..no questions...
We shouldn't care what they do with it.
In Jamat Khana..the M/S and K/S are direct representatives of the Imam..they are appointed by him.

Shams.
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shahnazbarker



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Shams<BR><BR>Thanks for your help and guidance. I agree with you.<BR><BR>I was just confused.<BR><BR>yam<BR><BR>
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Aeesta



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M/S and K/S have responsibilities to carry out as per MHI's instructions.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19650

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, there are two aspects of Dasond: the Batini and the Zaheri.
The Batini aspect is the essential one and it deals with the inner aspect of our souls. It purifies our souls. That is what should matter to us.

The Zaheri aspect is what we would call charity. That is the external manifestation of Dasond. That is the responsibility of the Imam of the time. He is best aware of who is most deserving of the charity and hence is responsible for the disbursement of the Dasond. Once we submit Dasond we should not be concerned about how it is spent.
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logical



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: The Sad Sorry State of Zakat Reply with quote

The sad story of Zakat

The Punjab minister for Zakat and Ushr, Mian Khadim Hussain Wattoo, has stated in the Punjab Assembly that around 150 cases came to the government’s notice during 2003-4 in which various chairmen of Zakat committees distributed Zakat funds among their relatives. The money thus embezzled had exceeded Rs 7 million. He said 88 cases had been registered but only two men accused of hanky-panky had been arrested and a mere Rs 88,000 recovered. Some time back, a similar round of embezzlement of Zakat funds took place in Sindh, leading to a loss of Rs 40 million.

Exploiting Islam in everyday life is rife but what we have done with the Quranic taxation of Zakat is unforgivable. The clergy obliged first by being literalist and hidebound about the uses to which Zakat could be put. That resulted in the state getting scared and deciding that money collected as Zakat had to be distributed among the needy rather than being spent on building something for the employment, education and livelihood of the poor.Thus scores of billions of rupees deducted from the savings accounts of unwilling depositors and institutions were lost every year because the Zakat committees (running into thousands) ate up the collection at the district level. Then the government, overwhelmed by corruption, stopped distribution for three years in the 1990s, but the collection never stopped and there was a Zakat mountain to disburse in 1999. Meanwhile the Supreme Court took pity on the Sunni Muslims and made the deduction voluntary as in the case of the Shias.

This notion of Zakat was rotten from the start. A sympathetic scholar, who has studied the system, comes to the conclusion that religious laws tend to remain unopposed and un-amended even when their enforcement requires amendment because the clergy is unwilling to change the status quo. In this case, the working of the Central Zakat Administration, responsible for Zakat and Ushr, has never been as transparent as required. There is a tendency to withhold the real statistics of collection and disbursement on the basis of some religious edict or the other. (A federal officer absconded to London with a billion rupees of Zakat money and it couldn’t even be disclosed). None of the “objectives” laid out in the Zakat and Ushr Ordinance 1980, like elimination of poverty and beggary, and the creation of a welfare state, were achieved, although up to three percent poverty alleviation could have been achieved in a country where 40 percent of the population lives below the poverty line.

The 1995 decision to ‘federalise’ Zakat funds and stop disbursements for three years was based on the general perception that the system was shot through with corruption:

--The government dishonestly used the accumulated sum for other mundane purposes. Indeed, from 1995 until 1999, the governments of Pakistan used Zakat money to help solve their liquidity crisis and to help pay for “other priorities” of patronage and power.

--The situation acquired farcical dimensions when the deduction of Zakat compelled many Sunnis to declare themselves Shias so that their accounts wouldn’t be taxed. The Shias don’t pay because of the edict that “only a legitimate successor to Muhammad (peace be upon him) can collect Zakat”.

--Although Syed Sunnis pay Zakat they are not qualified to receive it on the basis of a hadith. The non-payment under affidavits of faith was so widespread that the Supreme Court of Pakistan stepped in and made exemption possible for the Sunnis also.

Under General Musharraf, the religion minister Dr Mahmud Ghazi took upon himself the role of reforming and improving the Zakat and Ushr system:

--Fifteen billion rupees had accumulated over the past years because of non-disbursement, one year normally yielding four billion rupees. He could increase the monthly payments to deserving individuals and even create small jobs for them as he declared in a TV interview.

--He wanted to carry out ijtihad to increase the rate of Ushr (this could mean imposing a 10 percent levy on irrigated lands) and then replace the planned agricultural tax with it.

--But nothing came from his efforts and he was made the butt of unseemly jokes from the clerical community that was now baying for General Musharraf’s blood because of his perceived Kemalist outlook. For all these reasons Zakat today continues to be the biggest sin of Pakistan as a religious community.

We all know that Zakat committees, like the local bodies, are nurseries where corrupt politicians in power bring up their future heirs. If there are lessons to learn about corruption one simply has to look at what the national press wrote about the dirt that flew out of the ruling party’s internecine struggle during the last local bodies’ elections to get the juicy bits to suck at from offices meant for the people’s welfare.

Zakat committees are a part of this evil spoils system. This is where the first lessons of embezzlement are learnt. Later on, thanks to Zakat, we get corrupt politicians who dishonour each other through Ehtesab Bureaus. But even if we were to turn honest overnight, the interpretation we have placed on how Zakat is to be distributed will reduce the project of looking after the poor to a nullity. As things stand, disbursements can only be made to individuals and, funnily, to madrassas on the basis of a list of individual seminarians.

Hospitals are enabled to look after the poor and collect the cost from the Zakat Fund, but if a Pakistani national is not a Muslim he can’t be helped. This is how Zakat actually declassifies a full constitutional citizen of Pakistan to a lower status. And if you have fallen on bad times and you happen to be a Syed, you can’t get Zakat, while the chairman of the Zakat committee can gorge on it and hand it around to his relatives too. This is a sad story but there is nothing we Muslims can do about it unless we wake up from the unrealistic dreams of our clerics who want to dominate the world with their backward notions of governance. *

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\06\15\story_15-6-2006_pg3_1
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19650

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sad Sorry State of Zakat Reply with quote

logical wrote:
The sad story of Zakat



This is indeed sad. It is no wonder that many non-Ismailis contribute to our institutions such as the AKU as a better avenue for philanthropy. MHI mentioned in one of his speeches that the financial base of the AKU is broadening and there is a greater participation from outside our community. If this trend continues then the AKU and other Imamat institutions will be non communal civil society institutions in their truest sense.
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logical



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: The Sad Sorry State of Zakat Reply with quote

Pls allow me to expand re:Ushr from the post The sad story of Zakat:

Quote:


He wanted to carry out ijtihad to increase the rate of Ushr (this could mean imposing a 10 percent levy on irrigated lands) and then replace the planned agricultural tax with it.

But nothing came from his efforts and he was made the butt of unseemly jokes from the clerical community that was now baying for General Musharraf’s blood because of his perceived Kemalist outlook. For all these reasons Zakat today continues to be the biggest sin of Pakistan as a religious community.


Islam in its essence requires Ushr to be paid by the Sunnis and it is not an Kemalist outlook or Innovation. The shias are exempt because they have different system of contribution to Bait ul Mal.

Zakat and Ushr Ordinance, 1980 applied to Muslim citizens of Pakistan only; the rate of Ushr, a form of Zakat levied on land produce,
--is 5% in the case of irrigated land,
--10% for rain-fed land.
--The rate is 20% for the produce of forests and mines.

The difference in the rates is in inverse proportion to the human labour and cost involved in the production of the various items.

The enforcement of Ushr in Pakistan has not been satisfactory or, nobody wants to pay it.
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logical



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: The Sad Sorry State of Zakat Reply with quote

logical wrote:
The sad story of Zakat

Exploiting Islam in everyday life is rife but what we have done with the Quranic taxation of Zakat is unforgivable. The clergy obliged first by being literalist and hidebound about the uses to which Zakat could be put. That resulted in the state getting scared and deciding that money collected as Zakat had to be distributed among the needy rather than being spent on building something for the employment, education and livelihood of the poor.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\06\15\story_15-6-2006_pg3_1


Ever wondered why Zakat funds are always distributed but never invested into creating productive assets and/or uses to eliminate dependency, poverty.

The answer is simple:
In the 7th century there was no concept of Development or Creating Employment. And, for most, Islam means -literally following the prophetic traditions of the 7th century and as such Distributing fish to the needy is charity but never using the zakat funds to teach the needy- How to fish and equipping him with the tools or building hospitals & schools.
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kinnare786



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does any one know the word use in Quran for Zakat?
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GMR



Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:16 pm    Post subject: Zakat Reply with quote

Az-zakah (Arabic) and Zakat (Urdu).

And we made them (descendants of Abraham) leaders, guiding by Our command, and We sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular Prayers and to practice Zakah (alms); and they constantly served us. (Holy Quran 21:73).

Establish regular prayer and give Zakah (alms); and obey Allah and His messenger. (Holy Quran 33:33).

2.5% Zakah on savings per full lunar year (in Sunni Islam)
5% Khums on savings per full lunar year (in Shia Islam); and
10% plus 2.5% (12.5%) on total income by Ismailis.

Actually 10% which Ismailis give to their Imam of the Time is called 'Ushr' as was prevalent in the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and 2.5% is zakat.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19650

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: Zakat Reply with quote

GMR wrote:

Actually 10% which Ismailis give to their Imam of the Time is called 'Ushr' as was prevalent in the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and 2.5% is zakat.


Dasond is not derived from the Quran. It was there since the beginning just as Ismailism was there since the beginning as per the following verse of Ashaji.

Aashaajee Sun-kaall maanhe thee rachanaa keedhee
tees deen dasond leekhaannee jee
Gur geenaan ved vichaaro
to dasond veena nahee chhuto............Haree anant..356

Oh Lord From the primordial void the Lord created the universe
it is from that day the practice of the tithe has been
established
If you reflect upon the guidance of the Guide and the
scriptures including the ginaans and the vedas
you will realise that without the tithe , the salvation
of the soul is not possible
Haree You are eternal...

There has been discussion on this subject in this forum at:

anecdotes --> Importance of Dasond
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Virgo2



Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tithe, Ushr, Dasond are all mentioned in the Bible, Qur'an and Ismaili Ginans. Khums is also mentioned in the Qur'an.

Ithanas are mandated to pay Ushr and Khums. Ushr is 10% and Khums is 1/5th. If you go to al-Islam.org and type in Khums and Ushr you will get the relevant information from the Ithanasheri site.

Ushr, Dasond are payable to Imam of the time and nobody else. If people decide on their own to pay to the poor or some sheikh, then they can do so but they have to also pay to the Imam of the Time. As an Ismaili one has to submit Dasond to the Imam only. In the Code of Conduct, Kazi Nauman has explained this very nicely. He refers to Zakat as the Amanat of the Imam.

He says: "...Realise the significane of the proper use of what God has entrusted with you....Those who are not convinced are the oppressors and defiers of God.....In addition to the zakat, the momins are required to pay the "khums", the one-fifth of their earnings. The Holy Quran says: Bear in mind that of whatever you earn the fifth part belongs to God, the Prophet and his relatives, the orphans, the poor and the way-farers....Imam Jafar Sadiq greetings be on him says: The Khums belongs to us, the Imams. The people have no share with us in it". The sentence "the one-fifth belongs to God means it is to be given away for the sake of God and for a reward from Him. It is meant for the Prophet in his life time and after him it is meant for the Imams from his Ahle-bait."

He further states: This "khums or the 'zakat' which God has enjoined on you to pay does not belong to you. It is not a part of your property. It is the "amanat" of God and the Prophet, in your hands. God has warned you in His holy book against the misappropriation of "amanat". He says,

O momins, do not deceive God or the Prophet, and do not mis-appropriate the "amanat" in general. You know (the consequence).

Through the Mercy of our Imam we, Ismailis, are required to pay Ushr and zakat. However, there are Ismailis who also pay Khums with the permission of the Imam.

Virgo2
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GMR



Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Dawand/Khums Reply with quote

Virgo2:

Paying khums by Ismailis, whether it's right or wrong is another issue, but it is not obligatory for Ismailis. The 1/5th which you are reffering to, is regarding booty (ma'li ghaneemat) in war, in which muslim soldiers occupy on it from unblievers.

We all must know that there are many many Ismailis around the globe, who pay daswand to the Khalifa of Allah @ 10%, 12.5%, 20% and even 100% on their income to purify their soul and please their Creator and their Imam-e-Zaman. The more we pay, the more we can expect from our Creator on the Day of Judgement.

"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing, the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things".

Holy Quran (8:41)
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Virgo2



Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear GMR,


Quote:
Paying khums by Ismailis, whether it's right or wrong is another issue, but it is not obligatory for Ismailis. The 1/5th which you are reffering to, is regarding booty (ma'li ghaneemat) in war, in which muslim soldiers occupy on it from unblievers.


I did not say paying Khums is right or wrong. I quoted Kazi Nauman who quoted Imam Jafar As Sadiq. As regards the Ma’li Ghanimat, Kazi Nauman has said: It is the duty of every "momin" to pay one-fifth of his earnings to the Imam of the time. It must be borne in mind that the word 'ghanimat' used in the above verses does not necessarily mean the spoils of 'jehad'. It applies to everything that a man earns. Imam Jafar Sadiq, greetings be on him, says "God has made it obligatory for the 'momins' to pay us one fifth of their earnings. It belongs to us as a matter of right. He who denies us this right and does not give us our share will have no claim on God and will get no reward from Him".

Pooya Ali's commentary (an Ithna) on the said 8:41 is as follows:

KHUMS MEANS ONE FIFTH.
Ghanayam means the property, movable and immovable, surrendered by the enemy in any battle. Verse 1 of this surah has already stated that it belongs to Allah and the Holy Prophet. Although the Sunni jurists have restricted its meaning to the spoils of war, but actually, according to Shia scholars, on every profit obtained by trade and labour, or from mines, or from sea or by means mentioned in the books of fiqh, payment of khums is obligatory, because as per the rules of lexicography the word ghanimat applies to all these things. Well-known commentators like Razi and Qartabi admit that the real meaning of ghanimat does not justify its restriction to the spoils of war only. ...According to this verse out of every profit, from wherever it comes, including the spoils of wars, khums has to be paid, because both ma (a relative pronoun-mawsulah) and shay are of a general nature and carry no restrictions.



Quote:
We all must know that there are many many Ismailis around the globe, who pay daswand to the Khalifa of Allah @ 10%, 12.5%, 20% and even 100% on their income to purify their soul and please their Creator and their Imam-e-Zaman. The more we pay, the more we can expect from our Creator on the Day of Judgement.


I agree with you. I know people who give 20%, 50% and 75% and lead a very simple life. I know Christians who give 60%, especially the Priests.

I said in my post that our Imam has decided that we should pay 12.5 as our Dasond whereas Khums is not compulsory for us. May be it was compulsory during Imam Jafar Sadiq's time and hence the Ithnas, who separated from us after Imam Jafar Sadiq have continued the tradition.

Sometime back, in another forum somebody had stated that “his wife” had said that Imam has lots of money so she had decided to give her part of dasond to a family in need. This is wrong. Nobody has a right to use the “amanat” of Imam as they please. When we do bayat we say everything that we own and have belongs to the Imam. So how can one decide who should be beneficiary of our dasond money? Dasond money is not ours to begin with. Yes, after taking out our dasond we can give sadaqah to the family in need but certainly not dasond which is Imam’s right only.

In the Anant Akhado (may be somebody can quote the verse here), Dasond is considered to be the foundation of our faith. It is compared to a tree. When the roots are dead (foundation) the stems, leaves and fruits will die out. Without Dasond our prayers, Ibadat, sadaqah, rozas are useless and waste of time.

Everyday we recite in our Dua, part 4 and 5 for Allah to bless us with our rozi in the name of our Prophet and our Imams. Allah S.W.T. gives us our rozi and we have to obey Him and surrender Ushr to Him, the Prophet and the Imam as He has decreed.
Virgo2
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mordant



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....

Last edited by mordant on Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total
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mordant



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just trying to understand this whole concept of Dasoond.

We are Ismaili Muslim and therefore we pay

10% to our Imam
and 2.5% for Zakaat (charity) to our Imam as well
thus = 12.5%?

So I am going to assume there is a SPECIFIC reference in Quran saying that a Muslim should pay Zakaat and if so, it should be 2.5%?

Which Imam started the concept of paying 10%? I mean if Quran stated to pay 2.5% and later on after xx amount of imam it was stated to pay 10%?
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ShamsB



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1118

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mordant wrote:
Just trying to understand this whole concept of Dasoond.

We are Ismaili Muslim and therefore we pay

10% to our Imam
and 2.5% for Zakaat (charity) to our Imam as well
thus = 12.5%?

So I am going to assume there is a SPECIFIC reference in Quran saying that a Muslim should pay Zakaat and if so, it should be 2.5%?

Which Imam started the concept of paying 10%? I mean if Quran stated to pay 2.5% and later on after xx amount of imam it was stated to pay 10%?


Correction the 2.5% is NOT CHARITY.
It is the RIGHT OF THE PIR.
We pay that to the PIR..and in this age and time, Shah Karim is both the 49th IMAM and the 50th PIR of the Ismailies.

Shams
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mordant wrote:
So I am going to assume there is a SPECIFIC reference in Quran saying that a Muslim should pay Zakaat and if so, it should be 2.5%?

Which Imam started the concept of paying 10%? I mean if Quran stated to pay 2.5% and later on after xx amount of imam it was stated to pay 10%?


The Quran does not specify the amount of Zakat to be payed. That was prescribed by the Prophet.

According to Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah, the Quranic term Ushr (10%) should be interpreted as Dasond.

The concept of Dasond was established since creation. You will find the appropriate giannic references if you go through this thread in its entirety.
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st0necol



Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...now the Jamat is growing and in big jamatkhanas there is more rush so if one submits his/her dasond to the other dua parts which act as subsitute to Mukhi/Kamadia parts. Is it acceptable? If we submit our dasond to them ?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

st0necol wrote:
Hmm...now the Jamat is growing and in big jamatkhanas there is more rush so if one submits his/her dasond to the other dua parts which act as subsitute to Mukhi/Kamadia parts. Is it acceptable? If we submit our dasond to them ?


Absolutely! Why not. Most of the time I end up performing all my duties at the 'sides' beacuse the 'centre' is too overly subscribed.
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arshad1988



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Bibi Fatima's Tasbih Reply with quote

I believe it is said that the story of Bibi Fatima's tasbi goes as follows: Bibi Fatima and Hazrat Ali were very poor and one day Bibe Fatima was very exhausted and could not continue to do the work. At the same time Hazrat Ali worked very hard collecting firewood, irrigating other peoples lands by drawing water from the wells which caused chest pains , . Hazrat Ali then tells her to go to her father, the Prophet, in order to receive a servant to help around the house. When Bibi Fatima approached her father to ask for a servant, he told her that he could give her one if she'd like, but he could giver her something better than the world and everything that it encompassed, where she agrees and he gives her the 3 forms of zikr :

"Allahu Akbar - Allah is greater, SubhanAllah - Glory be to Allah, and Alhamdulillah - All Praise is due to Allah"

Now if it was known that Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fatima were very poor, how is it that Dasond is comprised of two parts: 10% given to Shah and 2.5% given to Pir. At that time the Prophet had servants, and had the ability to offer them a servant, indicating he was more well off than them at that time. However, should not it have been the other way around if 10% of 12.5% were to be given to Hazrat Ali?
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Bibi Fatima's Tasbih Reply with quote

arshad1988 wrote:
I believe it is said that the story of Bibi Fatima's tasbi goes as follows: Bibi Fatima and Hazrat Ali were very poor and one day Bibe Fatima was very exhausted and could not continue to do the work. At the same time Hazrat Ali worked very hard collecting firewood, irrigating other peoples lands by drawing water from the wells which caused chest pains , . Hazrat Ali then tells her to go to her father, the Prophet, in order to receive a servant to help around the house. When Bibi Fatima approached her father to ask for a servant, he told her that he could give her one if she'd like, but he could giver her something better than the world and everything that it encompassed, where she agrees and he gives her the 3 forms of zikr :

"Allahu Akbar - Allah is greater, SubhanAllah - Glory be to Allah, and Alhamdulillah - All Praise is due to Allah"

Now if it was known that Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fatima were very poor, how is it that Dasond is comprised of two parts: 10% given to Shah and 2.5% given to Pir. At that time the Prophet had servants, and had the ability to offer them a servant, indicating he was more well off than them at that time. However, should not it have been the other way around if 10% of 12.5% were to be given to Hazrat Ali?


Interesting question !
This story may be contrary to the anecdote given in Moman Chetamni by Syed Imam Shah, according to which Hazrat Ali and Fatima had servants namely Khalak, Khudabaksh, Sadak, Abdurasool.

If this story is correct than also, all the money was used to help poor people. I dont think it was used for personal use. There is a story that once one woman said bad about Mawiya, she was brought to her. Mawiya asked her do you praise Ali and dislike me. The woman replied yes. Mawiya gave her lot of precious gifts from baitul maal. Mawiya said to her see you hate me yet I have given you so many gifts. But listen carefully, if it was Ali, then he would not have treated you so.
Woman replied : Yes I know this very well. Ali would not have given me a single penny from baitul maal for this.
Mawiya was speechless from this unexpected reply. The goods in baitul maal were used to help the needy people.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heartbreakkid wrote:
im jus curious !

can our imam e zaman use dasond money on himself [personal use like in his hotels,airlines,resorts,horses] ???


This question has already been asked and replied many times on the Forum that what the Imam does with Dassond money is his decision and if he wants he can burn it as far as Ismailis are concerned once they give to the Imam they do not ask him for account. If you have nothing interesting to do on this board except ask questions that have already been answered, please make room for people who have new questions and can contribute positively.
I don't think you have read the rules not that you have understood them. Or maybe you have your agenda.


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rizwan_78



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Bibi Fatima's Tasbih Reply with quote

arshad1988 wrote:


Now if it was known that Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fatima were very poor, how is it that Dasond is comprised of two parts: 10% given to Shah and 2.5% given to Pir. At that time the Prophet had servants, and had the ability to offer them a servant, indicating he was more well off than them at that time. However, should not it have been the other way around if 10% of 12.5% were to be given to Hazrat Ali?


If you know your history, during this time, war was taking place and so, many women had become widows and had no shelter or sustenance to provide themselves with. Therefore, Nabi Muhammad (pbuh) would help these women by sending them to work under a household. In return, they would be provided with food and shelter. So the servants that you say belonged to Nabi Muhammad (pbuh) weren't really his servants, rather they were just women that were being helped by the prophet.

In addition, the dasond was given to the prophet at that time, not Mowla Ali. It was afterwards, when Hazrat Ali was declared as the Imam, that the dasond was given to the Imam. The remaining 2.5% that we, Ismailis give, was added during the time of Pir Sadrudin.

As a fellow brother, I would recommend people read the "The Ismailis - Their history and doctrines" by Farhad Daftary. What's intriguing about this book is that it is not even written by an Ismaili, but rather by outside sources and that it's authenticity is such that it is being studied at reputable universities like Harvard.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sad Sorry State of Zakat Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:

This is indeed sad. It is no wonder that many non-Ismailis contribute to our institutions such as the AKU as a better avenue for philanthropy. MHI mentioned in one of his speeches that the financial base of the AKU is broadening and there is a greater participation from outside our community. If this trend continues then the AKU and other Imamat institutions will be non communal civil society institutions in their truest sense.


The article below indicates that AKU is becoming an increasing avenue of zakat contributions...

AKUH Patients’ Behbud Society spends Rs 145 million
Posted: 09 Mar 2009 12:04 PM PDT

7 March 2009 Business Recorder

The Patients’ Behbud Society (PBS) for the Aga Khan University Hospital (AKUH), received over Rs 76 million in its zakat funds in 2008, against Rs 43 million received in 2007, according to PBS Chairman M R Monem. In a letter sent to the donors, thanking them for their “generous support” resulting in the increase in fund collection, he said.

“Encouraged by the response we received last year, the Committee has set a target of Rs 100 million for zakat collections in 2009.” The Society has now completed its 7th year and, during this period, over Rs 145 million has been disbursed towards medical treatment of ‘mustehqeen’ (deserving people).

This was commensurate with the level of zakat funds received. Each month, the executive committee of PBS meets to review and approve applications of ‘mustehqeen’ in desperate and urgent need of medical treatment. Case history of the beneficiaries have also been attached with the letter.

The continuous increase in the number of needy patients seeking assistance annually brings to the fore the urgent need to expand this endeavour. Monem has requested the donors “to help us further by persuading your friends and relatives to include us as a beneficiary for their zakat, enabling us to reach the target of Rs 100 million for the current year.”
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magnet



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir in my jk...i have seen a trend that people keeps an eye how much a person dasond pays(in sense when a person pays a huge amount)ppl start gossipping how this guy earns and all stuffs plus personally tryin to b a detective on him .....this include some of the path committees member too.....

I wanted to know can a person directly give dasond to imam by directly forwarding to him via jk tijoris and his bandagi rather than doin so in traditional way to b safe from others eye
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

magnet wrote:
Sir in my jk...i have seen a trend that people keeps an eye how much a person dasond pays(in sense when a person pays a huge amount)ppl start gossipping how this guy earns and all stuffs plus personally tryin to b a detective on him .....this include some of the path committees member too.....

I wanted to know can a person directly give dasond to imam by directly forwarding to him via jk tijoris and his bandagi rather than doin so in traditional way to b safe from others eye
According to my understanding Dasond money is received by Mukh/Kamadia in a manner in which the amount is not visible to anyone else.
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