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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Allah and the Nur of Allah
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Allah and the Nur of Allah
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njessani



Joined: 02 Jun 2019
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please note that they were already "convinced" after having discussions with the missionaries. Seeing the Imam in-person helped them psychologically accept the things told by the missionaries.

"After a number of SATSANG MULAKATS most of the members of our group, numbering two hundred, were convinced of what the missionaries had said about the DIVINE ASPECT of MOWLANA SULTAN MOHAMED SHAH, who was the FORTY_EIGHTH JOMADHARI NOOR MOWLA MURTAZA ALI (SHRI VISHNU VAR DATAR)."

On the other link you provided related to the Haji Bibi Case:

Please note that the Judge was Justice Louis Pitman Russell. The link says that the Judge died in 3 days. See these links below - the first one shows that he was the Judge in Bombay High Court until 1912 and the second one shows he died on Feb 13, 1914. That is ~6 years after the case was decided in September 3, 1908. This certainly brings the credibility of the anecdote into question.


This link on Bombay High Court:
https://bombayhighcourt.nic.in/jshowpuisne.php?auth=amdldGlkPTQyJnBhZ2Vubz01

Search for the name "Louis Pitman Russell" and see the corresponding date.
http://eddiesextracts.com/twextracts/tw19140200.html


Coming back to the topic, so let's build on that example: Jafar Sadiq dies, all murids that had the vision of Jafar Sadiq will now instead start seeing visions of Ismail. What happens to the murids that may not have reached that stage to have the vision of Jafar Sadiq? They were dedicated to serving Jafar Sadiq but they were not elevated to seeing visions. You may agree or disagree but I believe that constitutes a substantial portion of the murid population at any given time. How will they decide which Imam to choose?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20991

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

njessani wrote:
Please note that they were already "convinced" after having discussions with the missionaries. Seeing the Imam in-person helped them psychologically accept the things told by the missionaries.
It was not only the physical presence of the Imam but the vision of the das avtars which enabled them to accept Ismailism. I don't think they were expectant of such an experience and they were certainly not sitting in meditation at the moment of vision. The vision was not only due to their Hindu background and the theological preparation but also the grace of the Imam.
njessani wrote:

On the other link you provided related to the Haji Bibi Case:

Please note that the Judge was Justice Louis Pitman Russell. The link says that the Judge died in 3 days. See these links below - the first one shows that he was the Judge in Bombay High Court until 1912 and the second one shows he died on Feb 13, 1914. That is ~6 years after the case was decided in September 3, 1908. This certainly brings the credibility of the anecdote into question.
I cannot prove or disprove you about what you have stated, but there was no other proof apart from the vision, that the Imam could come up with. So that in itself lends credibility to the story.
njessani wrote:

Coming back to the topic, so let's build on that example: Jafar Sadiq dies, all murids that had the vision of Jafar Sadiq will now instead start seeing visions of Ismail. What happens to the murids that may not have reached that stage to have the vision of Jafar Sadiq? They were dedicated to serving Jafar Sadiq but they were not elevated to seeing visions. You may agree or disagree but I believe that constitutes a substantial portion of the murid population at any given time. How will they decide which Imam to choose?
In this case the murids who did not have the capacity to experience the vision would rely on the individuals who had the capacity to inform them. Through out history there have always been Dais appointed by the Imams who could be trusted by the Jamat. And of course at any given time there would be individuals albeit a minority who would have that capacity and are recognized by the Jamat as such. Bhachhibai Tejpar was an example who would give lectures based upon her own experiences and who was trusted by the Jamat.

MSMS once remarked that Ismailism is not about numbers. He said that Ismailism will survive even if there is only one Ismaili.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 08 Jun 2019
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

njessani wrote:
kmaherali wrote:

All the experiences above are to be discarded and not to be given
too much significance as the real destiny of the soul is even higher.
[All the mystical experiences that are elluded to in these verses are
only tentative, as an indication of the extra sensory experience.
However these may not occur in all cases as the final destiny is
even higher and therefore these may confuse some aspirants about
the final experience. People have managed to get the higher and
ultimate experience without these experiences.]


I think we are back to where we started as we can't fully rely on mystical experiences. Here is one where this women merged into Light:

"The following is also a merging-with-light experience but it led to an out-of-body experience. The report was sent by an English woman of an experience thirty years in the past, when she was twenty:
I was at a concert with a friend, given by the Hallé orchestra. They were playing the Chorale Symphony (Beethoven) and as I did not know the music well, I retreated into my own thoughts— which were pretty depressing. I prayed to be taken out of the “black pit of my own mind and selfishness” and suddenly, in answer, there was a rush of LIGHT, which surrounded me, lifted me into LIGHT and at the same time seemed to melt my physical being so that LIGHT welled up also from within me, or rather, burst out of me, to meet the LIGHT that was without. With this LIGHT came BLISS, happiness a million times stronger than anything I had ever experienced on earth: and on earth I had been, at times, completely happy. At the same time, I felt a cool breeze playing on me, and within me a whirling sensation and a feeling that I was somehow above myself—my body—but not completely, only a foot or so."


What kind of light was that? Colorful, white light, or like sun light! I have read about light experiences in western literature. The lady was dejected and in deep depression. What she experienced was her state of mind. That was her sub conscious which made her felt in extreme lights. Was that light visible to others surrounding her, of course not other wise it should have been head lines of news papers. The lady did not claimed she was merged with light but felt a foot or so uplifted.
Worldly light can not be compared with Noor. No one can see Noor in his/her worldly life.
I came across a Christian white male age 60+, who told me he saw light. I asked him how come. He narrated; I was involved in car accident and died, and realized a type of white light surrounding me, and a voice came out of that light saying go back and help your elderly mother. I conclude that after accident the man was unconscious and story came out from his subconscious.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20991

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Who is this?” A poem about Imam Zayn al-Abidin

Posted by Nimira Dewji
Imam Ali b. al-Husayn, the third Imam of the Ismailis and the fourth in the line of the Twelver community, was born around 658. He was present at the massacre of his family at Karbala in 680 and survived the event because he was ill at the time and confined to his tent. Upon returning to Medina, he refrained from political activity. Over time, due to his renowned piety, he acquired the honorific title Zayn al-Abidin meaning ‘the ornament of the pious’ as well as al-Sajjad due to his devotion to praying. He came to be held in great esteem by the pious people of Medina.

Along with some devotional poetry, Imam compiled a collection of prayers for various occasions known as al-Sahifa al-sajjadiyya, considered the oldest manual of supplications in Islamic sources, and one of the influential works of Islamic spirituality, given its widespread use as a devotional guide up to the present day.

Imam Zayn al-Abidin died in Medina in 714 and was buried in the Baqi cemetery next to his uncle al-Hasan b. Ali.


Al-sahifa al-sajjadiyya, Iran, dated 1678. Source: Wikipedia
Hisham b, Abd al-Malik (d. 743), the Umayyad heir and future caliph (r. 724-743), was circling the Kaba during a Hajj. He had tried in vain to reach the Kaba to touch the holy relic. Despite his aristocratic status, the crowds of pilgrims ignored him. He moved aside until the crowd dispersed. However, his entourage noticed that the crowd parted respectfully for the Prophet’s grandson Ali Zayn al-Abidin, who easily approached the stone and kissed it. Offended by the greater respect given by the pilgrims to the newly arrived personage, the Umayyad prince asked, ‘Who is this?’ At the time, al-Farazdaq (d. ca 730), one of the most renowned Arab poets, who was also performing the Hajj, stepped before the prince and composed a poem which has since been considered a masterpiece of Arabic literature (The Ismailis An Illustrated History p 54).

Who is this?

This is he whose very footsteps are known to the valley of Mecca!
The surrounding land, the sanctuary and the sacred House itself
know him well

This is the child of the best of all God’s servants
Peerless, pious, pure and pristine

Are you ignorant of who he is? He is the son of Fatima
God’s prophets were sealed with his grandfather

His liberal hands, ever-generous like the bounteous rain clouds
Shower abundantly, untouched by want

He lowers his gaze in modesty, while others do so in awe of him
A smile always accompanies his speech

After the mention of God himself, the are mentioned
At the beginning and end of all orations

Love for them wards off misfortune and calamity
And brings the copious flow of favours and bounties [SV]

Read entire poem at Shafique N.Virani.org.

www.shafiquevirani.org/pdfs/Virani-WhoisThis.pdf

nimirasblog.wordpress.com/2019/06/12/who-is-this-a-poem-about-imam-zayn-al-abidin/
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20991

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Concept of Light in Ismaili Philosophy'

Arzina Lalani

Light as an archetype, is used in most traditions and faiths as it is in Islam, where the most prevailing representations are in relation to Muḥammad’s prophetic appearance. Within classical Shiʿi texts, this is linked to the light of leadership –nur al-imama. The paper draws on the teachings of early imams on intellect, light, love and ru’yat Allah in select Shiʿi texts including the Ikhwan al-Safa’ and Fatimid scholars. The experience of hearts perceiving the vision of light is unique to each individual, being a journey that needs a guide. Ibn Sina concedes to this in his later life, referring to it as the hikmat al-mashriqiyya which becomes fully developed under Suhrawardi, the founder of al-Ishrāq –the school of illumination. In this school, the guide is the angel of humanity, known to the philosophers as the active intelligence and recognised by al-Naysaburi as the universal intellect.

The article can be accessed at:

https://www.academia.edu/11720153/Concept_of_Light_in_Ismaili_Philosophy?auto_download=true&email_work_card=view-paper
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charlie



Joined: 14 Nov 2019
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God said,"light upon light". How can we explain light upon light? Is it a kind of layer of light on other layer of light? Is it explained as stages of light? Or one light will depart and other will take its place? Is this light colorful? Can we look at this light without harming eyes? Is this light has fragrance or it is without fragrance. Is this light visible with naked eyes. Where is this light?
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swamidada



Joined: 19 Aug 2019
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALLAHUMA YA NOORU TANNAWARTA BI NOORI WA NOORU FI NOORI NOORUKA YA NOOR.

O Lord, you are radiant by Noor (light) and Noor by your Noor, O (ever living) Noor.

(Allah's Noor radiates (emits) all over Universe without pause)
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 20991

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mazhar-e-Khuda: The Light of God

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=il7UFJqskrg&feature=emb_logo
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