How former christian can be an ismaili

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:01 am

Ya Ali madaad .I am former christian from Moscow Russia/ 2 years ago I proclaimed shahada. But I reverted to Islam through reading of shia and ismaili literature. Unfortunately,I didn't find in Moscow jomakhane. I have a lot of questons on rites and tradition. First of them-how i can enter the ismaili community. Valery

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:38 am

Mowla Aly Madad Valerie,
You have already entered the Ismaili community on the internet.
As far as conversion and taking Baiyat of Hazar Imam goes you will have to contact the local Tariqa Board Chairperson and ask for an application in writing explaining why you want to be an Ismaili.
This in my opinion is a decent way to start the process.
You could check local telephone directories for Imammat Institutions like Aga Khan Foundation. I am sure there are some active institutions in your Country. They could guide you to that Chairperson

Wish you all the best in your spiritual search.
Make sure that in your heart you keep asking Hazar Imam for help and guidance in the process.

You see I work with various types of people and some of them are adopted out at birth and when they are in their teens they suddenly have a longing to find their biological parents.

People born in non ismaili families , when they are looking for their spiritual Father and Mother in the Imam of the Time remind me of these children who were raised by adoptive parents.

Ya Aly Madad
Shams

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:54 am

OK! I shall tyr to by such a way. But as far as I know there is no organized community in Moscow. There are some pamiri, but they pray mostly individually. What are specific features of ismaili pray. I pray now as sunni-Qibla towards Mecca  2-rakaat morning? and then 4-4--3-4. What special du'a shall I read in compare with sunni tradition? Valery (male)

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:29 am

Where can I find this book of farmans in English.Does it mean that i don't need daily . prayer. And if there is no jomakhane i couldn't pray with Sunni or 12-imams shia as well as I do not need Fryday joma in Mosque

Post by **Admin** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:28 pm

Hello Valery,

If you know some Ismailis Badakshani in your city, pray with them. Prayer is a necesssary part of life, whatever your religion. It is not important which direction you pray because God is everywhere.

Whenever you have one second, think of God an this is also considered as prayer. In due time, you may find the way to enter the Ismaili faith but God looks first of all on the purity of your intention so do not be impatient.

Good Luck in your spiritual search.

Regards,

Admin

roxy · Post by **roxy** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:37 pm

Valery wrote:Where can I find this book of farmans in English.Does it mean that i don't need daily . prayer. And if there is no jomakhane i couldn't pray with Sunni or 12-imams shia as well as I do not need Fryday joma in Mosque

First of all how have you converted into ismailism ? If you have converted into ismailism the proper way then there are authorities who have been responsible for the convertion who may be able to guide you properly including the farman books available, if any, and the ismaili daily prayers.

I would also like to know from you:

When you mention praying - do you know the ismaili prayers - from where did you get the dua book?

Also, are the ismaili prayers allowed in sunni or shia masjids ?

Asya · Post by **Asya** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:23 pm

FOR YOUR HOLY DU'A -  [Sorry - edited part  of this message- we do not allow link to anti-ismaili sites though the link you gave was very relevant - There is a Du'a version on ismaili.net in audio section - ADMIN] Ain't that enough to give you faith! The Mukhis should be laughing out loud if they knew that idiot Meherally is giving Ismaili dawa around the world through his internet site! Valerie, if you are for real, please keep your faith quiet and practice "taqiyya" (hiding). I have Russian friends and I know how they hate the Chechyans and Muslims in general. BLESSED BE!

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:59 pm

Asya ,the site which you have mention is anti ismaili website ,with many falsehood and rumour.It is of Akbar Mehrally who was enemy of our religion and made mosque for ismailis in karachi in order to convert ismailis into nonismailis.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:59 am

Valery

here is the best site for the dua

http://sun.ismaili.net/~heritage/re/priere.html

wish you Ya Aly Madad

shams

roxy · Post by **roxy** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:02 am

Admin,

One of my postings whereby I have mentioned to convert, the ismaili constitution be referred to and farman book kalame imame mubin be referred to for the purpose of prayers (where there are no jamatkhanas, etc.) seem to have deleted and as far as I understand I have not deleted the posting. Please look into this matter.

Asya and star_munir
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Those who does not believe in Lord/Rabb, a human being, is Allah are outside the faith for the simple reason that human beings are termed as Rabb/Lord in the Quran and Quran reveals Rabb/Lord is Allah and this Allah is everywhere.

Asya - You mention Allah works in mysterious ways ..... and the Takiya pratise - any farmans from mawlana hazar hazar in this regard? If not then you are saying things on your own (allah/lord has not said what you mention).

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:05 am

Ya Ali Madad .To all,who entered my topic. .I really exist Valery(male,in Russia this is also male name). I am historian and lawyer,and now I am involved in journalism. We established now independent muslim newspaper and also information agency. I am 40 y.o. Now I entered ismaili more individually and virtually. But I have found first traces of ismaili community and if success I'll witness my faith before community. .Now I pray as shia -12 with salawat and mention in shahada amir-al-mummineen. I pray three times a day- morning, evening, and night.Is that proper  way under my living-conditions? .About Russians and Muslims. First of all in our country often Muslims hate Muslims. That is the question. .Who wants to wright me directly -wim1963@mail.ru .Valery  I

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:06 am

Ya Ali Madad .To all,who entered my topic. .I really exist Valery(male,in Russia this is also male name). I am historian and lawyer,and now I am involved in journalism. We established now independent muslim newspaper and also information agency. I am 40 y.o. Now I entered ismaili more individually and virtually. But I have found first traces of ismaili community and if success I'll witness my faith before community. .Now I pray as shia -12 with salawat and mention in shahada amir-al-mummineen. I pray three times a day- morning, evening, and night.Is that proper  way under my living-conditions? .About Russians and Muslims. First of all in our country often Muslims hate Muslims. That is the question. .Who wants to wright me directly -wim1963@mail.ru .Valery  I

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:06 am

Ya Ali Madad .To all,who entered my topic. .I really exist Valery(male,in Russia this is also male name). I am historian and lawyer,and now I am involved in journalism. We established now independent muslim newspaper and also information agency. I am 40 y.o. Now I entered ismaili more individually and virtually. But I have found first traces of ismaili community and if success I'll witness my faith before community. .Now I pray as shia -12 with salawat and mention in shahada amir-al-mummineen. I pray three times a day- morning, evening, and night.Is that proper  way under my living-conditions? .About Russians and Muslims. First of all in our country often Muslims hate Muslims. That is the question. .Who wants to wright me directly -wim1963@mail.ru .Valery  I

roxy · Post by **roxy** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:39 am

Valery wrote:Ya Ali Madad .To all,who entered my topic. .I really exist Valery(male,in Russia this is also male name). I am historian and lawyer,and now I am involved in journalism. We established now independent muslim newspaper and also information agency. I am 40 y.o. Now I entered ismaili more individually and virtually. But I have found first traces of ismaili community and if success I'll witness my faith before community. .Now I pray as shia -12 with salawat and mention in shahada amir-al-mummineen. I pray three times a day- morning, evening, and night.Is that proper  way under my living-conditions? .About Russians and Muslims. First of all in our country often Muslims hate Muslims. That is the question. .Who wants to wright me directly -wim1963@mail.ru .Valery  I

You mention:
Now I pray as shia -12.
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You are free to practise that faith. Also this faith does not have any kind of connection with the ismaili faith in the sense the faiths are different.

Also ismailis do not say their daily prayers in any masjids but jamatkhana. If they saying prayers in any masjid this may be because they are not aware of the farmans of mawlana hazar imam. If there are no jamatkhanas then they can pray in their houses. For the exact message Kalame Imame Mubin farman book may be referred to by Ismailis - If english translation is required and not made available ismailis can write letters to the Lord (refer Ismaili constitution). If there are any threats in practising of the faith and to safeguard themself of physical harm to themselves and their family members and they have to show others that they are pratising the others faith then physically they may be doing this but internally they actually pratise the ismaili faith. However, if there is no such threat and they are aware of the farmans and still they say their daily prayers in masjids, etc. then they are not ismailis because ismailism does not mean pratising other faiths or going against the farmans of mawlana hazar imam.

You also mention:
First of all in our country often Muslims hate Muslims. That is the question
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In Ismaili faith, if one does not not believe in ismaili faith then that person is free to leave the ismaili faith and go to other faith and in such a case the Imam/Lord says khuda hafiz. So you see there is no hatred in ismailism in such a case.

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:57 am

For Roxy .Sorry, but direct definition human being= Rabb\lord=Allah.It is Chrisitanity not Islam. Problem is more complicated.What is authentetic ismaili view towards God-human being relations? . Do Ismaili perform Hajj? Do they ruqu and sujud doring prayer? .And What about salman.com Isit an ismaili resorce?

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:57 am

For Roxy .Sorry, but direct definition human being= Rabb\lord=Allah.It is Chrisitanity not Islam. Problem is more complicated.What is authentetic ismaili view towards God-human being relations? . Do Ismaili perform Hajj? Do they ruqu and sujud doring prayer? .And What about salman.com Isit an ismaili resorce?

roxy · Post by **roxy** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:19 am

Valery wrote:For Roxy .Sorry, but direct definition human being= Rabb\lord=Allah.It is Chrisitanity not Islam. Problem is more complicated.What is authentetic ismaili view towards God-human being relations? . Do Ismaili perform Hajj? Do they ruqu and sujud doring prayer? .And What about salman.com Isit an ismaili resorce?

Presently I am not talking Bible reveals Rabb/Lord is Allah but Quran reveals Rabb/Lord is Allah and I am mentioning this Allah is everywhere.
So how come you mention it is Chrisitanity not Islam ? If according to you Allah as per the Quran be followed then as per the Quran Rabb/Lord is Allah and human beings are termed as Rabb/Lord in the Quran and this Lord is everywhere. So you see Allah is not just a ordinary human being like you and me. To proceed further, please confirm your understanding about Lord/Rabb is Allah.

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:04 am

Ya ali madad .Yes, allah ta-ala presents evrywhere, but it does not mean that Creator is the same as Creation. That is as I know fundamental Quranic principle. Otherwise, one can begin devote to human being in same manner as to God.And that is my question- shall I consider Hazar Imam as God itself, or as god specially -blessed true human being

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:05 am

Ya ali madad .Yes, allah ta-ala presents evrywhere, but it does not mean that Creator is the same as Creation. That is as I know fundamental Quranic principle. Otherwise, one can begin devote to human being in same manner as to God.And that is my question- shall I consider Hazar Imam as God itself, or as god specially -blessed true human being

roxy · Post by **roxy** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:34 am

Valery wrote:Ya ali madad .Yes, allah ta-ala presents evrywhere, but it does not mean that Creator is the same as Creation. That is as I know fundamental Quranic principle. Otherwise, one can begin devote to human being in same manner as to God.And that is my question- shall I consider Hazar Imam as God itself, or as god specially -blessed true human being

When Quran reveals Rabb/Lord is Allah then this does not mean that the creator is a creation like you and me but it means Rabb/Lord is Allah. Please confirm your understanding that when Quran reveals Rabb/Lord is Allah, it actually means Rabb/Lord is Allah - it does not mean creator is the same as Creation like you and me.

roxy · Post by **roxy** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:36 am

Valery wrote:Ya ali madad .Yes, allah ta-ala presents evrywhere, but it does not mean that Creator is the same as Creation. That is as I know fundamental Quranic principle. Otherwise, one can begin devote to human being in same manner as to God.And that is my question- shall I consider Hazar Imam as God itself, or as god specially -blessed true human being

When Quran reveals Rabb/Lord, a human being, is Allah then this does not mean that the creator is a creation like you and me but it means Rabb/Lord is Allah. In other words, there is no hocus-pocus and there is no nonsence - Quran reveals it is clear and easy to understand. Please confirm your understanding that when Quran reveals Rabb/Lord is Allah, it actually means Rabb/Lord is Allah - it does not mean creator is the same as Creation like you and me.

Even the hadiths seem to reveal that Allah's interpretation is final -
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith - Hadith 6.580 - Narrated byAbdullah
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Prophet said, "Recite (and study) the Qur'an as long as you agree about its interpretation, but if you have any difference of opinion (as regards to its interpretation and meaning) then you should stop reciting it (for the time being)."

So you have to agree with Allah's interpretation as final. Please confirm your understanding to proceed further. If you think your interpretation is above Allah's interpretation then please note this is not so.

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:23 pm

Dear Valery,

I can answer many of your questions. Plz email me at kandani@hotmail.com

Roxy's interpretations will only confuse you as he has confused and driven many out of this forum. Do not buy into this Lord = Allah = human argument, because that is NOT what Ismailies believe.

The Imam is the Divinely Appointed Spiritual Guide of mankind. He is God's Viceregent (khalifa) on earth, and the Leader (Imam) of the believers.

Plz email me any questions you have, and i will be happy to help you in any way i can.

roxy · Post by **roxy** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 10:16 pm

kandani wrote:Dear Valery,

I can answer many of your questions. Plz email me at kandani@hotmail.com

Roxy's interpretations will only confuse you as he has confused and driven many out of this forum. Do not buy into this Lord = Allah = human argument, because that is NOT what Ismailies believe.

The Imam is the Divinely Appointed Spiritual Guide of mankind. He is God's Viceregent (khalifa) on earth, and the Leader (Imam) of the believers.

Plz email me any questions you have, and i will be happy to help you in any way i can.

Kandani,

Please note, the Quran was being discussed and I have quoted from the Quran and so where is the question of my interpretation? It is Allah's interpretation.

Do you mean to say when Quran reveals Lord is Allah then this is Roxy's argument - how come? On what basis do you think Quran is the message of mine and not Allah's?

For your information, even in the Dua it is clear one should seek help and advice in all matters from Allah only and Ismaili seeks help and advice in all matters from Mawlana Hazar Imam. The Light of the heavens and the earth is His. - Relevant farmans, quran verses, etc. are quoted in other ismaili.net forums.

Please do not tell lies about me and insult me for no reasons Kandani. This is not proper. In fact, this reveals that your character is very bad. You want to advertise your character ? If yes, please advertise your character in other forum because this forum is not for individuals to advertise their bad characters.

It is an admitted position that you are not taking into account dua, tasbih, farmans, etc. and hence you are outside the ismaili faith. You can also refer to the Memoirs of the Aga Khan. It is that simple. If you want to discuss about Ismailism, be inside the faith and not outside. In other words, please do not go against the dua, tasbih, farmans, etc. and rumor monger and still say you are an ismaili because ismailism does not mean going against the dua, tasbih, farman, history, etc.

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:18 am

To Kandani .I have sent my message to you last week but there was no reply. My mail-address wim1963@mail.ru. .I was also informed that Qibla is not obligatory for Ismaili. But it is defined directly in  Quran (2:144).What answer will be proper one?

altaf_rupani · Post by **altaf_rupani** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:18 pm

the id altaf_rupani banned from posting

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:04 am

Ya ali madad!

I guess that attitude towards Qibla is fifty-fifty because of contents of ayaths 142-144 al-Bakkara. May be everybody solve this problem for oneself individually.
Today I have heard today from one educated sunni-person that for ismaili is not obligatory namaz in traditiional frame? Is it true? And what about haram for ismaili

altaf_rupani · Post by **altaf_rupani** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:17 am

the id altaf_rupani banned from posting

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:38 am

I believe in Allah and obey him and consider hazar Imam as heavenly appointed ruler on earth. Concerning Qibla-it is ritual but not faith itself. And if i pray among sunni (under specific circumctances) I must pray toward Qibla. And one more thing:read again Quran 2:142 and 2:144. How toharmonize content of it.

Valery · Post by **Valery** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:39 am

I believe in Allah and obey Him and consider hazar Imam as heavenly appointed ruler on earth. Concerning Qibla-it is ritual but not faith itself. And if i pray among sunni (under specific circumctances) I must pray toward Qibla. And one more thing:read again Quran 2:142 and 2:144. How toharmonize content of it.

altaf_rupani · Post by **altaf_rupani** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:24 am

the id altaf_rupani banned from posting

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