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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Status of Imam Aga Khan
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Status of Imam Aga Khan

 
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Dovduv



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:42 am    Post subject: Status of Imam Aga Khan Reply with quote

I have read so many claims that Ismailis pray to the Aga Khan instead of to God, and believe that the Aga Khan (or any previous imam) has some kind of supernatural powers. Is this true, and what is the proof of this claim if it is true?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 23222

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ismailis believe that the Imam is the Bearer of the Noor of Allah. There has been intensive and extensive discussion in this forum regarding many aspects of this notion.

Please go to the thread:


Allah and the Nur of Allah

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=101
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Dovduv



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry. I found the exchanges on the other thread confusing. How is it possible to conceive of a flesh and blood man such as the Aga Khan to be infallible (this question would be asked about the pope too), and that people would actually pray to the Aga Khan, etc. and that seeing him is like the Hajj to Mecca.
I am not a Muslim but I am familiar enough with Islam to understand the basic concepts. So it would help if you could describe the issue succinctly in ordinary English. Thank you.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 23222

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to general mystical phillosophies which include mystical/esoteric dimensions of all faiths, the purpose of a human being is to become one with God through spiritual discipline under the guidance of a person who is himself a God realized person. In Sufism these persons are called Perfect Man - Al Insaan ak Kameel. Examples would include Rumi, Hafiz, Mansoor etc.

In Ismailism the Imam is considered as a Perfect Man and who manifests the powers of God being the bearer of the Noor. He intercedes on the behalf of his murids. Hence prayers directed towards him are considered to be more "efficient" in terms of achieving results. God is worshipped through the Imam. God's guidance comes through the Imam.
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Dovduv



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does that mean that the imam is MORE than flesh and blood, and that the Aga Khan is infallible and without sin, and knows everything, and may be prayed to? And is equivalent to all the prophets and to Muhammad?
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Dovduv



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I understand this correctly, the Ismaili system is totally different than that of Sunni Islam and even Twelver Shi'a Islam. And if you mean there were previous imams equivalent to Muhammad, Jesus, and Moses, then what is the novelty of Muhammad as a prophet, because someone before Muhammad was also in his status. And if so, who was the prophet/imam just before Muhammad? And who will hold this lofty status AFTER the Aga Khan dies, and how will he acquire that status??
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 23222

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dovduv wrote:
So does that mean that the imam is MORE than flesh and blood, and that the Aga Khan is infallible and without sin, and knows everything, and may be prayed to? And is equivalent to all the prophets and to Muhammad?
Yes of course, you need to understand and study mysticism/Sufism. In Sufism which is the esoteric dimension of Islam, In saan al-Kameel has the qualities and capabilities of God. Everything that God is capable of doing he is also capable.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 23222

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dovduv wrote:
If I understand this correctly, the Ismaili system is totally different than that of Sunni Islam and even Twelver Shi'a Islam. And if you mean there were previous imams equivalent to Muhammad, Jesus, and Moses, then what is the novelty of Muhammad as a prophet, because someone before Muhammad was also in his status. And if so, who was the prophet/imam just before Muhammad? And who will hold this lofty status AFTER the Aga Khan dies, and how will he acquire that status??
Please read the chapter that I suggested to you before you ask such questions. Please please read the chapter and then pose your questions. You have obviously not read it. It explains everything that you have raised.
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Dovduv



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is it possible that the Ismaili Imams/Aga Khans can be infallible, sinless, etc. simply by becoming the Imam at a certain stage of life. For example, whoever will succeed the current Aga Khan - how is it known about his spiritual status, AND how is it possible that anything taught by the Imam today can never be questioned or challenged by any Ismaili or other person?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 6253

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dovduv wrote:
How is it possible that the Ismaili Imams/Aga Khans can be infallible, sinless, etc. simply by becoming the Imam at a certain stage of life. For example, whoever will succeed the current Aga Khan - how is it known about his spiritual status, AND how is it possible that anything taught by the Imam today can never be questioned or challenged by any Ismaili or other person?


I think that you do not understand that we do not call the body of Aga Khan as Imam, we call Imam the Noor which is in him. It is the Noor which is divine, not the body. The body is born and dies, like all material thing, it is imperfect. it can never be called God. This would be absurd. Christian believe that the body of Jesus was divine, Ismailis do not have any such beliefs.

Ismailis only believe in the Noor. Noorun Mubeen and Imam-e-Mubeen.

Please to understand the notion of Noor, read the Quran.
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Dovduv



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the distinction, however, the fact remains that the Imam known as Aga Khan is considered to be highly unique, infallible, sinless, and has perfect knowledge of God and religion. It is prohibited to challenge or question anything he or previous imams have taught about Islam etc.
It is hard to accept such a way of thinking. Especially if there are serious questions about the origins of Islam and Quran to begin with as differing from the standard narrative of the Muslim community.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 6253

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the beauty of Ismailism, anyone that does not feel comfortable with the tenets of Ismailism can leave in peace, none oblige him to remain Ismaili. Find your path and pray whoever your God to show you the true path.

Thank you for sharing your ideas. Now is the time for you to pause and start reading as all your questions have been asked in the past by other people and have been replied.

Come back in few years when you have other questions that have not been discussed and replied on this forum under other topics.

Admin
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Dovduv



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin, with all due respect I feel that your reply is rather patronizing. I realize that most people do not like to have their fundamental beliefs questioned or challenged. But a serious discussion is still worthwhile, without being patronizing.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 6253

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if I have hurt your feelings. You will agree that it is most frustrating when someone ask questions that have already been replied and when he does not want to read what was posted before he joined this Forum. You will agree also that the proper way is to browse the Forum first and refrain to double ask the same questions again and again. Your questions about the origin of Quran, about the status of Imam including the current Imam etc.. all this has been replied in the appropriate thread. By reading what has been posted, you can build on it.
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