Ginans of non-Muslim beliefs

Discussion on ginan meanings, history etc..
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Dovduv
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:50 pm

Ginans of non-Muslim beliefs

Post by Dovduv »

I do not understand how the acceptance of ginans that compare Muhammad to Krishna, etc. can be accepted by Ismailis because such ideas go against the fundamentals of Islam. A
kmaherali
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Post by kmaherali »

The 48th Imam has stated in his Memoirs:

First, however, we must ask ourselves why this final and consummate appearance of the Divine Will was granted to mankind, and what were its causes. All Islamic schools of thought accept it as a fundamental principle that for centuries, for thousands of years before the advent of Mohammed, there arose from time to time messengers, illumined by Divine Grace, for and among those races of the earth which had sufficiently advanced intellectually to comprehend such a message. Thus Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the Prophets of Israel are universally accepted by Islam. Muslims indeed know no limitation merely to the Prophets of Israel; they are ready to admit that there were similar Divinely inspired messengers in other countriesGautama Buddha, Shri Krishna and Shri Ram in India, Socrates in Greece, the wise man of China and many other sages and saints among peoples and civilizations, trace of which we have lost. Thus man's soul has never been left without a specially inspired messenger from the soul that sustains, embraces and is the universe.

I strongly recommend you to read the entire chapter to get a better understanding of what Islam is. It can be accessed at:

http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0016b.html
Dovduv
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:50 pm

Post by Dovduv »

I am familiar with the theories you have mentioned. But what does it have to do with the Islam of the Quran? Everyone knows that Krishna was said by Hindus to be an incarnation of a god. This violates the principles of Islam, so how could there be ginans that accept this idea from India, and how could one conceive of the Aga Khan being such a person and praying to him?
kmaherali
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Post by kmaherali »

It seems you have not read the quote of the 48th Imam. It has everything to do with the Quran. It depends on how you interpret it. According to Ismaili interpretation as per the quote:

All Islamic schools of thought accept it as a fundamental principle that for centuries, for thousands of years before the advent of Mohammed, there arose from time to time messengers, illumined by Divine Grace, for and among those races of the earth which had sufficiently advanced intellectually to comprehend such a message. Thus Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the Prophets of Israel are universally accepted by Islam. Muslims indeed know no limitation merely to the Prophets of Israel; they are ready to admit that there were similar Divinely inspired messengers in other countriesGautama Buddha, Shri Krishna and Shri Ram in India, Socrates in Greece, the wise man of China and many other sages and saints among peoples and civilizations, trace of which we have lost. Thus man's soul has never been left without a specially inspired messenger from the soul that sustains, embraces and is the universe.


In essence Islam has been there since creation. It did not begin at the time of the Prophet.

Ismailis consider Lord Krishna as one of the Imams before Hazarat Ali. There is always an Imam without whom the world would not exist.
Dovduv
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:50 pm

Post by Dovduv »

How is it possible to syncretize religion this way, when Islam is based on the revelation of the Quran to Muhammad, and on the Abrahamic tradition of prophets, and Krishna etc. are based on non-Abrahamic and even polygamous teachings having nothing to do with revelation and commandments of the Abrahamic, and biblical tradition. And how could Islam approve of praying to the Aga Khan and expecting that this one flesh and blood man is omniscient? There must be something I have missed here, but that's how it looks to me.
kmaherali
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Post by kmaherali »

Islam is very broad, it has diverse interpretations and no one can claim that their particular interpretation is authoritative and the only one. In esoteric traditions the notion of a God-like human being are very well established. There is no mystery or ambiguity about that.
Dovduv
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:50 pm

Post by Dovduv »

Unfortunately there aren't many individuals interested in discussing my questions, which is very surprising. The one person who replies only makes bland statements and directs me to an article. For some reason he cannot discuss the issue substantively himself. Very very disappointing....
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