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Kalame Mowla
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are these 14 advice of Mowla Ali mentioned in the book Kalam e Mowla published by ITREB?
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18517

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Are these 14 advice of Mowla Ali mentioned in the book Kalam e Mowla published by ITREB?
Not all sayings of Mowla Ali are contained in the publication you have alluded to.

Some more...

Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)!

How near is the living to the dead who will meet him soon;

How far is the dead from the living who has gone away from him;

Certainly nothing is viler than evil except its punishment;

Nothing is better than good except its reward;

In this world everything that is heard is better than what is seen;

While everything of the next world that is seen is better than what is heard!

Have a nice day...
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Are these 14 advice of Mowla Ali mentioned in the book Kalam e Mowla published by ITREB?
Not all sayings of Mowla Ali are contained in the publication you have alluded to.

Some more...

Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)!

How near is the living to the dead who will meet him soon;

How far is the dead from the living who has gone away from him;

Certainly nothing is viler than evil except its punishment;

Nothing is better than good except its reward;

In this world everything that is heard is better than what is seen;

While everything of the next world that is seen is better than what is heard!

Have a nice day...



Your these and previous quotations are from Nahjul Balagah.
You quoted Mowla Ali said;

"Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)"

Mowal Ali said," GLORY TO ALLAH (SWT)", then how come Satpunthi Ismailis say 'Imam is God'? Where as Ali is praising Allah!!
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18517

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Your these and previous quotations are from Nahjul Balagah.
You quoted Mowla Ali said;

"Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)"

Mowal Ali said," GLORY TO ALLAH (SWT)", then how come Satpunthi Ismailis say 'Imam is God'? Where as Ali is praising Allah!!
Hazarat Ali was a Caliph and as such his audience was the general Muslim Umma. Hence he cannot project an esoteric concept in front of an exoteric audience. The Imam always speaks according to the level of the audience.

Remember also that Hazarat Ali was the 4th choice. Hence the general Muslim population did not have the understanding of the esoteric nature of Imamat.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Your these and previous quotations are from Nahjul Balagah.
You quoted Mowla Ali said;

"Imam Ali (a.s) said...

Glory to Allah (swt)"

Mowal Ali said," GLORY TO ALLAH (SWT)", then how come Satpunthi Ismailis say 'Imam is God'? Where as Ali is praising Allah!!
Hazarat Ali was a Caliph and as such his audience was the general Muslim Umma. Hence he cannot project an esoteric concept in front of an exoteric audience. The Imam always speaks according to the level of the audience.

Remember also that Hazarat Ali was the 4th choice. Hence the general Muslim population did not have the understanding of the esoteric nature of Imamat.



Let us assume your assertion," The Imam always speaks according to level of the audience". The Satpunthi jamaits are considered esoteric jamaits believing in esoteric concepts, but still addressing the jamaits of subcontinent Imam keep saying INSH'ALLAH/HAMDULILLAH/BLESSING OF ALLAH AND IN A FARMAN OF CHAAN RAAT MSMS SAID,' KHUDA TAMARA GUNNAH BUKHSH KAREY'. An important question is," Why Imam has to hide his position?" Huqq is Huqq, Satiya is Satya. Huqq is with Ali and Ali is with Huqq, what Ali declared is Huqq that is GLORY TO ALLAH.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18517

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Let us assume your assertion," The Imam always speaks according to level of the audience". The Satpunthi jamaits are considered esoteric jamaits believing in esoteric concepts, but still addressing the jamaits of subcontinent Imam keep saying INSH'ALLAH/HAMDULILLAH/BLESSING OF ALLAH AND IN A FARMAN OF CHAAN RAAT MSMS SAID,' KHUDA TAMARA GUNNAH BUKHSH KAREY'. An important question is," Why Imam has to hide his position?" Huqq is Huqq, Satiya is Satya. Huqq is with Ali and Ali is with Huqq, what Ali declared is Huqq that is GLORY TO ALLAH.
It is not a matter of hiding. It is a matter of not creating confusion in society. What happened to Mansur when he told the truth about his status? You don't talk of Calculas when students don't know to add, subtract and mulitply.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5716

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a thread on Ali Allah, please do not discuss this subject here. This is specifically for Kalame Mowla.

Naj ul Bhalaga is on http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1283&highlight=naj+ul+bhalaga

Ali Allah discussion is at: http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=7379&start=60
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

Let us assume your assertion," The Imam always speaks according to level of the audience". The Satpunthi jamaits are considered esoteric jamaits believing in esoteric concepts, but still addressing the jamaits of subcontinent Imam keep saying INSH'ALLAH/HAMDULILLAH/BLESSING OF ALLAH AND IN A FARMAN OF CHAAN RAAT MSMS SAID,' KHUDA TAMARA GUNNAH BUKHSH KAREY'. An important question is," Why Imam has to hide his position?" Huqq is Huqq, Satiya is Satya. Huqq is with Ali and Ali is with Huqq, what Ali declared is Huqq that is GLORY TO ALLAH.
It is not a matter of hiding. It is a matter of not creating confusion in society. What happened to Mansur when he told the truth about his status? You don't talk of Calculas when students don't know to add, subtract and mulitply.



Imam is here to guide clearly and not to create any confusion, otherwise followers will be double minded or more confused. Message should be clear and understandable. Is there any comparison between Imam of the time and Mansoor Hallaj? Was Mansoor more brave than Imam that he declared openly 'I am Huqq'?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5716

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion on Mansur al Hallaj should continue on

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=8344&start=90
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18517

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Imam is here to guide clearly and not to create any confusion, otherwise followers will be double minded or more confused. Message should be clear and understandable. Is there any comparison between Imam of the time and Mansoor Hallaj? Was Mansoor more brave than Imam that he declared openly 'I am Huqq'?
In an esoteric tradition there are always layers of understanding. It is never one understanding for everyone. Each murid has his own relationship with the Imam. That is why we have majalis to cater for the needs of different murids.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5716

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick to Kalame Mowla here.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 18517

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JollyGul.com Presents: Kalame Mawla with Synchronized Lyrics & Translations

https://www.jollygul.com/kalame-mawla/
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