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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Heaven and Hell
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Heaven and Hell
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
There is a prophetic hadith which states:

"Hell is veiled in delights, and heaven in Hardships and miseries."

The following anecdote which was construed as a joke reflects the above wisdom.

Bill Gates Meets His Programmer

Bill Gates suddenly dies and finds himself face to face with God. God stands over him and says, "Well Bill, I'm really confused on this one. It's a tough decision. I'm not sure whether to send you to Heaven or Hell. After all, you helped society enormously by putting a computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created that ghastly Windows '95 among other indiscretions. I believe I'll do something I've never done before; I'll let you decide where you want to go."

Bill pushed up his glasses, looked up at God and replied, "Could you briefly explain the difference between the two?" Looking slightly puzzled, God said, "Better yet, why don't I let you visit both places briefly, then you can make your decision. Which do you choose to see first, Heaven or Hell?"

Bill played with his pocket protector for a moment, then looked back at God and said, "I think I'll try Hell first." So, with a flash of lightning and a cloud of smoke, Bill Gates went to Hell.

When he materialized in Hell, Bill looked around. It was beautiful and clean, a bit warm, with sandy beaches and tall mountains, clear skies, pristine water, and beautiful women frolicking about. A smile came across Bill's face as he took in a deep breath of the clean air. "This is great," he thought, "if this is Hell, I can't wait to see heaven."

Within seconds of his thought, another flash of lightning and a cloud of smoke appeared, and Bill was off to Heaven. Heaven was a place high above the clouds, where angels were drifting about playing their harps and singing in a beautiful chorus. It was a very nice place, Bill thought, but not as enticing as Hell.Bill looked up, yelled for God, told him his decision and was sent to Hell for eternity.

Time passed, and God decided to check on the late billionaire to see how he was progressing in Hell. When he got there, he found Bill Gates shackled to a wall in a dark cave amid bone thin men and tongues of fire, being burned and tortured by demons.

"So, how is everything going?" God asked.

Bill responded with a cracking voice filled with anguish and disappointment, "This is awful! It's nothing like the Hell I visited the first time!! I can't believe this is happening! What happened to the other place...with the beaches and the mountains and the beautiful women?"

"That was the demo," replied God.

***
There have been numerous other discussions on this subject in this forum under numerous threads. To access them click the 'Search' link mentioned at the top of this page just below the red label 'Welocme to The Heritage Web Site'. Then type the words 'hell' and 'heaven' and search for both terms.







kmaherali wrote:

"That was the demo," replied God.


Or "That was the screen-saver" ... icon_biggrin.gif
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shiraz.virani wrote:
Quote:
Ismailism does not depend on reading books, it depend on the love of the Murid for his Imam. That is the foundation stone.


True admin bhai !!.....but sometimes people idolise imam which is again a sin as mentioned by 48th imam....loving someone and worshipping someone are two completely different subjects

Quote:
Knowledge of Ismailism depends on reading first and foremost the Farmans, that is the place where Ismailism is defined.


Admin bhai which firmans are you talking about ??? The ones that are edited by ITREB ?? I dont even have to go in much detail we all know recently Dr.Shafik testified in court that H.Imam thinks in french and speaks in english...lol....thus sometimes there are mistakes or in other words editing is compulsory......admin bhai can the edited firman of agakhan be treated as firman ???

Quote:
Allah and Imam can only be defined properly based on knowledge coming from the Farmans. This is the path for us. This is the only path for us.


True again !!!

Quote:
Imam said it is the responsibility of the Imam of the Time to protect Farmans and Ginans. There should be a serious reason he said that.


There might be various known reasons behind this but lets just not get into much detail

Quote:
Other religion also set their own path to the truth and they may well reach it one day but we have been shown the short cut...


Yup....different people have different take on this

Quote:
I know some people like to climb stairs, they feel it build their muscles, good for them! But me, I am quite fat and heavy, I get tired fast so I like to take the lift especially when there are too many floors to climb and too little time for it.


hehehe.....but admin bhai If you're a fatty then i would suggest you to take the stairs... as climbing stairs is not limited to building muscles....it is the easiest and the most convinient way to burn calories [IMPURITIES] , lose weight [EGO] and obtain results [SIRATAL MUSTAKIM] , whereas Lift is of no use if there's a power outage , hehehehe icon_razz.gif icon_biggrin.gif



==========================



shiraz.virani wrote:

Admin bhai which firmans are you talking about ??? The ones that are edited by ITREB ?? I dont even have to go in much detail we all know recently Dr.Shafik testified in court that H.Imam thinks in french and speaks in english...lol....thus sometimes there are mistakes or in other words editing is compulsory......admin bhai can the edited firman of agakhan be treated as firman ???



I know it's an old post, but I am trying to catch up on some readings ... icon_smile.gif

@viru - let me give you an analogy, and you maybe able to see what's the point!

Assume you are a student and the teacher asks the students in the class to read a short story and analyze the symbolizm, methaphore Simile (Remember Qura'an /Firma /Hadees are full of symbolism/methaphore/similie). Each student will write according to his/her understanding and knowledge about the short story. At the end of the day, some students will get A+ (maybe two students with two different analysis), some gets B and some gets F. Why? because each student will comprehend according to the level of understanding what the author is trying to say.

Finally, and very possibily the best person who can describe/analyze correctly and possibily the real meaning of all the elements in the short story and teach all the students will be the teacher in the classroom.


Now, I want you to read it carefully. Even two students with different analysis could get A+. It's not like mathematics that you have to get 4 when you have 2+2 otherwise your answer is wrong. The author let the reader to interpret and analyse according to his/her understanding. And the one who gets the real meaning of it -- the one that what the author is really thinking -- is the lucky one.


Second, Translation is completely different than analysis. You may think in french and speak in english or italian. You can say "I go to school" or Je vais a l'école" but bottom line is doesn't matter if you walk or take the bus, or drive your mercedez. The point is made.

Same way, you are so boasting about posting translations of Qura'an in most of your posts. Let me ask you then: How sure are you that the original text of Qura'an hasn't been altered? How sure are you that the translation -- first of all -- is accurate? As you may know that thinking in Arabic and writing in English is completley different and some vocabularies may not even exist in English, but the translator tries to choose the closest word to it.

So, to make it short, when you read Qura'an/Firman/Hadees, it all depends on the level of your understanding. At the end of the day, you may get an A+ or an F. Only the teacher will know the answer. I hope you know what I mean.
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
In my thinking pirs always appointed from prophet Mohammad's family (AALE RASOOL) nobody can become a pir if he/she is not from prophet Mohd's and Hazar Ali's (AULADE ALI) family.
As per the history of Ismaili pirs prophet Mohammad was 1st Ismaili pir, second pir was Hazarat Hasan (a.s.) and current imam Shah Karim is 50th pirs that means all pirs should have same noorani power which noorani power prophet Mohammad had, now if any prophets can do the magic then why not the pirs? they also have same power.

In ismailism pirs and prophet are same and they have same noorni power so if any prophet can make magic then pirs also can do it. (call sun on eath) As per Ismaili akida Imam has Allah's noor and same Allah's noor also has pirs.

Unfortunately some Ismailis are not understand the importance roll of pirs and they compare pirs with other not appointed pir like pir Nashir Khushru, In my opinion there are big difference between appointed (PUTHIA NA PIRS) and not appointed pirs, that is why we recite salwat whenever the name of appointed pirs call in JK, we should not recite salwat for not appointed pir like Syed Imamshah, Nasir khushru e.t.c.


The magic topics was popes up when you argue that pir can not do the magic (call sun on earth) and therefore I explained it in detail giving the example of other prophets.



==================


agakhani wrote:

Unfortunately some Ismailis are not understand the importance roll of pirs and they compare pirs with other not appointed pir like pir Nashir Khushru, In my opinion there are big difference between appointed (PUTHIA NA PIRS) and not appointed pirs, that is why we recite salwat whenever the name of appointed pirs call in JK, we should not recite salwat for not appointed pir like Syed Imamshah, Nasir khushru e.t.c.

@agakhani - Can you enlighten us and describe what's difference between an appointed and a non-appointed Pir? Besides, I'd suggest to do some readings on Pir Hakim Nasir Khusraw-e Balkhi. He has reached the level of Huj'at. If you know what does it mean if one reaches Huj'at level, then you should know and term appointed/non-appointed would be a non-issue.
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tret



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
Admin wrote:
To say that Pir is only for Ismailis is the same as people saying the Imam is only for Ismailis. Or people saying Allah is only for Muslims. Just another mistaken understanding of what the Imam is and what Pir is.....

Absolutely! The Pir prays for the salvation of others as well. Below is an excerpt from The Memoirs (page 1icon_cool.gif.

"And I further pray that all who truly and sincerely believe in God, be they Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or Brahmin, who strive to do good and avoid evil, who are gentle and kind, will be joined in Heaven and be granted final pardon and peace."



===============


Very well said: And we don't have to go too far, viru! We just simply need to see that our beloved Hazir Imam is doing so much to other development countries in Africa and Asia where all other human beings who aren't even ismailies benefits from its programs. This simply means that Imam not only thinks about His murids and their well beings but he thinks about human kinds in general and tries to help them out where possible.
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@agakhani - Can you enlighten us and describe what's difference between an appointed and a non-appointed Pir? Besides, I'd suggest to do some readings on Pir Hakim Nasir Khusraw-e Balkhi.


Of course but before that I want to make one clarification and which is as below:-

PIR ALSO CALLED IMAM MUSTAWADA OR HUJJATUL IMAM

Appointed pirs are those persons who appointed by Mowla, these pirs also called 'PUTHIA NA PIRS" like pir shams, Pir Sadardin, Pir Hasan kabirdin e.t.c.
non-appointed pirs means those person/pirs who are not appointed by Mowla, but they have authority to preach in jamats, compose ginans or Qasidas same like appointed pirs, these pirs and these pirs were pir Nasir Khusraw, Pir Imamshah, Pir Gulmalisha, Pir Sabzali, Pir Ismail Gangji e.t.c.'
An older and wise men also called 'PIR' in Persian language, so as long as your cquestion about Pir Nasir Khuswaw; he was a big aalim, wise man , he composed many Qasidas and he preached and converted many murids from Afghanistan, Russia , Hunza, Chitral border that is why we are calling him as a pir but he was not appointed pir therefore we are not recite salwat on his name.
About Hujjat:-
According one Admin's older post :-
The confusion is because THE PIR is also called HUJJATUL IMAM, this is not the 12 hujjats which are sent to preach in the 12 Jazirah or 12 parts of the world. There are always 12 companions with the PIR. One of the 12 hujjats sent during that time was Nassir Khusraw, therefore the confusion.
Of course THE PIR as in IMAM MUSTAWDA is unique at all time, He is the epiphany of the Attributes in the same way the Imam is the epiphany of the Essence.
There are many links in this forum related to pirs few are below:-

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=7146&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=pirs&start=0
list of Ismaili pirs:-
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=551&highlight=hujjatul+imam
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
Quote:
@agakhani - Can you enlighten us and describe what's difference between an appointed and a non-appointed Pir? Besides, I'd suggest to do some readings on Pir Hakim Nasir Khusraw-e Balkhi.


Of course but before that I want to make one clarification and which is as below:-

PIR ALSO CALLED IMAM MUSTAWADA OR HUJJATUL IMAM

Appointed pirs are those persons who appointed by Mowla, these pirs also called 'PUTHIA NA PIRS" like pir shams, Pir Sadardin, Pir Hasan kabirdin e.t.c.
non-appointed pirs means those person/pirs who are not appointed by Mowla, but they have authority to preach in jamats, compose ginans or Qasidas same like appointed pirs, these pirs and these pirs were pir Nasir Khusraw, Pir Imamshah, Pir Gulmalisha, Pir Sabzali, Pir Ismail Gangji e.t.c.'
An older and wise men also called 'PIR' in Persian language, so as long as your cquestion about Pir Nasir Khuswaw; he was a big aalim, wise man , he composed many Qasidas and he preached and converted many murids from Afghanistan, Russia , Hunza, Chitral border that is why we are calling him as a pir but he was not appointed pir therefore we are not recite salwat on his name.
About Hujjat:-
According one Admin's older post :-
The confusion is because THE PIR is also called HUJJATUL IMAM, this is not the 12 hujjats which are sent to preach in the 12 Jazirah or 12 parts of the world. There are always 12 companions with the PIR. One of the 12 hujjats sent during that time was Nassir Khusraw, therefore the confusion.
Of course THE PIR as in IMAM MUSTAWDA is unique at all time, He is the epiphany of the Attributes in the same way the Imam is the epiphany of the Essence.
There are many links in this forum related to pirs few are below:-

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=7146&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=pirs&start=0
list of Ismaili pirs:-
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=551&highlight=hujjatul+imam


Well for a little more info, I'd suggest you read the definition of a Hujat in our tariqa, here.


http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/2060
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tret



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.sacredweb.com/online_articles/sw9_hunsberger.html
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tret,

Thanks for the links, after reading the definition of the word "Hujjat" what I understand is? The word Hujjat is more fit to Imam and Imamat rather then pir and piratan, below are some more clarification for you about your questions hope you will satisfy after reading it:-

1, Pir and Imam are two different authorities.
2, Both should be from AHLE-BAIT family.
3, Both should be present on earth all the time.
4, Pirs always appointed by Imam of the time.
5, There were some pirs in past who were not granted "PIRATAN" from
Imam of their time but their Ginans are still spoken in Jamat Khanas.
These type pirs usally call SYED.
6, During the time of Imam Mustansiribillah and after Pir Tajdin a book
name "PANDIYATE JAWAMARDI" written by Imam Mustansiribillah was
Ismaili pir.
7, PIR is persian word and it means, old respectable/reputable person/wise person, Pir Nasir Khusaru called pir in this respect but he was not appointed pir by imam of that time he wrote many Qasida which is praise of Allah and Imam.
8. There is no 'Pir' word in Arabic language, because there is no " P" letter
in Arabic alphabet. You can use Al-Mustwad instead of Pir.
9, In Ismaili tradition some believes that pir is apeareance from Lord
Brahma, and Imam's apeareace is from Lord Vishnu. There are
many Ginans on this topic in Gujarati, Khojki and other Indo languages
for above reference.
10,Pir Sabzali and Mukhi Ismail Gangji received pir title after their death.
but they both were not form AHLE-Bait family, they received Pir title
because of their excellent Khidmat of Jamat and Imam.
11, There are big differences between QASIDA and GINANS.Ginans cover
almost all the fields and are loded with RUHANIAYAT, Qasida is Praise
of Allah.
12, Pir Nasir Khusaru's Qasida are reciting in northen part of Pakistan, he was not appointed pir but great missionaries who converted many Ismailis
13, There was only one female pir in history of Ismaili pirs her name was Mata Salamat and she was mother of Imam Hasan Ali Shah.
14, The youngest pir was pir Abul Hasan Shah, he received piratan at age of only one month, he lived only six months.
15, There is only one book available or written on the subject of "History of Ismaili pirs, the name of this books is "PIR PADHARYA AAPNE DWAR 1-2" written by wellknown missionary ALIBHAI NANJI in Gujarati language.
This is a great book for researcher and scholars who have interest in the history of Ismaili pirs, in this book you find detail information about 50 pirs there bio data, complete list of their ginans, miracles done by them, date of their birth and death e.t.c. unfortunately no English translation has been made of this books yet but I still recommend to read who knows Gujarati.
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tret



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
Tret,

Thanks for the links, after reading the definition of the word "Hujjat" what I understand is? The word Hujjat is more fit to Imam and Imamat rather then pir and piratan, below are some more clarification for you about your questions hope you will satisfy after reading it:-

1, Pir and Imam are two different authorities.
2, Both should be from AHLE-BAIT family.
3, Both should be present on earth all the time.
4, Pirs always appointed by Imam of the time.
5, There were some pirs in past who were not granted "PIRATAN" from
Imam of their time but their Ginans are still spoken in Jamat Khanas.
These type pirs usally call SYED.
6, During the time of Imam Mustansiribillah and after Pir Tajdin a book
name "PANDIYATE JAWAMARDI" written by Imam Mustansiribillah was
Ismaili pir.
7, PIR is persian word and it means, old respectable/reputable person/wise person, Pir Nasir Khusaru called pir in this respect but he was not appointed pir by imam of that time he wrote many Qasida which is praise of Allah and Imam.
8. There is no 'Pir' word in Arabic language, because there is no " P" letter
in Arabic alphabet. You can use Al-Mustwad instead of Pir.
9, In Ismaili tradition some believes that pir is apeareance from Lord
Brahma, and Imam's apeareace is from Lord Vishnu. There are
many Ginans on this topic in Gujarati, Khojki and other Indo languages
for above reference.
10,Pir Sabzali and Mukhi Ismail Gangji received pir title after their death.
but they both were not form AHLE-Bait family, they received Pir title
because of their excellent Khidmat of Jamat and Imam.
11, There are big differences between QASIDA and GINANS.Ginans cover
almost all the fields and are loded with RUHANIAYAT, Qasida is Praise
of Allah.
12, Pir Nasir Khusaru's Qasida are reciting in northen part of Pakistan, he was not appointed pir but great missionaries who converted many Ismailis
13, There was only one female pir in history of Ismaili pirs her name was Mata Salamat and she was mother of Imam Hasan Ali Shah.
14, The youngest pir was pir Abul Hasan Shah, he received piratan at age of only one month, he lived only six months.
15, There is only one book available or written on the subject of "History of Ismaili pirs, the name of this books is "PIR PADHARYA AAPNE DWAR 1-2" written by wellknown missionary ALIBHAI NANJI in Gujarati language.
This is a great book for researcher and scholars who have interest in the history of Ismaili pirs, in this book you find detail information about 50 pirs there bio data, complete list of their ginans, miracles done by them, date of their birth and death e.t.c. unfortunately no English translation has been made of this books yet but I still recommend to read who knows Gujarati.



Thanks for this info.

All I wanted to clarify was that Nasir Khusru was not an ordinary scholar; he was way more beyond that. Qasida (according to you different than ginan; which we can talk later about) is only one aspect of his work; you can read many other books that he wrote for your reference.

So, do you say Hujat is the title reserved only for Imam? please clarify!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
All I wanted to clarify was that Nasir Khusru was not an ordinary scholar; he was way more beyond that.


You are absolutely right that Nasir Khusru was not an ordinary scholar, he was great poet, great philosopher, great missionary, great preacher, great aalim and that is why not Ismailis only but many other also respect him.

The only mistake some Ismailis are making is that they consider him as our appointed pir but he was not appointed pir.
Please remember this only appointed pirs contains 'NOOR OF NABUWAT" in this theory Nasir Khusru was not appointed pir so that he didn't had Noor of Nabuwat and that was the only different between appointed pirs and Nasir Khusaru had other than that he was great scholar, great poet, great aalim; no doubt about that.
Quote:
So, do you say Hujat is the title reserved only for Imam? please clarify!

That is what I found after reading the definition of word "Hujjat" as per my little ability, I may be wrong, if you think my thinking is wrong then please let me know what do you thing?
Can you suggest me names of books of Nasir khusaru in English, Urdu, Gujarati, Hindi or Khojaki.
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tret



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
That is what I found after reading the definition of word "Hujjat"


I don't think so. Please research on 7 level (degree) which starts from Imam, Hujat, Da'i ... You'll find out who's Imam, who's Hujat. Imam obviously has all the qualities of other levels.
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tret



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the books, here are some that I can think of: There could be more...

Not sure if they are available in other languages (Even if there are, they could be translated version, and not original which is in Persian)


wajh-i-din
zaad al-musafirin
safarnama
diwan
gushayish wa rahayish
book on mathematics
rooshnahi-namah (Book of Enlightenment)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading 'Hujjat' definition again and again and also the definition of Imam, I accepting that Hujjat is fit more to Dai/pirs not imam, I take my words back which was written earlier, thanks for the correcting me.

After reading the definitions of 'imam' and 'Hujjat' all of sudden two words popes up in my mind; "HUJJATUL IMAM" I tried to find out the meaning of above words but I couldn't. But some how my thinking emphasizes me that these two words are also fitting to the dais/pirs, any comments?
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agakhani



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks you very much I already read:-
1, Safarnama, very good book on travelling
2, Wajah -e- din; what a great books is this! every Ismaili should read this book.
3, Roshhanai nama.

The remaining books I will look in my local library and if available I will read it. Thanks again.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paradise, the New Muslim Utopia

ORAN, Algeria — Future writing project: a topography of paradise in the medieval Muslim imagination. But not only medieval, for among Muslims today paradise is also at the center of political discourse, sermons and the contemporary imagination. Paradise as a goal for the individual or the group has gradually replaced the dreams of development, stability and wealth promised by postwar decolonization in the so-called Arab world. These days, one imagines happy tomorrows only after death, not before.

“Paradise decks itself in delights,” an editorial writer mused in an Algerian Islamist newspaper during the most recent Ramadan, the month of fasting. The declaration was followed by descriptions of the charms, the delights, the joys that await the faithful after death. This fantasy of paradise, amply depicted as a place of pleasures, with sex and wine, golden adornments and silk apparel, is the opposite of earthly life — and of the frustrations experienced in Arab countries afflicted by economic failures, wars and bloody dictatorships.

Firdaus (a remote ancestor of the word “paradise,” derived from the Persian) was promised by the Quran and has been abundantly described in religious literature for centuries. But in recent years, paradise has also become the country dreamed of by the poor, the unemployed, the believer — and the jihadist, thanks to certain religious elites who promote it as a means of recruitment.

This is a fascinating renewal of the concept of happiness that was dominant a half-century ago. Back then, the countries of the Maghreb and the Middle East — born out of decolonization often violently wrested from occupying forces that had imposed on them war, poverty and misery — advocated for a vision of the future based on independence, egalitarianism, development, wealth creation, justice and coexistence.

That vision of utopia within human reach, which was taken up by the socialist or communist elites and even some monarchies, was a shared political dream, and it gave legitimacy to those new regimes in the eyes of both their own peoples and foreign governments. Decolonization was the era of grand slogans about the advancement of peoples and modernization through massive infrastructure projects.

But that dream has aged badly, because of the bloody-mindedness of those authoritarian regimes and the political failures of the left in the Arab world.

Today, one has to be a Muslim – by faith, culture or place of residence – in order to experience the full weight of the new post-mortem utopia of the Islamosphere circulating on the internet and the media. It conditions people’s imaginations, political speech, coffee-shop daydreams and the desperation of the younger generations. Paradise has come back into fashion, described in mind-boggling detail by preachers, imams and Islamist fantasy literature.

Its main selling point: women, who are promised in vast numbers as a reward for the righteous. The women of paradise, the houris, are beautiful, submissive, languorous virgins. The idea of them feeds a barely believable form of erotico-Islamism that drives jihadists and gets other men to fantasize about escaping the sexual misery of everyday life. Suicide bombers or misogynists, they share the same dream.

What about the women allowed into the eternal garden? If men can have dozens of virgins, what of the women, especially considering the machismo of those earthbound dream-makers? The preachers’ responses can be amusing: The woman’s heavenly reward is to be her husband’s happy wife throughout eternity, the two of them destined to enjoy perpetual conjugal felicity, at the symbolic age of 33 and in good health. And if the woman is divorced? A preacher replies that she will be remarried to a dead man who was also divorced.

Curiously, this dream of a Muslim paradise finds itself confronted with another dream at once antagonistic and similar: the West. Generating passion or hatred for the Muslim believer and the jihadist alike, the West and its indulgences represent another facet of the post-mortem Muslim paradise. One dreams of going there, whether as migrant or as martyr. One dreams of going to the West and of living and dying there, or of subjugating and destroying it.

The new Muslim utopia weighs heavily on today’s Arab world. What motivates the masses, gives sense to their despair, lightens the weight of the world and compensates for sorrow no longer is the promise of a rich and happy country, as was the case after decolonization; it’s a vision of paradise in the afterlife. But this fantasy of eternal bliss also causes uneasiness: For however much one wishes to ignore this, the fact remains that in order to get to heaven, one first has to die.

Kamel Daoud, a columnist for Quotidien d’Oran, is the author of the novel “The Meursault Investigation.” This essay was translated by John Cullen from the French.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/opinion/paradise-the-new-muslim-utopia.html?emc=edit_ty_20160802&nl=opinion&nlid=71987722&_r=0

Lire en français (Read in French)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/opinion/le-paradis-musulman-nouvelle-utopie-politique.html
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HUM KO MA'LUM HAI JANAT KI HAQIQAT LEKIN
DIL KE BAHLANEY KO GALIB YE KHAYAL ACHHA HAI

MIRZA GALIB.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heaven or Hell?

*A person asked a question to his Guru, "My workers are not true to me. My children, my wife and the entire world is very selfish. No body is correct."*

*Guru smiled and told a story...,*

*In one small village there was a room with 1000 mirrors. One small girl used to go inside and play.! Seeing thousands of children around her she was joyful.*

*She would clap her hands and all the 1000 children would clap back at her*

*She considered this place as the world's happiest n beautiful place and would visit often.*

*This same place was once visited by a sad n a depressed person.*

*He saw around him thousands of angry men staring at him*

*He got scared and raised his hands to hit them and in return 1000 hands lifted to hit him back.*

*He thought... this is the worst place in the world and left that place.*

*This world is also a room with 1000 mirrors around you... What we let out of us is what the universe will give back to us.!!*

*"This world is a heaven. Or Hell.. It's up to us what we make out of it..." said the Guru....*
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Don’t search for heaven and hell in the future. Both are now present. Whenever we manage to love without expectations, calculations, negotiations, we are indeed in heaven. Whenever we fight, hate, we are in hell.”

.....Shams al Tabriz
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad: My point of view..
Heaven and hell is the state of the mind of that person with surrounding circumstances and the place he/she resides with grace and bounty. or hardship and travails of nature around it.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus said, ‘If those who push you around say to you, ‘Behold, the kingdom is in the sky,’ the birds of the sky would enter her before you. And if they say to you that she is under the earth in the watery abyss, then the fish of the sea would enter her before you. But the kingdom of God is both inside you and manifest to the outer eye. One who knows oneself will find the kingdom, and when you know yourselves, you will be known, and you will see that you are children of the living father. But if you do not know who you are, you will dwell in poverty and you will be that poverty’

Gospel of Thomas 3, trans. Samuel Zinner

https://thecorner.wordpress.com/2018/08/28/and-when-you-know-yourselves/
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aatimaram



Joined: 12 Apr 2018
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About Hell:

Hell is God's absence.
Hell is hopeless anguish.
Hell is wrath of God.
Hell is separation.
Hell is burning inside.
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aatimaram



Joined: 12 Apr 2018
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is Hell?

How can one describe Hell when he has not visited it?
Is Hell above skies or under world (paatal)?
Is Hell a burning furnace? Is that furnace burn bodies or souls?
Is Hell a part of God's Noor?
Is there any spiritual Hell?
Is death permanent anesthesia?
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Admin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah, the damages done to oneself due to ones' own ignorance is his own punishment of Hell.

He call it "Bekhabari no guranj" which hurts a lot.
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shivatrivedi



Joined: 02 Nov 2018
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
According to Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah, the damages done to oneself due to ones' own ignorance is his own punishment of Hell.

He call it "Bekhabari no guranj" which hurts a lot.


You quote few words of Farman out of context. I was looking for the Farman, finally I found it and posting for readers.

"Amara Farman praman(n)e nahi chalso tou tamey preshaan tha sho. Tiya(n)a LOKHAND (iron) tatha aatish (fire) na GURAJ (an old weapon of battle) tamara matha ma marwa ma avishey tiya(n) tamey pukar karsho aney kahsho 'touba touba'. Raat devas GURAJ matha ma lagshey. Bekhabari nu GURAJ ghan(n)u eeja (pain) pohinchar nar chhey.................
Hazrat Murtaza Ali eek devis NAMAZ ne wakhat farmaviyu(n) ke "Khudaya maney behshat ne tamana nathi, tem hu(n) dozakh thi dharto nathi, je dukh devu(n) hoya te mone de, mara thi sarai ker, hu(n) taro ASHIQ chhu(n), haqiqat ee chhey". MSMS Dares salam 1899.

Those who do not follow our Farmans shall be in distress. There GURAJ (a kind of battle weapon) of iron and fire will be hit on your head, there you will cry and say 'TOUBA TOUBA'. Day and night that GURAJ will keep hitting your head. Uninformed and sudden hitting (of guranj) is very pain full........
One day at time of Namaz Hazrat Murtaza Ali said," O Lord (khudaya) I do not desire Behisht (paradise) nor I am afraid of Dozakh (hell), what ever suffering or pain you want to inflict on me is fine, I am your ASHIQ (lover), this is the reality. MSMS
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivatrivedi wrote:
Uninformed and sudden hitting (of guranj) is very pain full........


I don't know where you learned your Gujrati, maybe though Urdu dictionary) but your translation is a mockery of what Imam said. This is called post fact, a translation though the blurred vision of a shariati. No wonder the Imam said those who are sunk in Shariat will never understand his Farmans.
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