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time period of jugs and avatar
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 17637

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More evidence of civilizations existing well before the present Kaliyuga and perhaps being part of Satya Yuga. It also reinforces the cyclical theory of civilizations.

Archaeologists Find 30,000-Year-Old Jewelry in Indonesia

We have thousands of examples of Ice Age works from Europe—curvy Venus figurines, beads and other carved artifacts, and cave paintings of saber-toothed cats and mammoths dating back some 35,000 years. Those sites are also the best documented in the world, having been studied since the 19th century.

Evidence of the earliest art on other continents is much more scant, but it's increasingly being recorded across the world. In the latest study that attempts to offer a more complete picture of human creativity, researchers report that they’ve discovered jewelry and pigments inside of an Ice Age cave in Indonesia that are between 22,000 and 30,000 years old. They published their findings today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Archaeologist Adam Brumm and his colleagues have been seeking traces of the earliest inhabitants of Sulawesi. The island is shaped a bit like a withered starfish and it’s the biggest in Wallacea, the region between the Asian and Australian continental shelves.

The researchers made headlines in 2014 when they discovered [PDF] that cave artwork among the towering karst formations on Sulawesi’s southwestern peninsula could be among the oldest in the world. Using a precise dating method, they documented hand stencils that are nearly 40,000 years old. They also found a figurative painting of pig-deer (or babirusa) that was more than 35,000 years old, rivaling the age of the animal paintings inside France’s famous Chauvet Cave.

As detailed in the current study, the archaeologists excavated the floor of another cave known as Leang Bulu Bettue.

“We started digging at this limestone cave because it was the only site I had seen in the region which seemed to have escaped the ravages of erosion and disturbance from local farmers digging up the guano-rich cave earth for use as fertilizer,” Brumm, who is an associate professor at Griffith University in Australia, tells mental_floss. The cave also had rock art preserved on its walls and ceilings—red and purple hand stencils that are identical to some of the nearby cave paintings described in 2014.

So, the researchers suspected they would find some undisturbed archaeological deposits—and indeed they did.

They dug up stone artifacts carved with geometric patterns like Xs and parallel lines, as well as chunks of ochre, a natural pigment that was used in cave painting. They unearthed a perforated finger bone from a local bear cuscus, a kind of marsupial, that was possibly used for a necklace, and they found unfinished disk-shaped beads made from a babirusa tooth. The artifacts date to between 22,000 and 30,000 years ago.

Brumm says that of Wallacea’s 2000 islands, only seven have so far yielded archaeological deposits from the Pleistocene, the epoch when the last Ice Age occurred. Therefore, the total number of artifacts from the region is “pitifully small,” he says, perhaps numbering only a dozen or so.


“This profound imbalance in research intensity makes it extremely difficult to draw meaningful comparisons between the ‘Ice Age’ cultures of Wallacea and Europe,” Brumm says.

The fact that the newly discovered artifacts were made from the bones of animals that are only found on Sulawesi suggests that early humans were “drawn to the symbolic potential of the exotic species they encountered” when they colonized this region, Brumm says.

“This speaks of a flexibility in early human culture in this little understood part of the ‘Ice Age’ world—an ability to adapt existing art forms and symbolic culture to entirely new environments and ecosystems,” Brumm adds. And he thinks it’s exactly this kind of flexibility that would have allowed people from this region to colonize an isolated continent like Australia around 50,000 years ago.

Archaeologist Iain Davidson, an emeritus professor at the University of New England in Australia, who wasn’t involved in the study, similarly thinks the same skills that allowed people to make watercraft and navigate across Wallacea “should have enabled them to represent their world symbolically.”

Davidson calls the discovery very important "primarily because it adds to the emerging picture of an early rock art world in the region where there has been thought to be none; now it is clear that there is,” Davidson tells mental_floss. “It was always likely, but maybe only a matter of looking and using the appropriate techniques, which is what this team has done really well.”

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/offbeat/archaeologists-find-30000-year-old-jewelry-in-indonesia/ar-BBzmhhH?li=AAggFp5&ocid=mailsignout
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 17637

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:

A short discussion with mathematical calculation of the yugas or ages will
explain the fact that the present age for the world is Dwapura Yuga, and
that 194 years of the Yuga have now (A.D. 1894) passed away, bringing a
rapid development in man’s knowledge.

We learn from Oriental astronomy that moons revolve around their planets, and planets turning on their axes revolve with their moons round the sun; and sun, with its planets and their moons, takes some star for its dual and revolves round it in about 24,000 years of our earth – a celestial
phenomenon which causes the backward movement of the equinoctial points around the zodiac. The sun also has another motion by which it revolves round a grand centre called Vishnunabhi, which is the seat of creative power, Brahma, the universal magnetism. Brahma regulates dharma, the mental virtue of the internal world.

When the sun in its revolution round its dual comes to the place nearest to
this grand centre, the seat of Brahma (an event which takes place when the Autumnal Equinox comes to the first point of Aries), dharma, the mental virtue, becomes so much developed that man can easily comprehend all, even the mysteries of Sprirt.

There is evidence today that every star is born with a twin which confirms the theory of the Dual of the sun outlined above by Swami Sri Yukteshwar.

New evidence that all stars are born in pairs

Did our sun have a twin when it was born 4.5 billion years ago?

Almost certainly yes—though not an identical twin. And so did every other sunlike star in the universe, according to a new analysis by a theoretical physicist from UC Berkeley and a radio astronomer from the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory at Harvard University.

Many stars have companions, including our nearest neighbor, Alpha Centauri, a triplet system. Astronomers have long sought an explanation. Are binary and triplet star systems born that way? Did one star capture another? Do binary stars sometimes split up and become single stars?

Astronomers have even searched for a companion to our sun, a star dubbed Nemesis because it was supposed to have kicked an asteroid into Earth's orbit that collided with our planet and exterminated the dinosaurs. It has never been found.

More..
https://m.phys.org/news/2017-06-evidence-stars-born-pairs.html
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article below suggests that our ancestors were capable of advanced symbolic thought capable of producing enduring artifacts which have been discovered and dated recently.

This vindicates the theory of cyclical view of rise and fall of civilizations as opposed to a linear view.

Neanderthals, the World’s First Misunderstood Artists

It’s long been an insult to be called a Neanderthal. But the more these elusive, vanished people have been studied, the more respect they’ve gained among scientists.

On Thursday, a team of researchers offered compelling evidence that Neanderthals bore one of the chief hallmarks of mental sophistication: they could paint cave art. That talent suggests that Neanderthals could think in symbols and may have achieved other milestones not preserved in the fossil record.

“When you have symbols, then you have language,” said João Zilhão, an archaeologist at the University of Barcelona and co-author of the new study.

More...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/science/neanderthals-cave-paintings-europe.html?em_pos=large&emc=edit_sc_20180226&nl=science-times&nlid=71987722&ref=headline&te=1
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FreeLancer



Joined: 13 Feb 2018
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
The article below suggests that our ancestors were capable of advanced symbolic thought capable of producing enduring artifacts which have been discovered and dated recently.

This vindicates the theory of cyclical view of rise and fall of civilizations as opposed to a linear view.

Neanderthals, the World’s First Misunderstood Artists

It’s long been an insult to be called a Neanderthal. But the more these elusive, vanished people have been studied, the more respect they’ve gained among scientists.

On Thursday, a team of researchers offered compelling evidence that Neanderthals bore one of the chief hallmarks of mental sophistication: they could paint cave art. That talent suggests that Neanderthals could think in symbols and may have achieved other milestones not preserved in the fossil record.

“When you have symbols, then you have language,” said João Zilhão, an archaeologist at the University of Barcelona and co-author of the new study.

More...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/science/neanderthals-cave-paintings-europe.html?em_pos=large&emc=edit_sc_20180226&nl=science-times&nlid=71987722&ref=headline&te=1


This suggests Neanderthals were part of Evolution theory and not religious story.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeLancer wrote:

This suggests Neanderthals were part of Evolution theory and not religious story.
If they were part of evolution theory, they would be primitive. However evidence suggests otherwise. In my opinion they lived in one of the periods of Satya Yuga (period of high civilization and mental advancement) which our tradition has informed us about.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further evidence of advanced civilizations during pre-historic times...

10 Ancient Mysteries Researchers Still Can’t Explain

Slide show:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/10-ancient-mysteries-researchers-still-can%E2%80%99t-explain/ss-AAvK2Fn?li=AAggNb9&ocid=mailsignout#image=1
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 17637

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mystery behind the construction of the pyramids in Egypt suggests that people during the prehistoric times in the higher Yugas were more advanced than commonly held notions of them being primitive. We may have lost important pieces of knowledge during the dark ages of the Kali Yuga.

Incredible Discoveries Inside The Pyramids Of Egypt

The Egyptian pyramids are one of the most mysterious wonders of the world, and after centuries of research, scientist still can't confirm how exactly they were made. Though archeologists have managed to pinpoint a few things about these gigantic burial sites, each day uncovers a brand new mystery.

When it comes to pyramids, we're constantly reminded that we've only scratched the surface. Here are some incredible discoveries about the ancient pyramids of Giza – the only one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World that survived.

http://www.trend-chaser.com/history/incredible-discoveries-inside-the-pyramids-of-egypt/?utm_source=tb&utm_medium=msn-can-home-tb&utm_term=Scientists+Make+Incredible+Discovery+In+Great+Pyramid-https%3A%2F%2Fconsole.brax-cdn.com%2Fcreatives%2Fb86bbc0b-1fab-4ae3-9b34-fef78c1a7488%2F8_ipe_5e8be7061f15be093f5989975133cf52.600x500.png&utm_content=82886635&utm_campaign=1143356-tb&chrome=1&intexp=1
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The monuments illustrated in the article below suggest that people in prehistoric times and in advanced ages of Duapur, Treta and Satya Yuga were far advanced than what the conventional theory of linear progress suggests. It seems knowledge may have been lost in the dark age of Kaliyuga.

Mysterious monuments from ancient civilizations

Slide show:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/tripideas/mysterious-monuments-from-ancient-civilizations/ss-AAwudTp?li=AAggNb9&ocid=mailsignout#image=1

To this day, some monuments left behind by ancient civilizations remain a mystery to researchers and archaeologists. If you seek out history and adventure when you travel, here are 22 enigmatic sites that will excite your inner Indiana Jones.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article below suggests that ancient civilizations that spanned Duapur, Treta and Satya Yugas were far more advanced than what the current linear thinking posits. Cyclical theory is suggested.

Slide show at:

15 ancient civilizations you’ve never heard of

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/photos/15-ancient-civilizations-you%E2%80%99ve-never-heard-of/ss-AAAlpQK?li=AAggFp5&ocid=mailsignout#image=1
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article below suggests existence of advanced civilizations in pre-historic times spanning Duapur, Treta and Satya Yugas.

Oldest Known Drawing by Human Hands Discovered in South African Cave

Nine red lines on a stone flake found in a South African cave may be the earliest known drawing made by Homo sapiens, archaeologists reported on Wednesday. The artifact, which scientists think is about 73,000 years old, predates the oldest previously known modern human abstract drawings from Europe by about 30,000 years.

“We knew a lot of things Homo sapiens could do, but we didn’t know they could do drawings back then,” said Christopher Henshilwood, an archaeologist from the University of Bergen in Norway and lead author of the study.

The finding, which was published in Nature, may provide insight into the origins of humanity’s use of symbols, which laid the foundation for language, mathematics and civilization.

More...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/science/oldest-drawing-ever-found.html?emc=edit_th_180913&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=453053090913
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few days back I read this report of ancient drawing on internet. This is proving Darwin theory of evolution, slow progress of humanity. Previous 3 yugas were not advanced civilizations in comparison to 4th running yuga. There were no cars, planes, computers, tv, internet, mega factories and modern weapons. In those yugs they were living in open or mud huts and with little clothing. Life was miserable for people. Few zig zag lines on wall of a cave an abstract drawing!! So many more to come.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Few days back I read this report of ancient drawing on internet. This is proving Darwin theory of evolution, slow progress of humanity. Previous 3 yugas were not advanced civilizations in comparison to 4th running yuga. There were no cars, planes, computers, tv, internet, mega factories and modern weapons. In those yugs they were living in open or mud huts and with little clothing. Life was miserable for people. Few zig zag lines on wall of a cave an abstract drawing!! So many more to come.
As I alluded in my previous post, civilizations occur in cycles of ups and downs. Perhaps civilizations were advanced and then declined in the downturn and knowledge was lost. In thousands of years objects can decay to extinction. We really don't know what existed and how people lived back then.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Few days back I read this report of ancient drawing on internet. This is proving Darwin theory of evolution, slow progress of humanity. Previous 3 yugas were not advanced civilizations in comparison to 4th running yuga. There were no cars, planes, computers, tv, internet, mega factories and modern weapons. In those yugs they were living in open or mud huts and with little clothing. Life was miserable for people. Few zig zag lines on wall of a cave an abstract drawing!! So many more to come.
As I alluded in my previous post, civilizations occur in cycles of ups and downs. Perhaps civilizations were advanced and then declined in the downturn and knowledge was lost. In thousands of years objects can decay to extinction. We really don't know what existed and how people lived back then.


Still we are in CHAKARVIEW cycles of zahir and batin, now you started other cycle of ups and down cycles of civilizations. It is a natural phenomena when a nation or civilization reaches its peak (may be 100-150 years) then its down turn starts. When we talk about yugas they are recorded in Hindu mythology literature so we can't use the word extinction. We can't find any mention of modern cars, planes, radios, tv, dish washers, cloth washers, robots etc in stories of Ramayan or Maha Bharta.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
We can't find any mention of modern cars, planes, radios, tv, dish washers, cloth washers, robots etc in stories of Ramayan or Maha Bharta.


First read then make your mind. There are plenty of inventions mentioned which are not only of this time but which even today would be considered surprising, such as wireless audio-video communication, invisible force field like Lakshman Rekha, ships flying across the universe and weapons that the madness of this world will be only creating in the far future.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 17637

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
We can't find any mention of modern cars, planes, radios, tv, dish washers, cloth washers, robots etc in stories of Ramayan or Maha Bharta.
Think about the monuments such as the pyramids that the people of pre-historic times left for us. These have been highlighted in my previous posts and hence I will not repeat them here. Suffice is to say that their construction has not been able to be explained by modern researchers!
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
We can't find any mention of modern cars, planes, radios, tv, dish washers, cloth washers, robots etc in stories of Ramayan or Maha Bharta.


First read then make your mind. There are plenty of inventions mentioned which are not only of this time but which even today would be considered surprising, such as wireless audio-video communication, invisible force field like Lakshman Rekha, ships flying across the universe and weapons that the madness of this world will be only creating in the far future.


The inventions you described are Bollywood movies and t v serial stunts. In early 2017 when you were in India should have visited some movie studios, how they make to fly humans, buildings, ships, cars by using ropes and bamboos. They have like, Flying Jatt, Krish flying Krishna.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
We can't find any mention of modern cars, planes, radios, tv, dish washers, cloth washers, robots etc in stories of Ramayan or Maha Bharta.
Think about the monuments such as the pyramids that the people of pre-historic times left for us. These have been highlighted in my previous posts and hence I will not repeat them here. Suffice is to say that their construction has not been able to be explained by modern researchers!


Were pyramids constructed in Duapur yug or Treta yug? What was the height of Prophet Adam or Noah or their descendants? What time frame can you suggest in which these monuments were constructed?
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Were pyramids constructed in Duapur yug or Treta yug? What was the height of Prophet Adam or Noah or their descendants? What time frame can you suggest in which these monuments were constructed?
According to various dates suggested, it looks like they were constructed in Duapur Yuga. It does not matter when they were constructed in pre-historic times. What matters is that the construction required quite sophisticated knowledge which is beyond the comprehension even today.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

Were pyramids constructed in Duapur yug or Treta yug? What was the height of Prophet Adam or Noah or their descendants? What time frame can you suggest in which these monuments were constructed?
According to various dates suggested, it looks like they were constructed in Duapur Yuga. It does not matter when they were constructed in pre-historic times. What matters is that the construction required quite sophisticated knowledge which is beyond the comprehension even today.


You wrote,"It looks like they were constructed in Duapur yug". Do you have any reference from any book to prove your claim. Prehistoric time is about 5000 BC. My argument is that innovative thinking progressed slowly that's why in that age there were no computers, internet web sites, smart phones and so on.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

You wrote,"It looks like they were constructed in Duapur yug". Do you have any reference from any book to prove your claim. Prehistoric time is about 5000 BC. My argument is that innovative thinking progressed slowly that's why in that age there were no computers, internet web sites, smart phones and so on.
I don't have any reference but by deducing from the dates suggested by various scholars it is my estimation that it could have been Duapur Yuga, but certainly it was pre-historic or ancient period. Pre-historic does not have a definite time frame. Any date earlier than 0 BC is considered pre-historic.

We can't be sure whether there were computers or not. They could have become obsolete and outdated just as technologies of the last century are getting obsolete. In my opinion civilizations progressed in cycles of rise and fall spanning 24,000 years for each cycle of which I have provided explanation in my earlier post and hence will not repeat here.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

You wrote,"It looks like they were constructed in Duapur yug". Do you have any reference from any book to prove your claim. Prehistoric time is about 5000 BC. My argument is that innovative thinking progressed slowly that's why in that age there were no computers, internet web sites, smart phones and so on.
I don't have any reference but by deducing from the dates suggested by various scholars it is my estimation that it could have been Duapur Yuga, but certainly it was pre-historic or ancient period. Pre-historic does not have a definite time frame. Any date earlier than 0 BC is considered pre-historic.

We can't be sure whether there were computers or not. They could have become obsolete and outdated just as technologies of the last century are getting obsolete. In my opinion civilizations progressed in cycles of rise and fall spanning 24,000 years for each cycle of which I have provided explanation in my earlier post and hence will not repeat here.


We are in Kali yuga, Duapur yuga is past, it will not come back. By gone are by gone. There is no consensus among historians when Duapur started and when that era finished. Regarding Pyramids they are around 3000 years old. The Pyramids of Giza were built between 2589 and 2504 BC.

The first, and largest, pyramid at Giza was built by the pharaoh Khufu (reign started around 2551 B.C.). His pyramid, which today stands 455 feet (138 meters) tall, is known as the "Great Pyramid" and was considered to be a wonder of the world by ancient writers.

Most Pyramids in Egypt were built as tombs for the country's pharaohs and their consorts during the Old and Middle Kingdom periods. The earliest known Egyptian pyramids are found at Saqqara, northwest of Memphis. The earliest among these is the Pyramid of Djoser (constructed 2630 BC–2611 BC) which was built during the third dynasty.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

We are in Kali yuga, Duapur yuga is past, it will not come back. By gone are by gone. There is no consensus among historians when Duapur started and when that era finished. Regarding Pyramids they are around 3000 years old. The Pyramids of Giza were built between 2589 and 2504 BC.
According to the cyclical theory of time that I highlighted in my earlier posts and I will not repeat here, we are in the ascending cycle of Duapur Yuga. We are not in Kaliyuga. If the pyramids were built around 2589 BC, then they are 2018 + 2589 years old.
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

We are in Kali yuga, Duapur yuga is past, it will not come back. By gone are by gone. There is no consensus among historians when Duapur started and when that era finished. Regarding Pyramids they are around 3000 years old. The Pyramids of Giza were built between 2589 and 2504 BC.
According to the cyclical theory of time that I highlighted in my earlier posts and I will not repeat here, we are in the ascending cycle of Duapur Yuga. We are not in Kaliyuga. If the pyramids were built around 2589 BC, then they are 2018 + 2589 years old.


In Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, there is no mention of 4 yugas.
I insist we are in Kali yuga because Nar Naklanki is meant for Kali yoga and not to appear in Duapur yuga. For current Duapur yoga you have to admit that Naklanki era is over and humanity is in good hands without Naklanki.
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kmaherali



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

In Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, there is no mention of 4 yugas.
I insist we are in Kali yuga because Nar Naklanki is meant for Kali yoga and not to appear in Duapur yuga. For current Duapur yoga you have to admit that Naklanki era is over and humanity is in good hands without Naklanki.
Ismailism which is a tariqah of Islam, of course mentions the 4 Yugas. Where is it mentioned that Nar Naklanki is meant for Kaliyuga only?
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shivaathervedi



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

In Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, there is no mention of 4 yugas.
I insist we are in Kali yuga because Nar Naklanki is meant for Kali yoga and not to appear in Duapur yuga. For current Duapur yoga you have to admit that Naklanki era is over and humanity is in good hands without Naklanki.
Ismailism which is a tariqah of Islam, of course mentions the 4 Yugas. Where is it mentioned that Nar Naklanki is meant for Kaliyuga only?


Only a part of Ismailism believes in concept of 4 yugas through Ginans. There is no mention of 4 yugas in pre Farimid literature or pre Almout era or in Central Asian areas where Ismailis live. Ginans have not given any time frame of yugas. Time frame is adopted from Hindu mythology.

Satpinthi Ismailis (not all) believe in Das Avtar as mentioned in Ginans, and 3 versions are available in Ginanic literature. The 10th Avtar mentioned is Naklanki to appear in kali yuga as Hari converted to Ali.
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Admin



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Ginans have not given any time frame of yugas. Time frame is adopted from Hindu mythology.


This is complete nonsense. Ginans and granths details the concept and duration of many concept of time such as kshanr, pal, gari, pohor, ayoush. jug. kalap. chokari etc... These are not rare or hidden concepts and durations in ginans and granth. It is only that you have no knowledge in this field, so do not make such misleading propaganda.

One can go through the very elaborated calculation of time concepts in the below ginan and see that knowledge is needed to understand the ginans and the time concept.

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/4070

Eji Tetaalis laakh varas
ane upar vis hajaar;
tenu puraane puraanne lekho kariyo
te chhelo Naklanki avtaar
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 17637

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
Ginans have not given any time frame of yugas. Time frame is adopted from Hindu mythology.

Satpinthi Ismailis (not all) believe in Das Avtar as mentioned in Ginans, and 3 versions are available in Ginanic literature. The 10th Avtar mentioned is Naklanki to appear in kali yuga as Hari converted to Ali.
There is no harm in adopting ideas from other cultures so long as they reinforce and enrich the understanding of our own traditions.

A pertinent statement of MHI:

"All cultures naturally influence each other to a greater or lesser degree; the strongest are those in which the dominant elements remain dominant and refuse to be overwhelmed by external forces. They become stronger still when they retain the ability to select, to absorb that which invigorates and enriches and to reject that which is inimicable." [MHI Speech 26 Sept. 1978]

The time frame for the composition of the Ginans was within the Kali Yuga and hence Naklanki Avtaar is mentioned as the Avtaar of Kali Yuga (the time of the composition of the Ginans). But according to cyclical theory we have past the Kaliyuga and are now in the ascending Duapur Yuga. The Ginans mention Farta Vela which is the turning period from Kali Yuga to Duapur Yuga.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 355

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Ginans have not given any time frame of yugas. Time frame is adopted from Hindu mythology.


This is complete nonsense. Ginans and granths details the concept and duration of many concept of time such as kshanr, pal, gari, pohor, ayoush. jug. kalap. chokari etc... These are not rare or hidden concepts and durations in ginans and granth. It is only that you have no knowledge in this field, so do not make such misleading propaganda.

One can go through the very elaborated calculation of time concepts in the below ginan and see that knowledge is needed to understand the ginans and the time concept.

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/4070

Eji Tetaalis laakh varas
ane upar vis hajaar;
tenu puraane puraanne lekho kariyo
te chhelo Naklanki avtaar



What nonsense? You just indicated the Ginan thread but did not gave its meaning. Heritage site is not showing meaning of this particular Ginan. 85% of total Ismailis hardly know about Ginanic literature except few out of satpunthi circle. Even 90% Khojas/Mominas population do not know Gujrati language. Without meaning it is hard for non speaking Gujrati jamaits to understand pal, pohor, ghari, yug, kalap, and other related terms what they mean. In Ginanic literature each yug's time is not mentioned, how long that cycle continued. Like wise the part you mentioned gives total years of 4 yugas that is 4,300,000+20,000. Pir has given reference of Puranas from where he adopted the total sum of years. Kalyug has the smallest cycle of 432,000 years.
You should have paid attention to my post instead of bashing. What I mentioned is according to part of Ginan:

CHAAR YUG NU LEKHO KARI
HARI YE DHARIYA DAS AVTAR.

TENU PURANE LEKHO KARIYO
TE CHHELO NAKLUNKI AVTAR

"Brahma vaivarta Purana has words spoken by Lord Krishna to Mother Ganga just before the beginning of the Kali Yuga. The Kali Yuga began approximately five thousand years ago, and it has a duration of 432,000 years, leaving us with 427,000 years until the end of the present age".

Can you explain these parts of Ginan you mentioned.

EJI BRAHMA NA POHOR EEK MAA
EK SOW NE ENSI AVTAR - PART 6.

From where 180 Avtars pop up?

EJI BRAHMA NA DIN EEK MAA
INDRA ITTHAA VIS HOY
SAAT SOW NE VIS UPPER KAHIYU(N)
BHAI HARI NA AVTAR SOIE - PART 7.
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 16 May 2018
Posts: 355

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
Ginans have not given any time frame of yugas. Time frame is adopted from Hindu mythology.

Satpinthi Ismailis (not all) believe in Das Avtar as mentioned in Ginans, and 3 versions are available in Ginanic literature. The 10th Avtar mentioned is Naklanki to appear in kali yuga as Hari converted to Ali.
There is no harm in adopting ideas from other cultures so long as they reinforce and enrich the understanding of our own traditions.

A pertinent statement of MHI:

"All cultures naturally influence each other to a greater or lesser degree; the strongest are those in which the dominant elements remain dominant and refuse to be overwhelmed by external forces. They become stronger still when they retain the ability to select, to absorb that which invigorates and enriches and to reject that which is inimicable." [MHI Speech 26 Sept. 1978]

The time frame for the composition of the Ginans was within the Kali Yuga and hence Naklanki Avtaar is mentioned as the Avtaar of Kali Yuga (the time of the composition of the Ginans). But according to cyclical theory we have past the Kaliyuga and are now in the ascending Duapur Yuga. The Ginans mention Farta Vela which is the turning period from Kali Yuga to Duapur Yuga.


Religion did not evolve out of cultures. The discussion is about calculation and not about cultures. Different countries and areas have different cultures. It is a vast subject including habits, human trends, traditions, rituals, attitudes, dress code, music, ethical values and so on. What Imam meant is to adopt and absorb good habits, attitudes to make life better.

Again I insist, we are still in kali yuga.

Four Yugas:

a. Satya Yuga has 4 charanas = 1,728,000 yrs.

b. Treta Yuga has 3 charanas= 1,296,000 yrs.

c. Dvapara Yuga has 2 charanas= 864,000 yrs.

d. Kali Yuga has 1 charanas = 432,000 yrs.

“Each “year” of the Yuga Cycle became a “divine year” comprised of 360 human years. The Yuga Cycle became inflated to 4,320,000 years (12,000*360) and the Kali Yuga became equal to 432,000 years (1,200*360)”.
Kali yuga started around 5000 years back, still it has to complete 427,000 years more.

EJI CHAAR LAAKH NE BATREES (432,000) HAJAAR
TE KALJUG NA PRAMAAN HUWA HO HARI
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 17637

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:
[
Religion did not evolve out of cultures. The discussion is about calculation and not about cultures. Different countries and areas have different cultures. It is a vast subject including habits, human trends, traditions, rituals, attitudes, dress code, music, ethical values and so on. What Imam meant is to adopt and absorb good habits, attitudes to make life better.

Again I insist, we are still in kali yuga.

Religions are embedded in the cultures from which they evolved. For example Ginans contain Hindu mythology. The concept of time is also part of cultures. Different cultures have adopted different time frames. The Yugas are very much part of Hindu culture and they find expression in the Ginans as well.

I have already explained the cyclical theory of time and why we are in the ascending Duapur, so I will not repeat again.

If you insist that we are in Kali Yuga, then we will agree to disagree.

There is an interesting article on the relationship between faith and cultures at:

https://www.aku.edu/news/pages/News_Details.aspx?nid=NEWS-001655
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