Franšais  |  Mission  |  About us  |  Disclaimer  |  Contact  |  What's new  |  FAQ  |  Search  | 

Welcome to The Heritage Web Site

-->
MY HERITAGE
New Heritage
Main Page
New Account
Set as Homepage
My Account
Logout
GOLDEN JUBILEE
Statistics
DIDARS
COMMUNICATE
Forums
Guestbook
Members List
Recommend Us
NEWS
Timelines
Ismaili History
Today in History
LEARN
Library
Youth's Corner
Ginans
FAIR
Gallery
Photo Album
Others


www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Jannat Puri
FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  ProfileProfile   
Login to check your private messagesLogin to check your private messages

Jannat Puri

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.ismaili.net Forum Index -> Ginans
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JANAT-PUREE (The City of Paradise) -

SAYYED IMAAM SHAAHejee peer emaam shaahaa ginaanaj boleaa,

ane boleaa te a(n)barat nur;

paa(n)tee ve(n)chee taare paase na hotaa, nahee(n) hotaa re hajur.1

Peer Imaam Shaah has uttered this hymn of knowledge, he has uttered immortal light. When the shares were distributed, he was not there, and he was not in his presence.

ejee sava(n)t pa(n)dharo so pee(n)chalotero,

ane kaaratak nu(n) maas;

taareek sataramee jomu seepaareo, peer hasan kabeer deen aap......2

It was the year VS 1575, and the month of Kartik, on the seventeenth day of the month that Peer Hassan Kabeerdeen departed this life.

ejee pirabhaat velaa jomu(n) seepaareo,

ane seepaareo u(n)chaj maa(n)e;

taare janaajo lahee gur no chaaleaa, ane chaaleaa chhe teeaa(n)e..3

It was at dawn that he died, and he died in Uch. Then they took the Guide's bier, and then they went with it.

peer emaam shaahaa kahe saa(n)bhaleene chaaleaa,

ane potaa te janaaje paas;

attakaavee janaajo em boleaa, am ne paa(n)tee na deedhee baap.....4

Peer Imaam Shah says that he went when he heard of this and himself came near the bier. He stopped the funeral procession and said: 'Father, you have not given me my share.'

taare bhaaeeo mileene veechaareo, ane veechaareo sarave so(n)saar;

je peer emaam shaahaa ghelaa thaeaa, te ha(n)saave lok apaar......5

Then his brothers together thought, and all the people thought that Peer Imam Shah had gone mad: and he made everyone laugh greatly.

ejee saat u(n)ch naa lok mileaa, ane mileaa te sarave so(n)saar;

te rumaal daeene ha(n)savaa laagaa, te ha(n)seaa anat apaar.......6

The folk of the seven Uches were gathered there, and all the people were assembled. Putting handerkerchiefs over their faces, they started laughing, and laughed without ceasing.

saa(n)bhalo emaam shaahaa bhaaeeo kahe, tam ne kaho te saacho kaaj;

pann aa velaa chhe kharach nee, tame paa(n)tee maa(n)go chho aaj..7

'Listen, Imam Shah.' his brothers said. 'What you say is true. But is this a time for going to expense, and are you asking for your share today?'

em karataa(n) savaa por din chaddeo, ane rokeaa tenne tthaam;

taare lok sarave bhukheaa thaeaa, teeaa(n) thaeo chhe evo kaam....8

While they went on like this, four hours of the day had passed, with them halted at that spot. Then all the people became hungry, as the same business went on.

taare peer emaam shaahaa araj kare, ane kareaa baap ne saath;

pitaa jee vila(n)b na keejee-e, ane lok kare chhe haas............9

Then Peer Imam Shah made a request, and made it to his father. 'Father, do not delay, for people are laughing.'

taare sa(n)duk maa(n)he thee sat-gurue,

ane kaaddheo pitaa nu(n) haath;

so(n)saar sarave dekhataa,

ek tasabee aalee emaam shaahaa ne haath.....10

Then from the coffin the True Guide stretched out his hand. As all the people watched, he handed Imam Shah a rosary.

valataa emaam shaahaa boleaa, ane mukhe su(n) evee vaann;

ek tasabee laee nav jaaesu(n),

pitaa jee kaa(n)eek beejo aalo piramaan......11

In reply, Imam Shah uttered these words: 'I will not take just a single rosary, father, give me something else.'

taare janaajo phaaddee mukh kaaddheo, ane joeo te sarve saath;

taare mukh maa(n)e thee saakar kaaddheaa,

te aalee peer emaam shaahaa ne haath......12

Then he burst open the bier and he put forth his face, watched by the whole company. Then from his mouth he took out a piece of sugar, and handed it to Peer Imam Shah.

taare lok sarave imaan laaveaa, ane laaveaa sarave jamaath;

have peer emaam shaahaa ne maanee-e, ane maanee-e pure imaan.....13

Then all the people were filled with faith, as was the entire community. 'Let us now acknowledge him with complete faith.'

teeaa(n) thee janaajo upaaddeeaa, laee chaaleaa aapanne thaan;

peer hasan kabeer deen ne dafanaaveaa, potaa te aapanne makaan...14

From there they raised the bier, and took it to its proper place. They buried Peer Hasan Kabeerdeen, then returned to their homes themselves.


In the Ginan Janat puri Syed Imam Shah has used word Pir many times for himself. This is producing confusion whether he was Pir or not? If not, why he used word Pir for himself in his Ginan.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5915

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

In the Ginan Janat puri Syed Imam Shah has used word Pir many times for himself. This is producing confusion whether he was Pir or not? If not, why he used word Pir for himself in his Ginan.


"Pir" can be used to mean Wise man, respectable person, Buzurg, like "Pir" Nassir Khusraw.

Mowlana Ali and "Mowlana" Rumi are not the same Mowlana. The Imam of a Masjid and the Imam of the Ismaili is not the same status. Many words have different menaing and misunderstanding have occurred because of this.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:

In the Ginan Janat puri Syed Imam Shah has used word Pir many times for himself. This is producing confusion whether he was Pir or not? If not, why he used word Pir for himself in his Ginan.


"Pir" can be used to mean Wise man, respectable person, Buzurg, like "Pir" Nassir Khusraw.

Mowlana Ali and "Mowlana" Rumi are not the same Mowlana. The Imam of a Masjid and the Imam of the Ismaili is not the same status. Many words have different menaing and misunderstanding have occurred because of this.



Good try wise man. There are hundreds of thousands fake pirs and imams showing their colors in Subcontinent, Middle East, and else where.
BUT my question is related to Satpunth Dharma and Piratan.
Piratan is an important institution second to Imamat and Imam of the time nominates the Pir. When Imam of the time did not bestowed upon him Piratan then he had no right to call him self or mention in his Ginans as Pir. He was not a teenager, he knew the Satputhi Dharma system well. In JANAT PUTRI Syed Imam Shah has high lighted him self Pir several times.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5915

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no fake "Pir". There are fake Ismailis yes but it all goes on ones definition of the word. Are you saying "Pir Nassir Khusraw" is a fake Pir? Certainely not. We can only say he is not "Pir" in the sense of "Satadhari Pir", those Pirs who gained title and status from the authority of the Imam. But he is "Pir" in the sense of Buzurg, Wise man etc...

So Sued Imam Shah was not "Satadhari Pir" but he certainly was Pir in the same way Nassir Khusraw was Pir.

So nice try. Now come back to your sense.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
There are no fake "Pir". There are fake Ismailis yes but it all goes on ones definition of the word. Are you saying "Pir Nassir Khusraw" is a fake Pir? Certainely not. We can only say he is not "Pir" in the sense of "Satadhari Pir", those Pirs who gained title and status from the authority of the Imam. But he is "Pir" in the sense of Buzurg, Wise man etc...

So Sued Imam Shah was not "Satadhari Pir" but he certainly was Pir in the same way Nassir Khusraw was Pir.

So nice try. Now come back to your sense.



Question is about Syed Imam Shah and Not Nasir Khusraw. Nasir has not claimed to be a Pir where as Syed Imam Shah did in writing, and proof lies in JANAT PURI.
Wise man I am in my senses I don't know about you. You have tendency of loosing mind under pressure or any thing goes against you.
Bapu, tension deney ka leney ka nahi.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
erumsuleman



Joined: 24 Dec 2014
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a person Shivathervedi is??? I do not understand his stance! His last post related something to Nur was Good, which unfortunately Admin deleted to maintain respect in the forum, which was need of the time!

I do not understand you. Where do you live?? In Pakistan or India?? Can we connect someday???

I think you do not have a know how of Ginans. Sorry to say that! But yeah, You are really weak at understanding ginans.

And who said that Nasir has not claimed himself Pir??? There are many manuscripts preserved in the northern areas of Pakistan which state this fact! I will start scanning those once I am done with the Khojki and Gujarati!!!!

Seriously, You lack at the critical understanding of the faith. Sorry!!!
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email
shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erumsuleman wrote:
What a person Shivathervedi is??? I do not understand his stance! His last post related something to Nur was Good, which unfortunately Admin deleted to maintain respect in the forum, which was need of the time!

I do not understand you. Where do you live?? In Pakistan or India?? Can we connect someday???

I think you do not have a know how of Ginans. Sorry to say that! But yeah, You are really weak at understanding ginans.

And who said that Nasir has not claimed himself Pir??? There are many manuscripts preserved in the northern areas of Pakistan which state this fact! I will start scanning those once I am done with the Khojki and Gujarati!!!!

Seriously, You lack at the critical understanding of the faith. Sorry!!!



Erum Bibi Aadaab;

With due respect, what ever I quoted or discussed is from Ismaili literature published by Ismail recreation club, Ismailia Associations, ITREB and IIS or pro or past Fatimid period. So far I have not used material printed or published by none Ismailis against Ismailis (I do not intend to post that). I am discussing the Ginan JANAT PURI of Syed Imam Shah and he was not a Pir.
Nasir Khusraw has not claimed as a Pir, Please give reference from his writings. He is called Hujjat e Khurasan. Satadari Pir is next to Imam and Piratan according to Satpunth is a universal institution. Nasir did not claimed to be universal Hujjat.
Bibi, I do not claim to be master of Ginans, but I have researched on Ginans. I know khojki well, beside Gujrati and Hindi/Urdu. I do respect Pirs and Ginans. Problem created when collectors and compilers of Ginans made blunders. They knew not Arabic, Persian and other wordings of different languages used in Ginans. In excitement without research they published hurriedly what Ginans they found. They did not quoted dates, years or sequence of Ginans, which Ginan comes after which. There are hundreds of obsolete words and phrases which are not in use today.

You questioned my faith, I believe in Hazar Imam and believe in current guidance. I act and follow our Du'a. My message has been, learn meaning of Du'a and understand PREAMBLE of our constitution that will solve many problems which today's YOUTH is asking.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad:
I wish to know from members if the hymn/ginan Janat Puree.
is this ginan and its writer/composer an approved ginan (or filtered out) ?, is this ginan recited on regular basis in JK currently (not 70 years back)?.
Word Pir is very common is south Asia, general meaning can be a wise guide/preacher.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
Ya Ali Madad:
I wish to know from members if the hymn/ginan Banat Puree.
is this ginan and its writer/composer an approved ginan (or filtered out) ?, is this ginan recited on regular basis in JK currently (not 70 years back)?.
Word Pir is very common is south Asia, general meaning can be a wise guide/preacher.


Let me answer you as no one is involving with you.
Yes JANAT PURI is an approved Ginan available in Ginan books printed by Association/ITREB. This particular Ginan is also available on Heritage site in Ginan section.
The discussion was about Satadhari Pir and not in general terms
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Admin: Ya Ali Madad.
Why my post made few hours back deleted ? I take side only with truth and not passion,personalities or sentiments.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5915

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read the Rules of Posting. I am tired of repeating all the time the same thing. If you do not respect the rules of postings your posts will be deleted. Iti s your responsibility to remain polite and not to indulge in personnel insults
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.ismaili.net Forum Index -> Ginans All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.1 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group




Fatal error: Call to a member function Execute() on a non-object in /home/heritage/web/webdocs/html/includes/pnSession.php on line 400